YouTube is not a church approved broadcast service?

I received an email a little bit ago regarding "New Tools and Guidelines for Managing Local Broadcasts" and I am confused by a statement in it:

"YouTube and other services are currently being reviewed but are not approved as official tools for broadcasting Church events."

This is rather confusing considering it has been offered as an option to be used in previous official notifications, help docs, and how-to guides.

Here are a few examples:
- https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/too ... w?lang=eng
- viewtopic.php?t=37514
- https://tech.churchofjesuschrist.org/wi ... l_Meetings

It's confusing for them to state that it's not an approved service when there are official help docs for it.

While Zoom is great for specific scenarios and can be used for broadcasts, it is not ideal for areas with poor Internet and can be more difficult to use for the elderly than a basic YouTube stream.

Any ideas what's going on and if it truly is, and never had been approved for use, why is there so much documentation mentioning it and detailing it's use?

I'd expect it may be a transition from what was (and still is) supported, to what is now officially approved. The communication states "Zoom has been approved as the tool for conducting local broadcasts...", and that "YouTube and other services are currently being reviewed but are not approved as official tools for broadcasting Church events." My takeaway is that instead of waiting for all the ducks to line up in a row, the Church is taking this first step from Zoom just being supported to now being officially approved, with the understanding that hopefully YouTube and perhaps other services will eventually also become approved. I don't think this removes anyone's ability to use YouTube as needed, just the awareness that it currently still hasn't gone through the entire approval process.

The big issue in my mind is "what about Stake Conference"? Last I knew, Zoom had a limit on the number of connections that was far short of allowing members to see stake conference at home. Not all buildings can accommodate everyone that meets there in a single meeting.

russellhltn wrote: Thu Oct 26, 2023 3:09 pm The big issue in my mind is "what about Stake Conference"? Last I knew, Zoom had a limit on the number of connections that was far short of allowing members to see stake conference at home. Not all buildings can accommodate everyone that meets there in a single meeting.

Exactly. We routinely have over 700 viewers for Stake Conference.

The wording in the notice makes it seem as if it is, and never was, approved for use, which would generally mean not allowed for use, right?

I don't like the gray area here.

Jacobdaviddean wrote: Thu Oct 26, 2023 3:17 pm We routinely have over 700 viewers for Stake Conference.

Reading the Handbook, there's another issue.

29.3.1

More than one Sunday general session may be held if there is not room for everyone in one session.
...
If necessary, conference sessions may be streamed to meetinghouses or other locations in the stake. Some members may need the conference to be streamed to their homes. For more about streaming meetings, see 29.7.

29.7 Streams and virtual meetings are not meant for the convenience of those who could reasonably attend in person.

It seems the criteria for watching Stake Conference from home has tightened up from what it used to be. In the past, Stake Conference was an exception. Now , it seems to be playing by the same rules as Sacrament.

Two sessions of stake conference. I know it was done in the past, but there's going to be resistance to returning to that. I predict alternate interpretations by those holding the keys at the local level.

Jacobdaviddean wrote: Thu Oct 26, 2023 3:17 pm The wording in the notice makes it seem as if it is, and never was, approved for use, which would generally mean not allowed for use, right?

I believe that "never was approved for use" is not the same as "not allowed for use". In this case there seems to be no restriction on using YouTube. There only appears to be a set of preferences (mostly Zoom) that have been approved officially.

There still are other ways of doing things that have not been officially approved but are not restricted from use either. In fact, the help and support information tells us exactly how to use them.

As of the statement today, there is another consideration. The preference appears to be to use Zoom because it will interface with the Church broadcast page. It appears that those who use YouTube or some other solution will have trouble getting their events synced to that page, if it is even possible at all.

And there is one more consideration now. In our stake, most wards no longer webcast their sacrament meetings except on special occasions. The Notice dated today seems to take the position that most wards are still webcasting regularly. Is there an official position on that?

Should we be? Asking the bishops in our stake will return as many different answers to that question as there are bishops to ask.

russellhltn wrote: Thu Oct 26, 2023 3:35 pm Two sessions of stake conference. I know it was done in the past, but there's going to be resistance to returning to that.

