Church IT having trouble with legacy emails like Yahoo and AOL?

38 postsstarted by kristaanncook 51,642 viewsoriginal topic

New Member
#1
I just discovered this article: http://www.thisweekinmormons.com/2022/0 ... he-church/

Members with Yahoo! and AOL Accounts Might Not Get Emails from the Church
"Some holders of email accounts from notable (and formerly ubiquitous) web services providers Yahoo! and AOL may not receive any sort of email communication from Church accounts, including official messaging and marketing from Salt Lake City, emails from area representatives, and even any message sent by local leaders over Leader and Clerk Resources (LCR), the main gateway local leaders use to carry out administrative work."
Can anyone confirm this? If it is accurate, is there any word on whether it can or will be fixed?

As Ward Technology Specialist, I need to alert my leaders to all this. Yesterday, we went through a massive boundary realignment in the stake and leaders need email to communicate with anybody right now. They need to know what they can do and when they can do it.

Any thoughts or guidance from anyone?
Community Administrator
#2
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Community Moderators
#3
My communication through the Global Services Department indicates the issue is known; is being worked; has high priority; is in negotiation with the email providers; requires the church as an email sender to meet grading/rating criteria for which they have dropped below the threshold for; and the timeline is unknown since the church does not control the process to improve their grading/rating.
JD Lessley
Have you tried finding your answer on the ChurchofJesusChrist.org Help Center or Tech Wiki?
New Member
#4
Basically, Good luck!!!

I identified this problem at least 4 months ago, and it seems to be spreading wider. Originally it was only AOL.COM and the extensions serviced by AOL .... yahoo.com and verizon.net to name two.

My postings to LCR feedback have been ignored, or at least unanswered. Four months seems a little long if the problem is being taken seriously, and it is getting worse.

As an EQ Secretary I have combed all the e-mail addresses in the Ward we have on file, send "test" messages through LCR requesting a reply a representative extensions, and confirming the AOL and affiliates suspicion. I have also extracted a separate list of addresses I know are affected and sending all LCR messages also to my wife (gmail) who forwards to me, and I re-forward to my scratch list from my personal e-mail account - which is a verizon.net address (AOL having be bought by verizon, and verizon transferring its e-mail responsibilities to AOL).

Gmail.com seems to work fine, as does msn.com, erols.com, rcn.com, and some other smaller variants ... apparently all subject to change -- since it seems the root problem is not understood.

Regardless, the lack of concern and communication on the "break" is astounding. Our Stake still uses e-mail for most Stake business (Releases, Sustaining, being notable), which then excludes about 25% of our Ward from that communication (all of which are "active" members). So we are relying on a tool that is broken, and has been for some time.

If getting a new e-mail address was less "messy" I would get a gmail.com account (which works with LCR at the moment) -- and maybe that is the simplest solution for me ... however the Church seems to have rapidly pushed technology past many of its more senior members, especially widows, who are struggling with basis e-mail -- not to mention -- signupgenius, justserve, LDS.Tools (which is never up to date even with automatic updates "on"), google.doc, and every other tool which is the favorite of one of our leaders at a point in time.

I am committed to serve, and will do my best with what is presented -- but a little communication from "above" would help in understand a problem and a timeline to resolution.
Community Moderators
#5
The post immediately before yours actually does a pretty good job of explaining the problem, albeit in technical terms some may not understand. It also provides the reason there is no timeline for resolution.

