A couple of comments:bretbassett wrote:The attached document describes how to use church system audio to enhance the quality of your broadcasts.
I looked into the idea of a Bluetooth transmitter, but the inexpensive ones I looked at had reviews that indicated a delay long enough to cause lip sync issues. The more expensive ones might work, but it was above my price point for testing. Too bad. Assuming your computer/phone would take a Bluetooth connection, it looked like a possible plug and play solution.CalS201 wrote:If you prefer a wireless connection,
It depends on the laptop. If it has line-in (rare) you could get by with just a 3.5mm to 3.5mm cable.sunshinesdad wrote:I was wondering if the connection is similar if you are using a laptop?
Thanks very much, I didn't realize you could use it for that purpose, the schematic helps. But I'm confused how the volume control would have any impact on the levels between two input jacks.CalS201 wrote:Here is another way of reducing the line-level signal from record output jack to mic-level that is required by most laptops and iphones. It also presents the proper impedance to the computer for it to recognize the external mic signal. It uses the EJ8 (crab box) that many bldgs already have.
See attached PDF.
Attachment #1 contains parts references for the EJ8 configuration. However, you should also consider the simplified interface in attachment #2 if you have a laptop with one TRRS audio jack, or attachment #3 for iphone interface.strj500 wrote: Question on Use EJ8 to get mic-level for laptop and iphone.pdf instructions, can someone detail the cables/connectors used in the document? I know we've got the crabbox, I also think we have a 3.5mm audio cable... other pieces, I'm not too certain what they are... a detailed list of the items would be great. (amazon links/product links also good)
Referring to the schematic. The TOTAL resistance of the EJ8's 1K pot is affected by the transformer & resistor connected to the arm of the pot - which changes the input divider ratio.craiggsmith wrote: I didn't realize you could use it for that purpose, the schematic helps. But I'm confused how the volume control would have any impact on the levels between two input jacks.
It's line out. Line in has a volume control knob.arpitman wrote:Are the red and white RCA audio system line out or in? I would like to use them as INPUT to my mobile phone if they are line out from the audio.
Please check the first post in this thread.arpitman wrote:Can you recommend a cable that will take the red / white RCA and input into a standard laptop or phone 4 section connector (I think that is the TRRS)?
arpitman wrote:I am not sure where you are referring to. I read the PDF a couple times and see lots of information about the plug type cables with links, but I don't see anything about an RCA to TRRS.
I also did a search while on the post itself and don't find anything when searching for RCA. Sorry to be a pain, but could you point it right out to me or better yet provide a copy of a link going to the product like the other links?
There's a number of posts describing the failure or success with attempts at this.craneps wrote:Why not try using a comtek or listen hearing device. Connected by 3.5 mm , male at both ends between it and your laptop?
32 ohms is fine for the receivers, but may be a bit low for the record out. I'm not sure of the exact specss, but it's being driven by a 600 ohm line level system though a transformer. I think the transformer is more isolation then step up or down. And it's fewer parts. I just used a 120K and 1.2K resistors in a L pad arrangement.BrandonBates wrote:FYI after some research I built a "simple" DC isolating pi attenuating pad to let an assisted listening device see a 32 ohm load and a phone see a 2k microphone (to trigger the phone to see a microphone) with a 40db attenuation to turn line to mic. ... Going to still make a few more cables but I've got 50' headphone extension cables to connect to the recorder out line level, but I'll use this adapter. Assisted listening devices were just too noisy (might try to find a better tuner, wireless is nice, it's just 72.1MHz)
Code:
RECORD DIY IPHONE/IPAD
OUT JACK ATTENTUATOR (V+)
|
(?? K)
[V1] [V2] [C1] [R2] [V3] |
300mv-)|(---< [T]RS <------(-10uf+)---(22K)------> TRR[S] >---[V4]
)|( | |
600 )|( (22K) [R1] [R3](2.2K)
ohm )|( | |
-----)|(---< TR[S] <----------------------------> TR[R]S >---
Nice ASCII art. I'm stealing that to illustrate my DIY cable as soon as I check some things.CalS201 wrote:Code:
RECORD DIY IPHONE/IPAD OUT JACK ATTENTUATOR (V+) | (?? K) [V1] [V2] [C1] [R2] [V3] | 300mv-)|(---< [T]RS <------(-10uf+)---(22K)------> TRR[S] >---[V4] )|( | | 600 )|( (22K) [R1] [R3](2.2K) ohm )|( | | -----)|(---< TR[S] <----------------------------> TR[R]S >---
Does the front of the "record out" jack say "Microphone level"? There is a version that can be ordered from EMTech, but I've not seen it installed in a church building before.drepouille wrote:The signal was not strong enough. So I moved the cable from the "line level" input jack to the microphone input jack on the desktop. It worked perfectly!
