New Clerk PC hardware - 2021

Well, I just received the new PC's for our stake. Here's some quick specs for the curious...

Model: Lenovo ThinkCentre M70Q (11DUS45J00)
CPU: Intel Celeron G5905T (2 core, 2 thread) 10th Gen
CPU Socket: LGA 1200
Memory: 8GB Samsung DDR4-3200 (M471A1K43EB1-CWE) 1x socket occupied, 1x socket available
Graphics: Intel UHD Graphics 610 (Built into CPU)
Drive: Samsung PM981a (MZVLB256HBHQ-000L7) 256GB SSD, M.2, NVMe, PCIe Gen3 x4 - 1x M.2 slot and 1x 2.5" SATA bay available.

Front Connectors: 1x USB 3.1 Gen 2 (10Gb), 1x USB-C, 3.5mm headphone/external speaker jack
Rear Connectors: DC Power, DisplayPort, HDMI, 3x USB 3.1 Gen 1 (5 Gb), 1x USB 3.1 Gen 2 (10Gb), LAN, RP SMA-F (WiFi)

While the new system seems responsive enough (even with the rather weak CPU), I seriously think our 5 year old Lenovo's could run equally as well with a memory upgrade from 4 to 8GB and an SSD to replace the mechanical HD. I might try that for kicks before turning the old ones back in.

After letting the provisioning tool run and reboot a couple of times, the first one ended up with the Sophos Endpoint Agent installed. Grrr... I'll let it run overnight and see if it gets removed. On the next one, I may try running the latest provisioning tool from the mhtech website instead of what came preloaded.

Mikerowaved wrote: Mon Sep 20, 2021 7:40 pm Well, I just received the new PC's for our stake.

What a coincidence. I just got two of the several that will be coming to me.

Mikerowaved wrote: Mon Sep 20, 2021 7:40 pmAfter letting the provisioning tool run and reboot a couple of times, the first one ended up with the Sophos Endpoint Agent installed. Grrr... I'll let it run overnight and see if it gets removed. On the next one, I may try running the latest provisioning tool from the mhtech website instead of what came preloaded.

Ugh. I'll have to see if I can get the new one to run before whatever image is loaded kicks in.

I'm hoping to side line a machine to become a streaming box - either sending or receiving.

russellhltn wrote: Mon Sep 20, 2021 10:31 pmWhat a coincidence. I just got two of the several that will be coming to me.

Yeah, I got half of them on Friday and was relieved to see the rest show up today (Monday).

Any idea how big the provisioning tool is? I tried downloading it, but the connection was slow.

No Sophos when I was done, but I hadn't rebooted yet.

I noticed the OS is 1909, so it needs a feature update right off the bat as 1909 is no longer getting security updates.

Likewise, Chrome and Adobe needed an update immediately after being installed.

russellhltn wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 12:54 am Any idea how big the provisioning tool is? I tried downloading it, but the connection was slow.

No Sophos when I was done, but I hadn't rebooted yet.

I noticed the OS is 1909, so it needs a feature update right off the bat as 1909 is no longer getting security updates.

I recently received a new Dell replacement PC for one of our wards. The provisioning tool associated with the installed image (Also 1909) was as described by russellhltn. It was necessary to install the latest W10 version 21H1. At the moment I’m not at my usual computer to check on the size of the provisioning tool. I will update this later today!

russellhltn wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 12:54 am Any idea how big the provisioning tool is? I tried downloading it, but the connection was slow.

I downloaded it, but looking at the "1903" in file name, I'm not getting a good feeling it's any better than what shipped with the new PCs. Here are the details:

3.0.7_1903_Small.exe 1,428,991,928 bytes (1.33GB)

russellhltn wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 12:54 am No Sophos when I was done, but I hadn't rebooted yet.

It didn't show up for me until after a reboot towards the very end. Oh, and Sophos is still here after the 2nd overnight period.

russellhltn wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 12:54 am I noticed the OS is 1909, so it needs a feature update right off the bat as 1909 is no longer getting security updates.

Likewise, Chrome and Adobe needed an update immediately after being installed.

Yep. I'm starting to wonder if installing the software a la carte might be faster/easier in the long run. Does the tool to put the PC's under management, also create the dandc89 user account, if it's not there? That would be the only deal breaker that I could see of going a la carte.

Mikerowaved wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 10:47 am Does the tool to put the PC's under management,

I'm pretty sure it does.

Mikerowaved wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 10:47 amalso create the dandc89 user account, if it's not there?

The install process runs under that account. It's already there.

Don't bother downloading the provisioning tool from mhtech, it's the same version that's on the new PC's.

C:\ProgramData\LDSProvision\ReadMe.txt has the version info of "3.0.7 1903".

Guess I'll update Windows, then try a la carte.

I imagine there's a bunch going on in the background. I'll just run the provisioning tool and update everything.

russellhltn wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 1:27 pm I imagine there's a bunch going on in the background. I'll just run the provisioning tool and update everything.

Yep, wise decision. I tried to piece together the software needed, but key things were still left out that the provisioning tool took care of. At least now I can strongly suggest to those considering it, that that path isn't recommended.

I need to find a better way to update the machines. It takes way too long for them to update themselves. I'm thinking about seeing if I have 20H2 somewhere and manually install it to jump start things. If I download it now, it's likely to be 21H1, which wouldn't be the worst idea ever.

I have successfully done that, by downloading and installing the 21H1 image from Microsoft!

russellhltn wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 1:24 am I need to find a better way to update the machines. It takes way too long for them to update themselves.

I've got them all running in parallel with 1 monitor and a wireless keyboard/touchpad combo from Logitech. Every day I move the HDMI cable and Logitech dongle down the line to check for further updates and reboot as needed.

russellhltn wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 1:24 amI'm thinking about seeing if I have 20H2 somewhere and manually install it to jump start things. If I download it now, it's likely to be 21H1, which wouldn't be the worst idea ever.

Yep, the Media Creation Tool is still stuck on 21H1.

russellhltn wrote: I'm hoping to side line a machine to become a streaming box - either sending or receiving.

I think this would be an ideal solution to the missing satellite dish problem.

lajackson wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 2:54 pm

russellhltn wrote: I'm hoping to side line a machine to become a streaming box - either sending or receiving.

I think this would be an ideal solution to the missing satellite dish problem.

I did exactly this a few weeks ago with an old clerk computer. Also put in a SSD and additional ram. Customised for webcasting/streaming!

lajackson wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 2:54 pm

russellhltn wrote: I'm hoping to side line a machine to become a streaming box - either sending or receiving.

I think this would be an ideal solution to the missing satellite dish problem.

I think the Lenovo M70 series fits that spot just nicely. I've got two being replaced. I don't know for sure, but I strongly suspect they'll miss their shipment to the recyclers.

russellhltn wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 3:18 pm

lajackson wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 2:54 pm

russellhltn wrote: I'm hoping to side line a machine to become a streaming box - either sending or receiving.

I think this would be an ideal solution to the missing satellite dish problem.