In terms I would understand, the "grading/rating criteria" simply means the minimum standard at which an email will be forwarded by the receiving ISP to the recipient.
Senior Member
#6
My two cents: As long as disaffected members report these email messages as spam to their email system providers, it is likely that such email messages will continue to be sent to the bit bucket. The perception of the recipient is all that matters.
Dana Repouille, Plattsmouth, Nebraska
Senior Member
#7
drepouille wrote: Thu Sep 15, 2022 6:25 am My two cents: As long as disaffected members report these email messages as spam to their email system providers, it is likely that such email messages will continue to be sent to the bit bucket. The perception of the recipient is all that matters.
It isn't just disaffected members. My daughter recently complained to us that she receives at least 3 emails per week from her stake (not to mention what comes from her ward) and she feels that is too much. Since the church doesn't have an opt-out option and (in my experience) church leaders are reluctant to unselect individual members before hitting send, I imagine many find their only course of action to reduce the flood of chatter to their in-box is to mark the messages as spam.
Senior Member
#8
davesudweeks wrote: Thu Sep 15, 2022 11:39 am
drepouille wrote: Thu Sep 15, 2022 6:25 am My two cents: As long as disaffected members report these email messages as spam to their email system providers, it is likely that such email messages will continue to be sent to the bit bucket. The perception of the recipient is all that matters.
It isn't just disaffected members. My daughter recently complained to us that she receives at least 3 emails per week from her stake (not to mention what comes from her ward) and she feels that is too much. Since the church doesn't have an opt-out option and (in my experience) church leaders are reluctant to unselect individual members before hitting send, I imagine many find their only course of action to reduce the flood of chatter to their in-box is to mark the messages as spam.
I get 3 or more emails from church headquarters most weeks, between regular church things and family search.

There are plenty of options available besides marking legitimate emails as spam:
Contact the sender and ask to receive less emails.
Either change or remove your email address from your membership profile or ask the ward clerk to do so.
Set up a separate email just for the Church and put that email address in your profile.
I am sure tech savvy folks can think of others.
Senior Member
#9
Back in the day of LUWS, I always received bounceback messages from invalid email addresses whenever I sent out a stake broadcast message. One active sister had changed her email address to something like me@none.com, so nothing I sent out was ever delivered to her. When I asked her about it, she said she was far too busy to bother with all those church emails.

I find the Gospel Living circle messages to be even more annoying, since they make my phone PING most often after I go to bed.
Dana Repouille, Plattsmouth, Nebraska
Community Administrator
#10
garystroble wrote: Thu Sep 15, 2022 12:39 pm There are plenty of options available besides marking legitimate emails as spam:
True, but the generally accepted way for dealing with this - to unsubscribe from local leaders' email, or even specific senders - is not available.

One thing that could help is if leaders go though the list of emails and remove all the ones that are no longer valid. As far as I know, the church has no process for removing emails that are rejected as invalid. To keep sending to those addresses lowers the church's ratings as a sender. Normally I don't advocate for removing emails, but if the email is known to be wrong, it should be removed - especially if it goes to one of the problematic domains. ("me@none.com" isn't likely to be an issue, but "me@yahoo.com" would be.)

Another thing the leaders could do is try to limit the number of emails. Lately, my ward has been sending a single weekly email of all the upcoming events. That seems like a good practice - it's frequent enough without turning into a regular flood.
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Senior Member
#11
As with the LCR Finance notice the Church (finally) put up, until there is some sort of "official" guidance from above, everyone's frustrations will continue to be combined with general confusion and a sense that the Church isn't prioritizing the issue. While some members/leaders are clued into the Tech forum (or other discussions like in the O.P.), many or even most leaders aren't really aware of the ongoing issues. My personal thought is it would be ideal for the Church to either turn off the functionality until it's working as intended, or provide "official" workarounds based off of what the actual Church IT department knows is going on (and not just our limited guesses based on personal communications or experience).

I'm grateful there's this landing place, otherwise there really wouldn't be any way for regular members/leaders to understand the scope of what they are locally experiencing, and to get some hope that the Church is actually trying hard to resolve the problem.
Member
#12
There is now a notice on the "Send a Message" page
The Church’s email delivery via “Send a Message” in Leader and Clerk Resources has been problematic for the past several weeks. Some email providers are currently blocking email traffic from Church servers.