Line level into consumer "mic in" will not physically damage anything. But it will "blow out" the sound.drepouille wrote:I wanted to try this way back in July when I began broadcasting Sacrament meeting, but I was scared that the "line level" signal would blow out my microphone jack. It didn't.
The iPhone/iPad devices have a maximum microphone level of about 30mv so a 20db pad (divide by 10) correctly reduces the 300mv signal from the record out jack.russellhltn wrote:
One thing I'm puzzling over is everyone seems to be using a 20dB attenuation while I found I had to use 50dB to avoid distortion or clicking on my Android.
Nit-pick, 0VU for consumer line-out is −10 dBV, or 0.316Vrms, 0.447Vpeak. Not 0.300V.CalS201 wrote:The iPhone/iPad devices have a maximum microphone level of about 30mv so a 20db pad (divide by 10) correctly reduces the 300mv signal from the record out jack.
russellhltn wrote:Nice ASCII art. I'm stealing that to illustrate my DIY cable
I never equated 0.300V to 0VU or -10dbVrussellhltn wrote:Nit-pick, 0VU for consumer line-out is −10 dBV, or 0.316Vrms, 0.447Vpeak. Not 0.300V.CalS201 wrote:The iPhone/iPad devices have a maximum microphone level of about 30mv so a 20db pad (divide by 10) correctly reduces the 300mv signal from the record out jack.
russellhltn wrote:But if the iPhone distorts at 35, that's not leaving you any overhead for peaks. (difference between VU and peak reading meters/peak light) I'd think you'd want at least an additional 10dB so to have some headroom. Especially since we don't know if there's any compressors or limiters in the chain.
While we want a good solid signal, what we really need is something our apps can work with comfortably without having to turn up the gain to the point we start noticing the noise floor.
I will try to explain why a 20db (divide by 10) pad works better than a 40db pad (divide by 100) .russellhltn wrote:At the risk of flogging a horse, here's an article, VU AND PPM AUDIO METERS – AN ELEMENTARY EXPLANATION...............The article suggests mapping 0 VU to -20dbFS. Which means you'd need a 40dB attenuator.
Code:
RecordOut iPhone Android Android
Jack iPad 1 2
mvFS mvFS mvFS
325/650mv------ peak--------------* *---------- 50 35 18
| | * *
| | 35rms 25 13
| | * *
| |
57 113rms* * *
| | -----------------------------------------
| | * * *
| |
| | * * *
| |
| | * *
| | * *
| | * *
| |
| --Speaking overly loud 2" from pulpit mic,
| saying "test, test, one, two, three"
|
--Estimated normal loud speaking at normal distance
, then nitpicking 
, now flogging horses 
. What has happened to these forums? Maybe I need to contact the forum administrator. CalS201 wrote:Here is another way of reducing the line-level signal from record output jack to mic-level that is required by most laptops and iphones. It also presents the proper impedance to the computer for it to recognize the external mic signal. It uses the EJ8 (crab box) that many bldgs already have. It perfroms the same functions as the "Headset Buddy Line-Level Adapter" https://www.amazon.com/Headset-Buddy-Li ... B00OAW85ZG
See attached PDF.
Yes, any and all of the 1/4" and 1/8" jacks on the EJ8 can be used as inputs or as outputs, but combining 2 outputs is only needed when you have to connect to a phone or laptop with TRRS jack that needs to see a particular impedance(about 1-2K ohm).snihipali99 wrote:Thinking of trying this out, so to clarify those 1/4" plugs can be used as an output if they are both used and combined?
