Tech Forum Archive

Amateur Radio and Emergency Communications

162 postsstarted by russellhltn 101,710 viewsoriginal topic

russellhltn
Community Administrator
#1
OK, this isn't exactly sexy "high tech" but it's still technology. Yet this seem to be the first post to even contain the words "Amateur Radio".

So what's the scoop? Is there any official plan? I've heard of it being used in some individual Stake plans. I've heard word of it in time past for broader plans, but have lost contact. If the Church is still doing something with this, this site seems like an ideal way to distribute information and recruit volunteers.
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WelchTC
Senior Member
#2
RussellHltn wrote:OK, this isn't exactly sexy "high tech" but it's still technology. Yet this seem to be the first post to even contain the words "Amateur Radio".

So what's the scoop? Is there any official plan? I've heard of it being used in some individual Stake plans. I've heard word of it in time past for broader plans, but have lost contact. If the Church is still doing something with this, this site seems like an ideal way to distribute information and recruit volunteers.
In our stake, we combined with the city to sponsor some amateur radio classes. I've been told by a friend who is an active amateur radio operator that the Church does have and encourage a network of operators for emergency purposes. He used to go to a local store house once a month for radio checks, etc.

Tom
thedqs
Community Moderators
#3
In my current stake, each building has been outfitted with a VHF/UHF/HF radio shack for emergency communication. Each ward has a couple operators (I am one of them) that take care of certian parts of the neighborhood and in reporting to the stake. The stake can then send to church leaders through radio if phone access is not possible. (I am told (meaning this is not fact and should not be passed around as such) that SLC has an emergency communications that uses Amateur Radio to communicate when other forms don't work.)

In the previous stake I lived in each family had those low power walkie talkies and they would report to their assigned amateur operator contant who would then check in with the stake emergency communications net control. They did a few simulations throughout the year and it worked. The only problem was the walkie talkies sometimes wouldn't get through (but that is because they cannot use high power except in a true emergency)

So here are two methods of two stakes that have implemented Amateur Radio.
- David
russellhltn
Community Administrator
#4
tomw wrote:I've been told by a friend who is an active amateur radio operator that the Church does have and encourage a network of operators for emergency purposes. He used to go to a local store house once a month for radio checks, etc.
Operative word being "used to"? I never got a sense that it was highly organized, but lately I've gotten a sense that there is nothing more then just local effort. If the church at a area/national level wants to do something with this, this forum sure seems like a good place to be doing it. Any chance on getting them on board? Or for that matter local efforts that want to share ideas.
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russellhltn
Community Administrator
#5
thedqs wrote:The only problem was the walkie talkies sometimes wouldn't get through (but that is because they cannot use high power except in a true emergency)
I'm guessing they were FRS/GMRS units. When I looked at it, I think the letter of the law was that a someone who wasn't licensed for GMRS couldn't legally use a GMRS-capable radio. Simply self-restricting to the FRS modes only wasn't technically kosher. That said, I'd agree that enforcement is non-existent. It ranks right up there with using WinZIp past the 30 day trial or using the "free for personal use" Ad-Aware at work or in a FHC. :rolleyes:
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thedqs
Community Moderators
#6
RussellHltn wrote:I'm guessing they were FRS/GMRS units. When I looked at it, I think the letter of the law was that a someone who wasn't licensed for GMRS couldn't legally use a GMRS-capable radio.
Yes they were FRS/GMRS units. Though for the exercise they used the FRS bands (and a half of a watt). And the law is that GMRS is restricted to those that have a GMRS license except in cases of emergency as determined by the FCC.
RussellHltn wrote:Operative word being "used to"? I never got a sense that it was highly organized, but lately I've gotten a sense that there is nothing more then just local effort. If the church at a area/national level wants to do something with this, this forum sure seems like a good place to be doing it. Any chance on getting them on board? Or for that matter local efforts that want to share ideas.
Most of the emergency preparedness exercises using amateur radio are done with the local law enforcement so I just think that it got moved over to that, since the operators would be mostly invloved with that side during an emergency.
- David
Zlhii-p40
New Member
#7
The fact is that SLC does have emergency broadcasting equipment
some of the antenna's are located on top of the Church Office Building. The Church also has a department just for emergency's.



thedqs wrote:In my current stake, each building has been outfitted with a VHF/UHF/HF radio shack for emergency communication. Each ward has a couple operators (I am one of them) that take care of certian parts of the neighborhood and in reporting to the stake. The stake can then send to church leaders through radio if phone access is not possible. (I am told (meaning this is not fact and should not be passed around as such) that SLC has an emergency communications that uses Amateur Radio to communicate when other forms don't work.)

In the previous stake I lived in each family had those low power walkie talkies and they would report to their assigned amateur operator contant who would then check in with the stake emergency communications net control. They did a few simulations throughout the year and it worked. The only problem was the walkie talkies sometimes wouldn't get through (but that is because they cannot use high power except in a true emergency)

So here are two methods of two stakes that have implemented Amateur Radio.
thedqs
Community Moderators
#8
Well now we know that it is fact. Thanks for the info.
- David
Zlhii-p40
New Member
#9
happy to help.
russellhltn
Community Administrator
#10
I figured there was still something there, but I guess it's a "closed" group that isn't looking for help from techie members. Otherwise I think they'd be interested in this forum in getting the message out.

But that's quite the opposite of most of other Emergency Communication groups I know of. Most are chronically short-staffed in the number of people available to them. Add to the fact that in any given emergency someone might not be available. Those kinds of things never check people schedules.
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thedqs
Community Moderators
#11
Sorry, but which group is a "closed" group? At least all the local hams are always trying to get new people involved in their activities and to get their license.
- David
russellhltn
Community Administrator
#12
thedqs wrote:Sorry, but which group is a "closed" group?
As a church-wide function.

But I may have been too harsh. While communications in an emergency does flow along the lines of authority; the ideas, methods, training and technical issues frequently benefit from peer-to-peer networking. It seems to me that that should be happening and that this is the logical place to do it.

Tom, what are the chances of getting the proper folks involved here?
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thedqs
Community Moderators
#13
Oh, ok. As for some ideas that stakes can do, have a emergency training day, stake wide that is scripted where the entire emergency plans are put into operation and practiced. For a realistic emergency, you can believe that phones will be jambed or not working. So try a simulation without phones in the Stake. At least that will show you where you need to improve.
- David
WelchTC
Senior Member
#14
RussellHltn wrote:As a church-wide function.

But I may have been too harsh. While communications in an emergency does flow along the lines of authority; the ideas, methods, training and technical issues frequently benefit from peer-to-peer networking. It seems to me that that should be happening and that this is the logical place to do it.

Tom, what are the chances of getting the proper folks involved here?
I'll do some asking around.

Tom
russellhltn
Community Administrator
#15
thedqs wrote:Oh, ok. As for some ideas that stakes can do, have a emergency training day, stake wide that is scripted where the entire emergency plans are put into operation and practiced.
We had one awhile back where each of the families were to take their 72 hour kit and drive to the chapel where the kit would be looked over. Each ward was to report to the SP how many participated. The idea was to find out how many families really do have a 72 hour kit and if it is adequate.
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russellhltn
Community Administrator
#16
tomw wrote:I'll do some asking around.
Thanks!

(message too short it says..... <grumble>)
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thedqs
Community Moderators
#17
RussellHltn wrote:We had one awhile back where each of the families were to take their 72 hour kit and drive to the chapel where the kit would be looked over. Each ward was to report to the SP how many participated. The idea was to find out how many families really do have a 72 hour kit and if it is adequate.

The one I was refering to would require some acting. What would happen is the stake would assign roles to some. Some to be dead, some to be incapacitated, etc. There would be little stories for each. Everyone would be ready but most wouldn't know the script. You would then execute the "disaster". This is also what local law enforcement does with the Amateur Radio operators about once a quarter here in Provo.
- David
TAR-p40
New Member
#18

Emergency Services

Ham links for Emergency's
http://www.arrl.org/FandES/field/pscm/sec1-ch1.html
http://www.three-peaks.net/radio01.htm#emcomm
http://www.three-peaks.net/radio01.htm
http://www.xmission.com/~uarc/
http://www.xmission.com/~uarc/ repeater links
http://www.ucares.org/modules.php?op=mo ... file=index
http://www.qrparci.org/content/view/3035/119/lang,no/

By NB5C
thedqs
Community Moderators
#19
Thanks for the links.
For those in WA, ARES is here:
http://www.wastateares.org/ From here you can get to most other WA based emergency channels.

National RACES:
http://www.races.net

Links to local chapters of Military Affiliate Radio System
http://www.dxer.com/mars.html
- David
russellhltn
Community Administrator
#20
Well, if we're posting links, http://www.arrl.org/cce/courses.html#ec001 is a link to ARRL's Ecom class. It ain't cheap, but it's a good class written by guys who have "been there" and speak from experience, not theory.

Standard disclaimers apply (not a church sponsored/recommended/connected site or program)

- Graduate EC-001, EC-002, EC-003/Mentor
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ejarvi-p40
New Member
#21

Amateur Radio ...

thedqs wrote:Thanks for the links.
For those in WA, ARES is here:
http://www.wastateares.org/ From here you can get to most other WA based emergency channels.

