New System for Temple Recommends?

Saw this article in the November 2021 Liahoha for New System for Temple Recommends which in its entirety says

Beginning October 25, 2021, leaders in selected stakes will issue temple recommends—except recommends for living ordinances—using Leader and Clerk Resources (LCR) to print the recommends. Priesthood leaders may apply a digital signature to these recommends, or they may sign the recommend as is currently done.

Using digital signatures is the most secure method for issuing temple recommends, and where possible, digital signatures should be used. Church leaders expect that by December 13, 2021, all Church units will be using LCR.

In addition, the design of the recommend that unendowed members use to participate in proxy baptisms and confirmations has been updated. The designation “limited-use temple recommend” will no longer be used.

Members who were issued an older-style recommend may continue to use that recommend until it expires.

I'm curious if anyone has more info about how it will work? How do you enter a digital signature? If it is digital, how does it go from ward to stake? Does "using Leader and Clerk Resources (LCR) to print the recommends" (emphasis mine) mean at the stake level we have to print a recommend after the interview similar to how the youth recommends are done for the ward? If so, it seems like this will be a huge waste of paper to print 20-30 recommends each week (one per page using a small portion of the page), where having it available in the Tools app would save trees, not be losable, and be more convenient. It would be odd to go to an even more paper intensive process in this day and age.

barkeraj wrote: Sun Nov 21, 2021 8:33 am How do you enter a digital signature?

Most digital signature systems I've seen require you to press a button on the app/website and re-enter your password. In some cases, I've seen where a image of a signature is applied to the document.

Anything requiring hardware is going to create a number of problems.

What I'm curious about is if the recommend itself will become digital. I have mixed feelings about that. It's either going to slow down check-in, or make it too easy to forge/copy. However, on re-reading, it appears it will still be printed (for now).

My concern is that temple interviews will now be held in the clerk's office to have quick access to the printer.

> It's either going to slow down check-in, or make it too easy to forge/copy

I'd disagree with both of those. Stadiums, airlines, most anyone who uses tickets have digital options that they wouldn't have done if it was slower or easier to forge. A paper recommend is just as easy if not easier to forge as you can copy/photo one in a wallet without any pin/face/thumb restricted access and print it out to scan the barcode as I doubt the people at the front desk are trained to look for printing artifacts or anything (especially as they will now officially be printed).

> My concern is that temple interviews will now be held in the clerk's office to have quick access to the printer.

We have 3 presidents going at once so while I don't see the interviews happening in the actual clerks office, I don't see how it doesn't become chaos of trying to manage people awaiting interviews, having presidents needing to log in and find a member to digitally sign something, then printing those out and getting them to the right people. The interview experience would seem to slow as a result

Thus my wondering if anyone here is in that Oct 25 group to shed light on the reality.

barkeraj wrote: Sun Nov 21, 2021 8:33 am… it seems like this will be a huge waste of paper to print 20-30 recommends each week (one per page using a small portion of the page) …

If you have a straight-edge cutter, you could chop off the paper under the recommend and feed the same (shortened) page into the printer for the next recommend.

Our ward/stake has 2 bulletins regarding new temple recommend procedures for both regular recommends for endowed members and recommends for proxy baptisms and confirmations for unendowed members this morning, but both bulletins will not open on the church web page, just says please try again later. When downloaded, they will not open either.

garystroble wrote: Mon Nov 22, 2021 11:19 am Our ward/stake has 2 bulletins on new temple recommend procedures for both regular recommends and limited use ones this morning, but both bulletins will not open on the church web page, just says please try again later. When downloaded, they will not open either.

Same. Tried over and over on multiple machines

Apparently the PDF's were not checked to see if they worked before they were uploaded. Or they became corrupted somehow.

I see one of them is working now.

The PDFs have some fluff and eventually link to this page https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/hel ... s?lang=eng

I'd say this is a big step backwards and I don't see the real benefit. It creates more work for Stake Presidents to have to look people up for each interview, more work for clerks to look up and print out, wastes paper (even with the page re-use suggested above) and gives no advantage to the member other than being able to print it again if they loose it on the way home, but not after one day.

What am I missing here that is the advantage or reason to change things up?

barkeraj wrote: Mon Nov 22, 2021 12:03 pm The PDFs have some fluff and eventually link to this page https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/hel ... s?lang=eng

I'd say this is a big step backwards and I don't see the real benefit. It creates more work for Stake Presidents to have to look people up for each interview, more work for clerks to look up and print out, wastes paper (even with the page re-use suggested above) and gives no advantage to the member other than being able to print it again if they loose it on the way home, but not after one day.

What am I missing here that is the advantage or reason to change things up?

Am suspecting someone is trying to tighten up security on the recommends somehow, but this system does not seem to get there in my opinion. Perhaps there is another step coming later which will reach that goal. Meanwhile, starting this during tithing settlement and the holiday season is going to be interesting at best.

garystroble wrote: Mon Nov 22, 2021 12:09 pm Am suspecting someone is trying to tighten up security on the recommends somehow, but this system does not seem to get there in my opinion. Perhaps there is another step coming later which will reach that goal. Meanwhile, starting this during tithing settlement and the holiday season is going to be interesting at best.

You'd think a very secure way to tighten up security would be to not have a copyable barcode. Change to a 2FA-esque ever changing value via Member Tools that a screenshot won't be worth anything. Once activated your Member Tools generates a barcode to be scanned at the temple that changes every few seconds.

