Latest, up-to-date instructions for bishopric, clerks, and secretaries?

Hi,

(Apologies about the length. This started as a "I've never heard that the bishopric has to witness a temple recommend signature into: how can I help make sure we're following current policies/procedures without perpetuating deprecated ones?).

Do important policies and procedures get added to the general handbook and also supplemental instructions get updated? I'm trying to navigate how bishopric members and clerks/secretaries can find out about important procedures if they are new to their calling. I thought the General Handbook and linked instructions from LCR was a great start, but it feels like there is the "word-of-mouth" avenue that makes me worried I'm perpetuating something that someone heard a long time ago in another meeting (I'm sure we all have stories of "so and so said we have to ....".)

I think the answer to my question is "generally yes, important policies and procedures do get added to the GHB and supplemental instructions and trainings". I also think the answer to the question I didn't ask is, "If someone said that we should do things a certain way, as long as that doesn't go against core doctrine or break the law, then it is probably fine to do it that way and if it bothers you, find a time to talk about it privately with the person asking you to do that thing".

Ultimately, I guess I'm posting here because I'm wondering what the procedure is for issuing temple recommends. Recently there was a mixup in issuing a temple recommend and the member left the church building. After the member left, we issued a new recommend and for convenience to the member and the bishop, I offered to drive the recommend over to the member's home and I was told, "you can't drop it off I have to witness the signature" (I'm a secretary).

I had never heard this before, and the interviewer had literally just interviewed the person and witnessed their signature on the recommend just a few minutes ago, so this left me wondering, "Where did this person receive instruction about witnessing the signature?"

My search took me to the General Handbook and also the "Instructions for Issuing Temple Recommends page: https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/hel ... s?lang=eng . I can't find this rule/policy anywhere.

Until... I searched on this forum and found this topic: viewtopic.php?p=229682 . That led me to a search of the Letters and Official Communications and I found a letter from December 22, 2021, in which it says a member of the bishopric witnesses as the member signs the recommend.

I'm glad that I was able to find a reference, however, it left me wondering: don't the policies and procedures in letters ever get added to the GHB or official instructions? I want to make sure we're following official procedures and policies, and I also want to be careful about perpetuating incorrect policies/procedures. I was hoping that I could keep up on reading all letters and official communications, but not stressing about them because I thought that the policy/procedure updates would be added to the GHB and/or official instructions. For newly called bishoprics, clerks, and secretaries, it seems an impossible task to ask them to start reading every letter going by 2-3 (?) years to find out the latest policies/procedures.

Do we just do our best with the information we have, and then if someone says "that's against church policy", do we do our best to corroborate their statement by searching for the policy/procedure, and if we can't find it, ask for clarification?

I want to follow policy, but I don't want to perpetuate policies/procedures that have been sunsetted. (and yes, my scrupolosity and introvertedness likely lead me to want to be knowledgeable about the rules but also make it hard for me to ask for clarification. Perhaps I'll make a suggestion using the feedback link and ask that the writers of the temple recommend instruction page include details about witnessing the signature ).

Thank you~!

This was a hard question, going back a couple of decades, the handbooks would be printed, and then the 'letters' came out. Often it was labeled with 'keep with the handbook' or something like that. As a clerk I would print out all of those kinds of letters for each member of the Bishopric so they had the information in the notebook they kept their handbooks. Letters would often come out and they'd say, this information supersedes something in the handbook or and earlier letter (you were asked to find the old letter and throw it away) - So in the past, I'd say, yes.. the policies used to exist and were used to 'keep order' in the church.

These days, the handbook can be updated at any time and without warning, and it can be updated without a notification, though I'd hope it would be. The real answer is to have a good executive staff (execsec/clerk) to keep their on on those administrative tasks and ensure Bishoprics are within the boundaries created by the handbook.

Thank you for your reply to my somewhat rambling question.

I decided to click the feedback link on this page ( https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/hel ... s?lang=eng ) and they immediately responded saying they'd ask the temple department for clarification. They then responded 12 hours later asking me to read https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/hel ... s?lang=eng to find an answer to my question.

I just let them know that https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/hel ... s?lang=eng does not seem to indicate witnessing a signature.

In the end, this probably won't come up again

As far as going forward: I imagine everyone is doing the best they can and we are responsible to read and follow the letters. If a letter is important enough, it will likely be added to official instructions or training or the handbook.