National RACES:
http://www.races.net

Links to local chapters of Military Affiliate Radio System
http://www.dxer.com/mars.html
I was recently released as an ERC specialist in my ward, here's a little of what I learned along the way:
  • MARA NW lists several LDS friendly net frequencies and times in WA and OR that are great for station optimization and fellowship at http://www.maranw.net/nets.php
  • ARRL membership is worth the money even if it's just the 'blind' rate with no magazine - make sure to sign up for email updates on what's happening in your area and around the country.
  • Volunteering with your local ARES/RACES chapter can be very rewarding.
  • Even if you're not ready for ARES quite yet, if you're called as an ERC specialist for your ward or stake you may want to seriously consider taking ARRL EmComm Training (Levels 1-3). The curriculum is very good. Consider the church a "served agency" and it starts reading like a manual for the ERC calling.
  • IS-100 and IS-700 online training (ICS and NIMS) are also worth taking for an understanding of the standard organizational structure used by government agencies during a response effort. This is designed to help them be compatible with each other. If we want to help alleviate suffering and assist during these efforts, knowing how the process works seems like it should be a basic prerequisite.
WB7SGL-p40
New Member
#22

Website Dedicated to LDS Amateurs

I am hosting a website dedicated to LDS Amateur Radio, it is open to everyone and not limited to LDS topics. It is a work in progress (what website isn't?). Presently the membership is primarily from Colorado, but there are members from other parts of the US and one foreign member from Switzerland.

I do not have any advertising on the website and my intention is to never have any. (so I hope this isn't a shameful plug, just a plug :)

The site is http://www.ldshams.com/

Thanks!

Robert
WB7SGL
Mikerowaved
Community Moderators
#23
Thanks Robert. Looks quite interesting.

Mike - KD7MG
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The_Earl
Member
#24

503, This server is unavailable

WB7SGL wrote:I
The site is http://ldshams.com

Thanks!

Robert
WB7SGL
Wow, apparently word has gotten out. I am getting a 503 error now.

I will keep trying back. Thanks for putting this up.

Barrie
AD7PE
Mikerowaved
Community Moderators
#25
The Earl wrote:Wow, apparently word has gotten out. I am getting a 503 error now.
Yeah,, I got the same error when I first tried it, but it went away when I manually entered www.ldshams.com into my browser. Not sure why.
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russellhltn
Community Administrator
#26
Mikerowaved wrote:Yeah,, I got the same error when I first tried it, but it went away when I manually entered www.ldshams.com into my browser. Not sure why.
Same here. But now that I'm on a different computer, I find the original link works on the second try. Strange.
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kfindlay
New Member
#27

ERC Nets

WE have been supporting emergency communications for the church locally for over 40 years.

Our stake has over 80 licensed operators. We have a weekly 'net" on 2M and have our own repeater. We have ERC training at stake leadership meeting for the unit ERC (Emergency Response Communicators). Anyone can join in our local net available through echolink look for the AB4KK link, Sunday evenings at 8:45 Central Time. We also participate in the Southeast ERC net Saturday mornings at 7:30 am Central Time with the store house in Atlanta.

We had tornadoes go through our area last Wednesday morning around 3am, our emergency training as ham radio operators really comes in handy in knowing what is going on.
KGBurton
New Member
#28
In the Salt Lake Valley, there are three regional Emergency Communications groups, one for each of the three bishop's warehouses. I can't speak for the others, but there is a net for the Sandy Region every wednesday night except for the third wednesday of every month. The net starts at 7:30pm on 146.46 simplex. Every stake in the region has a communications specialist that is supposed to check in. The Stake ECS is supposed to help with drafting a stake communications plan and coordinate ward communications within the stake.
brad54-p40
New Member
#29

Our recent emergency communication experience

A funny thing happened to our stake just recently while planning for our “emergency preparedness simulation test”. It was going to be held in September, but nature was impatient and we have been scorched by a series of wildfires here in northern California, and we are probably not done yet. My responsibility in the Stake Presidency has been emergency preparedness and I think my stewardship efforts were pretty well “torched” by these nationally reported events. For purposes of discussion may I share with you some unexpected failings relevant to communication?

The Sierra community most heavily hit has three LDS wards. When fires began to suddenly threaten the community, large scale evacuations were ordered by authorities. One of the first people evacuated was our ham radio coordinator. While we had other trained operators, the state of confusion etc. shut down any of the well rehearsed communications with the Stake Center. We might as well have tossed the radios back in a drawer and locked them up. Spotty cell phone and land line communications were all we had. Our lesson learned was to geographically diversify the radios and create redundancy systems.

Several key priesthood leaders worked outside of the community and when evacuations were announced they were trapped outside their ward with poor communication to know what was happening to their members etc. They were basically reduced to pacing the floor of the Stake Center. The chain of command to know the status of members was severely compromised.
While we focused on trying to determine the status of evacuated members, they didn’t feel the same need to communicate with us, instead finding their own way to other family and friends in the state and leaving their Bishops to continue to worry. I think the “take care of yourself” philosophy is great, but we will teach heartily the need to communicate both ways.

Our greatest need in this situation was INFORMATION. Even the official channels we monitored often gave contradictory news. It is hard to act and react with bad info.

Cell phone numbers for all family members (in the few cases that they were available) were so very useful. We have determined now to collect as many phone numbers for all family members as possible (respecting their wishes to provide them, of course). Because such info is ever-changing, the best place to store that data is in the MLS system. Currently, without creating cumbersome custom fields, the system allows only two phone numbers per family. Would someone light a fire under the “powers that be” to expand those fields?

The positives that we have noted were no loss of life for stake members; however three homes were completely lost. There is nothing like being in the line of fire to provide teaching opportunities and we received plenty of those. And I’m sure I can find that emergency prep handbook here somewhere. The bad news is that the official fire season has not even started yet.
The_Earl
Member
#30
brad54 wrote:... One of the first people evacuated was our ham radio coordinator. While we had other trained operators, the state of confusion etc. shut down any of the well rehearsed communications with the Stake Center. We might as well have tossed the radios back in a drawer and locked them up. Spotty cell phone and land line communications were all we had. Our lesson learned was to geographically diversify the radios and create redundancy systems.

Several key priesthood leaders worked outside of the community and when evacuations were announced they were trapped outside their ward with poor communication to know what was happening to their members etc. They were basically reduced to pacing the floor of the Stake Center. The chain of command to know the status of members was severely compromised. ...

You may want to work with local civil emergency planners to help get your radio operators and priesthood leadership into a disaster area. Setting up an ICS system, and having your people trained in ICS-100/200 (from the FEMA web site) will help you integrate with civil leaders. You may look into ARES or CERT to help you better work with civil leaders.

That said, I am a BIG fan of cell phones for emergency communication. Everyone has one, everyone knows how to use one, and they are portable. You do have to do some planning. You need a directory of numbers, a way to charge them, and signal.
russellhltn
Community Administrator
#31
Nothing like a real activation to find out how good the plans work.
brad54 wrote:One of the first people evacuated was our ham radio coordinator. While we had other trained operators, the state of confusion etc. shut down any of the well rehearsed communications with the Stake Center. We might as well have tossed the radios back in a drawer and locked them up.
I'm curious as to how just removing one individual had this effect.
brad54 wrote:Cell phone numbers for all family members (in the few cases that they were available) were so very useful. We have determined now to collect as many phone numbers for all family members as possible (respecting their wishes to provide them, of course). Because such info is ever-changing, the best place to store that data is in the MLS system.
That's been talked about in another thread. One issue that would need to be addressed is how to respect the member's desire on how it be used. Individual preferences would range anywhere from primary contact number to emergency only/limited distribution to key leaders.

In areas where cell phone coverage was spotty, did you find texting was more reliable?
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Mikerowaved
Community Moderators
#32
First of all, thanks for sharing your observations with us, Brad, and welcome to the forum. Hopefully we can all learn something from your experiences, good and bad. We are saddened by the loss of property in your area, but are grateful no one was seriously hurt or worse.
brad54 wrote:One of the first people evacuated was our ham radio coordinator. While we had other trained operators, the state of confusion etc. shut down any of the well rehearsed communications with the Stake Center. We might as well have tossed the radios back in a drawer and locked them up.
As you found out, it really pays to have depth in any communication plan. Who knows when a disaster might strike and who will be at work or out of town when it does? Also, I would have hoped that once your ham radio coordinator got his family safely evacuated, he would have the proper credentials to be let back into the the area to help coordinate the communications. As Earl pointed out, this is where ARES training and certification can really help.
brad54 wrote:Spotty cell phone and land line communications were all we had.
You are fortunate to have any at all. In many disasters, land lines and cell phones are hopelessly jammed or without power. They are fine for minor incidents, but quickly reach saturation for moderate to major events.
brad54 wrote:Our lesson learned was to geographically diversify the radios and create redundancy systems.
Yep. 'Nuff said on that topic. ;)
brad54 wrote:Our greatest need in this situation was INFORMATION. Even the official channels we monitored often gave contradictory news. It is hard to act and react with bad info.
Yes indeed. Getting accurate information out of the "trenches" up to those in authority seems to always be the hardest task.

Again, thanks for sharing your thoughts with us. Hopefully the rest of the fire season will be mild for you by comparison.
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The_Earl
Member
#33
Mikerowaved wrote:...


Yes indeed. Getting accurate information out of the "trenches" up to those in authority seems to always be the hardest task.

Again, thanks for sharing your thoughts with us. Hopefully the rest of the fire season will be mild for you by comparison.
Keep in mind that the civil authorities may have just as poor information as you do. You could be in a position to give them better information than they get from their usual sources. They don't want to have to worry about your safety, but having a few good communicators at ground-zero that are self sufficient and well informed can do wonders for your credibility.

Found this out the hard way too :).

The Earl
russellhltn
Community Administrator
#34
Mikerowaved wrote:I would have hoped that once your ham radio coordinator got his family safely evacuated, he would have the proper credentials to be let back into the the area to help coordinate the communications. As Earl pointed out, this is where ARES training and certification can really help.
ARES can help, but only if you have a connection to an agency that has the pull to get you back into the "warm zone". (A volunteer would never be sent to a true "hot zone".) The church by itself doesn't have the political pull to do that.