My off the cuff proposal that won't happen, but would solve all the above... in my mind.

• Bishopric starts the recommend and approves the member via Member Tools.
• This gives the member an "in progress" recommend they can take to the stake and has the dynamic barcode from above already going.
• The stake president begins the interview by scanning that barcode with their Member Tools app to make sure the ward level has already been done (or clerk could do it while the member is waiting). No need to look up the member as the barcode automatically associates it to them.
• The app says who the user is with their photo (if available) as a confirmation that they are who they say they are.
• When the interview is complete they click "Activate" in the screen that is already up after the scan which activates it.
• The member can optionally verify in their app that it is activated (a push could even be sent).
• Done

No slow down to look people up (scan is fast), no printing and wasting paper. Crazy secure. No chance of loss (just log in on new/spouse/friends device if you really need to). etc

The only reason I can see to stay physical is a desire to have something the person actually signs as some symbol. But oddly we make the Bishop/President "fake" by making it digital, so that doesn't feel like a strong reason.

At first glance, just a couple of questions (assuming going forward with the digital option)

1. Just to confirm, ward clerks can print activated recommends? (it does not have to be bishop or counselors)

2. It states stake presidencies can choose the printing preferences for each unit, but as a stake clerk I do not have the option under my membership menu. Does this need to be done by a counselor or president?

3. If we choose digital signatures, then existing recommends in process can still be entered normally. Is there a time this goes away? (I know it states Dec 13th, but I assume we still have to have the option for live ordinance recommends and sometimes it takes people a month or two to get in for their stake interview)

4. It notes to destroy all copies of Boke One: Temple Recommends immediately upon switching. So all yellow copies as well, or just new recommend stock?

Thanks!

garystroble wrote: Mon Nov 22, 2021 12:09 pm Am suspecting someone is trying to tighten up security on the recommends somehow,

I think someone is trying to eliminate temple recommend books. They're still there, but only for units that can't somehow print their own.

Trying to print unique barcodes on each recommend, with perforation lines, with a carbonless copy may be causing some issues. Perhaps the existing vendor is retiring the machinery and the new one won't do that. Other vendors might be significantly more expensive.

This might be a stop-gap to a digital recommend. But since not all members have capable phones, all stakes will still have to have a process for printed recommends for the foreseeable future.

The real fun comes when members store these new recommends in protective plastic sleeves. Often, the toner will bind to the plastic creating a real mess. I predict a rash of unreadable barcodes coming to a temple near you.

russellhltn wrote: Mon Nov 22, 2021 12:46 pm This might be a stop-gap to a digital recommend. But since not all members have capable phones, they're still going to have a process for printed recommends for the foreseeable future.

Agreed. There will be a need for a paper fallback for a long time. But a significant majority can move to a quick, secure, digital system today and not force everyone through the fallback.

barkeraj wrote: Mon Nov 22, 2021 12:51 pm Agreed. There will be a need for a paper fallback for a long time. But a significant majority can move to a quick, secure, digital system today and not force everyone through the fallback.

True. My guess is there some pressure to get off of temple books sooner than later and the Member Tools part isn't going to be available soon enough.

If we see a big change in the Temple Books after existing stock runs out, that would tend to validate my theory.

I haven't looked at temple books in depth, but there may be an issue with the barcodes being "too sequential" (meaning "too predictable") making them easy to forge. Printing from LCR means the format can change "at the speed of the internet".

silus99 wrote: Mon Nov 22, 2021 12:38 pm 2. It states stake presidencies can choose the printing preferences for each unit, but as a stake clerk I do not have the option under my membership menu. Does this need to be done by a counselor or president?

It's being rolled out, so perhaps it hasn't come to your stake yet.

Generally, when the term "presidency" is used, it usually excludes the clerk and secretary unless stated otherwise. (See General Handbook 6.2, first two sentences for an example.)

silus99 wrote: Mon Nov 22, 2021 12:38 pm 4. It notes to destroy all copies of Boke One: Temple Recommends immediately upon switching. So all yellow copies as well, or just new recommend stock?

Personally, I destroy all copies of blank recommends, but keep the copies for filled out or voided recommends according to normal procedure.

A few thoughts:
* I also noted the instruction to destroy all copies of Book 1, without any need for keeping them until the last recommend in each book expires (which has been our practice). Unexpected, but I'm always up for getting rid of unnecessary clutter in my office, and our shredder will be ready!
* However, if after going digital we destroy all our Book 1 copies, we wouldn't really be able to switch back to using paper, which is something the Help Doc states we could choose to do.
* I'm not sure how much any Stake/Ward will be able to access before Dec 13th, the Church may wait until that date to enable menu picks and such. Or maybe not.
* I'm not a temple worker, but I've heard plenty of stories of people showing up to the temple with a recommend that's missing a leader signature, or has the wrong membership number written on it, or a badly misspelled name. Digital printing of the recommends -- and the member only getting their paper copy after both digital signatures have been performed -- will help eliminate a lot of these headaches.
* I see benefits for units in the "mission field". Recommends requiring physical signatures of Stake Presidency members is cumbersome when virtual interviews are had, and large travel distances exist. The local Bishop can print the recommend after a Stake Presidency member digitally signs it, that's easier than either mailing the recommend (our Stake does this often for virtual interviews), or waiting till a Stake leader visits the unit and can deliver the recommend.