For something that is fairly administrative, such as "witnessing a signature", it probably isn't as important in the grand scheme of things if a new bishopric + clerks + secretaries doesn't realize that that was in a letter but no where else. (What I'm trying to say: we do the best with the knowledge we have.).

If the GSC responds to my latest comment I'll try to post that here.

nathangg wrote: Mon Feb 13, 2023 8:46 am I offered to drive the recommend over to the member's home and I was told, "you can't drop it off I have to witness the signature" (I'm a secretary).

I had never heard this before, and the interviewer had literally just interviewed the person and witnessed their signature on the recommend just a few minutes ago, so this left me wondering, "Where did this person receive instruction about witnessing the signature?"

My search took me to the General Handbook and also the "Instructions for Issuing Temple Recommends page: https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/hel ... s?lang=eng . I can't find this rule/policy anywhere.

Apparently it was in a letter dated Dec 22, 2021. I don't have access to that letter, but you can read the discussion it caused here.

As 'johnshaw' stated, decades ago for the Church to "keep order", the practical limitations very likely constrained the amount of changes that could be implemented, once a new version of the printed Handbooks was issued worldwide. I expect many leaders at the highest levels were frustrated at these essential limitations on what changes they could realistically implement, and how often they could make them. Nowadays I often look at Handbook sections and am convinced that just last year it read differently, but then wonder if perhaps I am just mis-remembering

Regarding the O.P. -- my impression is that the Church is now ever getting better at adding major changes explained in letters and other announcements, into the Handbook. Of course there still are many discrepancies, and by design the Handbook is principle-based and not as prescriptive. So many letters, help center articles and the like provide details which are often then subject to subsequent modifications. And we often find help center FAQ's that are very up to date, and others that are definitely requiring updates (I just found one recently that referenced much from GHB 1). And of course these type of details will never enter into the Handbook (again, by design). Each Bishop or Stake President will need to determine what their proper approach is to the common dilemma you describe. I personally use the Handbook as my primary source. Then if I'm aware of a recent letter (which is a very relative term given the frequency of changes we see), I'll follow that additional instruction. And for cases where there seems to be conflicting policies, I'll either simply make a determination myself, or ask my Priesthood leader (which is never ever a bad idea!).

BrianEdwards wrote: Wed Feb 15, 2023 12:35 pm Nowadays I often look at Handbook sections and am convinced that just last year it read differently, but then wonder if perhaps I am just mis-remembering

“No man ever steps in the same river twice, for it is not the same river and he is not the same man.” - Heraclitus

One could say the same about reading the Handbook. The reader has a different set of questions in mind, and the Handbook itself changes.

nathangg wrote: Wed Feb 15, 2023 8:14 am I just let them know that https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/hel ... s?lang=eng does not seem to indicate witnessing a signature.

I visited with a member of another stake who recently renewed his recommend. After the member of his stake presidency finished the interview, he printed the recommend to a PDF file and emailed it to the member. The member printed it out, signed it, and used it the next morning.

I did not see that process in the instructions at the link, but I did not see a requirement that the signature be witnessed, either.

lajackson wrote: Wed Feb 15, 2023 9:28 pm

nathangg wrote: Wed Feb 15, 2023 8:14 am I just let them know that https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/hel ... s?lang=eng does not seem to indicate witnessing a signature.

I visited with a member of another stake who recently renewed his recommend. After the member of his stake presidency finished the interview, he printed the recommend to a PDF file and emailed it to the member. The member printed it out, signed it, and used it the next morning.

I did not see that process in the instructions at the link, but I did not see a requirement that the signature be witnessed, either.

Bulletin dated December 22, 2021 titled Delivering Temple Recommends to Members states in part that recommends should not be transmitted electronically for members to print on their own. It also states that the member's signature should be witnessed. The bulletin is in the Official Communications Library. LCR>Official Communications.

garystroble wrote: Thu Feb 16, 2023 1:36 am Bulletin dated December 22, 2021 titled Delivering Temple Recommends to Members states in part that recommends should not be transmitted electronically for members to print on their own. It also states that the member's signature should be witnessed. The bulletin is in the Official Communications Library. LCR>Official Communications.