To help illustrate the situation, image yourself standing in front of a police officer who is preventing you from going back into the evacuation area. He's not going to let you though unless your ID is one of the ones his superiors have told him is "ok". That list is going to have to come from the local Office of Emergency Management. Some like Red Cross are going to be a given. Others, like ARES is probably going to get a "who?" kind of response unless a relationship has been created well ahead of time.

Now, California likes to do things differently. At least some parts of it is more into ACS for Auxlery Communication System. (No, it has nothing to do with Relief Society. :D). One problem with both ARES and RACES is it requires an Amateur Radio license when the problem being solved is really one of communicating. That leaves out other professional communicators. ACS is a "wrapper" that includes them all.

I had forgotten about it, but if you've got some hours to kill, take a look at their EMCOMM Bulletins. They're written by people who have "been there, done that" and it would be beneficial reading.
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northernscout-p40
New Member
#35
RussellHltn wrote:I figured there was still something there, but I guess it's a "closed" group that isn't looking for help from techie members. Otherwise I think they'd be interested in this forum in getting the message out.

But that's quite the opposite of most of other Emergency Communication groups I know of. Most are chronically short-staffed in the number of people available to them. Add to the fact that in any given emergency someone might not be available. Those kinds of things never check people schedules.

Hi Russel
You sound a bit discouraged. If you are then take a big breath and let it out slow. I am an emergency prep rep for my Victoria 2nd ward and when I started out I really didn't know what to do. I hunted around and still did not know what to do for a while. Eventually I found that my job was to help the bishop. My background is radio communications and electronics. I was asked by the stake to give them some information on what I thought would be a good way to go for the stake and wards regarding emergency communications. I gave them a lecture about the advantages of amateur radio. They looked it over and promptly ignored it and purchased a commercial radio package on a commercial repeater. They did not hold regular nets and never learned how to use their radios. A couple of years into this and they decided to try to talk to each other. They discovered that the commercial enterprise had shut down its repeater and the radios they had paid for were worth nothing. They couldn't even be retuned to a ham frequency. Now I have a new stake president and he understands the concepts I have been putting forward. I just put 5 members through the Basic amateur course and they will soon get their certifications. I just got word from the same stake president that he wants me to decide on a place to mount an antenna and locate a radio in the stake building. From what I gather our ward buildings will also each get an antenna and radio. Things are looking up. It's important that after we get members certified and the equipment in place we get into a regular net of some kind. Where I am I can get onto a net in BC's Fraser Valley and also into a stake net over in Washington. Like I said - things are looking up. If you have questions feel free to contact me. You can find me through my web site: www.ldsradio.ca
I don't know if I can help but I can always just let you sob on my shoulder. All the best.
VA7DH Image
russellhltn
Community Administrator
#36
I had to dig back a ways to find that quote. 17 months ago (and before I was a moderator, I'm sure.)

It sounds like your local situation is looking up. Ours is not doing too bad as we've been getting people licensed.

But we still haven't heard from anyone at CHQ on the subject, so at this point there doesn't seem to be any way for the stake to communicate to the area or higher.
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Ben21-p40
New Member
#37
Hi
Im Ben from Philippines, its good to know that theres a thread for emergency communications here. I've been using my amateur radios since 1995, and does do an awesome job.

My project now is hooking up the radios into the net. So that do DXing without using huge antennas.,and be able to established an emergency communication for the church in our area.

Hope to hear from you guys

Cheers!
The_Earl
Member
#38

Hear from us how?

Ben21 wrote:Hi
Im Ben from Philippines, its good to know that theres a thread for emergency communications here. I've been using my amateur radios since 1995, and does do an awesome job.

My project now is hooking up the radios into the net. So that do DXing without using huge antennas.,and be able to established an emergency communication for the church in our area.

Hope to hear from you guys

Cheers!
You can't make a post like that and not include your call :).

Barrie
AD7PE
Ben21-p40
New Member
#39
The Earl wrote:You can't make a post like that and not include your call :).

Barrie
AD7PE
Hi Barrie,

youre right about that
:)

Ben
KM986
Mikerowaved
Community Moderators
#40
Hi Ben! Welcome to the forum. Since this IS a Church "technology" forum and many church members utilize both old and new technology with Amateur Radios to fulfill their callings in Emergency Preparedness, I think a few threads on the topic fit here quite well. (How's that for an unbiased opinion? :D)

BTW, do you have IRLP or Echolink capabilities where you are? Just curious.

Cheers,
Mike - KD7MG
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russellhltn
Community Administrator
#41
Ben21 wrote:My project now is hooking up the radios into the net. So that do DXing without using huge antennas.,and be able to established an emergency communication for the church in our area.
What kind of project is that? IRLP and Echolink would be good when the "communication hole" is small, but you still need to get across the damaged areas. I'd think your big concern is typhoons where the damage can cover an entire island.
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RossEvans
Senior Member
#42
I am not a ham (not counting, of course, the novice class ticket I held when I was about 12, a very long time ago) and I am not involved with emergency preparations for my unit. But I am curious.

Is it the mission of the church network to be able to establish radio communications into a devastated area?

I recall that during the aftermath of Katrina, my sister and her family were near the bulls eye on the Mississippi coast. For several days our extended family tried many ways to get a message through or get some confirmation that they were alive. Those efforts included enlisting the help of a church member elsewhere in such a radio-net calling, to see if this channel could be of help. But to no avail. Happily, as it turned out, no one in the family was injured.
northernscout-p40
New Member
#43

Amateur Radio In theFar Off Trenches

Hi Ben and everyone

I am just trying to decide on what is best for amateur radio (HAM) communications from ward to Stake and Stake to Bishop's Storehouses, that sort of thing. Has anyone experience with this? I assume there must be some out there and I suppose that the results will very with size of stake and terrain. Where I live there are some hils and mountains that break things up a bit for VHF and UHF radio. There are quite a few amateur radio repeaters and many have mains power and solar photovoltaic arrays with battery backup. Most of what we have around here are 2m and 70 cm. I am considering mounting a Comet GP15 antenna on the stake building and it covers 2m 6m and 70cm even though I will likely settle on a Kenwood 2m transceiver for the building itself. Th reason for that antenna is that anyone called upon to staff the Stake Bldg can, in a pinch, bring in their own radio and be on air and have access to all the VHF, UHF links. I have sone some site work and testing to find out what repeaters I could get into and I know we could benefit from the additional 3 db gain beyond what I have in my old copper J-Pole antenna. Has anyone got any thoughts on this? Any recomendations? I would rather do this right first and not have to come back withhat in hand to upgrade to something more productive ? Of course I have most everything back hime including HF radio and a full wave 80m loop which is about 30 feet above ground, good for NVIS (300 mile radius by bouncing off the ionosphere directly above) at 80m and good for DX on frequencies in the 20m band and above.

Anyone have any thoughts on this? Am I going in the right direction? How about you, Ben, what are you using for DX that is compact and yet reliable?

Donn
VA7DH

Ben21 wrote:Hi
Im Ben from Philippines, its good to know that theres a thread for emergency communications here. I've been using my amateur radios since 1995, and does do an awesome job.

My project now is hooking up the radios into the net. So that do DXing without using huge antennas.,and be able to established an emergency communication for the church in our area.

Hope to hear from you guys

Cheers!
northernscout-p40
New Member
#44

HAM Radio Saved The Day

Hi Boomer

That's a good question you pose. Being able to do a good job dealing with a disaster really does hang on how well the support team back home can help the people on the front end where the needs are being estimated and sent back. You can't do a good job by having to literally go back and forth. The only way it can work is if there are good communications. During Katrina and the aftermath it was shown that amateur radio was really important. Commercial communications is designed for day to day service. There is no way that any commercial service could provide the equipment that would be able to handle a disaster in every location in the country. That's financially impossible. In the case of the amateur operators they either lived on location or they came in and brought their gear with them. It was quite amazing. Our church has tremendous human resources and supplies to fill the needs from a disaster point of view but in our organization as in others we tend to fall short in our supply of trained amateur radio operators. They are solid gold. One reason is that in an event most people are tied up taking care of their own families needs. So, more trained operators the better.

Take a look at the Canadian WEB site - www.ldsradio.ca

and go to the section - "Radio Saved the Day" to get an idea of some of the ways it has helped. This is not within the bounds of the church but you can sure expand to cover ways that you and I might be involved. Up where I live in Canada much of the country is broken up into units called municipalities. Almost every municipality has an emergency prep program and radio is always a unit within that program. I would suggest that any member getting into amateur radio get involved in their county, city, or municipality. It becomes a liason with the church through you. They usually have the equipment to help and the church doesn't. You become an eyes and ears to help your family and members if they need help. SO, it;s one of those things we call a win-win situation. I highly recomend you press forward with your amateur radio training and then put it to use in your ward/stake or local volunteer emergency prep organization. Besides that, it's fun. I would not do it if it was not fun. That and I get to meet some of the neatest people and I even get to chat up the church a bit on occasion. Sorry to hear that you were not able to get through by radio during Katrina. It was a huge event and no where near enough trained communicators to go round, that and ways to get messages back and forth. A mess. Think of an old telephone office with cord boards spread all over instead of just one building.

In my stake we have divided it up into zones with two leaders per zone (I called them zome leaders, sounds very missionary doesn't it). Anyway the home teachers work within their zones. If a disaster occurs we don't want home teachers to have to go far to help the members under their wing. In a disaster members are to go to their zone leads for help or to report. If a problem can't be taken care of within the zone then the zone leads report to the bishop and then to the stake leaders via ham radio and on up to the bishops store house. It just escalates to the next level if necessary. If not then it just gets taken care of an a report is sent up eventually. It could be amateur radio or if the area is compact perhaps by GMRS or FMS radios, whatever works.

I make it sound like it's all worked out but it isn't. We need to have regular exercises and try everything out. So far that hasn't happened but we are getting there and that's important - that we don't quit now.