The change to the new process is a rollout. Our stake has been selected to participate in the new process for issuing temple recommends to endowed members as well as the design of the of the temple recommend unendowed members use to participate in proxy baptisms and confirmations (formerly called limited use recommends). This begins for us on 13 December. We received two notices in the official communications library. The first notice is titled New Process for Issuing Temple Recommends (November 22, 2021) and the other Temple Recommends for Proxy Baptisms and Confirmations (November 22, 2021).

Each notice includes instructions. As mentioned earlier in this thread there are instructions and tutorials in the Help Center article Activate or Change the Status of Temple Recommends.

BrianEdwards wrote: Mon Nov 22, 2021 10:33 pm I also noted the instruction to destroy all copies of Book 1, without any need for keeping them until the last recommend in each book expires (which has been our practice).

I am waiting for an official response through the GSD. My initial discussion with the support person indicates that the instructions to destroy book 1 is only in regard to the unused recommends and not the saved amber copies used to verify the issued recommends. He was under the impression, as am I, that the saved copies would be destroyed when the recommend expires or is replaced.

BrianEdwards wrote: Mon Nov 22, 2021 10:33 pmHowever, if after going digital we destroy all our Book 1 copies, we wouldn't really be able to switch back to using paper, which is something the Help Doc states we could choose to do.

Paper will always be available. It just won't be in the form provided in book 1. With the new procedure the stake/mission will be printing paper copies on regular copy stock. One version will have digital signatures using the Church Account and the other for physical signatures. Those are the options as described in both the notice and the Help Center article.

Our Stake in Minnesota continues to do a lot of virtual temple recommend interviews. I think the virtual option is a great resource going forward as well (even after the pandemic). Our Temple is currently very lenient with recommends that don't have the Stake signature as long as the barcode has been activated. The member gets a signature from a member of the Stake Presidency during future visits to their unit (we do not deal with mailing recommends back and forth).

In respect to the new process, Stake interviews are held throughout the Stake and not just in the Stake Center. I don't see recommends getting printed at the Stake level...more likely for the member to go back to their Ward/Branch for printing. This is especially the case when having virtual interviews.

What would be nice is if after the Stake interview the recommend could be sent to the member to print (especially when some members wait until the last moment to renew their recommends or they are already expired and they need them immediately). I realize that print sizing could exist along with other issues. There should be a way to make this work similar to how temple names are now printed from home and taken to the temple.

I was initially excited about this change when I read about it in the Liahona (back page), but the process is more time intensive and inefficient than expected.

Paper will always be available. It just won't be in the form provided in book 1.

Makes sense, thanks for the clarification. I now see that everyone will be moving to using LCR to print recommends (which is what the notice directly says, I just didn't grasp that part!)

This will be an interesting change. In an earlier life in a stake calling, I did over 300 temple recommend interviews a year. I never did one near a computer or a printer. I either took the yellow copy home to activate the recommend that evening, or I gave the copy to the stake clerk if I saw him and knew he would get to the stake offices to activate the recommend before the member planned to go to the temple. (I think most of the time he took them home and activated them just as I did.)

Exciting times.

Seems like either way, the members shouldn't expect to get their recommend on-the-spot like they used to. It's going to be a major hassle to print at the end of each interview. But doing it en mass means that you'll need to somehow get the paper in the member's hands later. That's probably easiest for the ward since they should be seeing the member the following week.

Would it be possible to just email the member the PDF copy with the digital signature?

That way the member could print and sign it on their own. Works especially well for virtual interviews.

May also be convenient if the member is traveling and forgot the recommend at home. Would be able to print it at hotel or residence where they are staying.

As a presidency we discussed the option of PDF copies as well. We will be testing it out to see how it works. A printed recommend can be easily copied, so what is the harm in letting a member print the recommend if they prefer that option. Otherwise we will be having the Wards print the final recommend to distribute.

danielward76 wrote: Tue Dec 07, 2021 7:13 pm A printed recommend can be easily copied, so what is the harm in letting a member print the recommend if they prefer that option.

The security of a printed recommend depends on someone being able to get ahold of it, get to a copy machine, and return it before it's missed. (And many copy machine tends to mess up the barcode. It looks fine, but can be tricky to read.)

The security of a PDF depends on the security of the email box as well as the file system on the computer they're using.

Any mention of security needs to ask "secure from whom?". Both have exposure to a roommate or family member, but the latter tends to offer more opportunity to more people. Especially on shared computers.

We received the notifications that our stake would be participating in this new process, but after reading the instructions on where the "Unit Recommend Printing Preferences page" link is suppose to be (LCR --> Membership --> Temple Recommends section), we find the link to be nonexistent for both myself (stake clerk) and the stake presidency. The instructions do state that "Note: This option is only available to stake and mission presidencies" of which, as mentioned in an earlier post, I am technically not a member of. However, the official communication has "Before December 13, 2021, the stake or mission president directs the clerk to go to the Unit Recommend Printing Preferences page..." Assuming "the clerk" is the stake clerk, I supposedly should have access to that page.

Is anyone else seeing this same issue? Are we just not looking in the right place? If we're not to be involved in the initial December 13th changeover, then I'm not understanding why we would have received the notifications.

russellhltn wrote: Tue Dec 07, 2021 8:49 pm The security of a printed recommend depends on someone being able to get ahold of it, get to a copy machine, and return it before it's missed. (And many copy machine tends to mess up the barcode. It looks fine, but can be tricky to read.)