Church engineers are actively working on the problem both internally, with external vendors and email providers. There appears to be no “quick fix” for the issue and may continue for some time. For the best probability of not being blocked, we recommend:

Email messages sent via “Send a Message” be sent during the week instead of near peak hours of Saturday and Sunday.
Members verify that the email addresses on their Church account are correct.
Thank you for your patience as we work through email delivery problems.
They say several weeks, rather than many months, but at least there's a notice now.
Community Moderators
#13
garystroble wrote: Thu Sep 15, 2022 12:39 pm There are plenty of options available besides marking legitimate emails as spam:
Contact the sender and ask to receive less emails.
Either change or remove your email address from your membership profile or ask the ward clerk to do so.
Set up a separate email just for the Church and put that email address in your profile.
I am sure tech savvy folks can think of others.
Most email clients will let you setup folders and automatically file certain email into a specific folder. That way they can look at them, or not, but it shouldn't impact their normal flow of email.
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New Member
#14
The individuals I have talked to are not able to find the church messages in any folder. I know gmail starts blocking (which means the church would get a bounce) if enough people mark it as spam. I am not sure how to find the yahoo account that would have marked it as spam without the church's SMTP server logs showing why it bounced.
New Member
#15
Just a quick question - Our Stake Executive Secretary sends out messages via LCR Messenger to our High Council Organization and I am not receiving the emails at my @yahoo.com email address. Based on what I’ve read here, it sounds like I need to change my email to another account?
Community Administrator
#16
draked12 wrote: Sun Oct 23, 2022 10:32 pm Based on what I’ve read here, it sounds like I need to change my email to another account?
That's the fastest "fix" that's under your control.
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Community Moderators
#17
draked12 wrote: Sun Oct 23, 2022 10:32 pm Based on what I’ve read here, it sounds like I need to change my email to another account?
Or you might let your executive secretary know that you do not receive his messages through LCR, and that if he wishes for you to get them he will need to resend them individually to you after he sends them through LCR.

I am a little torn on the subject. On the one hand, I have email for my convenience, not the convenience of the Church. On the other hand, I wish to receive communication from my leaders. That said, I have a valid email address and have no desire to change it at the moment.
Church Employee
#18
lajackson wrote: Mon Oct 24, 2022 11:53 am
draked12 wrote: Sun Oct 23, 2022 10:32 pm Based on what I’ve read here, it sounds like I need to change my email to another account?
Or you might let your executive secretary know that you do not receive his messages through LCR, and that if he wishes for you to get them he will need to resend them individually to you after he sends them through LCR.

I am a little torn on the subject. On the one hand, I have email for my convenience, not the convenience of the Church. On the other hand, I wish to receive communication from my leaders. That said, I have a valid email address and have no desire to change it at the moment.
You could create an account at another provider and have it forwarded to your main email account that way you don't have to change what you are used to and you should be able to get those messages (I haven't tested this to see if they still get blocked by the providers)
Community Administrator
#19
jonesrk wrote: Mon Oct 24, 2022 7:07 pm You could create an account at another provider and have it forwarded to your main email account that way you don't have to change what you are used to and you should be able to get those messages (I haven't tested this to see if they still get blocked by the providers)
Based on what others have posted, it's likely to fail. I'm not sure why since I'd think the message would be "from" the forwarder.
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New Member
#20

Not receiving emails

We have a problem in our ward where a member of the Ward Council does not get emails sent through the church site (including ones she sends). Would be interested to know more if this gets resolved.
Community Administrator
#21

Re: Not receiving emails

lkrsfn wrote: Wed Oct 26, 2022 7:14 am We have a problem in our ward where a member of the Ward Council does not get emails sent through the church site (including ones she sends). Would be interested to know more if this gets resolved.
I've merged your post into a more appropriate thread. There is a known problem with sending to Yahoo and Aol.
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New Member
#22
This issue has been going on for almost a year now. Anyone have any updates? It's too hard to keep my email distribution lists updated as members move in/out of the ward.
New Member
#23
I'd like to hear updates on this too. Has this been solved? I need to know what to advise my church leaders on this.

I did notice that instructions to unsubscribe or address email preferences are at the bottom of emails now.
Senior Member
#24
Any updates?
I do not believe there have been any satisfactory updates on this issue, from what I'm aware of in the various threads in the Forum covering this topic (see this post for references to a few of them). One of the threads has a Nov '22 post from "the product manager for the Church's email infrastructure", stating the intent to go live in Dec with a new solution that would solve everything. I'm not sure what that final solution actually entails, perhaps a portion of that solution is the unsubscribe option now available. But it's Sep '23 and there's no official (or unofficial) news about this solution.