Will a general authority authorize an afternoon session of stake conference, knowing that means he will not be able to fly home on Sunday due to lack of an available flight?

So many things to consider nowadays.

I'm curious on the stream limit too, as we sometimes wouldn't fit within the limit for our stake conferences.

We are currently using Mevo cameras for ward streaming, which can send directly to YouTube without an intermediary. To the best of my knowledge from past attempts, Zoom doesn't allow you to use it without using the full Zoom client (like an RTMP stream), so now this means the need for something like a mobile device that can have the app or a laptop and external camera. Right?

barkeraj wrote: Thu Oct 26, 2023 3:48 pm We , , , can send directly to YouTube without an intermediary. . . . Zoom doesn't allow . . it without using the full Zoom client . . .

To switch our stake center to Zoom will require the addition of more equipment and parts that we do not have, along with the expertise to run both the equipment and the laptop programs and interfaces. That would complicate our webcast process exponentially.

lajackson wrote: Thu Oct 26, 2023 3:37 pm The Notice dated today seems to take the position that most wards are still webcasting regularly. Is there an official position on that?

Yes, it's in the Handbook, 29.7. If you've got "shut-ins", that's a valid reason to webcast. This exemption was part of the "return to church" after the pandemic.

russellhltn wrote: Thu Oct 26, 2023 4:18 pm If you've got "shut-ins", that's a valid reason to webcast.

Yes, that is a valid reason to webcast and gives the bishop permission to webcast if he decides to do so.

Another perspective. If we use Zoom to broadcast an event, we can now expect that we can make it fully conform to everything required by the Handbook. And if our Zoom experience isn't working the way the Church expects, then since the Church has officially approved its use, we can expect the Church to react quickly to resolve any glitches.

If we use another option, it's reasonable to expect that there will be policy in the Handbook that we cannot follow (or perhaps integration with Church functionality that is missing). And that may just be the way it needs to be for now.

Many local leaders will have valid reasons to use something else. I don't think the Church is discouraging YouTube or other services, as they are well aware of the current Zoom limitations. But along with that, local leaders should now have a clear understanding that there will be various aspects of the experience that don't conform to guidance or policy (as Zoom does). Flexibility and adaptability in the Church first require we be aware of the Church policy that applies, so that when we make necessary local adaptations, we're making well-informed decisions.

Ever since the Church's webcast service was retired, we've leveraged YouTube for stake conference, and we are still broadcasting sacrament service every Sunday for our wards and branches in the stake. We use unlisted YouTube playlists and they are created new each month, requiring those who are homebound or otherwise unable to attend in person to receive the updated info each month from their bishopric.

We went wih YouTube because of its RTMPS protocol support. With mounted cameras at the stake center - and a Teradek - and portable Mevo cams at our other two buildings, this seemed like the obvious solution. With today's announcement I'm conflicted on the right course of action.

nitzer280 wrote: Thu Oct 26, 2023 7:53 pm With today's announcement I'm conflicted on the right course of action.

I do not believe there is any reason to be conflicted with a working solution. I am pretty certain that in a day or two someone here will mention that what you are already doing (a YouTube stream) can be captured and sent out over Zoom without changing anything in your current setup. All you need is a laptop with access to the Internet.

And you will only need to do that if your priesthood leaders determine that the webcast should be scheduled and distributed via Zoom.

Another reason not to be conflicted.

The Notice says, Please consider using this “Events” section in the Church Meet portal to publish local events on the Broadcast page and inform members they can access their meeting links at broadcasts.ChurchofJesusChrist.org.

And so we are considering it.

When the Church webcasting system went away, part of the hue and cry was that it was a consolidated place for members to see what webcasts were available to them, and it would not longer be available. And so we went out and solved the problem on our own.

Now the Church has given us another solution to the problem which we no longer have. There seem to be many benefits in using the Events page that we will balance with our current setup in our consideration.

Jacobdaviddean wrote: Thu Oct 26, 2023 2:48 pm "YouTube and other services are currently being reviewed but are not approved as official tools for broadcasting Church events."

This is rather confusing considering it has been offered as an option to be used in previous official notifications, help docs, and how-to guides.

…

Any ideas what's going on and if it truly is, and never had been approved for use, why is there so much documentation mentioning it and detailing it's use?