Isn't this really just get a hold of it, take a picture with the 12+ megapixel camera in their pocket, and print it later at their convenience? I would still tend to think getting onto a computer (even shared) getting into email, searching, finding, printing (maybe forwarding to self? but then covering tracks) would be more time consuming than taking a pic of a paper one.

So the letter said the 13th which is a Monday, and I'm not seeing any updates yet for this Sunday... do we presume it actually gets turned on on Monday and we have that week to figure it out before the "rush" on Sunday?

barkeraj wrote: Thu Dec 09, 2021 1:30 pm So the letter said the 13th which is a Monday, and I'm not seeing any updates yet for this Sunday... do we presume it actually gets turned on on Monday and we have that week to figure it out before the "rush" on Sunday?

Maybe they intended the "Before December 13, 2021..." date to be on the 12th? That wouldn't necessarily surprise me.

klarkwalker wrote: Thu Dec 09, 2021 11:29 am Is anyone else seeing this same issue? Are we just not looking in the right place? If we're not to be involved in the initial December 13th changeover, then I'm not understanding why we would have received the notifications.

Same here. We got all the same communication and can't find where we would enable it.

harperrg wrote: Thu Dec 09, 2021 3:52 pm Same here. We got all the same communication and can't find where we would enable it.

Just heard from the Global Service Department:
"Although the letter you received does say that this preference must be set before Dec 13th, the system has not been enabled yet. This ability should be enabled no later than Dec 13th."

barkeraj wrote: Thu Dec 09, 2021 1:30 pm

russellhltn wrote: Tue Dec 07, 2021 8:49 pm The security of a printed recommend depends on someone being able to get ahold of it, get to a copy machine, and return it before it's missed. (And many copy machine tends to mess up the barcode. It looks fine, but can be tricky to read.)

Isn't this really just get a hold of it, take a picture with the 12+ megapixel camera in their pocket, and print it later at their convenience? I would still tend to think getting onto a computer (even shared) getting into email, searching, finding, printing (maybe forwarding to self? but then covering tracks) would be more time consuming than taking a pic of a paper one.

Ah, I keep forgetting about cell phone cameras. But I think most carry their temple recommend in the same thing they carry their cash, so they tend to be rather careful about leaving things lying around.

There it two types of mischief here - intentional and "opportunity". I'd think being on a computer that's only at the "average general public" level of cybersecurity, it expands the number of people exposed to "opportunity". It's no longer limited to the immediate household.

klarkwalker wrote: Thu Dec 09, 2021 4:19 pm

harperrg wrote: Thu Dec 09, 2021 3:52 pm Same here. We got all the same communication and can't find where we would enable it.

Just heard from the Global Service Department:
"Although the letter you received does say that this preference must be set before Dec 13th, the system has not been enabled yet. This ability should be enabled no later than Dec 13th."

I don't suppose GSC told you exactly where to find the place where the stake clerk is to enable the wards to use the new system. We had a Bishop's Council Meeting last Wednesday. The Stake President and Bishops were in agreement that all our wards would use the new recommends. I can think of two places where this might be placed.

1. LCR / Membership / Temple Recommends / <new link>
2. LCR / Other / Unit Settings / <new link>

I check these two locations daily and occasionally check the other menus to see if anything new shows up. I suspect it will be the second location listed above.

egowen wrote: Fri Dec 10, 2021 9:36 pm I don't suppose GSC told you exactly where to find the place where the stake clerk is to enable the wards to use the new system.

Here's what we received from GSC:
You will be able to indicate your preference for digital or physical signatures in LCR on December 13th as follows:
1. To access the Recommend Printing Preferences page, go to ChurchofJesusChrist.org and sign in using your Church account.
2. After signing in, select My Account and Ward. Under Tools and Support, select Leader and Clerk Resources. This action will open a new page with menu options.
3. Select Membership from the menu bar at the top. Under Temple, select Unit Recommend Printing Preferences.
Note: This option is only available to stake and mission presidencies.
4. The default is Physical Signatures, where the recommend is printed at the ward or branch level and then taken to the stake or mission. Click Digital Signatures to indicate the units that will use the Digital Signature process.

The system seems to be working now. (At least the part where you set Printing Preferences.)

It's working today on our system, to be able to set our preferences. Still not sure how the actual process will go. We have stake recommend interviews coming up this Sunday so we shall see!!!

Would love to hear from any stake that is / has been doing this testing already and how it works....

Not really a tech issue, unless you count fear of technology. We’re ready to go inout ward, but yesterday our stake president, who has a long history of resisting any new tech, sent us (our bishopric) a text that said je wanted us to keep using Book 1 and just ignore the LCR method.

I’ve re-read the communication and there are only two choices, digital or print from LCR and sign. There is no option to ignore.

I’ve never been in a situation where a priesthood leader tells me to ignore an official communication, so I’m not sure what to do (if anything). Thoughts?

gwewyr wrote: Wed Dec 15, 2021 2:19 pm I’ve never been in a situation where a priesthood leader tells me to ignore an official communication, so I’m not sure what to do (if anything). Thoughts?

My tactic for those kinds of things is to go to the group above him and have a quiet talk. As a clerk, I've had a few discussions with my trainer, the stake clerk, about things going on. But when the leader in question is the stake president, I'm not sure what to do other than talk with his councilors or the clerk as you really don't have any relationship with the next level up.

In this case, there's a possibility the ability to approve recommends the old way will disappear. If that happens, your SP will have no choice but to move forward. (And it will be the stake clerk who will be the bearer of bad news. So, perhaps he is the best one to talk to.)

