Compiling LCR Feedback and Bugs

So I know there's a link to send feedback in LCR and I also have been told no one who can really make a difference reads this forum, but I'm hoping maybe we can compile LCR feedback and submit it and make a difference. Other than LCR being problematic on Sundays when we need it most, I'm pretty happy with LCR but there are some bugs and there are some improvements I'd like to see. I'll start with this-

Bugs:
Finding Lost Members report does not display in Feature Access by Calling
"Upload Consent Form" hyperlink on the Member Information Page is redundant. Even if you upload a consent form first and then enter in the baptism info the system forces you to upload another consent form. Either remove the hyperlink from the Member information Page or have it accept the upload from there and not force another upload.

Improvements:
Allow customization of tile layout on the LCR dashboard
Allow customization of the "Resources" tile to allow personal links (e.g. I use a lot of Google Docs and Sheets that I'd love to access on the church computer without having to sign in and out on constantly because it's a shared computer)
Create a customizable "To-do" and/or "Notes" tile for the LCR dashboard that can be edited and saves server-side
Create a customizable "Coordination" tile that is shared between specific callings based on your calling. E.g. The bishopric members (plus clerks and executive secretary) would have a tile that they all share and can update (server-side). Same for the auxiliary presidencies
Create text boxes to add personal notes to members that are viewable at specified levels. E.g. one text box would only be viewable by the bishopric members + ward clerk, one text box viewable by the ward council members
When you "Send a Message" in LCR, provide all of the email addresses that the message went to in the Message Confirmation email that is generated. Email addresses are only included if you send to ward leaders and check the "Allow recipients to 'reply to all'" check box
Allow the system to account for someone having a self-reliance form instead of popping up a warning every time you enter some type fast offering reimbursement payment in their name (add it as a check box to the "Adult Member Self-Reliance report")

tonynocchi wrote: Thu Dec 26, 2024 9:15 pm but I'm hoping maybe we can compile LCR feedback and submit it and make a difference.

How are you planning on doing that - by what means? Who are you going to submit the compiled feedback to? There is no feedback mechanism in place for such a task. The feedback links and the leadership access to submit trouble tickets through the Contact Us menu item in the LCR Help menu are the only electronic means to get feedback to the responsible people. Sending feedback up through the priesthood chain is the only other means. If the Global Services Department (GSD) help line is used to call in such a list they will only work with you to work out problems you specifically are having. They will direct you to the feedback link for programming issues or feedback recommendations.

While your list can be discussed in the forum, it must be done one item or issue per topic thread - not all together in one thread. This is covered in the Code of Conduct. It states; "We encourage the following behavior: Stay on topic; keep the content of the site clear and concise." Discussing all the items you have posted in one thread creates a problem in following what is being discussed and can get out of hand and cause confusion. Most of the items you have listed are already being discussed appropriately in individual topic threads. Combining those discussions here is not permitted by the Code Conduct ("Do not post the same material in multiple threads.").

And a few points that help me when I sometimes get frustrated that something doesn't work the way "I" want:
1. Remembering that "I" am not the customer of the developers. Their customers are the sponsoring departments (at the church) of the software and apps. Providing feedback through the proper means gets that feedback to "those" sponsoring departments who direct the developer's tasks.
2. It is possible that there are fixes in process for some of these issues but the church normally does not publish the upgrade path nor the timeline of what they are working on. I don't know what is already on the developer's plates and what their priorities are.
3. The developers are regular members like me and probably deal with these same issues like I do - but they are not at liberty to pick what they work on.
4. I don't know what other factors are at play - for example the complexity of the myriad of laws the church must comply to with an app that goes worldwide, especially since some of the apps can contain financial, private, and children information.

Once official feedback/bug reports have been submitted, the best thing I can do is be patient and Christlike while I try to use workarounds the best that I can. Personally, I don't use some of the features available because I have seen problems with them reported on this forum.

jdlessley wrote: Thu Dec 26, 2024 11:41 pm

tonynocchi wrote: Thu Dec 26, 2024 9:15 pm but I'm hoping maybe we can compile LCR feedback and submit it and make a difference.