I'm not an authority on Church webcasting, but "YouTube and other services … are not approved as official tools for broadcasting" isn't the same as "YouTube and other services … are not approved for broadcasting."

Sometimes official tools are the only approved tools, but not always. For example, the store description for the Sacred Music app says that "Sacred Music is the official hymns and music app of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints." That doesn't mean that you're breaking policy if you use Gospel Library, a hymnbook from the pew, a personal hymnbook brought from home, or even a third-party app (perish the thought!) to sing along in Church. Even though none of those other options are the official hymns app, none are forbidden as a tool to sing hymns in sacrament meeting. If you have a system that's working well and aren't yet confident that Zoom would be an improvement, it may be wise to wait for further guidance that clarifies the intent of the statement.

russellhltn wrote: Thu Oct 26, 2023 3:09 pm The big issue in my mind is "what about Stake Conference"? Last I knew, Zoom had a limit on the number of connections that was far short of allowing members to see stake conference at home. Not all buildings can accommodate everyone that meets there in a single meeting.

Zoom meetings/webinars can be setup to redirect to a YouTube feed when there are more than 500 participants, as long as you set it up to do so. See https://tech.churchofjesuschrist.org/wi ... Conference

nmecantwin73 wrote: Fri Oct 27, 2023 3:38 pm Zoom meetings/webinars can be set up to redirect to a YouTube feed when there are more than 500 participants, as long as you set it up to do so. See https://tech.churchofjesuschrist.org/wi ... Conference

With that scenario, what's the point of using Zoom, then? I'd much rather rely on one, easy-to-use, system for everyone. Plus, this still ignores my original points:

While Zoom is great for specific scenarios and can be used for broadcasts, it is not ideal for areas with poor Internet and can be more difficult to use for the elderly than a basic YouTube stream.

I'll add that it's much easier for people to throw a YouTube stream on their TV than it is to get a Zoom meeting.

nmecantwin73 wrote: Fri Oct 27, 2023 3:38 pm Zoom meetings/webinars can be setup to redirect to a YouTube feed when there are more than 500 participants, as long as you set it up to do so. See https://tech.churchofjesuschrist.org/wi ... Conference

Our stake uses zoom's translation feature for our Spanish ward. If English users came in and took all the 500 slots and a Spanish user came they would get kicked over to YouTube with no option for Spanish. We have to send English members to YouTube and Spanish members to Zoom to make sure the slots aren't used by those not in need of the feature it provides.

barkeraj wrote: Fri Oct 27, 2023 3:47 pm Our stake uses zoom's translation feature for our Spanish ward. If English users came in and took all the 500 slots and a Spanish user came they would get kicked over to YouTube with no option for Spanish. We have to send English members to YouTube and Spanish members to Zoom to make sure the slots aren't used by those not in need of the feature it provides.

We've found that PowerPoint offers very good translated options, so we run two YouTube streams. One with direct program output via OBS, then a second OBS instance with the program video superimposed over the PowerPoint captions.

We've also used PowerPoint to allow our Spanish speakers the option to speak Spanish. In these cases, we have two instances of PowerPoint running, one translating English to Spanish and one translating Spanish to English. We only display the Spanish to English on the English stream during their talk. I imagine PowerPoint cannot accomplish this automatically without every user needing to make changes (if they know how) on the fly.

sbradshaw wrote: Fri Oct 27, 2023 1:49 pm "YouTube and other services … are not approved as official tools for broadcasting" isn't the same as "YouTube and other services … are not approved for broadcasting."

Very true. We've been using YouTube for years. I was instructed from the beginning that if we used other streaming services (like YT) that there would be no support from Global Service. I believe this is still true. For the time being, the church tech support staff will most likely be trained to solve Zoom problems only.

As we discussed it in our stake, we came up with the following analogous scenario.

The church has official YW camps that they support. They have missionaries there to support, standards will be kept so that you won't have a drunken party next door, etc. But the entire church is not required to use them, or many do not not even have access to them. That doesn't mean you can't use another camp. You won't get built-in missionaries, you may have to deal with a party next door, etc. but other options are available.