Reminds me of our previous stake patriarch, who had no tech presence at all, and insisted on doing things the non-tech way.

This too shall pass.

When your stake president discovers his members can no longer obtain temple recommends, he will come around. Leave it to the stake clerk and your bishop to run interference until then. And be ready to support the change when it happens.

Thanks everyone.

I reached out to one of the counselors in the stake presidency who just got back to me and said “it’s a long story, but at this point the Church considers us switched to the new system and I’ll be visiting with bishops to let them know they do have to destroy Book 1 and use LCR…”

So, Saturday I’ll set up a wireless printer and make sure they can all print directly from their phones/tablets as they conclude interviews (to custom size/pre-cut paper).

Anyone seen any documentation on this? Images of what the screens look like for bishopric and presidency? Can a clerk/secretary look them up and mark them as having completed their interview or does it have to be done by the bishopric/presidency? What the interface looks like for those printing them out? etc?

I found the "Unit Recommend Printing Preferences" and "Recommend Activations" pages with the latter having an empty "Awaiting Stake Activation" list, but as a stake clerk I'd love to see what the ward experience is like so I can help support them and even know what my experience will be like.

We have all discussed how painful this looks to be, but I'm also surprised at how little support an instructions there are relative to the experience as well.

I think you will have to wait to see which option the Stake Presidency decide. From what I’ve been told there are two ways of implementing this. Digital Signatures and Physical Signatures. One of our wards is running a pilot scheme, on behalf of our SP, to see which option works best for us!

Can a clerk/secretary look them up and mark them as having completed their interview or does it have to be done by the bishopric/presidency?

It appears to me that as a stake clerk I can do this, but I kind of wish I couldn't. What I hope our stake avoids is having the interviewer send the interviewee over to the clerks office to tell the clerk that he/she passed the interview.

What the interface looks like for those printing them out?

One thing we learned the hard way is: Don't click the "print" button unless you really mean it. Doing so makes the system think you've printed the recommend; there's no chance to say "never mind". You do have another chance to reprint the recommend, but that chance expires at the end of the day.

as a stake clerk I'd love to see what the ward experience is like so I can help support them

Amen to that! As a stake clerk, it feels like I am regularly called upon to train ward clerks on an app or procedure that I myself have no direct access to.

gwewyr wrote: Wed Dec 15, 2021 11:31 pm Thanks everyone.

I reached out to one of the counselors in the stake presidency who just got back to me and said “it’s a long story, but at this point the Church considers us switched to the new system and I’ll be visiting with bishops to let them know they do have to destroy Book 1 and use LCR…”

So, Saturday I’ll set up a wireless printer and make sure they can all print directly from their phones/tablets as they conclude interviews (to custom size/pre-cut paper).

I'm going to try and setup the same system. Does anyone know of a good printer that is compatible with Android and iOS that the SP members can print from??

Found some docs on this
https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/hel ... s?lang=eng

Re-printing is a little confusing to me

There are several ways to print a recommend. If you need to reprint a recommend, it may be reprinted by the stake within the same day the recommend was originally printed. If a recommend is marked lost, damaged, or stolen, the ward or branch can reprint the recommend if the signatures were recorded in LCR. If the recommend has digital signatures, it may be reprinted without re-interviewing the member.

So the original can only be reprinted the same day, but a week later it can be marked as lost and then reprinted anyway? If so, what is the benefit of the one day print restriction?

This process is going to be such a slow down. We do weekly open hours at the stake level for recommends and have people sometime waiting an hour for an interview. Now each interview will take even longer as the President looks the person up and does all the approving stuff. Or the President doesn’t do that and opens the door to tell the clerk they are good so they can go mark it and print it. But the clerk is managing who is next in line AND getting the approval from 3 presidents AND printing recommends out. We will now need multiple clerks/secretaries to be there to manage all that. No just handing a stack of yellow copies every so often.

Am I seeing the complexities correctly? Sure it may be a wasatch front specific scenario, but is valid none the less.

barkeraj wrote: Sat Dec 18, 2021 9:45 pm So the original can only be reprinted the same day, but a week later it can be marked as lost and then reprinted anyway? If so, what is the benefit of the one day print restriction?

It can be reprinted after one day ONLY if the stake is using digital signatures. If the stake is using physical signatures - it appears you'd have to re-interview.

barkeraj wrote: Sat Dec 18, 2021 9:45 pmThis process is going to be such a slow down. We do weekly open hours at the stake level for recommends and have people sometime waiting an hour for an interview. Now each interview will take even longer as the President looks the person up and does all the approving stuff. Or the President doesn’t do that and opens the door to tell the clerk they are good so they can go mark it and print it. But the clerk is managing who is next in line AND getting the approval from 3 presidents AND printing recommends out. We will now need multiple clerks/secretaries to be there to manage all that. No just handing a stack of yellow copies every so often.

Keep in mind you're constraining yourself to the idea that the member walks out with a recommend in hand. I don't see requirement anywhere. Granted, this has been the tradition, and it will be hard to change. But adopting the idea of the recommend getting to the member after there's been time to do the paperwork offers some alternatives.