My suggestion is to take the oft-repeated mantra seriously, that Church IT solutions should not be counted on to be delivered in any timeframe, even if (as the PM stated in his post) a delivery date is specified. While I'm certain there's a lot of spinning wheels and activity inside Church IT related to this, don't expect all members or leaders to reliably receive emails from the Church system anytime soon. Manual email lists and distribution are a pain, but will be much more reliable for the foreseeable future.
#25
kristaanncook wrote: Thu Sep 07, 2023 7:39 am I'd like to hear updates on this too. Has this been solved? I need to know what to advise my church leaders on this.

I did notice that instructions to unsubscribe or address email preferences are at the bottom of emails now.
I know that at least Yahoo emails still aren't working. I'm the stake executive secretary and email our high councilors regularly. We have one that refuses to change his Yahoo email account, and he still isn't getting my email messages as of just a few days ago.
New Member
#26
BrianEdwards wrote: Thu Sep 07, 2023 8:48 am Manual email lists and distribution are a pain, but will be much more reliable for the foreseeable future.
Thanks for the update. While not a great solution, this will have to do. I keep hoping it will get fixed, so I send my weekly ward broadcast through the Church's system, but I always send a follow up message to my list of Yahoo, MSN, Hotmail, AOL, etc. email addresses. I was anxiously waiting for the day when a member told me they received my email twice. At this point, I think I'll give up and just start sending my own distribution list.
Community Administrator
#27
hmonglish wrote: Sat Sep 09, 2023 11:21 pm At this point, I think I'll give up and just start sending my own distribution list.
You may discover that sending bulk email is a lot harder than it seems. There's a possibility that your ISP may decide you're a spammer and kill your account.
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Senior Member
#28
russellhltn wrote: Sun Sep 10, 2023 12:07 am
hmonglish wrote: Sat Sep 09, 2023 11:21 pm At this point, I think I'll give up and just start sending my own distribution list.
You may discover that sending bulk email is a lot harder than it seems. There's a possibility that your ISP may decide you're a spammer and kill your account.
It's also possible that a couple hundred email addresses is not considered bulk email by an ISP.
New Member
#29
When I first became a Ward Website Administrator in 2007, other administrators were being labeled as Spammers because the emails were sent out using the ISP of the administrator sending them out to the members. This caused intense problems and their ISP’s were threatening them, I know.

Later, the Church set things up so that the emails came directly from the Church.

I would never send out anything from my own distribution list because it is fraught with legal problems. If people’s names and emails are on the Church’s system, they have agreed to receive emails from the Church. They have NOT agreed to receive church emails from individuals. You are violating the law if you do so and the SPAM laws are very strict – any unwanted email is SPAM.

If you use the Church’s email system properly, you avoid legal problems. Anything else and you risk being sued.

From what I can gather, these reasons explain the current problem.

· Church units send out a lot of bulk emails which look a lot like SPAM to email providers.
· Church units send out a lot of bulk emails at the same times – Fridays and Saturdays.
· Many of the emails local units send out to are dead, inactive or bad.
· Many of the emails local units send out are bouncing back to the Church as undeliverable.
· People are marking many of the emails they receive from the Church as SPAM and/or unwanted.

The Church has been labeled a Spammer and these email providers are refusing to deliver emails from the Church.

The question is what can be done, especially when the Church cannot completely control how it is viewed by email providers.

I’m told that a notice is now on the Send-an-email feature on the LCR suggesting that emails go out on weekdays and not wholly on Fridays and Saturdays. This can help future problems from developing with even more email providers. If it develops with Gmail, for example, I think we’re sunk.

Along with this notice, there is a change in the emails themselves. In the lower left-hand corner, there is now a link to “Email Preferences” and “Unsubscribe.” These had been absent in the past, or even erratic. The Church has changed these email signature items over the years. Being able to change preferences and unsubscribe is now much more transparent.

On the local level, much more consideration, caution, and intention needs to happen before emails are sent out to ward members. Sending out every imaginable issue to every imaginable member in bulk is not wise. This past practice needs to be rethought.

Text messaging is not the answer.