How are you planning on doing that - by what means? Who are you going to submit the compiled feedback to? There is no feedback mechanism in place for such a task. The feedback links and the leadership access to submit trouble tickets through the Contact Us menu item in the LCR Help menu are the only electronic means to get feedback to the responsible people. Sending feedback up through the priesthood chain is the only other means. If the Global Services Department (GSD) help line is used to call in such a list they will only work with you to work out problems you specifically are having. They will direct you to the feedback link for programming issues or feedback recommendations.

While your list can be discussed in the forum, it must be done one item or issue per topic thread - not all together in one thread. This is covered in the Code of Conduct. It states; "We encourage the following behavior: Stay on topic; keep the content of the site clear and concise." Discussing all the items you have posted in one thread creates a problem in following what is being discussed and can get out of hand and cause confusion. Most of the items you have listed are already being discussed appropriately in individual topic threads. Combining those discussions here is not permitted by the Code Conduct ("Do not post the same material in multiple threads.").

Because stuff is spread all over the place and it's a pain to track it down. I'm going to be honest, this forum is more frustrating than it is good. I guess trying to make a difference in the lives of people who are working 40-60 hours a week and trying to manage family life while having demanding church callings is just to ambitious of me because the bureaucracy is crushing and non-responsive.

tonynocchi wrote: Fri Dec 27, 2024 11:44 amBecause stuff is spread all over the place and it's a pain to track it down. I'm going to be honest, this forum is more frustrating than it is good. I guess trying to make a difference in the lives of people who are working 40-60 hours a week and trying to manage family life while having demanding church callings is just to ambitious of me because the bureaucracy is crushing and non-responsive.

If this Forum is viewed as a place to advocate for change, then I agree frustration will be a likely result. And many times, simply using Church tools can also result in frustration.

My perspective is that we only have an outsiders-view into how the Church development team operates. The Church has provided a specific method for submitting Feedback, and also has enabled this user Forum as a place for member-to-member self-help and discussion. We are told that the amount of Church IT resources allocated to these type of LCR issues is limited, and others have said that these same Church resources are also tasked with many other non-LCR responsibilities that may take priority.

I think most of us have gone through the same five stages of grief regarding how Church tools impact our ability to fulfill our callings (and I've gone through those stages multiple times when bumping up against different Church tool limitations) We all try and do the best we can, even when what the Church provides may feel like more of a burden than a blessing. It's good you continue to share your voice here, having a vibrant user community definitely benefits us all.

davesudweeks wrote: Fri Dec 27, 2024 9:32 am And a few points that help me when I sometimes get frustrated that something doesn't work the way "I" want:
1. Remembering that "I" am not the customer of the developers. Their customers are the sponsoring departments (at the church) of the software and apps. Providing feedback through the proper means gets that feedback to "those" sponsoring departments who direct the developer's tasks.
2. It is possible that there are fixes in process for some of these issues but the church normally does not publish the upgrade path nor the timeline of what they are working on. I don't know what is already on the developer's plates and what their priorities are.
3. The developers are regular members like me and probably deal with these same issues like I do - but they are not at liberty to pick what they work on.
4. I don't know what other factors are at play - for example the complexity of the myriad of laws the church must comply to with an app that goes worldwide, especially since some of the apps can contain financial, private, and children information.

Once official feedback/bug reports have been submitted, the best thing I can do is be patient and Christlike while I try to use workarounds the best that I can. Personally, I don't use some of the features available because I have seen problems with them reported on this forum.

1. We absolutely are the customers. I worked in and with project management a ton during my military career. I was the Lead Command Manager for a billion dollar Air Force ERP and our job was to facilitate customer requirements and feedback with the project management office. LCR has been developed for church members, particularly those in leadership positions, to use to lighten the administrative burden and improve administrative function so that more effort can be focused on ministering within congregations.
2. There is no real feedback mechanism to submitters or if there is the most I've ever received was "It's a known issue and we're working it" so it's possible there are no fixes in process. We've had LCR issues that significantly impacted our stake's ability to perform basic administrative functions to the point that our stake president got involved and pushed the issues up the chain. The problems are less of an issue now but none of us received any feedback.
3. I don't know the full-scope of development but I would assume with a project this big the developers are being paid to develop the system. Some of them may be members, but there might be no members on the development team(s).
4. We are using work-arounds but those work-arounds are much less efficient than the suggestions I had. Multiply that across the church and it adds up.