This process is going to be such a slow down

I'd also hold out hope that we are currently at an interim stage, and that at some future point recommends are available via the member's LDS Tools app on their cellphone. If this becomes the case, then for most members they'd walk out with their "recommend in their hand" (i.e. cellphone in their hand...), and the physical printing would be eliminated. The extra steps to look up members, etc., would then be more than offset by the benefit of the member always knowing where their recommend is, always having it ready whenever they travel, not getting lost, or wet, or torn. Downside is you wouldn't be able to personalize it anymore with a cool recommend holder

There's been no word about whether this is on their radar (there never is), but it seems a reasonable hope to have. And then this would be an acceptable intermediate stage, even with the concerns you mention, if it gets us to that end point.

russellhltn wrote: Keep in mind you're constraining yourself to the idea that the member walks out with a recommend in hand.

Yeah. I keep forgetting that there was a time when every temple recommend in the Church expired on May 31st each year, and that they all had to be mailed to Church headquarters for a signature from the President of the Church before they could be used. We have certainly come a long way since then.

barkeraj wrote: Sat Dec 18, 2021 9:45 pm Re-printing is a little confusing to me

There are several ways to print a recommend. If you need to reprint a recommend, it may be reprinted by the stake within the same day the recommend was originally printed. If a recommend is marked lost, damaged, or stolen, the ward or branch can reprint the recommend if the signatures were recorded in LCR. If the recommend has digital signatures, it may be reprinted without re-interviewing the member.

So the original can only be reprinted the same day, but a week later it can be marked as lost and then reprinted anyway? If so, what is the benefit of the one day print restriction?

Note that the stake can only print it on the same day, but the ward can reprint it at any time when needed. This frees up the stake from needing to handle lost or damaged recommends.

barkeraj wrote: Sat Dec 18, 2021 9:45 pm This process is going to be such a slow down. We do weekly open hours at the stake level for recommends and have people sometime waiting an hour for an interview. Now each interview will take even longer as the President looks the person up and does all the approving stuff. Or the President doesn’t do that and opens the door to tell the clerk they are good so they can go mark it and print it. But the clerk is managing who is next in line AND getting the approval from 3 presidents AND printing recommends out. We will now need multiple clerks/secretaries to be there to manage all that. No just handing a stack of yellow copies every so often.

Am I seeing the complexities correctly? Sure it may be a wasatch front specific scenario, but is valid none the less.

I don't know what constraints your stake has, but if someone is waiting an hour for an interview, that seems like more of a slowdown than waiting 10 minutes for a recommend to be printed. In any case, if the stake president is doing several interviews in a row, I expect he would keep the relevant Leader and Clerk Resources page up in his browser (rather than closing it and needing to navigate each time), making it just a couple of clicks to approve and print – replacing the previous step of signing the physical recommend.

This is is what we are doing:

- Ward interviews member and activates their portion of the digital signature
-Stake reviews the Recommend Activation List in LCR and secretary schedules interview at a specific time
-Member is interviewed by a counselor of the stake presidency
-Stake secretary activates, prints & cuts out recommend while member is being interviewed
-Stake secretary hands out recommend to member if interview is good and has member sign recommend (counselor signals secretary that all is good).

Our Stake President only interviews living ordinances which means no digital signatures for him. That means I only have to manage 2 counselors doing digital signatures. We don't have weekly open hours which cuts down on waiting time to a few minutes; everyone is scheduled to a specific time. The stake can only reprint the same day. I am not sure if the ward can reprint later after stake activation.

supermanforever wrote: Sun Dec 26, 2021 7:29 pm This is is what we are doing:

- Ward interviews member and activates their portion of the digital signature
-Stake reviews the Recommend Activation List in LCR and secretary schedules interview at a specific time
-Member is interviewed by a counselor of the stake presidency
-Stake secretary activates, prints & cuts out recommend while member is being interviewed
-Stake secretary hands out recommend to member if interview is good and has member sign recommend (counselor signals secretary that all is good).

Our Stake President only interviews living ordinances which means no digital signatures for him. That means I only have to manage 2 counselors doing digital signatures. We don't have weekly open hours which cuts down on waiting time to a few minutes; everyone is scheduled to a specific time. The stake can only reprint the same day. I am not sure if the ward can reprint later after stake activation.

The ward can reprint the recommend at any time after it's been activated, as far as I can tell.

That's interesting that you activate the recommend before the person finishes their interview. If the person doesn't qualify for a temple recommend, do you then deactivate it after the interview? It seems like that could mess with reports, and it could cause issues if the secretary gets distracted and forgets to deactivate it.

How do the digital signatures work? We changed one of our units to digital to see how things would go but our presidents don’t see a place to upload a signature or anything. What are we missing?

barkeraj wrote: Sat Jan 01, 2022 9:02 am How do the digital signatures work? We changed one of our units to digital to see how things would go but our presidents don’t see a place to upload a signature or anything. What are we missing?

I don't have any special knowledge and am no longer in a position to see this in the system, but in my work we have systems that use a digital signature. You don't upload a copy of your handwritten signature, you digitally "sign" the record by approving with your password-protected access and that is the "digital signature" our system uses.

barkeraj wrote: Sat Jan 01, 2022 9:02 am How do the digital signatures work? We changed one of our units to digital to see how things would go but our presidents don’t see a place to upload a signature or anything. What are we missing?

It's not really a digital signature. It's more of a digital authorization. When a bishopric or stake presidency member completes their interview, they enter the information in LCR and indicate who did the interview by choosing the name from a drop-down list. When the recommend is printed, the names of the bishopric/stake presidency interviewers are printed in the signature areas. When using the digital option, the only signature on the recommend is the member's.