Have you checked and lowered the USB Audio Adapter MIC "gain" in the laptop's ControlPanel/Sound settings? Doing so may solve your distortion issue. Having said that, the EJ8 lashup will lower the RecordOut jack signal level. Just connect the RecordOut Jack to one of the 1/8" EJ8 jacks (with a TS or TRS cable) and connect the USB Audio Adapter MIC jack to one of the 1/4" (you don't need to combine 2 jacks) EJ8 jacks(with a TRS cable). The signal at the USB adapter should then be less than 1/6 of the RecordOut level.snihipali99 wrote:I have 2 buildings with the same setup using the record out to a usb audio adapter for the computer, streaming using OBS. One building which is actually older the sound is clear and no issues. The other building there is some distortion and seems to be too loud. I tried using OBS audio filters which help some but if speakers get too close to the microphone or talk loud then the distortion can be heard.
You can use the EJ8 to input music to the PA system "OR" use it to output the PA system to your laptop. You cannot do both at the same time with one EJ8.snihipali99 wrote: I want to use the EJ8 box to project music as some wards don't have a pianist and play music instead which I have it setup to do. But trying to see if I could use it as well to control the record out for the one building with audio issues.
Is it possible that the building sound system itself is overdriving the record out line?snihipali99 wrote:The other building there is some distortion and seems to be too loud.
Thanks, I ordered this to try out. I was able to test with the EJ-8 and the sound was great, hopefully this attenuator will perform the same.CalS201 wrote:An alternative to the EJ8 lashup is the https://www.amazon.com/Movo-MV-RC300-Mi ... B073HR6SY4.
Drilling down to the correct sound setting can be confusing on a Windows computer. You are looking for the "INPUT" settings of the "USB Audio Device". If your computer has a built-in audio device then the "USB Audio Device" is a 2nd device, so make sure you select/confirm which device you are adjusting. For example, my laptop has 3 audio input devices and 2 audio output devices:snihipali99 wrote:On another note the building where the audio is good, it is running a laptop on Windows 10 while the building where it is not is a desktop running Windows 7. I tried going through the sound settings in the control panel for the computer running Windows 7 and the levels don't seem to have an affect on the sound. It made me think that maybe Windows 10 or the laptop is better at controlling the sound.
This forum post about the USB adapter and settings on the ControlPanel may be helpful to you.CalS201 wrote:Drilling down to the correct sound setting can be confusing on a Windows computer. .............................................snihipali99 wrote:On another note the building where the audio is good, it is running a laptop on Windows 10 while the building where it is not is a desktop running Windows 7. I tried going through the sound settings in the control panel for the computer running Windows 7 and the levels don't seem to have an affect on the sound. It made me think that maybe Windows 10 or the laptop is better at controlling the sound.
Selecting the wrong one might explain why your adjustments have no effect.
Other suggestions since the splitter version is out of stock?CalS201 wrote: There is one product that performs both functions , "Headset Buddy Line-Level Audio Adapter" https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00OAW85ZG or https://www.amazon.com/dp/B078HGFS3Z.
If you don't need the headphone out: https://www.amazon.com/Headset-Buddy-Li ... B00OAW85ZGgknutti wrote:Other suggestions since the splitter version is out of stock?
Thanks for everyone's input. The computer is a Dell and there is a Dell audio setting that was set to increase any microphone input by 10db, so I was able to disable that and use the computer control panel sound setting.CalS201 wrote:This forum post about the USB adapter and settings on the ControlPanel may be helpful to you.
viewtopic.php?f=27&t=37779#p216128
The organ in older buildings is not tied into the building sound system at all. You are probably hearing the organ speakers through the pulpit microphone.sbpope wrote:The only issue we have is the organ does not sound good. I know they are tied into the building's sound system, but I am not sure if they are routed to the record out.
To get sound for the organ to sound better in our chapel (where we are using zoom) we found and did the following and had great success. https://support.zoom.us/hc/en-us/articl ... inal-soundsbpope wrote:Hello,
We are using the record out from the building system, and that is working great. The only issue we have is the organ does not sound good. I know they are tied into the building's sound system, but I am not sure if they are routed to the record out. What has worked for you?