I think the Lenovo M70 series fits that spot just nicely. I've got two being replaced. I don't know for sure, but I strongly suspect they'll miss their shipment to the recyclers.

I just happened to have two recently replaced Dell clerk computers. Took the memory out of one, plus replaced the HDD with an SSD to make a stable system.

I'm not sure at what point it happened, but the first computer I prepped installed Sophos. Worse, I can't disable the services. It seems to have additional hardening.

I just have to update/reboot/see if it goes away.

I started a second computer. Installing 20H2 right after provisioning was agonizingly slow, but over all seemed to be much faster than trying to do it normally. So far, no Sophos on that one. I'll have to see what happens. In this case, I installed the newer management software right away. I hoped it would either update or get a newer config file. But BES Client service seems to have disappeared. I'll have to see if that comes back.

russellhltn wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 1:54 am I'm not sure at what point it happened, but the first computer I prepped installed Sophos. Worse, I can't disable the services. It seems to have additional hardening.

Yep. Ran into that myself. I'll call support on Monday and see if they can disable it from their end.

russellhltn wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 1:54 amI just have to update/reboot/see if it goes away.

No luck [yet] after rebooting daily for 4-5 days.

russellhltn wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 1:54 amI started a second computer. Installing 20H2 right after provisioning was agonizingly slow, but over all seemed to be much faster than trying to do it normally. So far, no Sophos on that one.

It showed up on mine after everything was done and I rebooted. I'm attempting to upgrade everything to 20H2 before running the provisioning tool. Is that what you already tried?

Mikerowaved wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 8:20 am I'm attempting to upgrade everything to 20H2 before running the provisioning tool. Is that what you already tried?

No, I was letting the tool run, and then upgrade. That's more or less what my existing machines have done.

Since you're probably going to talk to them before I do, you might remind them that if they didn't renew the license for clerk machines, they're installing unlicensed software. Maybe that will motivate a fix.

russellhltn wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 12:59 pm...if they didn't renew the license for clerk machines, they're installing unlicensed software.

I don't follow. Which software is unlicensed?

Mikerowaved wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 1:35 pm

russellhltn wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 12:59 pm...if they didn't renew the license for clerk machines, they're installing unlicensed software.

I don't follow. Which software is unlicensed?

Sophos. If they haven't renewed the license, then they are violating the license by installing it. I'm hoping the legal angle will add some urgency.

russellhltn wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 1:43 pmSophos. If they haven't renewed the license, then they are violating the license by installing it. I'm hoping the legal angle will add some urgency.

They might use Sophos elsewhere and have an enterprise-type account, getting charged per device it's installed on.

Have you seen Sophos appear yet? If it's not showing up in your system tray, take look at services.msc.

Sophos didn't appear on the second machine, but it might not have "baked in" long enough to get the order. Installing 20H1 from disk really shortened the amount of time it had to be on and connected.

The first machine still has it.

I called GSD to see what could be done. They suggesting using add/remove programs. But to do that, I have to disable the anti-tamper. To do that, I need the anti-tamper password. To get that, I have to call GSD. Since the password is unique for each machine, they have to get it from the Sophos control panel. But that computer isn't showing up.

They suggesting letting it run for a few more days to see if it either uninstalls or shows up in their console.

russellhltn wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 1:44 am Sophos didn't appear on the second machine, but it might not have "baked in" long enough to get the order.

That's probably the case. It doesn't show up in the toolbar until later, but when checking the install timestamp, I saw it was installed pretty far back in the process.

russellhltn wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 1:44 amI called GSD to see what could be done. They suggesting using add/remove programs. But to do that, I have to disable the anti-tamper. To do that, I need the anti-tamper password. To get that, I have to call GSD. Since the password is unique for each machine, they have to get it from the Sophos control panel. But that computer isn't showing up.

Nice to know someone there knows how to access the Sophos console. That should simplify the uninstall process.

Mikerowaved wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 10:18 am Nice to know someone there knows how to access the Sophos console. That should simplify the uninstall process.

Well, the first guy I talked to knew how. The second guy I called a few days later didn't. I asked to have it escalated. We'll see what happens.

I just did 5 more machines today and letting them sit overnight for any additional updates. If they don't get Sophos, I'll deploy them. If I don't get a solution soon, I'm going to take my last machine and capture a factory image. Then I'll re-image my problem machine.

Any luck on your side?

russellhltn wrote: Sun Oct 03, 2021 12:40 amIf I don't get a solution soon, I'm going to take my last machine and capture a factory image. Then I'll re-image my problem machine.

Uhhh... not a good idea. I just sent you a PM regarding this a few minutes ago.

Mikerowaved wrote: Sun Oct 03, 2021 12:55 am

russellhltn wrote: Sun Oct 03, 2021 12:40 amIf I don't get a solution soon, I'm going to take my last machine and capture a factory image. Then I'll re-image my problem machine.

Uhhh... not a good idea. I just sent you a PM regarding this a few minutes ago.

Thanks for the warning, but I wouldn't be re-installing. I would be copying the pre-power up disk image. It should power up the same way as when it was unboxed.

I'm appreciating the image. Quit a bit of the usual MS fluff (such as games) are not present. Going with a stock Windows install would be a pain.

Correction, I set up 4 more machines, not 5. Of them, 3 installed Sophos overnight. Edit: another one installed. So now I'm only 1 for 6 in getting expected results.

I've stumbled upon another tool. Start > Microsoft Endpoint Manager > Software Center. It seems to have various features related to management. On all machines, "compliance" fails with some kind error.

Interestingly, the Apps available in Software Center is different on different machines. And it matches which ones got Sophos. Edit, this changed.

At this point, I'm getting the idea that the underlying issue may be that the system is confusing "Workforce" and "Local Unit" computers. Remember how we suddenly had to start adding ".\" in front of the login name?

I also got 6 new machines 2 weeks ago. Strangely they have not all had the same behavior, but eventually 5 of the 6 updated to 20H2. From what I see on the web I'll probably have to use the media creation tool to update the one that failed.

Odd how the provisioning tool only displays for 2 seconds and then starts, not time enough to even see what it's doing. I also thought it was odd that all the computers started up without hitting the power button but rather just by plugging them in. I assume that's configurable.

I saw one notice about a Sophos update but I'm not actually sure it was installed on all of them, I didn't see it listed anywhere, but I'll check them all again tonight and let them run to see if they have any updates. The sleep timer was set to 30 minutes, not enough time to get updates it seems.

At least these have SSDs.

craiggsmith wrote:Odd how the provisioning tool only displays for 2 seconds and then starts, not time enough to even see what it's doing.

If this is happening, I would call the Global Services Department. The first thing that should happen in the provisioning tool is for you to have a chance to select what type of installation you are doing. If the tool jumps directly in without giving you that option, you are getting either the default or the first choice on the list installed on your machine.

As far as I remember, neither one will work for an administrative computer in a clerk's office. That one was two-thirds the way down the last time I configured a new box.