I have a question regarding the language in the December 22nd transmittal:

It states a member of the stake presidency or bishopric needs to deliver and witness the signature. The stake clerks are given authority to activate (on behalf of a presidency member), print or cancel a recommend. Does this language mean they cannot deliver it and witness the signature?

It would be helpful if clerks could not just print, but also deliver the recommend.

Thanks!

silus99 wrote: Tue Jan 04, 2022 8:49 pm I have a question regarding the language in the December 22nd transmittal:

It states a member of the stake presidency or bishopric needs to deliver and witness the signature. The stake clerks are given authority to activate (on behalf of a presidency member), print or cancel a recommend. Does this language mean they cannot deliver it and witness the signature?

It would be helpful if clerks could not just print, but also deliver the recommend.

Thanks!

That could depend on your (or your stake president’s) interpretation of “stake presidency” or “bishopric”. Sometimes the terms include clerks/secretaries, and sometimes it doesn’t. In Member Tools if you click stake presidency it includes clerks/secretaries

Reading General Handbook 6.2, I'm seeing a very different interpretation.

The wording on the print out is as follows: "The stake/mission leader will: Deliver the recommend to the member and ensure that the member signs the recommend." It does not mention stake presidency. Yes, the clerks can deliver the recommend after the interview.

It seems we currently have three areas of official guidance:
1) GHB 26.3, which is silent on the procedure for witnessing a member's signature on the recommend
2) 12/22/21 Official Communication: Refers to Stake Presidency or Bishopric witness
3) Print Out: Stake/Mission leader witnesses signature (doesn't mention Bishopric or Stake Presidency directly)

I agree with russelhltn, both GHB 6.2 (Stake Presidency definition) and GHB 7.1 (Bishopric definition) do not include clerks. GHB 33.3.2 separates a Stake Clerk from the Stake Presidency (but he is a member of the Stake Council). And GHB 7.4 states ward clerks are not members of Bishoprics.

So my thought is that the 12/22 communication is more specific than the language on the printout, and thus clerks should not be witnessing the signatures.

We switched our stake over to all digital last sunday so today we are getting lots coming in with them. But the temple recommend pages have been up and down and throwing errors all day. Anyone else? This is kind of a nightmare for us.

barkeraj wrote: Sun Jan 09, 2022 2:46 pm the temple recommend pages have been up and down and throwing errors all day. Anyone else? This is kind of a nightmare for us.

Same for us today. Access denied, clerk permissions, etc. Definite troubles today.

We just finished addressing some performance issues being caused by another application. Hopefully that helps things settle down.

It is up and running for us now, thanks. Definitely makes me nervous for the future though Will be running around delivering printouts that we were able to do after people left.

After the Stake interview we have the units handle printing the recommends. We let the Bishoprics know beforehand that they should let the member know that the following Sunday they can pickup their recommend in their home Ward. The member already knows what the process will entail.

As a Stake Presidency we conduct both virtual interviews and in person interviews when visiting units. This past Sunday I conducted multiple in person interviews during the second hour and after church each of those members were able to receive there printed recommends the same day. For virtual interviews the member can pick up their recommend on Sunday.

This process has been simple and is going smoothly for us. The best part is that the Stake isn’t involved in the printing (except in those rare last minute situations).

Our stake has been using the new temple recommend system. The Stake Presidency like it well enough. The Stake Presidency prints the recommends as they are finishing their interview. My biggest gripe is the that the new manual entry is a complete mess. The extra tabs, the unnecessary movement of hand from mouse to keyboard back to mouse is maddening. Is this just me?

danielward76 wrote: Wed Jan 12, 2022 8:55 pm After the Stake interview we have the units handle printing the recommends. We let the Bishoprics know beforehand that they should let the member know that the following Sunday they can pickup their recommend in their home Ward. The member already knows what the process will entail.

As a Stake Presidency we conduct both virtual interviews and in person interviews when visiting units. This past Sunday I conducted multiple in person interviews during the second hour and after church each of those members were able to receive there printed recommends the same day. For virtual interviews the member can pick up their recommend on Sunday.

This process has been simple and is going smoothly for us. The best part is that the Stake isn’t involved in the printing (except in those rare last minute situations).

So the recommend does not have to be printed the day of the stake interview? The official language makes it sound like the recommend can only be printed that day. If you are able to print it later at the ward level, please let me know. That would solve a huge obstacle we are dealing with in our stake.

So the recommend does not have to be printed the day of the stake interview? The official language makes it sound like the recommend can only be printed that day.

I agree, reading the letter and even the main portion of the Help Center doc Activate or Change the Status of Temple Recommends definitely gives the impression that it is the Stake that always prints the recommends, and on that same day (unless reprinting a lost recommend). But in the FAQ portion of the above Help Center doc, it describes the process for a member who cannot attend the Stake interview in-person. Here it states that if digital signatures are being used, the ward/branch can print the recommend. So in practice I expect many Stake Presidencies will default to having wards/branches print the recommends the following Sunday, to offload that from the Stake, even for members who attend the interviews in-person.

With a few weeks under our belt now, here is our experience.

We had an old wifi B&W printer laying around after upgrading to a new one. We got that back up and running. I had the same printer at home that was also sitting with an inch of dust on it, so we got it cleaned up and configured for Liahona access. This would allow at least the two counselors to have a printer in their rooms to print it out quickly while wrapping up with the member.