BrianEdwards wrote: Fri Dec 27, 2024 12:29 pm

tonynocchi wrote: Fri Dec 27, 2024 11:44 amBecause stuff is spread all over the place and it's a pain to track it down. I'm going to be honest, this forum is more frustrating than it is good. I guess trying to make a difference in the lives of people who are working 40-60 hours a week and trying to manage family life while having demanding church callings is just to ambitious of me because the bureaucracy is crushing and non-responsive.

If this Forum is viewed as a place to advocate for change, then I agree frustration will be a likely result. And many times, simply using Church tools can also result in frustration.

My perspective is that we only have an outsiders-view into how the Church development team operates. The Church has provided a specific method for submitting Feedback, and also has enabled this user Forum as a place for member-to-member self-help and discussion. We are told that the amount of Church IT resources allocated to these type of LCR issues is limited, and others have said that these same Church resources are also tasked with many other non-LCR responsibilities that may take priority.

I think most of us have gone through the same five stages of grief regarding how Church tools impact our ability to fulfill our callings (and I've gone through those stages multiple times when bumping up against different Church tool limitations) We all try and do the best we can, even when what the Church provides may feel like more of a burden than a blessing. It's good you continue to share your voice here, having a vibrant user community definitely benefits us all.

Whether or not this forum is a place to advocate change is irrelevant because it's a place to gather information and change can be advocated in other ways. I realize church resources are limited, but so is the time and effort of leaders. We have tasks not getting done in our ward and other wards because we're having to recreate tools to do them which makes the processes less efficient or more prone to not happen. We get the high priority tasks done but at some point things fall through the cracks. We had so many LCR issues in our stake a few months ago with server capacity that our stake president got involved and went up the chain. Something happened because it's been a lot better since.

If there's no point in trying to improve the system then I will stop trying, tell others it is the way it is, and I'll focus on what I can do while things continue to not get done.

And yet somehow, the church was formed, and programs put into place long before the computer. How did we ever manage?

russellhltn wrote: Fri Dec 27, 2024 7:32 pm And yet somehow, the church was formed, and programs put into place long before the computer. How did we ever manage?

You do realize that there are requirements to use LCR right? Tithing has to be entered into LCR even if LCR is down and you had to manually record it. Checks have to be entered into LCR even if you had to manually write it out. Monthly and quarterly financial reviews have to be conducted in LCR. When a ward has a financial audit, the auditor uses a computer and the transactions that are discussed are pulled up in LCR. Member records are moved through LCR.

If ward and stake clerks and auxiliary presidencies stopped using computers the church might not grind to a halt but I bet you a lot less would be done and it would require a lot more effort. The better the tool we have to perform administrative tasks the more focused and efficient our ministering will be.

tonynocchi wrote: Fri Dec 27, 2024 1:22 pm 3. I don't know the full-scope of development but I would assume with a project this big the developers are being paid to develop the system. Some of them may be members, but there might be no members on the development team(s).

All church employees must be temple worth members. And we know from those developers who do sometime frequent the forums that many (if not most) of them have (or have had) callings as clerks in specific. Most of them are very aware of many issues and pain points clerks and leaders have to deal with. But they don't set the development priorities. That's done by the product managers in the sponsoring church departments under the (close) direction of the general authorities of those departments.

eblood66 wrote: Sat Dec 28, 2024 10:07 am

tonynocchi wrote: Fri Dec 27, 2024 1:22 pm 3. I don't know the full-scope of development but I would assume with a project this big the developers are being paid to develop the system. Some of them may be members, but there might be no members on the development team(s).

All church employees must be temple worth members. And we know from those developers who do sometime frequent the forums that many (if not most) of them have (or have had) callings as clerks in specific. Most of them are very aware of many issues and pain points clerks and leaders have to deal with. But they don't set the development priorities. That's done by the product managers in the sponsoring church departments under the (close) direction of the general authorities of those departments.