And every box I have installed in the last two years stars u as soon as the power is connected. I learned to connect everything else first.

lajackson wrote: Wed Oct 06, 2021 6:31 pm

craiggsmith wrote:Odd how the provisioning tool only displays for 2 seconds and then starts, not time enough to even see what it's doing.

If this is happening, I would call the Global Services Department. The first thing that should happen in the provisioning tool is for you to have a chance to select what type of installation you are doing. If the tool jumps directly in without giving you that option, you are getting either the default or the first choice on the list installed on your machine.

I think you misunderstood. There IS an opportunity to select the type of environment the PC is going into from a dropdown list. It's after that, as part of the automated setup, that a screen briefly flashes that has checkmarks on different options to be installed; probably based on the previous environment selection. It would be nice to be able to interact with this screen, but it comes and goes too quickly.

For example, most of the applications the tool installs are outdated versions. It would be nice to keep those from installing, since they're going to be manually reinstalled anyway with updated versions.

Mikerowaved wrote: Wed Oct 06, 2021 9:25 pm

lajackson wrote: Wed Oct 06, 2021 6:31 pm

craiggsmith wrote:Odd how the provisioning tool only displays for 2 seconds and then starts, not time enough to even see what it's doing.

If this is happening, I would call the Global Services Department. The first thing that should happen in the provisioning tool is for you to have a chance to select what type of installation you are doing. If the tool jumps directly in without giving you that option, you are getting either the default or the first choice on the list installed on your machine.

I think you misunderstood. There IS an opportunity to select the type of environment the PC is going into from a dropdown list. It's after that, as part of the automated setup, that a screen briefly flashes that has checkmarks on different options to be installed; probably based on the previous environment selection. It would be nice to be able to interact with this screen, but it comes and goes too quickly.

For example, most of the applications the tool installs are outdated versions. It would be nice to keep those from installing, since they're going to be manually reinstalled anyway with updated versions.

Sorry I wasn't clear. Yes, I can select the type of install, it is the screen after that which shows what is being installed that is too quick to do anything with. In the old days we could select and unselect things on that screen.

I've left all 6 machines on all night for 3 nights in a row. Only 2 of the machines installed Sophos, and that was the first evening. So I called the help desk about those and the other machine that wouldn't update to 20H2. They told me simply to uninstall Sophos, which it wouldn't let me do. So then they said to disable the services, which it also wouldn't let me do. So then we tried that under the support account with no success. Which matches what I've read here. So then they told me the only option was to reimage the machines, which is what they told me for the one that wouldn't update as well.

So I thought I would try the factory reset option first instead of a full reinstall. When they came back up it required a church employee email address; I used to work for the church so used my old one. It took it but then had me log in to my church account, at which point it returned an error, but gave me the option to skip. I then had to set up a user and I was in. It still had 20H2; I then ran the provisioning tool. It ended up with a few things it didn't have before. I let it sit for a couple hours and it installed Sophos again.

So I guess I will try a full reinstall, but I'm afraid Sophos will install again. I assume this is a BigFix configuration issue? I asked the help desk to escalate the ticket to the appropriate group for that but they said I just had to do a reinstall.

Yes, it appears to be a configuration issue. I have 5 of 6 new machines that installed Sophos. A direct quote from the person handling it is "We found the computer is in the Workforce Sub Estate and not the Meetinghouse Sub Estate in Sophos".

I'm still working my contacts to see what it will take to fix things.

Mikerowaved wrote:I think you misunderstood. There IS an opportunity to select the type of environment the PC is going into from a dropdown list. It's after that, as part of the automated setup, that a screen briefly flashes that has checkmarks on different options to be installed; probably based on the previous environment selection. It would be nice to be able to interact with this screen, but it comes and goes too quickly.

For example, most of the applications the tool installs are outdated versions. It would be nice to keep those from installing, since they're going to be manually reinstalled anyway with updated versions.

Okay. I understand now. I would like to be able to access that screen and make/unmake some selections, as well.

However, my experience as been different. An older box installed Sophos, but the newer ones did not when i installed 8 of them last year. For the older box, I pulled the current provisioning tool from the Church website and ran it again. Sophos did not install that time.

Of course, the provisioning tool has probably been updated/broken/changed since I used it last. And obviously the GSD does not know that it takes special administrative privileges to uninstall Sophos that even they do not have working remotely. There was an update from headquarters that took Sophos off of the other computers in my stake that were not swapped out last year.

The provisioning tool is some type of a batch file. Is it possible there is a keyboard shortcut that might pause it when the selection screen comes up, Ctrl-P or something? Yeah, I am old school. Everything moves too fast for me nowadays.

OK, if you hit the spacebar when the selection screen is visible, it will hold it there indefinitely and allow you to make changes. The ONLY changes I recommend is to uncheck Chrome, Adobe Reader, and LibreOffice, since they are outdated versions that have to be updated anyway. Those choices are all on the first screen. When done, hit the "Begin Install" link in the upper left and it will continue. Don't touch anything other settings! (And no, Sophos is NOT one of the choices available in this menu to deselect. That would be FAR too easy! )

Speaking of LibreOffice, I tried with several PC's to get version 7.1.6 working, but without success. It runs its own "Safe Mode" version, but won't launch the full version. Apparently, there's some incompatibility with a new LibreOffice install and certain Windows 10 updates. Reinstalling doesn't help, nor do the dozens of possible solutions found on the Internet. The ONLY solution that worked for me was to install version 7.2.1. Whether over the older version, or as a fresh install, it just works. The reason I didn't go that route before is that 7.2.1 is NOT considered a tried and proven "stable" release, where as 7.1.6 is.

Mikerowaved wrote: Thu Oct 07, 2021 6:49 am The ONLY changes I recommend is to uncheck Chrome, Adobe Reader, and LibreOffice, since they are outdated versions that have to be updated anyway.

However, updating them is no big thing (and if forgotten is likely to do it automatically if given the time).

Likewise, installing an updated LibreOffice is the same as installing it overtop. I don't see much to be gained from stopping the older version.

What problems did you run into? I was able to install 7.1.6 with no issues, but didn't get to opening anything with it.

russellhltn wrote: Thu Oct 07, 2021 12:22 pm What problems did you run into? I was able to install 7.1.6 with no issues, but didn't get to opening anything with it.

When I double-clicked on the LibreOffice desktop shortcut, it would like start, then die, without so much as a popup. Same with trying to run it from the start menu.

Mikerowaved wrote: When I double-clicked on the LibreOffice desktop shortcut, it would like start, then die, without so much as a popup. Same with trying to run it from the start menu.

LibreOffice has a bug where the background process does not always stop when you close the last file. Just go into Task Manager and delete all of them. It happens most often when you save a large file, then close the file before the save is complete.

Once the first process hangs, you usually will see two more of them for each time you tried to open a new file.

Except I'm not trying to open a file, nor has it ever been run previously. Trying to run it after a fresh reboot doesn't help either, which would kill hung processes.

Mikerowaved wrote: Except I'm not trying to open a file, nor has it ever been run previously. Trying to run it after a fresh reboot doesn't help either, which would kill hung processes.