Good to know. I cannot find it, but I believe you. They should add it to the Help Center instructions.

lajackson wrote: Fri Feb 17, 2023 1:07 pm

garystroble wrote: Thu Feb 16, 2023 1:36 am Bulletin dated December 22, 2021 titled Delivering Temple Recommends to Members states in part that recommends should not be transmitted electronically for members to print on their own. It also states that the member's signature should be witnessed. The bulletin is in the Official Communications Library. LCR>Official Communications.

Good to know. I cannot find it, but I believe you. They should add it to the Help Center instructions.

I've asked this very thing via GSC ticket: Do the help center instructions supersede the bulletin? Or does the bulletin supersede the instructions?

As of right now, I think the bulletin is still considered "active and valid" because I know of no other way to determine if a bulletin becomes obsolete.

BTW: I did think of a reason why the bulletin was made: if a temple recommend is transmitted electronically, it makes it easier to duplicate and share with other people. By asking the interviewer to witness the signature, it doesn't completely remove the chance for duplication, but it reduces it. I can't speak for the reasoning behind the bulletin, but this could be one of the reasons.

And as such, if not transmitting electronically and witnessing the signature is still important, then I hope it gets added to the official instructions.

I'd think the precedence (from highest to lowest) would be: Official Communication Library, General Handbook, Help Center. However, things may not get updated in order.

The problem with the current system is that it doesn't handle NEW clerks very well. If a new clerk comes in, he's hopefully going to read the Handbook. In this situation, the Handbook is apparently still out of date -- and you're supposed to use a letter from a couple of years ago as the current information? Is a new clerk expected to go back and read through the last 2+ years of official letters to see if there are any references that override the Handbook?

That seems really odd to me -- especially for a digital edition that can be updated at will. I kinda feel like both should always happen at the same time -- when an official letter goes out with an update, the (online) Handbook should be updated to match at the same time. Clearly, if the letter went out, said changes have already been approved.

Again, I personally wouldn't characterize the Handbook as necessarily out-of-date for this particular case. It may be that by design the Handbook will not contain this level of detail, and that specifics like this will only ever be found in bulletins and Help Center articles. When there is uncertainty or contrary instructions that a new clerk (or a seasoned clerk) can't resolve, I'd just let the priesthood leader be aware of the info, and then he can make a decision. And if/when additional info is presented, adjustments are made.

I find sometimes that experienced leaders are the toughest nuts to crack, so to say. They can have decades of experience, and be convinced that the way the Church operated in the 90's is good enough for today, or at least that it's good enough for them. Newbies are ready to absorb and accept all info in ways that us older folks sometimes resist. I surely don't discount your description of the obstacles new clerks face -- while there's a lot of really helpful training info and videos available on LCR, for specific use-cases like the one here, it can be difficult to know where to look, and then how to ascertain what's the latest-and-greatest version of policy.

jgoggan wrote: Mon Feb 20, 2023 10:08 am The problem with the current system is that it doesn't handle NEW clerks very well. If a new clerk comes in, he's hopefully going to read the Handbook. In this situation, the Handbook is apparently still out of date -- and you're supposed to use a letter from a couple of years ago as the current information? Is a new clerk expected to go back and read through the last 2+ years of official letters to see if there are any references that override the Handbook?

That seems really odd to me -- especially for a digital edition that can be updated at will. I kinda feel like both should always happen at the same time -- when an official letter goes out with an update, the (online) Handbook should be updated to match at the same time. Clearly, if the letter went out, said changes have already been approved.

The bulletin is less than 14 months old, much closer to 1 year than 2 years. It is back only 34 bulletins from the latest one for a ward clerk to find in the Official Communications Library. The title is clearly about the subject we are discussing. Bulletin titles generally don't require reading through the actual bulletin to discover their subject.

Perhaps this was always in the Handbook, I never know if I've just missed something, or if it's a recent addition. Anyways, just an additional data point of info that I bumped into, which I don't believe has been included in this thread discussion.

GHB 31.4 talks about virtual interviews with members. The last paragraph talks about virtual temple recommend interviews, and states that after the priesthood leaders have signed the recommend (could be digital signatures), the recommend may be sent to the member (it does not state whether a pdf is acceptable which the member then prints, or whether the recommend printing must be done by the leader/clerk). The Stake clerk should not activate the recommend until after verifying the member received the recommend. Obviously this handbook section is specific to virtual interviews, and doesn't explicitly state it can be applied to in-person interviews. But at least in this scenario the Handbook does describe the process of a member receiving their recommend, with no witnessing of a signature required.