73 as we say
DonnH
VA7DH
boomerbubba wrote:I am not a ham (not counting, of course, the novice class ticket I held when I was about 12, a very long time ago) and I am not involved with emergency preparations for my unit. But I am curious.

Is it the mission of the church network to be able to establish radio communications into a devastated area?

I recall that during the aftermath of Katrina, my sister and her family were near the bulls eye on the Mississippi coast. For several days our extended family tried many ways to get a message through or get some confirmation that they were alive. Those efforts included enlisting the help of a church member elsewhere in such a radio-net calling, to see if this channel could be of help. But to no avail. Happily, as it turned out, no one in the family was injured.
Mikerowaved
Community Moderators
#45
northernscout wrote:Hi Ben and everyone

I am just trying to decide on what is best for amateur radio (HAM) communications from ward to Stake and Stake to Bishop's Storehouses, that sort of thing. Has anyone experience with this?
In the Salt Lake and Davis Counties here in Utah there is a strong Amateur Radio presence in the Church's emergency communication plan. Every week they have various Ward and Stake ERC nets, including large Bishop Storehouse nets (many Stakes) every Sunday evening. Not all Wards and/or Stakes participate. Each Unit must make their own plan and decide if Amateur Radio will play a part in it.

We also have the Utah-Beehive NET every day at 12:30pm (Mountain Time) on 7272 KHz (LSB) to pass formal and informal traffic in the greater Utah area.

I'm currently only somewhat involved with the Church's ERC network. I don't have a direct Church calling, but for ARES I'm one of the Assistant Emergency Coordinators with responsibility for my home city of Layton. Our emergency Districts "happen" to fall along the boundaries of the 11 Stakes here, so I work pretty close with the District Coordinators, which also "happen" to be the Stake High Councilmen over Emergency Prep. As you can see, our situation is quite unique as our civic and ecclesiastical lines of responsibility get intertwined somewhat. If you're interested, I could go into more detail of how we all work together, but it probably wont be of much help in your situation.

One thing I did this year was used QRZ to identify all the ham operators that had Layton city zip codes in their addresses. (The database gave us 270 names!) Working with the city, we drafted a one-page survey, essentially asking if these operators would be willing to be trained (if needed) to assist with communications during a disaster, and mailed it out. Of those that responded, the overwhelming majority said they would very much like to learn how they could help. We are now setting up training and other exercises to get this group up and ready. Just to be clear, these respondants were both members and non-members alike. The training will mostly focus on the ARES aspect and not on the Church's ERC system, although as far as training and readiness go, they are very similar.

My suggestion to you is, if you decide to use ham radio in your plan, it would be wise to first know who in your area is licensed. Enlisting the help of non-members in a Church emergency response program could not only strengthen your communication abilities, but be a great missionary tool as well.

Mike - KD7MG
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Ben21-p40
New Member
#46
Mikerowaved wrote:Hi Ben! Welcome to the forum. Since this IS a Church "technology" forum and many church members utilize both old and new technology with Amateur Radios to fulfill their callings in Emergency Preparedness, I think a few threads on the topic fit here quite well. (How's that for an unbiased opinion? :D)

BTW, do you have IRLP or Echolink capabilities where you are? Just curious.

Cheers,
Mike - KD7MG


Hi Mike,

Thank you for the welcome greetings. :)

At home I can get into the net, and I can put up Echolink capabilty, just recently I made a Sound card interface which uses 2 isolation transfomer(thanks for Randy), just like the Tiny Echo. After im done building my "personal repeater' probably end of this year,I might be able to install it (Echolink).

I've seen from the List(echolink) that there are stations/groups here but far away from where I am, maybe my "returning" to communication,I will be able to reach them and hopefully be able to do DXing and be able to help establishing emergency communication for the church.

Due to my job (IT),I can only do assebling/making kits only on saturdays,thats is why my projects take a while to finish.

Cheers,
Ben
KM986
russellhltn
Community Administrator
#47
boomerbubba wrote:I recall that during the aftermath of Katrina, my sister and her family were near the bulls eye on the Mississippi coast. For several days our extended family tried many ways to get a message through or get some confirmation that they were alive. Those efforts included enlisting the help of a church member elsewhere in such a radio-net calling, to see if this channel could be of help. But to no avail.
I'm not at all surprised. The problem is how would any message get delivered once it had gotten into the area? The phones are dead and cell phones are out. Mail delivery may not be happing and is usually too slow for most people. The only way is to physically visit the residence. And now we reach the first obstacle - most people in a disaster area have more important things to do then to go and personally deliver a family message for a stranger.

And if they did visit the site, what might they find? If your sister had decided to evacuate, then the messenger may not find anyone or know where to look for them. All normal orderly things have broken down because, well, it's a disaster.

I'm not trying to get on your case. I'm just trying to point out why trying to get a message into a disaster area is going to have significant problems. And most trained emergency communicators will refuse to accept any message inbound to the disaster until their inside contacts say it's OK to do so.. And that's not likely to happen until the things have settled down and recovery begins.

This also shows the importance of having an emergency contact outside of the area. It's much easier to get a message out of a disaster area then to get one in. (In fact I've been told it's easier to get a call to the outside then to call within the disaster area.) People will naturally go to where the phones, cell phone, Internet, etc all work. And when they call out, it will be to an area where phones work, answering machines work, etc.

My recommendation is that for future events it would be wise to call ahead of the storm and work out who they will call if the worst happens.
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russellhltn
Community Administrator
#48
northernscout wrote:I am considering mounting a Comet GP15 antenna on the stake building and it covers 2m 6m and 70cm even though I will likely settle on a Kenwood 2m transceiver for the building itself. Th reason for that antenna is that anyone called upon to staff the Stake Bldg can, in a pinch, bring in their own radio and be on air and have access to all the VHF, UHF links. I have sone some site work and testing to find out what repeaters I could get into and I know we could benefit from the additional 3 db gain beyond what I have in my old copper J-Pole antenna. Has anyone got any thoughts on this? Any recomendations?
I like the idea you have. However, I would have to ask what kind disaster do you anticipate? It might be better to store that antenna inside as a spare in case the outside antenna got damaged in a storm.

The other thought is about "gain". One thing you have to realize, is that antennas are not capable of amplifying a signal. They can only "direct" the signal. Higher gain antennas direct the signal into a narrower path. It's a stronger signal if you're in the desired direction, but weaker if you're outside of that. The reason I bring that up, is if your station is in a city, you may want a lower gain antenna that has a higher angle of take off that will get over the buildings and hills rather then a high gain antenna that blasts your signal into the sides of nearby obstacles. Likewise, a good repeater antenna usually angles the signal a little downward while a base station antenna usually angles it upward - so what's good for a repeater may not be good for a base station. Bottom line, there's a lot more to antenna choice then gain.

My third thought is on repeaters. Depending on the disaster, you may not be able to count on them. Nothing wrong with using what's available, but don't rely on them working after a big storm. Also, I wouldn't plan on using a repeater without checking with the repeater owner. While the repeater maybe "open" during normal times, you may find some other group has a agreement with the owner and come a disaster, you may not be welcome. Plan accordingly. ;)

Anyway, those are my thoughts.
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RossEvans
Senior Member
#49
RussellHltn wrote:I'm not at all surprised. The problem is how would any message get delivered once it had gotten into the area? The phones are dead and cell phones are out. Mail delivery may not be happing and is usually too slow for most people. The only way is to physically visit the residence.

In this case, since my sister's home is next door to her ward meetinghouse -- both sited because they were on "high ground," a whole 20 feet above sea level -- we hoped we might at least find out from the stake emergency center if that chapel had been destroyed. Our last word from my sister the morning the storm hit was, "Things are not good. All the trees are down, the roof is going and there is water coming into the house. I have to go."

But from what we were told in the aftermath, the church radio net was not even effective in reaching the stake emergency center in the first place.
russellhltn
Community Administrator
#50
northernscout wrote:Where I live there are some hils and mountains that break things up a bit for VHF and UHF radio.
You might want to look into NVIS (Near-Vertical Incident Skywave) It's about bouncing your signal off the sky to hop over mountains. It takes HF equipment and an appropriate license, but in some cases it's worth doing since you can't alway count on repeaters.
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lajackson
Community Moderators
#51
boomerbubba wrote:But from what we were told in the aftermath, the church radio net was not even effective in reaching the stake emergency center in the first place.
During Katrina and the next hurricane that hit Texas, satellite phones were prepositioned with stake presidents (and I believe a bishop or two) and used to communicate with regional storehouses and CHQ. This proved to be quite effective, until other communications were established (HAM) or reestablished (cell/landlines).
russellhltn
Community Administrator
#52
lajackson wrote:During Katrina and the next hurricane that hit Texas, satellite phones were prepositioned with stake presidents (and I believe a bishop or two) and used to communicate with regional storehouses and CHQ.
That may explain why there seems to be a lack of interest in getting message from the stake and/or bishop's storehouse back to CHQ.
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Ron AC7CJ-p40
New Member
#53
northernscout wrote:Hi Ben and everyone

I am just trying to decide on what is best for amateur radio (HAM) communications from ward to Stake and Stake to Bishop's Storehouses, that sort of thing. Has anyone experience with this? I assume there must be some out there and I suppose that the results will very with size of stake and terrain. Where I live there are some hils and mountains that break things up a bit for VHF and UHF radio. There are quite a few amateur radio repeaters and many have mains power and solar photovoltaic arrays with battery backup. Most of what we have around here are 2m and 70 cm. I am considering mounting a Comet GP15 antenna on the stake building and it covers 2m 6m and 70cm even though I will likely settle on a Kenwood 2m transceiver for the building itself. Th reason for that antenna is that anyone called upon to staff the Stake Bldg can, in a pinch, bring in their own radio and be on air and have access to all the VHF, UHF links. I have sone some site work and testing to find out what repeaters I could get into and I know we could benefit from the additional 3 db gain beyond what I have in my old copper J-Pole antenna. Has anyone got any thoughts on this? Any recomendations? I would rather do this right first and not have to come back withhat in hand to upgrade to something more productive ? Of course I have most everything back hime including HF radio and a full wave 80m loop which is about 30 feet above ground, good for NVIS (300 mile radius by bouncing off the ionosphere directly above) at 80m and good for DX on frequencies in the 20m band and above.