Well then, even this STS cannot help you, sorry.

Mikerowaved wrote: Thu Oct 07, 2021 6:49 am Speaking of LibreOffice, I tried with several PC's to get version 7.1.6 working, but without success. It runs its own "Safe Mode" version, but won't launch the full version. Apparently, there's some incompatibility with a new LibreOffice install and certain Windows 10 updates. Reinstalling doesn't help, nor do the dozens of possible solutions found on the Internet. The ONLY solution that worked for me was to install version 7.2.1. Whether over the older version, or as a fresh install, it just works. The reason I didn't go that route before is that 7.2.1 is NOT considered a tried and proven "stable" release, where as 7.1.6 is.

I ran into the same thing - but worse. 7.1.6 won't run. I can't repair, can't uninstall. I can't install 7.2.1 as it can't uninstall 7.1.6.

I'm stuck.

It doesn't seem to be related to Sophos as this happens on machines it's not running on. And it's happening on multiple machines that I didn't do much more than install updates.

lajackson wrote: Wed Oct 06, 2021 10:34 pm The provisioning tool is some type of a batch file. Is it possible there is a keyboard shortcut that might pause it when the selection screen comes up, Ctrl-P or something? Yeah, I am old school. Everything moves too fast for me nowadays.

Mikerowaved wrote: Thu Oct 07, 2021 6:49 am OK, if you hit the spacebar when the selection screen is visible, it will hold it there indefinitely and allow you to make changes. The ONLY changes I recommend is to uncheck Chrome, Adobe Reader, and LibreOffice, since they are outdated versions that have to be updated anyway. Those choices are all on the first screen. When done, hit the "Begin Install" link in the upper left and it will continue. Don't touch anything other settings! (And no, Sophos is NOT one of the choices available in this menu to deselect. That would be FAR too easy! )

Good to know, thanks!

russellhltn wrote: Fri Oct 08, 2021 1:28 am I ran into the same thing - but worse. 7.1.6 won't run. I can't repair, can't uninstall. I can't install 7.2.1 as it can't uninstall 7.1.6.

I'm stuck.

Ouch! I'll be putting 7.2.x on to the other PCs today. I'll let you know how it goes.

BTW, got the file. Thanks!

russellhltn wrote: Wed Oct 06, 2021 10:17 pm Yes, it appears to be a configuration issue. I have 5 of 6 new machines that installed Sophos. A direct quote from the person handling it is "We found the computer is in the Workforce Sub Estate and not the Meetinghouse Sub Estate in Sophos".

I'm still working my contacts to see what it will take to fix things.

So I did a full reinstall of Windows (21H1) and again it prompted for a church employee login, and again installed Sophos after the initial provisioning. It also installed Software Center, which we use at my company and from the offerings appears to be directed towards the workforce. So I'm pretty sure it's the same issue you are having. I'll call support again and see if I can get someone more helpful.

russellhltn wrote: Wed Oct 06, 2021 10:17 pm Yes, it appears to be a configuration issue. I have 5 of 6 new machines that installed Sophos. A direct quote from the person handling it is "We found the computer is in the Workforce Sub Estate and not the Meetinghouse Sub Estate in Sophos".

As a follow-up, this didn't automatically trigger an uninstall like it did before, but it did make a manual uninstall as simple as doing a standard uninstall from Apps & Features in Settings.

I believe the person who helped me was responding to an escalated ticket from my initial problem. I still have another 4 machines waiting for the same treatment.

I did a factory reset on the one whose Windows update failed, and this time it successfully updated to 20H2. But do you recommend I update all of them to 21H1 to avoid a unit having to do that later? It hasn't come up as a recommendation in the Windows update, but I can do a full reinstall with the Microsoft tool.

craiggsmith wrote: Fri Oct 08, 2021 10:49 am So I did a full reinstall of Windows (21H1) and again it prompted for a church employee login, and again installed Sophos after the initial provisioning. It also installed Software Center, which we use at my company and from the offerings appears to be directed towards the workforce. So I'm pretty sure it's the same issue you are having. I'll call support again and see if I can get someone more helpful.

The support person today said the behavior I am seeing with these two machines is because of a random beta-test they are doing, but he couldn't find the email with the solution. We'll see when they get back to me and what they say, but seems odd, the other explanation seems more plausible.

So it looks like all these machines get Software Center now. They didn't all have the same apps though, and not all look like meetinghouse computer apps, but maybe it's somewhat generic; I'll check them again later.

craiggsmith wrote: Fri Oct 08, 2021 3:05 pm But do you recommend I update all of them to 21H1 to avoid a unit having to do that later?

I don't know if it's recommended, but that's what I did.

russellhltn wrote: Wed Oct 06, 2021 10:17 pm A direct quote from the person handling it is "We found the computer is in the Workforce Sub Estate and not the Meetinghouse Sub Estate in Sophos".

I'm curious, did the PC(s) have to be behind a church firewall to be detected?

Mikerowaved wrote: Fri Oct 08, 2021 6:00 pm

russellhltn wrote: Wed Oct 06, 2021 10:17 pm A direct quote from the person handling it is "We found the computer is in the Workforce Sub Estate and not the Meetinghouse Sub Estate in Sophos".

I'm curious, did the PC(s) have to be behind a church firewall to be detected?

No idea. I did prep them on the meetinghouse network. Depending on what I was doing, it was either wired or wireless. Both seem to be considered "Liahona". As such, I'd assume this is a "phone home" situation and not "CHQ reaching out and touching" since the same 192.168 IPs are reused in each meetinghouse.

Note this was the machine that the first guy couldn't find. I'm thinking he was looking in the "meethinghouse" sub-group where I should have been, instead of searching the entire enterprise.

One of the oddities in my conversation with GSD is that many of my computers were "assigned" to the FM assistant. She orders the machines, but doesn't use them. I have to wonder if there's a misunderstanding of the purpose of that field that's behind the problem. (Sort of like how "head of household" isn't necessarily the child's legal guardian.)

Mikerowaved wrote: Fri Oct 08, 2021 5:15 pm

craiggsmith wrote: Fri Oct 08, 2021 3:05 pm But do you recommend I update all of them to 21H1 to avoid a unit having to do that later?

I don't know if it's recommended, but that's what I did.

I updated to 20H2 since that's what the computer wanted to do anyway. I wonder if 22H1 might be the magic to fix my LibreOffice issue.

russellhltn wrote: Fri Oct 08, 2021 7:01 pm I wonder if 22H1 might be the magic to fix my LibreOffice issue.

The one's I'm working on are all at 22H1 and none of them could run LO 7.1.6, After upgrading to 7.2.1, they all could run it without any issues.

russellhltn wrote: Fri Oct 08, 2021 6:32 pm I did prep them on the meetinghouse network. Depending on what I was doing, it was either wired or wireless. Both seem to be considered "Liahona". As such, I'd assume this is a "phone home" situation and not "CHQ reaching out and touching" since the same 192.168 IPs are reused in each meetinghouse.