The older printers did not have airprint, so the counselors now need to bring a laptop to print from. Luckily they are both techy and have one to bring, but I am sure will be forgotten on occasion.

Our president is not as techy and so doesn't have a laptop to bring. He had his phone, but we would need to get another printer that is airprint compatible. It also leads to another issue that we have run out of NoSplash slots and get a device limit reached error. It only allows 15 and we have a number of TVs and printers already filling them up. I already have to take a TV off to add a Printer, then put it back on when we want to use the TV. We have requested an increase but no response so far. A phone disconnects from wifi whenever the screen goes off, so we'd either need to have his phone stay on all the time, or he would need to wait for it to reconnect to be able to print. That is one we haven't figured out how to easily overcome yet, but clerks having to print for one president is better than three.

Before we had the printers we had a situation where a president had a sensitive interview with tears shed. Normally they could have their recommend in hand and open the door to make a hasty departure, but in that case they had to come out and tell us to print it while they lingered and wiped away tears. This is somewhat solved for the two counselors but currently would still happen for the President. Granted he could leave the person in there and step out to get a print done then return to let them do the hasty departure thing. We are still learning, but putting the situation out for others to potentially be ready for. We also aren't positive to handle the rare "rejection" where they didn't get the recommend for whatever reason. Some subtle head shake or something that indicates to us not to run to print something that others in the hallway won't see as obvious and wonder what is going on when they saw us run for the last few printouts.

The presidents miss having the recommend handed to them. They could do a quick glance at it and know the members name to call them by it and the member would feel like they were known. Maybe it wasn't genuine, but all three have said it would set a great tone in the interview which is somewhat lost when they have to say "and who are you?". Not the end of the world, but again... feedback.

We are finding our path, but it sure would have been nice to have some kind of guide of "here are things you may run into and ways to overcome them". I know we don't need to be governed in all things, but better prep and ideas (not rules/commands) would have saved some frustration.

Still looking forward to the hopeful future where it is all done via barcodes on an app (workflow I proposed back toward the start of this thread) that would alleviate most of the above

barkeraj wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 12:21 pm It also leads to another issue that we have run out of NoSplash slots and get a device limit reached error. It only allows 15 and we have a number of TVs and printers already filling them up.

My understanding is that a device needs to be added to NoSplash only if it needs DNS service. It should be able to communicate on the local LAN just fine without it.

The question is if the devices use outside services to communicate or find each other.

russellhltn wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 4:21 pm My understanding is that a device needs to be added to NoSplash only if it needs DNS service. It should be able to communicate on the local LAN just fine without it.

The question is if the devices use outside services to communicate or find each other.

Hmmm... They wouldn't show up until we added them to the list. Maybe I'll have to try again and give them more time or something.

barkeraj wrote: Fri Jan 21, 2022 4:24 pm Hmmm... They wouldn't show up until we added them to the list. Maybe I'll have to try again and give them more time or something.

It begs the question of what is really happening. Is the device phoning home to check on a update before it makes itself available? Is an external sever being used to coordinate the connection? Or, perhaps the approval is also required for local name resolution. Perhaps if they were being addressed by IP ...

jchdds wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 9:15 pm

danielward76 wrote: Wed Jan 12, 2022 8:55 pm After the Stake interview we have the units handle printing the recommends. We let the Bishoprics know beforehand that they should let the member know that the following Sunday they can pickup their recommend in their home Ward. The member already knows what the process will entail.

As a Stake Presidency we conduct both virtual interviews and in person interviews when visiting units. This past Sunday I conducted multiple in person interviews during the second hour and after church each of those members were able to receive there printed recommends the same day. For virtual interviews the member can pick up their recommend on Sunday.

This process has been simple and is going smoothly for us. The best part is that the Stake isn’t involved in the printing (except in those rare last minute situations).

So the recommend does not have to be printed the day of the stake interview? The official language makes it sound like the recommend can only be printed that day. If you are able to print it later at the ward level, please let me know. That would solve a huge obstacle we are dealing with in our stake.

Sorry, I’ve not checked this in a while. After 6 months of using the exact process I previously described, we have found it to work perfectly for our needs. Yes, the Wards/Branches print all of the recommends and issue to the members. As a stake we don’t print the recommends and this process is very convenient.

I'm a recent stake clerk. A branch clerk recently made an error when printing a temple recommend that had been processed with the bishop and the stake president. In so doing, the temple recommend holder's name is now on two lists at the stake level- "awaiting stake activation" and "recently activated". Does anyone know what steps to take to resolve this duplication so that the recommend can be processed properly without having to be redone? Thank you.

jbuhl68 wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 12:20 pm I'm a recent stake clerk. A branch clerk recently made an error when printing a temple recommend that had been processed with the bishop and the stake president. In so doing, the temple recommend holder's name is now on two lists at the stake level- "awaiting stake activation" and "recently activated". Does anyone know what steps to take to resolve this duplication so that the recommend can be processed properly without having to be redone? Thank you.

I'd suggest contacting support. They have more options on their end, and they make need to make a bug report to the developers.

I can only guess that the branch clerk started a new recommend. But how he was able to start one without reporting the other as lost is curious. Or, perhaps it has been reported as lost, but the member would still be "recently activated". From a spiritual standpoint, that status is still accurate - especially if this was a member who had let their recommend lapse. From a clerical standpoint, that's a bit messy.

Thanks. I contacted Global Service Center. I got the help that I needed. I suggest that anyone having the same problem take the time to do the same.