Anyone have any thoughts on this? Am I going in the right direction? How about you, Ben, what are you using for DX that is compact and yet reliable?

Donn
VA7DH
Dear Brethren,
Being new to the Forum, I was surprised by some of the not too positive comments concerning the value of Amateur Radio during an Emergency Communications Event. Having been a Ham Radio Operator for many years now, I have seen good programs and poor programs. (I used to be part of the old ERRS program some years ago).
In the 3 years since being called by my Stake President to the Calling of Stake ERCC, we have called Ward ERCs in each of the 8 Wards in the Stake. We have licensed approximately 50 new operators and up-graded others in our Eastern Washington Stake.
We have had two rounds of Ham Radio Classes in the Stake with a third scheduled for this coming Autumn.
Our Regional Bishop’s Storehouse ERC holds with-out fail a regular Sunday evening Storehouse Net on one of the locally owned Repeaters. There are also back-up simplex frequencies assigned. That report is then passed by way of HF Radio to the Hermiston Level I Storehouse. I also conduct a Stake ERC Net every Sunday evening following the Regional Net, on a Simplex Frequency.
The Regional Storehouse ERC reports regularly to the Regional Welfare Committee, keeping the Stake Presidents in our Region up to date on Emergency Communications and the ERC program in our area.
Some of you may have heard of forest fire we had here in the SpokaneValley this past month.
All I can say is everything came together. Our Regional ERC activated the ERC Net during the fire, our Stake Presidents were very impressed; in-fact ARES came to us for help. ERCs in our area along with other licensed Ward members knew that when an emergency happens they are to turn on and tune up their radios.
The Bishop’s Storehouse was manned; relief/evacuation shelters were set up at the StakeCenter near the Temple, and then moved to the local High School.
What I am saying, is not to pat ourselves on our backs, but to stress the fact that for any organization to work and run efficiently, there must be constant training, not just once a month or every three or four months. Can you picture a well machined police or fire department only training once a month?
We not only have our weekly ERC Nets, but every 3 months the Storehouse ERC has training meetings for all the Stake and Ward ERC in the Region, but open to all members with a license.
I believe ARES/RACES has a lot to offer in the way of training and putting into practice real life situations, but for those with ERC Callings with-in a Stake or Ward our Mission is somewhat different than the two fine organizations I previously mentioned.
Anyway I hope that I have added something positive to the discussion. May the Lord bless you in your Callings, and with your local programs.
One more thought, leaders must consider being licensed, and there has to be a back-up link/network to and from those leaders. Those Priesthood leaders must be your main support group. The program will only work as good as those Leaders who are over it. There is always room for improvement, and new things to learn.
‘73’
Ron AC7CJ
teksaport-p40
New Member
#54

Great thread! Great Comments!

I just typed in this big comment and hit submit and the system says I'm not logged in, even though this page says I am.

Anyway, ...greatly shortened version...

My 2 cents. I don't believe CHQ needs my ward updates. They are working on the big picture and probably don't need me calling into them directly for assistance. I'll contact my Ward/Stake and they'll contact CHQ or civil authorities, but I trust that CHQ will be sending as much as they can to my area, if they can. Remember that if SLC is hit hard (my local area), so is CHQ and they might need assistance also. Others will likely help, but CHQ may not be in a position to do much at first.

My longer post was much more diplomatic and concise, please feel free to disagree.

Thanks
John
K7ALA
Ward Communications Leader
russellhltn
Community Administrator
#55
teksaport wrote:I just typed in this big comment and hit submit and the system says I'm not logged in, even though this page says I am.
Ouch. You probably timed out. I have mine set so that the site "remembers me" so I don't run into that problem.

teksaport wrote:I don't believe CHQ needs my ward updates. They are working on the big picture and probably don't need me calling into them directly for assistance. I'll contact my Ward/Stake and they'll contact CHQ or civil authorities,
I'm asking as a stake person. Sure, the wards will talk to the stake. How is the stake supposed to talk to the next level up? If someone knows, they ain't telling me.
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Mikerowaved
Community Moderators
#56
RussellHltn wrote:I'm asking as a stake person. Sure, the wards will talk to the stake. How is the stake supposed to talk to the next level up? If someone knows, they ain't telling me.
Not knowing your area, it's hard to tell how the ERC lines of communication are organized. For shorter distances VHF/UHF are used and for longer hauls HF and sometimes linked repeaters are used. I would contact your Bishop's Storehouse, or even a neighboring stake if you're unsure how to contact the next level up.
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Doug W7DZR-p40
New Member
#57

New to Everything - Need All The Help I Can Get

I am on the HC and have just been given the emergency communications assignment. This is not just for the stake but for our 8-stake area. Earlier this year we were able to hold a class and licensed 22 new hams in our stake, of which I am one of them. The other stakes do have hams but very little has been done in any of the stakes to get organized and nothing between the stakes. I'm looking at joining a local club and the local RACS to learn more. I want to not only get the stakes organized but make connections with the community so we don't have to reinvent the wheel and hopefully, help each other. I'm open to any and all suggestions you might have. Please help. Thanks.
russellhltn
Community Administrator
#58
Doug W7DZR wrote:I want to not only get the stakes organized but make connections with the community so we don't have to reinvent the wheel and hopefully, help each other. I'm open to any and all suggestions you might have. Please help. Thanks.
I think it's spelled RACES ;) In some areas it's RACES that is active, in others it ARES. In at least parts of California it's ACS.

You might also visit the next local VOAD meeting. In a disaster the church doesn't work alone. it's best if the local authorities know about the church so they will allow the church to help rather then herding the members out of the area for their own good. Nothing kills a plan quite as fast as a trooper standing at a road block saying "No. Sorry, those are my orders."
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thomasjking
New Member
#59
in our unit my wife has a "technician class license" which was easy to get---however we don't have a standby power supply as yet so if the power goes out she cant transmit. at one time our stake wanted every unit to have someone to have a license--but i havent heard much about this idea for a while
Mikerowaved
Community Moderators
#60
thomasjking wrote:in our unit my wife has a "technician class license" which was easy to get---however we don't have a standby power supply as yet so if the power goes out she cant transmit. at one time our stake wanted every unit to have someone to have a license--but i havent heard much about this idea for a while
Glad to see a nudge for people so inclined to get their license. We have a Technician class starting in 2 weeks for just such folks.

What kind of radio does your wife have? (It doesn't sound like a hand-held.) Most amateur radios operate on 12V, so in a pinch you can hook them to a car battery and operate that way. Another way is to watch the sales on computer UPS's. I've seen 500VA rated ones under $50. Granted, because of the modified sine wave, some work better than others, but by lowering your transmit power, they will last quite a long time.

Mike, KD7MG
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The_Earl
Member
#61
Mikerowaved wrote:Glad to see a nudge for people so inclined to get their license. We have a Technician class starting in 2 weeks for just such folks.

What kind of radio does your wife have? (It doesn't sound like a hand-held.) Most amateur radios operate on 12V, so in a pinch you can hook them to a car battery and operate that way. Another way is to watch the sales on computer UPS's. I've seen 500VA rated ones under $50. Granted, because of the modified sine wave, some work better than others, but by lowering your transmit power, they will last quite a long time.

Mike, KD7MG
Many of the smaller SOHO UPSs run a 12V battery inside anyway. It would seem silly to use a UPS to store 12vdc, then convert it to 120vac, and back to 12vdc.

You might try a car battery and a trickle charger, which you could leave plugged in all the time, but would allow operation in the event of a power outage. A cheap setup would cost you a bit more than the $50 UPS, but would last a lot longer.

You should also practice with your radio simplex. You probably don't need the full output of your radio unless you are in a rural area. Your battery will last a lot longer with a good antenna and moderate power.

The Earl
AD7PE
russellhltn
Community Administrator
#62
The Earl wrote:You might try a car battery and a trickle charger
Well, if you've got one lying around. But, a car battery is a poor choice. They're not designed for deep discharge. Run it down a couple of times and it's dead. A deep discharge battery is what you want. I think the marine (boat) version has some features that are useful (spill proof caps and maybe a handle for carrying.)

A good antenna allows you to run less power. It also improves reception. So a good antenna is an essential investment for emergency comms.
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KGBurton
New Member
#63

ECS - Emergency Communications Specialist

The Wasatch Front has a well organized communications network of Amateur Radio Operators. The Salt Lake Valley is divided into three regions, coincident with the Bishop's warehouse regions (Downtown, Magna, and Sandy).

Each region has regular meetings (Sandy every Wed night except for the 3rd Wed, 2m (146.56 simplex, backup at 145.77 simplex) at 7:30pm) to ensure that all radio operators are able to communicate and that their equipment is functioning properly.

The local ARES group meets Wednesdays at 8pm on 146.88Mhz

There is a communications plan that includes a roll up of reports from the ward ECS to the stake ECS to the regional ECS to Bishop Burton. Each stake is responsible for putting together an emergency communications plan that will enable the stake president to coordinate activities in his stake and provide information upstream (condition of homes & buildings, injuries, fatalities and urgent needs).

The Sandy region also maintains a Yahoo group to keep things organized outside of the radio communications. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sandyerc/

While those that are supposed to participate in the meetings are called, all are welcome to participate.