BrianEdwards wrote: Tue Mar 07, 2023 12:31 pm Perhaps this was always in the Handbook, I never know if I've just missed something, or if it's a recent addition. Anyways, just an additional data point of info that I bumped into, which I don't believe has been included in this thread discussion.

GHB 31.4 talks about virtual interviews with members. The last paragraph talks about virtual temple recommend interviews, and states that after the priesthood leaders have signed the recommend (could be digital signatures), the recommend may be sent to the member (it does not state whether a pdf is acceptable which the member then prints, or whether the recommend printing must be done by the leader/clerk). The Stake clerk should not activate the recommend until after verifying the member received the recommend. Obviously this handbook section is specific to virtual interviews, and doesn't explicitly state it can be applied to in-person interviews. But at least in this scenario the Handbook does describe the process of a member receiving their recommend, with no witnessing of a signature required.

That seems more targeted at recommends from the book to me. You can't print one of the electronic recommends before activating it, so you can't give one to the member first and activate later.

As always, very good point, I guess this section is silent about digital signatures and virtual interviews. I'm always glad when I share something and get corrected, if I just kept my thoughts to myself I wouldn't see other perspectives.

caillines wrote: Tue Mar 07, 2023 9:09 pm You can't print one of the electronic recommends before activating it, so you can't give one to the member first and activate later.

Actually, you can print it, but it is not yet activated. Remember that there are two processes. I suppose the most common is the digital signature process, where the ward interviews and updates LCR, then the stake interviews, updates LCR, prints the recommend and gives the activated recommend it to the member to sign.

But there is also a process where the ward interviews and prints the recommend in LCR, the member and bishop/counselor/president both sign it, and then the member takes the recommend to the stake for interview and signature. The recommend has been printed, but is not activated until the stake does so after the stake interview.

Again, though, I think most units use the digital signature method, so that the recommend is activated when it is printed. The stake sets the method of digital or manual signatures for each unit.

BrianEdwards wrote: Tue Mar 07, 2023 9:28 pm As always, very good point, I guess this section is silent about digital signatures and virtual interviews. I'm always glad when I share something and get corrected, if I just kept my thoughts to myself I wouldn't see other perspectives.

It turns out I was wrong

lajackson wrote: Tue Mar 07, 2023 10:03 pm

caillines wrote: Tue Mar 07, 2023 9:09 pm You can't print one of the electronic recommends before activating it, so you can't give one to the member first and activate later.

Actually, you can print it, but it is not yet activated. Remember that there are two processes. I suppose the most common is the digital signature process, where the ward interviews and updates LCR, then the stake interviews, updates LCR, prints the recommend and gives the activated recommend it to the member to sign.

But there is also a process where the ward interviews and prints the recommend in LCR, the member and bishop/counselor/president both sign it, and then the member takes the recommend to the stake for interview and signature. The recommend has been printed, but is not activated until the stake does so after the stake interview.

Again, though, I think most units use the digital signature method, so that the recommend is activated when it is printed. The stake sets the method of digital or manual signatures for each unit.

Ahh yes. I had forgotten manual signatures was still an option.
Always good to get these reminders, and I guess it shows the importance of this thread.

I believe that not too long from now (maybe within a year or much sooner), those attending the temple will be able to call up their recommend information in Member Tools, which will generate a QR code that then is scanned at the recommend desk. This is being tested in several places in the world right now.

lajackson wrote: Fri Mar 10, 2023 1:01 pm I believe that not too long from now (maybe within a year or much sooner), those attending the temple will be able to call up their recommend information in Member Tools, which will generate a QR code that then is scanned at the recommend desk. This is being tested in several places in the world right now.

I've heard this mentioned before but never heard/saw that it was being tested. Do you know where that's being tested? I've never seen anything announced

It is being tested in at least three temple districts at this time. There has been no general announcement, nor would I expect to see one until it is released for general use.

nathanowen95 wrote: Sun Jun 18, 2023 12:28 pm Do you know where that's being tested? I've never seen anything announced

Nothing has been announced, but if you live in three specific temple districts you can receive your recommend that way, and any temple in the world is able to accept them. There is one temple district each in California, England, and Africa.