Do you know for sure that this is an in-house church project and not something that has been contracted out? Even if it is in-house, the main thing I'm learning here is that there's a lot of apathy and/or lack of desire to communicate anything to the stake level or below...so much, that as I've mentioned before, our stake president got involved and elevated issues because of the impact they were having on our stake. The last release notes I can find are from November 10, 2021....

There are 14,593 wards and branches in the US operating on LCR. Just a few changes that save bishoprics, clerks, and auxiliary leaders even just a few minutes a week would collectively save thousands of hours weekly.

tonynocchi wrote: Sat Dec 28, 2024 6:04 pm Do you know for sure that this is an in-house church project and not something that has been contracted out?

I have been told that yes, this is true.

Even if it is in-house, the main thing I'm learning here is that there's a lot of apathy and/or lack of desire to communicate anything to the stake level or below

The developers communicate with those to whom they are responsible and who give them their assignments. They do not report to the local units.

our stake president got involved and elevated issues because of the impact they were having on our stake.

This is an effective way of communicating major issues. But the project managers also read the feedback sent through normal channels and, with approval from their priesthood leaders, guide the developers accordingly.

Just a few changes . . .

Oh, that it were that simple. But there are greater factors at play in the decision making process. Church headquarters does not share those with us, except in very rare cases.

tonynocchi wrote: Sat Dec 28, 2024 6:04 pm Do you know for sure that this is an in-house church project and not something that has been contracted out?

The Church does hire contractors and vendors (who aren't necessarily Church members) to supplement regular full-time employees (who must be active temple-worthy members) on several internal and public-facing tech projects, including Church apps and websites. I don't have information to provide on specific products like Leader and Clerk Resources.

I don't think there's anything wrong with discussing bugs and features here in the community forum, as discussion and putting things into words often triggers helpful thoughts and ideas. It can also inspire more people to provide feedback through the regular channels. I'd like some of the things you mention myself!

However, sometimes threads with generic titles and multiple topics can become magnets for generic bug reports from users who don't understand how feedback or the forum works, creating an eternal thread that never resolves. See, for example, this thread that's been going on for 10 years, with 58 pages of replies – the issues being discussed changing over time: "Send a Message" Function on LCR. So I agree with jdlessley that it might be good to keep things a little more focused and actionable (to the extent reasonable in a community forum).

sbradshaw wrote: Fri Jan 03, 2025 3:38 pm I don't think there's anything wrong with discussing bugs and features here in the community forum, as discussion and putting things into words often triggers helpful thoughts and ideas. It can also inspire more people to provide feedback through the regular channels. I'd like some of the things you mention myself!

However, sometimes threads with generic titles and multiple topics can become magnets for generic bug reports from users who don't understand how feedback or the forum works, creating an eternal thread that never resolves. See, for example, this thread that's been going on for 10 years, with 58 pages of replies – the issues being discussed changing over time: "Send a Message" Function on LCR. So I agree with jdlessley that it might be good to keep things a little more focused and actionable (to the extent reasonable in a community forum).

I've pretty much given up on the thought of even trying to make a difference after recent discussions. We're just going to use work-arounds like discussed in the other thread about outreach. Obviously this introduces inefficiency and risk into how we do things but it's still significantly more efficient and effective than relying solely on what the Church is providing us. Maybe that's the intent though...but I haven't really seen anything communicated about LCR since like November 2021.

lajackson wrote: Sun Dec 29, 2024 12:29 pm ... But the project managers also read the feedback sent through normal channels and, with approval from their priesthood leaders, guide the developers accordingly.

I'm less convinced that this is the case. I've submitted "feedback" multiple times regarding bug that I discovered in LCR back in 2019. Nobody has ever contacted me about it (at least not that I can recall) and it most certainly has not been fixed. This "feedback" mechanism is hardly what i would call "communication". Because of the one-way nature of this mechanism, it's really hard to test your statement, but I went ahead and submitted more feedback on this same issue by clicking on the Feedback link at the bottom of the LCR Send a Message page. We'll see if this "normal channel" works.