I think that's the difference. I set mine up at home. On a church network, every 10 minutes the firewall passes any new machine names, MAC addresses, timestamps, and I'm sure other info they get from a DHCP request, back to CHQ to be logged. (You can see some of the info yourself when you select "Get Connected Devices" in TM.) Since all the church machines are supposed to be setup with unique names, they can be found on any church network. Yes, only IF they're looking in the right log!

russellhltn wrote: Fri Oct 08, 2021 6:32 pmOne of the oddities in my conversation with GSD is that many of my computers were "assigned" to the FM assistant. She orders the machines, but doesn't use them. I have to wonder if there's a misunderstanding of the purpose of that field that's behind the problem. (Sort of like how "head of household" isn't necessarily the child's legal guardian.)

I can see that causing a problem, I'll find out tomorrow when I take my first batch to a church building to be installed. Unfortunately, I might not be able to talk to the right people at GSD until Monday.

It looks like the provisioning tool on the website has been updated. No idea if it makes a difference or not.

russellhltn wrote: Sat Oct 09, 2021 12:49 am It looks like the provisioning tool on the website has been updated. No idea if it makes a difference or not.

Grrr... Just as I'm finishing up!

Edit: So it's only 281MB? OK, I'll try it on this last PC and see what's different.

Mikerowaved wrote: Sat Oct 09, 2021 1:50 am OK, I'll try it on this last PC and see what's different.

At that point I'm sure there's something mis-configuring machines on the back end. It's possible it's the provisioning tool. But that's a fairly wild guess with no supporting data.

Not much different, so far, except it doesn't install Adobe Reader or LibreOffice. Time will tell whether Sophos shows up or not.

The three I got that worked out of the box have LibreOffice 6.2 (which works fine). Not sure when they changed the provisioning tool but none of the ones I re-imaged this week have it.

craiggsmith wrote: Sat Oct 09, 2021 2:10 pm The three I got that worked out of the box have LibreOffice 6.2 (which works fine).

While that will work for most, LibreOffice 7.x has some nice improvements that are worth having.

LibreOffice update:

7.1.6 will not run under Windows 10 20H2 or 21H1. You can't uninstall 7.1.6 (and consequently can't upgrade LibreOffice) under 20H2. But you CAN upgrade 7.1.6 if you're running 21H1. And 7.2.1 does work under 21H1.

I suppose you could stay with the 6.x version if LibreOffice that comes with the new computers, but it seems to be out of date. I'm not sure as it would get any security updates.

So, if you're going to update, and if you're going to update Windows (which will eventually happen anyway) you need to go with 7.2.1 and Windows 10 21H1

Mikerowaved wrote: Sat Oct 09, 2021 7:18 pm

craiggsmith wrote: Sat Oct 09, 2021 2:10 pm The three I got that worked out of the box have LibreOffice 6.2 (which works fine).

While that will work for most, LibreOffice 7.x has some nice improvements that are worth having.

russellhltn wrote: Sat Oct 09, 2021 11:06 pm LibreOffice update:

7.1.6 will not run under Windows 10 20H2 or 21H1. You can't uninstall 7.1.6 (and consequently can't upgrade LibreOffice) under 20H2. But you CAN upgrade 7.1.6 if you're running 21H1. And 7.2.1 does work under 21H1.

I suppose you could stay with the 6.x version if LibreOffice that comes with the new computers, but it seems to be out of date. I'm not sure as it would get any security updates.

So, if you're going to update, and if you're going to update Windows (which will eventually happen anyway) you need to go with 7.2.1 and Windows 10 21H1

Thanks. I'll ask each ward if they use it and then install/upgrade or uninstall as necessary. Last I heard none of them were actually using it, but maybe they are now.

So do you recommend installing Acrobat Reader or uninstalling it? I know browsers can display PDF files, although not always as well or with all the options, but it seems Adobe updates can be a pain.

Also, I see that App & Browser Control Reputation-based protection is turned off. Is there a reason for that?

Also, the computer isn't set up to lock the screen, is that an issue? I realize MLS has its own password, and confidential documents aren't supposed to be stored on it.

Lastly, what you setting the sleep time to? The come configured as 30 minutes, but I wonder if that's sufficient to get updates.

craiggsmith wrote: Sun Oct 10, 2021 8:17 am Thanks. I'll ask each ward if they use it and then install/upgrade or uninstall as necessary. Last I heard none of them were actually using it, but maybe they are now.

If they're not using it, then I'd wonder what they are using and if it's properly licensed to the ward/church. Personally owned software is not permitted.

craiggsmith wrote: Sun Oct 10, 2021 10:31 am So do you recommend installing Acrobat Reader or uninstalling it? I know browsers can display PDF files, although not always as well or with all the options, but it seems Adobe updates can be a pain.

Depending on the provisioning tool, it comes installed. I don't know as the browsers can handle fillable forms. It does seem to try to update itself in the background with some degree of success.

craiggsmith wrote: Sun Oct 10, 2021 10:31 amAlso, the computer isn't set up to lock the screen, is that an issue? I realize MLS has its own password, and confidential documents aren't supposed to be stored on it.

I set them up with a screen saver that kicks in at 15 minutes and requires a password to unlock. It's a privacy/security issue in case someone wonders off with MLS open.

craiggsmith wrote: Sun Oct 10, 2021 10:31 amLastly, what you setting the sleep time to? The come configured as 30 minutes, but I wonder if that's sufficient to get updates.

A sharp-eyed forum member noticed the old Policy document has been updated an is now called Technology Standards. One of the interesting changes:

4.2.4  Where possible, computers with MLS should be left in standby or sleep mode and should not be powered off.  This will enable Church headquarters to manage the machine and ensure updates and patches are properly distributed.  

As such, I don't think sleep is an issue for updates. I personally dislike sleep or blanking the screen since someone may think the computer is off and kill power. Hibernate is fine. Hybrid Sleep is probably fine. My personal plan was to set up the computers to hibernate after 6 hours and to set the BIOS to wake up at 11 PM every Wednesday.

russellhltn wrote: Sun Oct 10, 2021 12:16 pm

craiggsmith wrote: Sun Oct 10, 2021 10:31 am So do you recommend installing Acrobat Reader or uninstalling it? I know browsers can display PDF files, although not always as well or with all the options, but it seems Adobe updates can be a pain.

Depending on the provisioning tool, it comes installed. I don't know as the browsers can handle fillable forms. It does seem to try to update itself in the background with some degree of success.

Thanks, I'll install it and LibreOffice.

russellhltn wrote: Sun Oct 10, 2021 12:16 pm

craiggsmith wrote: Sun Oct 10, 2021 10:31 amAlso, the computer isn't set up to lock the screen, is that an issue? I realize MLS has its own password, and confidential documents aren't supposed to be stored on it.

I set them up with a screen saver that kicks in at 15 minutes and requires a password to unlock. It's a privacy/security issue in case someone wonders off with MLS open.

That's what I was worried about.

russellhltn wrote: Sun Oct 10, 2021 12:16 pm

craiggsmith wrote: Sun Oct 10, 2021 10:31 amLastly, what you setting the sleep time to? The come configured as 30 minutes, but I wonder if that's sufficient to get updates.