Consider that the Church does have the capability to text message. For example, I receive a text message containing a passcode in the two-factor authentication procedure when I sign onto my Church account.

Myself and others have been hoping/waiting for the Church to follow suit with bulk text messaging. The Church will not be offering bulk text messaging ever.

After querying the Church via the floating Feedback button on the Church’s website, I was informed:
We have considered this, but texting is much more expensive than sending emails. Texting also gets really complicated internationally with all the cell phone carriers. We have a parallel project looking into using WhatsApp or other direct messaging tools for this use case.
Some units are compensating by using Twilio or Remind. However, there is a substantial limitation with doing this: You have to have people’s express permission to put their personal information/phone numbers on these systems otherwise you are violating the law and these companies’ terms of use. This goes for any service like this.

This is basically an unsurmountable problem for bulk ward emails although it might work for select groups within it. However, people in various callings have their own text messaging groups and already text messages each other all the time. The groups are small enough to not cause problems.

I’ve also discovered that most carriers will not deliver more than 10 bulk text messages at a time. They cut it off after that number. Twilio and Remind get around this somehow by staggering delivery or something else, I’m not really certain.

I looked into whether text messaging via email would work, but I suspect the 10-text message limit would be a barrier with that as well.

Bulk text messaging is not going to happen in the Church and I don’t think it is a viable option for wards either.

So, what can be done?

Remember, the Church’s tools are set up so that they are consistent with all privacy and other laws. When you use them, you can be certain you are not running afoul of any laws, as long as you use them correctly. So, if you use the Send an Email and other features, you are SAFE. I wouldn’t use anything else.

We can help members get a viable email on the system along with correct personal information and assist them in managing their email and other preferences and settings.

I had an interchange with a new sister in the ward, I told her I was the Ward Technology Specialist and asked her if her contact information in the Ward Directory was correct. She told me she thought it was. I texted, then emailed her during the week with a few questions, like whether she was getting the weekly bulletin emails from our Executive Secretary. She didn’t respond.

The next Sunday, I asked her if she had received my email or text. She couldn’t recall it and looked for it in my presence. She told me she had over 6,000 emails on her phone. She even showed me where her phone told her this. Sure enough, it was 6,000.

I was dismayed, I thought, “Even if people’s contact information is correct and they do receive emails from the Church, the emails are likely to get lost in a sea of dozens, hundreds, or even thousands of emails. What can be done? This is seemingly hopeless.”

Then, I got an epiphany. It occurred to me that perhaps we ought to follow the Church’s example.

· It has established a website and expects us to access it.
· It posts news on the site and expects us to access it.
· It places official letters from Church leaders on the site and expects us to access them.
· It puts the Handbook online and expects us to access it.
· It puts lesson manuals and other guidance online and expects us to access them.
· It puts just about everything online and expects us to access it.

I see a theme here.

Perhaps the ward and stakes simply need to fully utilize the Calendar properly (with explicit details instead of cryptic references and abbreviations/acronyms) and put everything there and depend on members to access it.

We’re still in the “old” mode that we need to get information and materials into the hands of members like we did under the paper system. Maybe we should just get it online so they can access it. Then, we wouldn’t have to send out many emails and we wouldn’t have to be concerned if their email provider would block it. Also, if people consciously access the information we put online it won’t matter if they have thousands of unread emails on their personal devices.

Nearly all the information members need can be placed on the Calendar and members can access it there.
New Member
#30
Great post. Lots of well thought out information. I've been an advocate of using the calendar properly for years; however, ingraining a culture of accessing that calendar has been very difficult to do. Part of the problem is that a lot of people would try to access it through the app on their phone which would never update properly so the information was too often not reliable. That combined with the vague and incomplete information provided made it ineffective as a sole solution. It would be great if we could get members churchwide to use this as an effective resource. Some video tutorials showing people how to sync the calendar with their regular calendar would be helpful as well.
Member
#31
hmonglish wrote: Sat Aug 26, 2023 9:36 pm This issue has been going on for almost a year now. Anyone have any updates?
It has not been solved. It continues to persist, however, I don't believe the problem is what many think it is.