Thanks!
lajackson wrote:The organ in older buildings is not tied into the building sound system at all. You are probably hearing the organ speakers through the pulpit microphone.sbpope wrote:The only issue we have is the organ does not sound good. I know they are tied into the building's sound system, but I am not sure if they are routed to the record out.
In newer buildings, the organ output is sent into the sound system only when the overflow curtains are open. If you are entirely in the chapel and the overflow is closed, the organ normally is not feeding the sound system.
Everything going through the building sound system should be going to the record out jack, including the organ when it is feeding the system, i.e., the overflow is open.
I'd think the easiest way is to open the overflow into the cultural hall, turn on the sound system and have someone play the organ. See if you can hear it over the speakers in the cultural hall. (Assuming there's no organ speakers in the cultural hall.)jacobstimpson wrote:How would one go about determining if it is or is not?
russellhltn wrote:I'd think the easiest way is to open the overflow into the cultural hall, turn on the sound system and have someone play the organ. See if you can hear it over the speakers in the cultural hall. (Assuming there's no organ speakers in the cultural hall.)jacobstimpson wrote:How would one go about determining if it is or is not?
In my buildings, I'm able to open the podium and get access to the plug for the podium mic. I'd disconnect it (with the sound system off) and run the organ test again.jacobstimpson wrote:So I "sort of" tested that... Meaning I did it and I heard the organ... but I assumed the sound was coming via the microphone in the chapel not a direct integration into the sound system.
I'd look at the 3.5mm connector(s). Phone jacks of all sizes are rather notorious for poor connections. You could try rapidly inserting/removing as well as rotating it to try and get a clean metal-on-metal connection. You could also try wiping the plug with course paper, such as a paper bag or paper towelrademakerg wrote:We are having audio troubles with the sound volume going up and down with not other changes. We are using the Larix app and proper adapter connections to the building sound system and I phone. Any thoughts on what the problem could be?
russellhltn wrote:There's a number of posts describing the failure or success with attempts at this.craneps wrote:Why not try using a comtek or listen hearing device. Connected by 3.5 mm , male at both ends between it and your laptop?
If the computer input is a "headset" (TRRS plug), it won't work. Some receivers require a load to turn on that the computer will not provide. Some of those who have had success report the audio isn't as high quality as the direct connection. Others have been happy with the results.
russellhltn wrote:In my buildings, I'm able to open the podium and get access to the plug for the podium mic. I'd disconnect it (with the sound system off) and run the organ test again.jacobstimpson wrote:So I "sort of" tested that... Meaning I did it and I heard the organ... but I assumed the sound was coming via the microphone in the chapel not a direct integration into the sound system.
Although, if you can hear the organ clearly, that does suggest there's a direct connection. It would be pretty soft if it was just the podium mic picking it up.
Then it appears the organ is not integrated. I think only the most recent chapel in my stake has the organ connected to the sound system. Most of them probably don't have an extra output to feed the sound system. When our new stake organ arrived last year, it lacked that option.jacobstimpson wrote:I tested it and when the mic is unplugged I get nothing in the priesthood/relief society rooms which have direct integration and I also had nothing in the zoom meeting I had running.
. If I control for that, it might be a good option.This last sentence is not true.lajackson wrote:The organ in older buildings is not tied into the building sound system at all. You are probably hearing the organ speakers through the pulpit microphone.sbpope wrote:The only issue we have is the organ does not sound good. I know they are tied into the building's sound system, but I am not sure if they are routed to the record out.
In newer buildings, the organ output is sent into the sound system only when the overflow curtains are open. If you are entirely in the chapel and the overflow is closed, the organ normally is not feeding the sound system.
Everything going through the building sound system should be going to the record out jack, including the organ when it is feeding the system, i.e., the overflow is open.
Well, I did say "should". This is interesting though, because would it not be technically difficult to put the organ sound into the system to get to the speakers and then take it out again on the way to the audio output jacks? That would require some clever wiring. I wonder why they would do that.daveg123 wrote:This last sentence is not true.lajackson wrote:Everything going through the building sound system should be going to the record out jack, including the organ when it is feeding the system, i.e., the overflow is open.
The organ feed (if the organ is attached to the sound system at all) is never fed to the audio output jack near the sacrament table/clerk's desk, regardless of any overflow doors that might be open in the building.