A sharp-eyed forum member noticed the old Policy document has been updated an is now called Technology Standards. One of the interesting changes:

4.2.4  Where possible, computers with MLS should be left in standby or sleep mode and should not be powered off.  This will enable Church headquarters to manage the machine and ensure updates and patches are properly distributed.  

As such, I don't think sleep is an issue for updates. I personally dislike sleep or blanking the screen since someone may think the computer is off and kill power. Hibernate is fine. Hybrid Sleep is probably fine. My personal plan was to set up the computers to hibernate after 6 hours and to set the BIOS to wake up at 11 PM every Wednesday.

Good to know, and good idea, thanks.

craiggsmith wrote: Fri Oct 08, 2021 3:23 pm

craiggsmith wrote: Fri Oct 08, 2021 10:49 am So I did a full reinstall of Windows (21H1) and again it prompted for a church employee login, and again installed Sophos after the initial provisioning. So I'm pretty sure it's the same issue you are having. I'll call support again and see if I can get someone more helpful.

The support person today said the behavior I am seeing with these two machines is because of a random beta-test they are doing, but he couldn't find the email with the solution. We'll see when they get back to me and what they say, but seems odd, the other explanation seems more plausible.

Interestingly Sophos disappeared off the one machine I hadn't done a full reinstall on yet. So I did a reset on the one that I had, and so far it hasn't installed Sophos. I sort of wish it would revert back to the original configuration though, as now it has a bunch of apps that can't be uninstalled (such as xbox). I know there is a way to get rid of those, I did it on the ones I am replacing, but it's not critical.

russellhltn wrote: Sat Oct 09, 2021 11:06 pm LibreOffice update:
You can't uninstall 7.1.6 (and consequently can't upgrade LibreOffice) under 20H2.

Update: You can if you run the installer "As Administrator". By default, you can't do that with a MSI file. The simplest workaround is to launch CMD "As Administrator" and then use you MS-DOS skills to run the installer.

It's possible that some of the other problems could be fixed the same way, but decided to stick with 21H1/ and LibreOffice 7.2.

Stranger and stranger. Out of the 6 new computers I'm prepping, only one seemed to provision properly (as far as Sophos goes). I discovered today that instead installing Sophos on the new machine, the new Sophos got installed on the OLD computer that was going to be replaced (Same computer name).

And yes, there's a clear difference between the old Sophos that used to be on ward clerk machines and the new one.

Feedback from the Technical Product Manager: "CHQ Desktop Engineers are aware of the issue where Sophos and other apps not intended for Clerk computers are installed during the provisioning process. A fix is in the works and no user interaction will be required to remove these applications."

I'd add that you probably need to make sure the computer are on and connected so they can "phone home" and act on the new instructions.

By the end of the month, new computers will ship with 20H2. 21H1 isn't yet certified with their environment.

russellhltn wrote: Sun Oct 10, 2021 12:16 pm

craiggsmith wrote: Sun Oct 10, 2021 8:17 am

russellhltn wrote: Sat Oct 09, 2021 11:06 pm LibreOffice …

Thanks. I'll ask each ward if they use it and then install/upgrade or uninstall as necessary. Last I heard none of them were actually using it, but maybe they are now.

If they're not using it, then I'd wonder what they are using and if it's properly licensed to the ward/church. Personally owned software is not permitted.

These days when most clerk or executive secretary tasks can be done from home anytime during the week, what use cases would require a word processor or spreadsheet program on the clerk computer at all?

These days when most clerk or executive secretary tasks can be done from home anytime during the week, what use cases would require a word processor or spreadsheet program on the clerk computer at all?

If members bring in talks etc to be printed. It helps to have a good word processor available!

russellhltn wrote: Tue Oct 12, 2021 2:15 pm Feedback from the Technical Product Manager: "CHQ Desktop Engineers are aware of the issue where Sophos and other apps not intended for Clerk computers are installed during the provisioning process. A fix is in the works and no user interaction will be required to remove these applications.

I was hoping the new provisioning tool would set some flag preventing Sophos from installing, but [sigh] such is not the case. Just saw my test machine install Sophos overnight.

russellhltn wrote: Tue Oct 12, 2021 2:15 pm By the end of the month, new computers will ship with 20H2. 21H1 isn't yet certified with their environment.

Maybe they're looking broader at 21H1 than just clerk PC's, because MLS should be able to run on just about any platform and that's the only app I see of real concern for clerk's offices.

sbradshaw wrote: Tue Oct 12, 2021 4:20 pm These days when most clerk or executive secretary tasks can be done from home anytime during the week, what use cases would require a word processor or spreadsheet program on the clerk computer at all?

All I know is I see a ton of Write and an few Calc documents when I replace computers. Program, agendas, directives, instructions, etc.

Sure, a number of things CAN be done from home, but especially if there's any printing involved, that's not necessarily how people want to do them.

russellhltn wrote: Tue Oct 12, 2021 6:03 pm All I know is I see a ton of Write and an few Calc documents when I replace computers. Program, agendas, directives, instructions, etc.

I do too. Some sensitive docs are password protected, which is pretty easy to do with LibreOffice.

russellhltn wrote: Tue Oct 12, 2021 6:03 pm

sbradshaw wrote: Tue Oct 12, 2021 4:20 pm These days when most clerk or executive secretary tasks can be done from home anytime during the week, what use cases would require a word processor or spreadsheet program on the clerk computer at all?

All I know is I see a ton of Write and an few Calc documents when I replace computers. Program, agendas, directives, instructions, etc.

Sure, a number of things CAN be done from home, but especially if there's any printing involved, that's not necessarily how people want to do them.

I'll see when I set these new ones up, but historically most people were using Google docs and printing wirelessly from their devices.

craiggsmith wrote: Sun Oct 10, 2021 9:01 pm

craiggsmith wrote: Fri Oct 08, 2021 3:23 pm

craiggsmith wrote: Fri Oct 08, 2021 10:49 am So I did a full reinstall of Windows (21H1) and again it prompted for a church employee login, and again installed Sophos after the initial provisioning. So I'm pretty sure it's the same issue you are having. I'll call support again and see if I can get someone more helpful.

The support person today said the behavior I am seeing with these two machines is because of a random beta-test they are doing, but he couldn't find the email with the solution. We'll see when they get back to me and what they say, but seems odd, the other explanation seems more plausible.

Interestingly Sophos disappeared off the one machine I hadn't done a full reinstall on yet. So I did a reset on the one that I had, and so far it hasn't installed Sophos. I sort of wish it would revert back to the original configuration though, as now it has a bunch of apps that can't be uninstalled (such as xbox). I know there is a way to get rid of those, I did it on the ones I am replacing, but it's not critical.

So support called me back and said what I saw was something that got installed on 2000 machines, and they gave me a specific email address and login to use when setting them up. But now that they are set up and Sophos is off I'm not sure I want to go back and start over.