viewtopic.php?t=45138

I believe there is a lot of misinformation being spread about the root cause of this problem. In essence, the Church is using Amazon SES to send out emails from mail.churchofjesuschrist.org. Amazon SES has an email address suppression technology that the Church must be using to filter out what it considers to be "bad" email addresses. I don't believe that AOL, Yahoo, Gmail, Hotmail, or any of the other scapegoats are necessarily at fault, however, I won't deny that sometimes they do unwise things with respect to email, but I think we do members a disservice to lay all the blame on their ISP for this problem. It's actually more complicated than that---communication problems are a 2-way situation. The number of reasons why a message could be rejected by an ISP are varied and do not all necessarily represent a permanent condition, nor do they represent an indication that the sender is being blocked, however, it appears that the Church's suppression list is treating any failure as a permanent condition---despite the fact that the email address is working and legitimate---and once your email address ends up on the blacklist, it is currently impossible to have the Church remove that address.

You can change your email address and it will continue to work up until it ends up on the Church's blacklist again.

I don't know why it is so difficult to have this addressed from Church email administrators. Is there an unwritten policy somewhere regarding blacklisting email addresses of members? What does the handbook say?

You could try contacting Global Services Department and reqeust that they remove the block on your email address.

God Bless
Member
#32
dkarbuckle wrote: Fri Sep 08, 2023 12:45 pm I know that at least Yahoo emails still aren't working.
Let's be clear on what is being asserted here. It is in fact not ALL Yahoo emails that are not working, but just those few who happen to get trapped in the Church's Amazon SES suppression list:

viewtopic.php?t=45138
We have one that refuses to change his Yahoo email account
And why should he? It works everywhere else, I'm sure. The problem is not with his email address, it's with the LCR system's handling of his email address.
Senior Member
#33
ambldsorg wrote: Mon Feb 24, 2025 9:04 amI don't know why it is so difficult to have this addressed from Church email administrators. Is there an unwritten policy somewhere regarding blacklisting email addresses of members? What does the handbook say?
It indeed is frustrating. And interesting that a lot of really smart Forum users have asserted fairly different conclusions about what the root problem is, often at odds with each other's conclusions. Without any official guidance, we're just left to wonder who of all these parties is right, or are they all wrong together, and if any one of them be right, which is it, and how shall I know it? ;)

I do appreciate in-depth Forum discussion and analysis. But I'm always hopeful that when there's no foreseeable resolution, that it doesn't lead anyone beyond normal frustration and dissatisfaction. Since this topic has been one of the most active over many years here in the Forum, and there hasn't been any actionable response from the Church, it seems like something we are just forced to (unhappily, yes) live with for the foreseeable future.
Member
#34
BrianEdwards wrote: Mon Feb 24, 2025 9:22 am And interesting that a lot of really smart Forum users have asserted fairly different conclusions about what the root problem is, often at odds with each other's conclusions.
As I said it's a fairly complicated issue and moreso to discuss with people who are not as well-versed in SMTP and email issues in general, so you are right to question any particular "interpretation" of the facts. You can look at the facts and come up with your own hypothesis.

1) Take a look at the full email headers that you get in a message from your Ward or Stake. You'll see something like:

Code:

Return-Path: <010001845bd2c0b1-08d78184-8485-4cc3-c61b-8bc835b38c23-000000@amazonses.com>
If you don't see such a header then your email system must not be providing that. This header suggests that the LCR "Send a Message" tool is using Amazon SES to deliver emails.

2) Then consider that Amazon SES has what it calls an "account-level supression list":

https://docs.aws.amazon.com/ses/latest/ ... -list.html

It's not such a stretch of reason to determine that if one's email address works for everything except receiving Ward and Stake communications, that one's email address has been blacklisted in this fashion.