Unfortunately there is no simple way to get organ audio in most of our buildings.
Not clever wiring - a different output on a programmable mixer.lajackson wrote:Well, I did say "should". This is interesting though, because would it not be technically difficult to put the organ sound into the system to get to the speakers and then take it out again on the way to the audio output jacks? That would require some clever wiring. I wonder why they would do that.
Ah, clever computing. I should have known.russellhltn wrote:Not clever wiring - a different output on a programmable mixer.
Lucky you.Mikerowaved wrote:Our stake center is currently getting the whole audio/video upgrade package and included with that is adding an audio isolation transformer to the organ and feeding a portion into the sound system. Our organ did not have that capability before.
I'd suggest reading the Using a Comtek for sound when broadcasting Sacrament thread.
Can you tell me a little more about how you adjusted the volume? Is that through zoom?Wattsuk wrote: Mon Oct 11, 2021 10:39 am Revisiting this topic as we needed to improve the sound from the organ into the broadcast.
Currently feeding audio out of chapel sound system to Mevo by 3.5mm TRS.
When hymns were being played, the 3.5mm was removed from the mevo so that the camera's internal mics would pick up the ambient sound in the chapel. Not great and if there's a loud singer close to the camera it drowns out the organ almost entirely.
After much messing around, we located a dynamic mic on a stand approx 8-10 inches from the organ's loudspeaker. There is an XLR mic input just a few feet from here, so easy to run the cable. Adjusted the volume and the sound quality through the broadcast is brilliant. I was sceptical but the performance of this solution far exceeds my expectation.
Food for thought if anyone else is still having organ challenges.
The Allen LD-34B we have does have a connection for audio out (XLR). It is inside the cabinet. Use something thin and flat and slide it under the top on the left toward the back to release the latch. Then the top swings up. With the top up you can release the back panel easily. Our organ came with short XLR microphone cable in the jack and all ready to connect to the sound system. I think this is a standard setup for the Allen LD-34B that FM orders.failproof wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 4:59 pm My other two buildings have the Allen AP-22 and the Allen LD-34B model organs, which don't have the aux-out ports.
What other options might be provided? Given that webcasting for shut-ins has become a permanent feature, I'd think some kind of accommodation would be part of the standard. FM doesn't always ask (or at least ask the right people) before going ahead with changes.RyanGard1977 wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 1:13 pm Just a FYI, that record out jack is not being included in new sound system upgrades so don't expect it to be around when and if your system ever gets upgraded. Many buildings were never equipped with it in the first place. You'll likely have other options when a new system is installed.
When they did one of our buildings about a year before the covid pandemic hit, they put in RCA audio out and RCA audio in w/volume knob, ethernet, and an XLR input on the side of the pulpit. That building never had the 1/8" record out jack anywhere that I was aware of, unless it was completely hidden under the sacrament table. When they did our Stake Center during covid, right about the same time we started webcasting sacrament meetings, they just rerouted the 1/8" TS jack from the sacrament table to the side of the pulpit and did not add RCA audio out. But they also put multiple audio in/out options in the rack in our library, including HDMI out for webcasting, etc. Unfortunately we find we rarely use the stuff in the rack because all the wards prefer to do their webcasting from the chapel. It appears though, that they don't really have a single standard, and it probably depends on who they contract to do the work. They were, however, willing to work with us when we asked for a few things not planned for, so it seemed like they could pretty much do anything we needed within reason.russellhltn wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 1:28 pm What other options might be provided? Given that webcasting for shut-ins has become a permanent feature, I'd think some kind of accommodation would be part of the standard. FM doesn't always ask (or at least ask the right people) before going ahead with changes.
I'm guessing the hum is coming from a ground loop. I'd suggest looking for an isolation transformer so you can couple the audio to your laptop without the noise reducer.bkharmon1 wrote: Wed Mar 01, 2023 1:38 pm Right now, it seems to get good voice quality without the humming, Ineed to use the noise reducer.