Ken

PS - This can be VERY high tech (TCP/IP over radio, slow-scan TV over radio, building repeaters and antennas, etc)
RussellHltn wrote:OK, this isn't exactly **** "high tech" but it's still technology. Yet this seem to be the first post to even contain the words "Amateur Radio".

So what's the scoop? Is there any official plan? I've heard of it being used in some individual Stake plans. I've heard word of it in time past for broader plans, but have lost contact. If the Church is still doing something with this, this site seems like an ideal way to distribute information and recruit volunteers.
ghender1-p40
New Member
#64

Which radios would you recommend for a ward level emergency net?

I am in Roseville 9th ward in California. I have a technician lic. and my bishop has asked me to recommend one or more radio types to be used in an emergency communications net for the ward. I am looking at 2m/440 hand held radios. I would like to hear from anyone who has experience in a ward/stake radio net.
Mikerowaved
Community Moderators
#65
The answer to your question would depend on a lot of things, like how many licensed hams are in your ward, how spread out the ward is, what kind of repeaters are available, what kind of radios are used at the stake level, etc. In general terms, dual-band radios are nice to have, but a basic 2M radio is probably adequate.

Mike, KD7MG
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russellhltn
Community Administrator
#66
Hand held radios are great - as long as you have working repeaters and a working understanding with the repeater owner to use them. It's a great first radio for most hams and does have a place in Emergency Communications, but generally I'd not recommend one as a "first radio" for Emergency Communications.

HTs (Handy Talkies) can only produce 5W of power. A mobile radio generally is 50W. That 10x can make the difference between passing the message and having a nice paperweight. But it really depends on the range and terrain you need to cover.

I'd check the reviews on eHam and such to find a specific model. Stick with a upper tier brand (Alinco, Icom, Kenwood, Yasu), but even then some models were better then others. While brands can interoperate just fine, it's usually better to stick with a given brand as they tend to use similar user interfaces, accessories, etc.

In my area, a few stakes have gone with the Kenwood TH-F6A. It's a nice HT (I've had one for several years now) and I think Kenwood tends to be regarded has having a bit friendlier User Interface (but still need the book for some functions). If I was to pick a mobile from the Kenwood line, it would be the TM-V71A. One nice advantage of a dual band radio is you can put the mobile into cross-band repeat and have your own little repeater. That can allow you to run around the chapel with a HT but still talk with the power of a mobile. Or park a car at a local high point and use HTs in the area (as long as the HTs are also dual-band.)

But again, that's just a local preference. There are other brands that work just as well.
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ghender1-p40
New Member
#67
Thank you for the replies. There is obviously a lot more for me to learn. Do any of you have a ward communications plan that could be sent to me?
michaelbuhrley
New Member
#68
ghender1 wrote:bishop has asked me to recommend one or more radio types to be used in an emergency communications net for the ward...
Nearly all of the hams in our ward have a Yeasu FT-60. There are other FT-60 users in the stake, but outside our ward the type of radio is more varied than in our ward.

One nice thing about us all having the same radio is that we can share one programming cable, all maintain the same settings and it is easy to answer questions about how to do something because someone will have done it before on that radio.

The HT is enough to get signal through most of the ward (with some hilly areas) but I cannot hit some of the other wards. I also have access to a Kenwood mobile rig that puts out 50 watts and I can hit the whole stake, the bishops storehouse and many other stakes in the area.

The ideal situation would be to have both available within a unit, so you can not only communicate amongst members of the ward but also someone in the ward would be able to relay traffic to other parts of the stake or a storehouse.
skiptaylor
Member
#69
ghender1 wrote:Thank you for the replies. There is obviously a lot more for me to learn. Do any of you have a ward communications plan that could be sent to me?
You need to check with your Stake Emergency Response Coordinator or the Stake Communications Specialist if these are in place. If not, have your Bishop check with your Stake President. He may have info on this. Our area seems to have had all this coordinated by the Bishops Storehouse for our area. At least that's who the paperwork is from.

In my stake/area (Southern California), frequencies have been assigned for inter-ward and ward to stake communications. For us they are all in the 2 meter band.

In our Stake, it's large enough that we will have to use yagi antennas for some communications as the 2 meter 50watt radios barely make the journey with j-pole antennas.

Hope this helps.
Skip Taylor :eek:
Lancaster CA.
ghender1-p40
New Member
#70
Thank you, I will check to see if the positions you mentioned are filled in my stake.
The_Earl
Member
#71

Doesn't matter

I have a Yaesu VX-150, and a VX-6r. I would not recommend the VX-6r, nor Yaesu's quality generally, but the 150 is a good radio. My ICOM radio is a pain to program. I don't think I would even try without the programming software. The ICOM I have (a 2200H mobile) is a SOLID radio.

I don't think it matters what radios you use, it is more important that your operators be familiar with the function of their radio. At most, I might recommend standardizing on a manufacturer, so that functions and menus have a similar layout and naming.

Then you need to practice. You need to practice simplex, battery operation, message passing etc.

Be sure to check in with your local ARES / RACES organization and / or your local frequency coordination body to let them know you plan on being on the air. You don't need their permission, but you do want to be neighborly.

Really, you don't need a radio as much as you need a communicator. If that person can get the message through, do you really care how, or what radio they use?

The Earl
AD7PE
ghender1-p40
New Member
#72
Thank you. I have checked with my stake representative, and he says that the stake no longer participates in a radio net. The stake multi-media rep is a VEC and will provide the training for the "Tech" lic.. Before we go on the air we will contact the emergency organizations and see how we can fit in.
skiptaylor
Member
#73
RussellHltn wrote:I'm asking as a stake person. Sure, the wards will talk to the stake. How is the stake supposed to talk to the next level up? If someone knows, they ain't telling me.
Welcome to the mushroom farm. In my area, we are to communicate from the Stake directly to a Bishop's storehouse via a repeater. I've been trying to reach the repeater for a while and it's not answering nor do I hear anyone else using it. It's only about 75 miles away on a mountain so I'm not sure I can hit that without a directional.

That part of the entire equation needs lubrication here as well is what I'm saying.
Skip Taylor :eek:
Lancaster CA.
russellhltn
Community Administrator
#74
avskip wrote:In my area, we are to communicate from the Stake directly to a Bishop's storehouse via a repeater.
Which in itself seems like a plan I'd question. Repeaters are infrastructure. The beauty of Amateur Radio is that it's capable of operating without an infrastructure.

If someone wants to make a repeater part of their plan, I immediately raise a number of questions:

- Do you have a Memorandum of Understanding with the repeater owner to use the repeater? Otherwise you may find yourself kicked off when you need it.
- What are the threats of concern in your area? Is this repeater immune to those? How long can it run without power?

I'm all for using it if it's available, but to not have a plan on what to do if it's not available .....
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ckidder-p40
New Member
#75

HF Nets?

Looking around the internet, it seems that there are lots of ward or stake level plans. So. Cal even has a detailed regional band plan. It appears that whomever sets up the HF nets between the bishops' storehouses and SLC, keeps that unpublished

I recently got an HF rig and I wanted to see if I could hit SLC, so I figured I'd look and see when the net was, but after looking around for over a week, all I could find was mention that there was a net that occurs.

So what gives? Like several other posters, I wonder why things get so quiet at the regional level and above.
skiptaylor
Member
#76
RussellHltn wrote:Which in itself seems like a plan I'd question. Repeaters are infrastructure. The beauty of Amateur Radio is that it's capable of operating without an infrastructure.

If someone wants to make a repeater part of their plan, I immediately raise a number of questions:

- Do you have a Memorandum of Understanding with the repeater owner to use the repeater? Otherwise you may find yourself kicked off when you need it.
- What are the threats of concern in your area? Is this repeater immune to those? How long can it run without power?

I'm all for using it if it's available, but to not have a plan on what to do if it's not available .....
I'm unsure of any of that... It's all beyond what they tell us here at the farm. :D There is the possibility of plans in place I'm unaware of.

I'm wondering why they want us to use 2m though as there's a pretty tall mountain range (San Gabriel Mtns ~10000ft) between my area and the Bishop Storehouse we are to contact.
Skip Taylor :eek:
Lancaster CA.
russellhltn
Community Administrator
#77
Well, in my stake they are following the advice of another stake who is a bit ahead in the plans, but from what I've seen, they don't have much experience either. For example, the first thing they did was buy HTs. (At least it's a good model.)
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Mikerowaved
Community Moderators
#78
ckidder wrote:I recently got an HF rig and I wanted to see if I could hit SLC, so I figured I'd look and see when the net was, but after looking around for over a week, all I could find was mention that there was a net that occurs.
If you want to see if you can hit the SLC area, you might try tuning into one of the following nets:

Code: 

Beehive Net       7272 KHz   LSB   daily    12:30 MT
Utah Code Net     3570 KHz   CW    daily    19:30 MT
Utah Farm Net     3937 KHz   LSB   daily    0200 UTC (19:00 MST or 20:00 MDT)

And when conditions improve, you might hear...
N. Utah 10m Net   28.313 MHz USB   Wed      21:00 MT
I know that wasn't exactly the info you were after, but it might provide you a good barometer of propagation possibilities into this area at different times of the day.
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ckidder-p40
New Member
#79
Mikerowaved wrote:If you want to see if you can hit the SLC area, you might try tuning into one of the following nets:

Code: 

Beehive Net       7272 KHz   LSB   daily    12:30 MT
Utah Code Net     3570 KHz   CW    daily    19:30 MT
Utah Farm Net     3937 KHz   LSB   daily    0200 UTC (19:00 MST or 20:00 MDT)

And when conditions improve, you might hear...
N. Utah 10m Net   28.313 MHz USB   Wed      21:00 MT
I know that wasn't exactly the info you were after, but it might provide you a good barometer of propagation possibilities into this area at different times of the day.