But is there any way to go back to 20H2 on the machine I did the full reinstall of Windows on? I'm surprised the recovery option doesn't go back to the original Windows version.

At this point, the only way I know of to "go back" is to take an image off a new system that hasn't been turned on yet.

russellhltn wrote: Tue Oct 12, 2021 9:30 pm At this point, the only way I know of to "go back" is to take an image off a new system that hasn't been turned on yet.

Ok thanks.

The only machine I was able to install LibreOffice 7.2 on was the one I reinstalled Windows on (to 21H1). All the others, both those that I didn't touch and those that I did a system recovery on, error out with a 2502/2503 error.

craiggsmith wrote: Tue Oct 12, 2021 10:01 pm The only machine I was able to install LibreOffice 7.2 on was the one I reinstalled Windows on (to 21H1). All the others, both those that I didn't touch and those that I did a system recovery on, error out with a 2502/2503 error.

You might try running CMD.com "As administrator" and then running the LibreOffice installer from CMD.

craiggsmith wrote: Tue Oct 12, 2021 10:01 pm The only machine I was able to install LibreOffice 7.2 on was the one I reinstalled Windows on (to 21H1). All the others, both those that I didn't touch and those that I did a system recovery on, error out with a 2502/2503 error.

I had no problems installing LibreOffice 7.2.x on a fresh Windows 10 install updated to 20H2. LO 7.1.x was a different story.

Mikerowaved wrote: Tue Oct 12, 2021 10:48 pm I had no problems installing LibreOffice 7.2.x on a fresh Windows 10 install updated to 20H2. LO 7.1.x was a different story.

I stand corrected. LibreOffice 7.2.x couldn't install overtop of LO 7.1.x on 20H2 unless I used the "Run as" trick. That was because it couldn't uninstall 7.1.x.

It's possible that "Run As" would allow 7.1 to install and work on 20H2 and 21H1. But I did not test that.

I'm thinking that going to 21H1 might not have been a good idea. What I forgot is that the Windows Update points to a church server. Until that church server starts supporting 21H1, you might not be getting any automatic security updates.

At least, I'm not getting any automatic updates from this last Patch Tuesday. I have to click the "check Microsoft" link. That might mean that I'll be stuck doing security updates manually for awhile.

I also noticed that the Software Center is supporting deployment of LibreOffice 7.1.6.2 x64

russellhltn wrote: Tue Oct 12, 2021 10:14 pm

craiggsmith wrote: Tue Oct 12, 2021 10:01 pm The only machine I was able to install LibreOffice 7.2 on was the one I reinstalled Windows on (to 21H1). All the others, both those that I didn't touch and those that I did a system recovery on, error out with a 2502/2503 error.

You might try running CMD.com "As administrator" and then running the LibreOffice installer from CMD.

That actually worked, I was getting pessimistic but have a new outlook on life now. These machines are finally ready to deploy.

So yeahhh I'm our ward clerk and we got a new computer with a new USB drive dropped off in the office sometime Saturday with absolutely zero instructions on what I'm supposed to do to migrate the old to the new. Interestingly they also said I should use the new box to ship back the old computer which the computer alone occupies more volume than the entire box for the new computer...

Is there any sort of instructions anywhere on how to migrate? I'm working 60-70 hours a week plus school full time, sitting at the meetinghouse for hours trying to figure it out just isn't a luxury I have.

ryanmercer wrote: Tue Oct 19, 2021 12:59 pm Is there any sort of instructions anywhere on how to migrate?

Not that I remember seeing. But I have my own procedures.

Does your stake not have a stake Technology Specialist?

russellhltn wrote: Tue Oct 19, 2021 1:17 pm

ryanmercer wrote: Tue Oct 19, 2021 12:59 pm Is there any sort of instructions anywhere on how to migrate?

Not that I remember seeing. But I have my own procedures.

Does your stake not have a stake Technology Specialist?

If they do they weren't involved with this. Edit: I just looked and we apparently have 2, one is in my ward which I do not recall having seen them since at least 2019.

Our stake clerk, not a tech person at all, was sent all the computers for our stake and dropped them off for the ward clerks to handle and forwarded us an email from an "Administrative Assistant – Finance/R&I" with a church domain email address:

This email contains info you should know about when installing the new CPUs for the LOCATIONS REDACTED

*Please save the boxes that the new computers were shipped in. You will need to use these to package the Old CPUs for shipping back to Church HQs.

Please send me this info on the old and new computers:

1.Inventory info for the OLD and NEW Computers (Make, Model, Serial Number, Asset Tag #, yr manufactured). Identify which ward or unit was/will be using the old and new computers.

2. Wipe the hard drive from the OLD computers and pack it in the boxes from the new computers. (Only send the CPU and its own cord in the box).

3. Send me the following info (that is needed to generate the FEDEX shipping label):

a. Dimensions of the boxes (Length, Width, Height) – differentiate between box 1, box 2, etc. when you send me the info. I will need to know the Make/Model/SN/Asset Tag# for which computer is in which box.

b. Weight of each box with CPU in it.

c. Unit name that computer belonged to.

d. Date you will be dropping of the box at a FEDEX drop off location.

4. I will then generate the prepaid FEDEX label(s) and email them to you. You will attach to the box and drop off at a nearby FEDEX drop off location on the date your specified.

Please dispose of the old cables, keyboards, and mice.

Thank you!

Note they refer to the computers as CPUs...

Yes. As a STS, that's what I get from FM. I told them I'd need box and packing and they got me that.

I need instructions on how to migrate everything though, I've been ward clerk for the better part of a year and don't even have an MLS account on our computer as our last clerk just went AWOL but fortunately, the finance clerk does and has been in his calling for over a decade. I have no idea what I need to migrate over or how to set up MLS or anything.

So we have 2 stake technology specialists listed, I contacted the first and he said he hasn't had that calling for years and gets contacted monthly for help, the other I'm fairly certain doesn't even live in our stake anymore. I'm guessing the 2 other wards we share a building with are going to be in a similar position of not being sure what to do.

Alright I've done some contacting and this is where I stand:

- We have no stake technology specialist, the two on file have not had the roles for quite some time and a replacement has yet to be called.

- The stake clerk has no technical knowledge, he was asked to arrange delivery of the units to each unit and referred me to the administrative assistant from the email


I am going to be driving into town Friday evening and unboxing the new machine to see what state it is currently in. I'm hoping it is mostly set up, and presumably with the current clerk computer password already, and that I simply plug it in and plug into the nic and she's ready to at least operate.

What I could use from the hive mind:

- Assuming MLS is installed, how do I migrate MLS? Is there a help article for that?

- Is there anything other than MLS ward clerk computers are supposed to have? I do everything via LCR at home and my finance clerk, a retired engineer, handles all the finance fiddly bits so I don't actually have any idea what else the computer might typically be used for.

According to this post, the need for MLS is rapidly disappearing.

The Help Center article Setting Up a New Clerk Computer covers the basics on what to expect.