God Bless
Member
#35
kristaanncook wrote: Fri Sep 22, 2023 3:35 pm This caused intense problems and their ISP’s were threatening them, I know.
It's a pretty sad state of affairs for the world of email communication when everyone and their dog is so intent on blocking legitimate communications.
The Church has been labeled a Spammer and these email providers are refusing to deliver emails from the Church.
Well, that's an interesting claim because just the other day when I called GSC to report an email deliverability problem, they recommended that I switch to using a Gmail email address because it's the most "compatible" and yet, it's also the most likely offender in the "block all the emails quest".
The question is what can be done, especially when the Church cannot completely control how it is viewed by email providers.
I think education is one way to deal with this, rather than working in darkness. LCR should provide real and accurate email deliverability reports, not a generic statement that the message was "rejected by the server". With an actual deliverability report, the member who is having trouble receiving emails can take such information to their ISP and ask them to resolve or explain why. Yes, I know this might be futile when discussing big providers like Gmail, but accurate information is always better than obscured and useless generic errors. The other half of the problem is that once the ISP has disavowed any claim that they are blocking the message, the Church needs to be approachable and make it possible to have the member's email address removed from the suppression list:

viewtopic.php?t=45138

Regarding using other technologies, e.g. Texting, WhatsApp, or whatever; unfortunately none of them are as ubiquitous as email.
Perhaps the ward and stakes simply need to fully utilize the Calendar properly (with explicit details instead of cryptic references and abbreviations/acronyms) and put everything there and depend on members to access it.
That's not a bad idea and could be augmented by the use of RSS, though, to be fair I have a hard time recommending something I don't use myself. Again, this is less useful as it is not as ubiquitous as email.

Like it or not, email is going to be very difficult to supplant. People who use free email providers like Gmail, Hotmail, Yahoo, etc. need to be willing to hold their providers accountable for the interruptions in communication that they cause when they block legitimate emails. But the Church can improve things in this regard by providing accurate information. Until this happens, the situation isn't going to improve much. For those who insist on using free email providers, I recommend ProtonMail (at least until I find a reason to stop recommending them).

God Bless
Member
#36
ambldsorg wrote: Mon Feb 24, 2025 9:08 am It is in fact not ALL Yahoo emails that are not working, but just those few who happen to get trapped in the Church's Amazon SES suppression list:
Correction on my part: I suppose it's entirely possible that at the time Yahoo may have been blocking all communications coming from mail.churchofjesuschrist.org (via Amazon SES), even though the most likely cause of member trouble is the suppression list.

I didn't mean to minimize the actual problems at hand but merely tried to point out that the most likely cause of any trouble is the Amazon SES suppression list. Yes, ISPs can and do reject emails for any number of reasons. Not all rejected emails indicate that delivery to the recipient should be prevented forever, however, if delivery to a given email address persists then it is reasonable to cease delivering email to said address until a human intervenes. There currently is no way for a human to intervene and have the email address "cleared of all wrongdoing."

In other threads I have suggested that Account settings could have an option to "reconnect" (to use Church employee terms) , or "revalidate" the email address, which action would allow a human to intervene.
New Member
#37
I queried the Church about this problem, using the floating feedback tab. This is what I got:
It should be resolved as of now. But it can be an issue. Most ISP’s rely on a few organizations that blacklist domains that they see as spam. This can be an issue with many different issues, but the Church has worked to comply with the organizations that they know about that can give block lists to ISP’s. But for now it should be resolved as far as I know.

This is not part of my job, I have just heard the discussions in the past.
Member
#38
kristaanncook wrote: Mon Feb 24, 2025 11:31 am This is what I got:
Most ISP’s rely on a few organizations that blacklist domains that they see as spam.
Thanks for sharing. If I had to guess, the "few organizations" to which it refers are most likely those "organizations" that provide RBL (real-time blackhole lists), or perhaps email reputation services. Most of them are terribly managed and often blacklist legitimate and non-spam sources of email. I no longer recommend using most of the RBLs that are out there.

One thing that I should point out... the Church is no longer delivering its own email in many cases, having delegated that to Amazon SES (or in some cases Marketo/Adobe or Microsoft), so the RBL situation isn't really relevant because RBLs are unlikely to blacklist Amazon SES. That's precisely why organizations flock to such services. But the downside is that they have to invent other mechanisms to deal with senders that appear to send "spam", ergo the Amazon SES suppression list. Amazon SES doesn't want its reputation damaged because one of their customers is sending out "spam" email, so they place restrictions on their customers (like the Church). It's definitely a challenging problem.