This local broadcast things feels similar. The church is providing an official zoom solution. There is support there, and you won't have a drunken party (you may also like THIS video), next door. This doesn't mean you can't use another streaming service. You won't get support, you will have other videos promoted, etc. but other options are available.

Anyway... by no means an official statement, but it helped our discussion and thought it may help others

To provide additional context, the reliance on YouTube and local YouTube accounts for local unit broadcasts has become increasingly problematic due to potential risks that can impact the church's primary channel and its participation in the YouTube partnership program.

Although we are currently not restricting the use of YouTube Live, we are encouraging local event managers to shift from using YouTube to using Zoom whenever possible. By using a church sponsored Zoom license, event managers can more effectively communicate with members about local unit broadcasts through the new Live-Watch page found at Broadcasts.ChurchofJesusChrist.org. Additionally, we're working on making local zoom events available on the new Gospel Stream mobile app, ensuring that all local, area, and headquarters-sponsored events can be accessed from a single channel.

This change will enhance the accessibility and convenience of local unit broadcasts for members by enabling viewing options in frequently used TV applications and will only be available using the church-sponsored Zoom licenses.

If you choose to continue using YouTube, please take the following precautions to limit the risk of the church’s flagship channel being taken down.
• Do not use the name of the Church in your channel name or channel dashboard info.
• Avoid use of any copyrighted materials
• The YouTube recording of the live streams should be deleted by the end of the day
• Be mindful of content being published to Ward or Stake channels

A general handbook revision is being recommended that will provide specific instructions around YouTube and its use in local unit broadcasting. Watch for a follow up communication with additional guidance.

The Meetinghouse technology team is also looking at options to enhance the streaming capabilities of the Zoom platform to enable a full transition more seamlessly from YouTube to Zoom for those that cannot make the transition immediate.

Thanks for your input, mmatute. It's nice to know what MHT is planning.

mmatute wrote: Tue Nov 07, 2023 12:59 pm • Avoid use of any copyrighted materials

Not likely, since many of our church hymns get flagged for copyright infringement by YouTube.

Thanks for the heads up!

mmatute wrote: Tue Nov 07, 2023 12:59 pm Avoid use of any copyrighted materials

For Sacrament meetings, the main concern is the music used. I don't think there's much opportunity for any other kind.

Is there any specific guidelines on song selection? I know some hymns in the hymnbook have restrictive copyrights. Including such favorites like "All Creatures of Our God and King", "How Great Thou Art", and "Because I Have Been Given Much". These are not available on the church webpage due to copyright restrictions.

I know that's not an exhaustive list, but I'm looking for guidance of what is OK and what is not. Do we have to avoid all copyrighted music, or can we use that which is copyrighted by IRI?

mmatute wrote: Tue Nov 07, 2023 12:59 pm By using a church sponsored Zoom license, event managers can more effectively communicate with members about local unit broadcasts through the new Live-Watch page found at Broadcasts.ChurchofJesusChrist.org. Additionally, we're working on making local zoom events available on the new Gospel Stream mobile app, ensuring that all local, area, and headquarters-sponsored events can be accessed from a single channel.

This raises another question as to what the "vision" is for webcasts. Section 29.7 encourages in-person attendance for sacrament and stake conference. Is this a "teach them correct principles" thing or will this go though some kind a bishop's approval process for shut-ins?

At least in my stake, outside of sacrament and stake conference, I don't think there's much in the way of webcasts that would be of much interest to a large number of the members. So I'm puzzled by what seems to be an effort to make everything available to members within the limits of unit boundaries.

mmatute wrote: Tue Nov 07, 2023 12:59 pm ...problematic due to potential risks that can impact the church's primary channel and its participation in the YouTube partnership program.

I have managed the YouTube channel for a local NBC station for the past 12 years. We have YouTube partner status and access to the Copyright Match Tool. I've dealt with many copyright claims (both initiating claims on other channels and disputing claims on our own). I'll be honest: I was surprised when I started seeing copyright claims on our Stake YouTube channel for the melodies from a live piano or organ performance. That was a new scenario for me.

While I'm not 100% aware of all of YouTube's intricacies and policies, I have never heard of actions of one channel affecting the status of a completely unrelated (in terms of account ownership) channel.

Can you provide more information on the concerns you're facing?