Personally, and speaking as a STS who needs to keep people happy and likes to avoid complaints, this is what I do:

Copy:

• C:\data-backup (only 3 years plus current, although even this much is debatable)
• C:\ProgramData\LDS Church
• Desktop
• Documents
• Downloads
• Pictures
• Music
• Videos

Some of these areas are likely empty, but again, I'm just making sure. I don't want people complaining that they lost something. Since this is a machine you use, feel free to leave things behind.

Take a screenshot of the old Desktop and use it to arrange the icons on the new desktop so everything is where everyone expects it.

ryanmercer wrote: I am going to be driving into town Friday evening and unboxing the new machine to see what state it is currently in. I'm hoping it is mostly set up, and presumably with the current clerk computer password already, and that I simply plug it in and plug into the nic and she's ready to at least operate.

Save yourself a trip unless you have read everything at the Help Center and are ready to make the change. Do not plug in the new computer until you have an hour or two to set it up. There is no rush. There is no reason to hurry. Do not begin to make the change until you understand the process and are ready to take the time do it.

If possible, you should get yourself added to MLS on the existing computer. It will make the transition easier. To complete MLS installation on the new computer you or someone else on the old account will have to sign in to MLS. Otherwise, you will not be able to restore the backup. Since you are the clerk, you should be an MLS Administrator.

Go to the Help Center and start reading. Read all of the sub-links. The instructions there are actually pretty good.

Personally, I would take the new computer home to set it up (if you have adequate Internet service). Then I would make the swap at the clerk's office.

The old computer keeps working until you ask for the security reset. I wait until I am ready to physically swap out the machines before I ask for it.

You cannot get a security reset on weekends.

The new computer will start from scratch and run a provisioning file that will require your inputs. The MLS setup will require you to know your unit number and the stake unit number. You will need to make some Windows settings. When I do this at home, it takes me about an hour plus whatever time it takes for Windows to update.

As you have already seen, you will use the new computer box to recycle the old computer after you have wiped its drive. When you are ready to send back the old computer, the FM Group should email you a FedEx label to use. I usually wait a week or two before wiping the old drive in case the unit is missing a file they feel is important.

lajackson wrote: Tue Oct 19, 2021 4:01 pm The old computer keeps working until you ask for the security reset.

Actually, the old MLS will continue to send/receive until the new computer has had made a successful send/receive.

However, any send/receive will cancel the security reset. So if you do the reset, and then old machine does a S/R, you'll need to do another security reset to get the new machine to work.


I would agree you need to be added to MLS. However, I think you need to have two users available to allow that to happen. I don't remember if they both have to be admins or not. It's possible you'll have to get support involved to have to added to MLS.

lajackson wrote: Tue Oct 19, 2021 4:01 pm As you have already seen, you will use the new computer box to recycle the old computer after you have wiped its drive. When you are ready to send back the old computer, the FM Group should email you a FedEx label to use. I usually wait a week or two before wiping the old drive in case the unit is missing a file they feel is important.

Well, that's what the instructions said but it isn't going to happen. The new computer's box is physically smaller than the old computer in every dimension. It sounds like our computer is 10+ years old and skipped a 5 year replacement cycle, it's a proper tower not one of these slim things they sent us (roughly the volume of an institute manual).

Sounds like there's just going to be a lot of waiting then. I'm working 60-70 hours a week and will be probably well into next year (international freight) and in what little free time I have have Pathway.

Alright, thanks to both of you. I'll just have to lock myself in the office some Sunday and skip all of my meetings to get it mostly done I guess.

ryanmercer wrote: Tue Oct 19, 2021 6:07 pm The new computer's box is physically smaller than the old computer in every dimension.

Agreed. The new computer is a "Tiny" form factor and our old PCs were "Small". Good luck trying to stuff a "Small" into a "Tiny" box.

That's where I went back to FM and they decided to supply boxes and packing maternal.

lajackson wrote: Tue Oct 19, 2021 4:01 pm You cannot get a security reset on weekends.

Is this still true? I was told by an HQ support representative a few months ago, that except for a small window on Sundays, a security reset could be requested any time.

danpass wrote: Wed Oct 20, 2021 12:01 pm

lajackson wrote: Tue Oct 19, 2021 4:01 pm You cannot get a security reset on weekends.

Is this still true? I was told by an HQ support representative a few months ago, that except for a small window on Sundays, a security reset could be requested any time.

Yeah, they can be reset by most anyone at GSD, even after hours and weekends. If you grab the entire C:\ProgramData\LDS Church folder and paste it to the new machine, no reset is required. Just did a bunch for my stake with no issues.

Mikerowaved wrote: Wed Oct 20, 2021 12:10 pm

danpass wrote: Wed Oct 20, 2021 12:01 pm

lajackson wrote: Tue Oct 19, 2021 4:01 pm You cannot get a security reset on weekends.

Is this still true? I was told by an HQ support representative a few months ago, that except for a small window on Sundays, a security reset could be requested any time.

Yeah, they can be reset by most anyone at GSD, even after hours and weekends. If you grab the entire C:\ProgramData\LDS Church folder and paste it to the new machine, no reset is required. Just did a bunch for my stake with no issues.

Thanks! Good to know. I'm just beginning the process with our stake.

On the hardware, we seem to be going in a different direction than we were. I just received five replacements, Lenovo M70q, as described in the original post on this subject.

These Celeron processors have a CPU mark of 2310. They are replacing three M700's with i3, and a CPU mark of 3628; one M710q, with i5 and CPU mark of 4715; and one M720q, with an i5, and a CPU mark of 7657. While processing power isn't everything, it is important when the graphics are integrated. I doubt the SSD and double thread in the new Celeron will make up the slack.

Will start doing the change-outs next week, and checking the performance.

I don't think I've ever seen an i3, much less an i5 for a ward computer.

How critical is graphics for rendering web pages - that's about all a typical clerk computer will be tasked with.

I am confused by posts 91 and 92 in this topic.

Post 91 refers to a link https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/hel ... r?lang=eng with instructions for setting up a new clerk computer. They are date 9Sep 2021.

Post 92 refers to a different link, same subject, https://abn.churchofjesuschrist.org/hel ... k-computer. These instructions are undated. The print icon doesn't work and the three step by step topics at the bottom of the page have broken links.

I have used the instructions in post 91 in the past. Have they been superceded by the instructions referenced in post 92? Or vice versa? They are similar, but not identical.

Thanks

If I go into the Help Center and navigate the subjects, I get the first link.

The second link starts with "abn" - usually a sign that some experimentation is taking place. I'd say it's ignorable.

Just want to close the loop. The Lenovo M710q and M720q tiny desktops have i5 processors; and the M700 has an i3 processor. The new M70q tiny desktop has a celeron processor. The M70q has a solid-state drive and 8 gig of memory ( versus standard drive and 4 gig in the older desktops).

I ran Novabench software on the old and new desktops. The new machines have less processing power (about 1/3), but the increased memory (double) and solid-state drive (7 times faster) result in a higher overall benchmark score (about 12%). Graphics processing is about the same. The new system actually seems a little quicker. The new Samsung monitor may also speed up presentation a little.