CalS201 wrote: Wed Mar 01, 2023 8:21 pm The Ground Loop Noise Isolator you purchased from Amazon is composed of two cheap audio isolation transformers (one for left channel and one for right channel). It is designed to remove "60hz hum" typically caused by a ground loop - it will be only moderately effective. It does NOT cause your audio to cut in and out. The fact that you have a hum issue is all the reason you need to turn in a FIR work request to have a professional grade audio isolator installed. In the past, the FM group would install a RDL TX-1A https://www.amazon.com/Radio-Design-Lab ... B01D8QDFI6 to mitigate hum issues. They are also available used on ebay for a lot less.
There are several audio settings on your Windows laptop that WILL cause voice and music to cut in and out - all in an attempt to emphasize/clarify speech and minimize background noises. These setting are ON by default. You should TURN THEM ALL OFF. On the computer's SETTINGS / SYSTEM / SOUND / Input / Device Properties / AdditionalDeviceProperties / MicrophoneEnhancements screen you should make sure NoAudioEnhancements is ON, EchoCancellation is OFF, and NoiseReduction is OFF. These settings may be buried on a different menu on your laptop - just keep looking until you find them.
OBS has similar noise reduction settings - TURN THEM ALL OFF.
If you use ZOOM, make sure UseOriginalAudio is set to ON.
It would be helpful to watch and listen to your audio but the youtube link doesn't seem to work.To try and show what is happening, I created this video: https://youtu.be/iC9164BM7ek of the different tests I have run.
[Moderator note] You only have a fixed time to edit posts. I went ahead and updated your other post with the correct YT link.bkharmon1 wrote: Thu Mar 02, 2023 8:23 am Geeze. I'm sorry. The correct link is here: https://youtu.be/PKTaovqiGX4
I tried to edit the original post to correct it for any future readers, but am no longer able to...
Wattsuk wrote: Thu Mar 02, 2023 9:42 am I may have missed something but have you tried the testing with and without the AC power adapter connected to your laptop?
That's usually the quick temporary fix for these issues. Ground loop issues when AC adapter connected and then eliminated when the laptop is purely on battery power.
I have been tasked with getting our organ music to be broadcast on zoom. I currently use a wireless mic with transmitter at the podium and it work fabulous for our speakers. But with Easter Sunday coming up, we have lots of music happening and my bishop wants to hear the organ and congregation during hymns. HELP!! We are in an older building.Wattsuk wrote: Mon Oct 11, 2021 10:39 am Revisiting this topic as we needed to improve the sound from the organ into the broadcast.
Currently feeding audio out of chapel sound system to Mevo by 3.5mm TRS.
When hymns were being played, the 3.5mm was removed from the mevo so that the camera's internal mics would pick up the ambient sound in the chapel. Not great and if there's a loud singer close to the camera it drowns out the organ almost entirely.
After much messing around, we located a dynamic mic on a stand approx 8-10 inches from the organ's loudspeaker. There is an XLR mic input just a few feet from here, so easy to run the cable. Adjusted the volume and the sound quality through the broadcast is brilliant. I was sceptical but the performance of this solution far exceeds my expectation.
Food for thought if anyone else is still having organ challenges.
I see three options.derrickfulkerson wrote: Sat Apr 29, 2023 5:21 pm We need a simple, turnkey solution for handling organ music.
This is what we do for units in our stake center. Turn on the encoder. Hold the meeting. Turn off the encoder. No need for laptops or other devices. I reset the YouTube event each week to reuse the same settings, so they do not even need to reprogram the encoder during the week.derrickfulkerson wrote: Sun Apr 30, 2023 8:00 am I’ve thought about going back to the Teradek and streaming to YouTube . . .
I’d like to be able to do this but the output from our mounted camera is in the first overflow and there are no audio inputs or outputs there. For stake Conference we run a snake cable back to the overflow to get audio (and send audio), but that is not feasible for weekly meetings.lajackson wrote: Sun Apr 30, 2023 8:49 amThis is what we do for units in our stake center. Turn on the encoder. Hold the meeting. Turn off the encoder. No need for laptops or other devices. I reset the YouTube event each week to reuse the same settings, so they do not even need to reprogram the encoder during the week.derrickfulkerson wrote: Sun Apr 30, 2023 8:00 am I’ve thought about going back to the Teradek and streaming to YouTube . . .
Our pulpit microphone does a fairly decent job of picking up the organ sound.