Just to be clear, I in no way mean to imply this is untrue or unwarranted concern. There are plenty of search results for "Stake Conference" on YouTube that are months/years old.

Jacobdaviddean wrote: Wed Nov 08, 2023 4:22 pm I'll be honest: I was surprised when I started seeing copyright claims on our Stake YouTube channel for the melodies from a live piano or organ performance. That was a new scenario for me.

I know this is going on a tangent, but one of the things I played with was BirdNET - an app that can identify birds by their songs. The way it works is they plot the frequency spectrum into a "waterfall" display, and then use an AI "human vision" to look for matches with it's database.

It occurs to me that YT's "content match" may work much in the same way. This may explain some of it's capabilities of matching tunes from different performances.

As for what you saw on your stake's channel, was it match to a copyrighted song, or did it think it was too close to a copyrighted performance of a out of copyright tune?

mmatute wrote: Tue Nov 07, 2023 12:59 pm A general handbook revision is being recommended that will provide specific instructions around YouTube and its use in local unit broadcasting. Watch for a follow up communication with additional guidance.

Really appreciate this entire response; thank you.

russellhltn wrote: Tue Nov 07, 2023 6:20 pm For Sacrament meetings, the main concern is the music used.

It's NOT a concern, or at least it shouldn't be. Our stake channel gets flagged every week for music from our various ward webcasts, but YT doesn't count it as a strike against my stake account because...

• we're not monetizing the content
• (quoted from our YT channel) "Copyright-protected content found. The owner allows the content to be used on YouTube."

In addition to some prelude & postlude organ music, hymns like. "Love One Another", and "The Spirit of God" were flagged last Sunday with the above message from YT. In fact, I've never seen anything besides that YT message in all the years I've been streaming stake conferences, sacrament meetings, funerals, etc.

I just see the whole copyright thing as a non-issue when sticking to either the hymn book or similar music.

Mikerowaved wrote: Thu Nov 09, 2023 3:00 am I just see the whole copyright thing as a non-issue when sticking to either the hymn book or similar music.

What about when using some of the songs I've mentioned that are on more restrictive copyrights?

russellhltn wrote: Thu Nov 09, 2023 10:57 am

Mikerowaved wrote: Thu Nov 09, 2023 3:00 am I just see the whole copyright thing as a non-issue when sticking to either the hymn book or similar music.

What about when using some of the songs I've mentioned that are on more restrictive copyrights?

In my experience, this would only result in a claim or strike against the individual channel/account owner. Since there is no direct link between our stake/ward channels and the official church YouTube channel, this should not cause any issues for the official YouTube channel.

Discussing music, copyrights, and youth camps misses the point. The Church has asked us to use Zoom and not YouTube. "Follow the Brethren" seems like a pretty good idea.

acoustictrout wrote: Thu Jan 11, 2024 10:13 pm "Follow the Brethren" seems like a pretty good idea.

The letter in question is from "Meetinghouse Technology Team". It's not signed by any of the Brethren.

acoustictrout wrote: Thu Jan 11, 2024 10:13 pm Discussing music, copyrights, and youth camps misses the point. The Church has asked us to use Zoom and not YouTube. "Follow the Brethren" seems like a pretty good idea.

This seems like a "If you have to ask, then you already know the answer." type of response while ignoring my original points.

The issue I brought up is that the email makes it sound like we were never allowed to use YouTube, while there are several how-to pages, docs, and notifications on the official church website instructing us on how to use YouTube for streaming purposes without any indication that it is "not approved as an official tool."

The mixed signals are confusing and frustrating.

The issue I brought up is that the email makes it sound like we were never allowed to use YouTube...

I think this thread shows that there are different readings of that email. Many, myself included, believe the Church was making a positive statement about Zoom being approved as the official tool for usage (previously we had zero approved tools, now at least we have one!), and not a negative statement about not wanting anyone to use YouTube. The email was really Zoom-centric, describing how Zoom has been integrated into the official Church system, but doesn't state YouTube or other services cannot be used. I'm grateful the Church provides online resources for local leaders who determine that the official tool still is insufficient for their local needs, or want to integrate an additional tool in tandem with Zoom, and then can access these additional resources to support their local configuration and implementation.