Thanks. That helps a lot. Now I get to see how good my piece of wire is.
Ben21-p40
New Member
#80

From the Philippines

Hi,

It's been a while I have not visited nor posted on in this thread, it's been a busy months working on my engineering job....:)

Anyway here my udpates of my radio project
1.I did able to completed my sound card interface, which can be used for echolink and echostation
2.I do now have a pair of folded dipole array (4 folded dipole each) for 2m repeater Rx and Tx
3.on -progress on assembling the NHRC-2 kit , but problem is that here in the Philippines there are no ISD-1420,:(
4 planning to purchase 2 GM300 VHF, or maybe Kenwood TM-271 for RPT purpose (or maybe 2200H Icom)
5. got a good contact on purchasing a Kenwood TRC-70 (2nd hand), planning to buy a HF, as my old HF rig is no where to be found
6. my DXing will be thru echolink on day time(MNL time)
7. Trained 2 new radio operators, and now they're actively participating local net,hopefully be able to reach enough numbers for Church emer comm purposes

My shack at home (currently)
1. Kenwood TM261
2 .Icom HT V-8
3. Icom V-68
4 F22,CP22 antennas
5. a 60 cm satellite dish


Cheers!
Ben
KM986
northernscout-p40
New Member
#81

Church nets and church sponsored training???

I'm in Victoria BC. You can look up my web site: ldsradio.ca. There is another web site in the north west United States (Washington and Oregon, etc) called Mercury NW and if you go to http://www.mercurynorthwest.org/index.php you will be able to read about the interaction between the church and us members who have our ham radio certifications.

Its my understanding, from all that I've been told, that the church gave direct support for amateur radio including some funding in the past. Someone got hold of that and used that information to beat up on the church claiming that amateur radio was being used for some commercial enterprise. So, the church separated itself from that and us members have been carrying along under our own steam yet assisting agencies of the church on a request by request basis. If there is a disaster somewhere the leadership of the church know who to call upon for volunteers to go out and provide communications. Nothing has really been lost, external working groups like Mercury Amateur Radio Association continue to act and provide some cohesive structure.

If you are a member and wish to become involved or at least in the loop then Google Mercury and find the group closest to you and tell them you exist and want to "play radio" as my friend puts it.
ve1vq-p40
New Member
#82
The Earl wrote:Wow, apparently word has gotten out. I am getting a 503 error now.

This is May 2009 and I'm getting the same error on LDSHAMS.COM! I hope this hasn't been a long term problem.

Dave
skiptaylor
Member
#83
ve1vq wrote:This is May 2009 and I'm getting the same error on LDSHAMS.COM! I hope this hasn't been a long term problem.

Dave
When I go to ldshams.com I just get their normal webpage. Must have been a short term condition.
Skip Taylor :eek:
Lancaster CA.
ve1vq-p40
New Member
#84

All is well - now

avskip wrote:When I go to ldshams.com I just get their normal webpage. Must have been a short term condition.

After your message I found the solution. T'was 'cookies not enabled'. All is well!

Dave
VE1VQ
ve1vq-p40
New Member
#85

equipment and antennas for chapels

I've been told by the Facilities Management people over our Stake (Dartmouth Nova Scotia) that no equipment would be purchased by the Church (policy) and no antennas should be installed for aesthetic reasons and building integrity (e.g. water damage) unless directed by the Stake President. Our Stake is too large for VHF so any antenna would have to be HF NVIS.

Now with the FM budget cutbacks announced, it is even less likely that anything will be installed.

In the event of an emergency, it is preferred that licensed members operate from their own home stations where equipment and antennas would have been properly maintained.

Dave
VE1VQ
brentcase
New Member
#86
That is the same take we have in our Stake in the Carolina's (My stake/Ward is on the border of North and South). It isn't policy to purchase equipment but to rely on the volunteer amateur radio enthusiast to supply their own equipment and expertise. In an emergency in our hurricane prone area, of course there possibly will be phone/cell communications in some areas but not all. If not, there will be cellphone texting, possibly Internet, even runners or driving to dispatch information. When all else fails, we are planning to strategically place HAM's using their mobile 2 meter gear near leadership or command posts (Ward/Stake Centers) in a simplex relay network if repeaters fail or are overloaded with Red Cross/RACES/ARES nets. Since LDS HAM's are few and far between, I am contacting local HAM's that would be willing to aid in church communications. For those that have great distances to cover like us, try keyboarding using some of the 2 meter packet modes such as APRS or "Weak Signal Digital FM" mode using 'DominoEX8'.

Brent - K4BSC
http://www.aimhighest.com
ve1vq-p40
New Member
#87
Our chapel has one of those free-standing steeples out in front of the building. I've always wanted to install a vertical antenna inside it, or be able to use the lightning rod ground wire for a radiator.

We have no trees of any decent height near enough to the building or capable of hiding any permanent antenna. One of these Field Days I do hope to operate from the chapel with an end fed from the building out to a 20-25 foot high spruce at the back of the lot.

Does anyone else plan to operate FD from a chapel this year?

Dave
VE1VQ
heartgard
New Member
#88
I'm joining in on this conversation a little late because I just saw it tonight, but I just passed my General in January and use the Yaesu VX8. Our Stake does a weekly emergency net on a simplex frequency and we have more and more people from the Stake joining each week. I'm also involved in the Ares/Races at our County EOC. I think members are starting to see the wisdom of Amateur Radio. One of our local Stakes has a website with some good info on it.
http://pschamps.webs.com/tipsheets.htm

Jackie
russellhltn
Community Administrator
#89
It's great to see that you're getting involved with the county EOC. I worry that our emergency plans are a little to insular. There's also a lot more to emergency communications than just getting the equipment and holding nets. Hopefully the involvement with the county EOC will help in that area.
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heartgard
New Member
#90
Our EOC has some training planned for us. I also would like to take the ARRL EM Comm classes I, II, and III. Off and on I try to study for my Extra. I don't really need it but I guess I'm going for it just so I can say I did it! Jackie
russellhltn
Community Administrator
#91
Songcatcher wrote:I also would like to take the ARRL EM Comm classes I, II, and III.
I is a great idea. II is probably not a bad one. But III is if you plan on being a EM Comm leader.

Extra buys you a little more spectrum. The test is much more technical. It can get you a little more prestigious call sign, but that's about it.
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Mikerowaved
Community Moderators
#92
First of all, congratulations on your General! That's a great achievement. You'll find the Extra exam a lot more technical, but IMO, it's worth the effort.

Just so you know, the ARRL EC-200 and EC-300 courses are no longer available. Later this year, they will be replaced with a single "Advanced" EmComm course of some kind.

Don't forget there are some great FEMA courses available as well, such as, IS-100, IS-200, and IS-700 that can help you better work with your served agencies during a major incident.

Finally, I had a good chuckle over your C.H.A.M.P.S. acronym. Someone spent some long hours thinking that one up! ;)
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heartgard
New Member
#93
Yes, I have already completed the IS-100, IS-200 and IS-700 FEMA courses. I had to complete those to get my state emergency worker card. I am also CERT trained. I never thought I would be interested in amateur radio but it makes sense because of my work experience in both 911 and Police Records Specialist. I much preferred the records radio which is alot less stress.

And about the whole Puyallup Stake website I gave you, I have no idea what the C.H.A.M.P.S. even stands for, I've been trying to figure it out since you brought it up and all I can come up with is Puyallup Stake Church Hams Public Service? What did you think it meant that gave you the chuckle? Maybe you got something different out of it. Jackie
russellhltn
Community Administrator
#94
Songcatcher wrote:And about the whole Puyallup Stake website I gave you, I have no idea what the C.H.A.M.P.S. even stands for, I've been trying to figure it out since you brought it up
It's on the website's home page: "Concerned Hams Assisting Members of the Puyallup Stake"
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heartgard
New Member
#95
Imagine that! All I had to do was find it on their website....too funny! They do have quite a large group of hams out there. They have done nets with over 100 check ins at times. I belong to a different Stake that has much fewer hams but trying to get the word out to interest more members. J
dennisbartholomew
New Member
#96

Ham Radio (ERC) in the Church

Many of us feel that the Emergency Response Communications (ERC) program in the Church is in need of a central location for disseminating information. This would promote consistency and, hopefully, correct information to all. I propose a website that would be operated by one or more responsible individuals - hopefully someone in Salt Lake who is 'in the know' on the ERC program. I have a website for the 61 stakes that I am responsible for at http://www.ercinfo.webs.com What do you think?
Dennis, KE6MFF dennis7400@sbcglobal.net
Mikerowaved
Community Moderators
#97
Your website is a great start. I recently stumbled on the ERC_ECS Yahoo Group. It's not very apparent, but it appears to serve the N. Utah area. In my search for information on ECS, I was surprised by how little there was.
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BoliviaKid-p40
New Member
#98

Stake ERC Plan Examples

Hi, I've read through this entire thread tonight! (All 10 pages) Was wondering if someone can point me to some example ERC plans that stakes/wards have put together. I understand that every area is different and stakes are of various sizes and geographical makeups but am just looking for a few examples of things that could serve as a starting point.

Thanks!
w7qlo-p40
New Member
#99
C.H.A.M.P.S stands for Concerned Hams Assisting Members of the Puyallup Stake. This is the Puyallup Washington Stake. We currently have approximately 200 ham operators in our stake.
hpaulsen
Member
#100
FYI, my latest WardMap update allows you to view a map of active amateur licensees for each zipcode that shows up in the ward. Might be helpful for some people.

http://wardmap.hpaulsen.com
vibes35-p40
New Member
#101

Stake Prepardness

Hi -

Great thread!

Our Stake also has radio users and a test each month. We have also incorporated our 'Block Captains' and handheld radio system to break-up the areas into manageable units.

Here is a link to the website we use that I had put together to facilitate the information process.

http://adellinger01.home.comcast.net/~adellinger01/
[edit: Site removed due to privacy concerns - restored after assurance it didn't come from church records]

having a system of checks in place is key!
russellhltn
Community Administrator
#102
vibes35 wrote:Here is a link to the website we use that I had put together to facilitate the information process.

http://adellinger01.home.comcast.net/~adellinger01/
Nice site. How many have taken the CERT training?
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n4yrd-p40
New Member
#103
dennis7400 wrote:Many of us feel that the Emergency Response Communications (ERC) program in the Church is in need of a central location for disseminating information. This would promote consistency and, hopefully, correct information to all. I propose a website that would be operated by one or more responsible individuals - hopefully someone in Salt Lake who is 'in the know' on the ERC program. I have a website for the 61 stakes that I am responsible for at http://www.ercinfo.webs.com What do you think?
Dennis, KE6MFF dennis7400@sbcglobal.net
It would be most helpful if the Church would assist in organizing Stakes and lower level units. Many storehouses have equipment to communicate with SLC. Many disasters have well proven the usefulness of Amateur Radio. In a disaster the Church wants reports up the line on the welfare needs but provides little help in the way of organizing Stakes and lower.

Our Stake (Raleigh NC) and an adjacent Stake (Apex NC) have put in some effort into getting licensed operators. We are still in the building stages. We hope to reach out to other nearby Stakes to get them moving as well. In a disaster, the impacted Stake has enough to do; the adjacent Stakes can help by providing some communications assist. We have a weekly net run by my counter part (Stake Emergency Communications Specialist) in the Apex Stake.

Once we get our numbers built, I'll reach out to the units to help them organize also. We can provide communications up for our Stake President but if he has no information, there is no need to communicate. We are already working with the block captain (larger scale in less densly populated membership) method. We hope to get Amateurs in each "zone." We hope to get some members of bishoprics licensed and our new Stake President has committed to getting a license as has another member of the Presidency. We already have some members of the High Council licensed and have put a dual band (VHF/UHF) antenna in each building. We have radios and HF also in the Stake Center. Our FM manager said he was given permission by SLC to install the antenna in each building. We did install "in" each building other than the Stake Center which has a metal roof so those are "on" the building. The FRS radios will likely become a part of our relay system for information since we may not get enough licensed Hams. I think then can be a help but can not be the main method of communctations because of their short range of operation.

It has been several years since we've lost communications in this area but it happens either during hurricane season or those odd winters with a bad ice storm. We're about due for another comm down soon here so I'm hoping to get the final touches on our Ward soon. We have lots of support and quite a few Hams and I'm hoping we can set a standard for our Stake and help others do likewise. I've worked in many types of Comms with Amateur Radio (City, County, State, Church) and it is always the link to the needed information that is key to providing assistance or knowing an area is all OK. I don't think we are doing anything unique here in central NC but if anyone wants info, feel free to reach out. I've held this role also in the middle of Provo in the past so I understand the dense church population and the sparse.
coletheelder
New Member
#104

Amateur Radio

No one has mentioned Provident Living under Emergency Preparedness under Communications.
russellhltn
Community Administrator
#105
Bob Collester Jr wrote:No one has mentioned Provident Living under Emergency Preparedness under Communications.
http://www.providentliving.org/channel/0,11677,8033-1,00.html

The FAQ section under Emergency Communication seems to be the most helpful.
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Mikerowaved
Community Moderators
#106
For Amateur Radio operators in the state of Utah, be prepared for a statewide SET (Simulated Emergency Test) on the morning of Saturday, Oct 31, 2009. (Yes, it's Halloween. ;)) It will start at 9am local time and run for approx. 90 minutes. We will be focused on activating and communicating statewide without telephone/cell phone support. This will mainly be an ARES exercise, but other Amateur Radio organizations will be invited to play along, including ERC.
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dennisbartholomew
New Member
#107
As a new entrant into this forum, I'd like to chime in. Yes, the Church has an amateur radio room on the 28th floor of the 26 floor Church Office Building. (The 2 top floors aren't accessable to most people.)

I am responsible for 61 stakes in northern California and western Nevada dealing with amateur radio for the Church. I have had this calling for only about 2 years, and am still learning.

The amateur radio program is called Emergency Response Communications (ERC), and is a bonified program of the Church. All Tier 1 storehouses (they are also called central storehouses) have ham radio equipment and a satellite phone. All Tier 2 storehouses have a satellite phone only. Church policy states that stake and ward buildings are not to have amateur radio equipment as part of in-building equipment, but some do. It's a decision of the stake presidents.

A last comment, and one that would apply directly to the tech aspect of the forum, has to do with a simple program idea that could be developed that would significantly advance the ERC Program. I am calling it MARC, or Member/Amateur Radio Compare program. It would simply compare the FCC's database of all licensed amateur radio operators with the database of all Church members, probably by address. This list could then be distributed to stake presidents, who would give it to the stake ERC specialist, who would then have a list of all members who were licensed ham radio operators. This would be very helpful in allowing the ERC program to go forward.

For any questions my address is dennis7400@sbcglobal.net For a look at my website, go to http://www.ercinfo.webs.com I apologize if I have done anything incorrect, but thought this was the best way to introduce these thoughts.

Thank you.
russellhltn
Community Administrator
#108
dennis7400 wrote:a simple program idea that could be developed that would significantly advance the ERC Program. I am calling it MARC, or Member/Amateur Radio Compare program. It would simply compare the FCC's database of all licensed amateur radio operators with the database of all Church members, probably by address.
An interesting idea. I'm not sure how easy it would be to connect them. I'd settle for something that could try to match entries by last name and zip code. Doing the comparison at a stake level should be manageable for one person to check the results. But even that would be thrown off by a PO address.
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rwbris18
New Member
#109

ERC

I like the Idea of a Global LDS-ERC for the church even if they don't "officially" sanction it. I think we (HAMS) could build it like ARES is organized. We would have have our own net for emergency communications. (Local, Area, Mission, Etc)

We will need a database with members and capabilities so we can set up routing and networking. I suggest we could use the church's organization of area, stakes and wards with communication to the nearest local HAM. We would need to set up call frequencies and times for the different bands and modes.

Do you think we could convince LDS NET be the organization with our help?
MorettiDP
Member
#110
I believe it's an interesting thing! With small features, CDOL can receive data of radio frequency and other data of an LDS-ERC radio system buit in wards, stakes, missions, areas, etc.
Roger-p40
New Member
#111

Mara

MARA was an effort to have a worldwide amateur network. It worked in places where you had a strong leader. Some of the groups are still going some have stopped operation.

At one time we had a list of members who had ham license. This was produced by someone in SLC.

Roger
N4AHA
skiptaylor
Member
#112
Roger wrote:MARA was an effort to have a worldwide amateur network. It worked in places where you had a strong leader. Some of the groups are still going some have stopped operation.

At one time we had a list of members who had ham license. This was produced by someone in SLC.

Roger
N4AHA
I found a MARA website (http://www.mara.net/). With some information, but it's limited.
Skip Taylor :eek:
Lancaster CA.
Mikerowaved
Community Moderators
#113
MARA is a fine group and still exists in many areas, but they are no longer the emcomm organization of the Church. The Church now uses its own group of Amateur Radio operators and the current title is Emergency Response Communications, or ERC.

(I say "current" title, because there is a small internal conflict with the initials ERC, as this also means LDS "Employment Resource Center".)
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russellhltn
Community Administrator
#114
Mikerowaved wrote:MARA is a fine group and still exists in many areas, but they are no longer the emcomm organization of the Church. The Church now uses its own group of Amateur Radio operators and the current title is Emergency Response Communications, or ERC.
I wonder how the issues raised in the past have been dealt with? Or will history repeat itself?

Link
Have you searched the Help Center? Try doing a Google search and adding "site:churchofjesuschrist.org/help" to the search criteria.

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Mikerowaved
Community Moderators
#115
RussellHltn wrote:I wonder how the issues raised in the past have been dealt with? Or will history repeat itself?http://www.mara.net/12052008.pdf
Those in charge are well aware of the past issues with MARA and have guidelines in place to prevent a recurrence.
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Onti-p40
New Member
#116
RussellHltn wrote:http://www.providentliving.org/channel/ ... -1,00.html

The FAQ section under Emergency Communication seems to be the most helpful.
As an emergency coordinator, I've always figured that a Deacon on a dirt bike is a lot more useful than a Bishop in a Buick. Get the Deacon a ham license and an HT, and keep the Bishop at the building -- each is now where he can do the most good.

As far as your binary comment, sounds like 11rd-hand info to me.
mike s-p40
New Member
#117
RussellHltn wrote:OK, this isn't exactly **** "high tech" but it's still technology. Yet this seem to be the first post to even contain the words "Amateur Radio".

So what's the scoop? Is there any official plan? I've heard of it being used in some individual Stake plans. I've heard word of it in time past for broader plans, but have lost contact. If the Church is still doing something with this, this site seems like an ideal way to distribute information and recruit volunteers.
Hi, Probibly not what you are expecting but this is the only site i can find for church radio amateure. I'm an active operator in the uk and wondering if the church has a site for radio amateures like our selves? Or if not how is one statted, either on the air or web? Hope you reply soon. mike s
northernscout-p40
New Member
#118
Hello fellow hams and wannabe hams (or why on earth do I want to be a ham?).

Don't despair about not having the church supply us with equipment. As someone mentioned - it's better for members to have their own equipment, antennas, etc, that they keep up and know are in good operating condition. Being a member of a couple of regular nets that you check into helps you to know your equipment is operational and that you are mentally prepared to communicate.

HAMS NEED BACKUP POWER TO BE EFFECTIVE

It's a given that you also need some sort of power source that will allow you to operate when the commercial power goes down. I have a 110 AH 12V AGM battery under my radio shelf. The AGM is a bit expensive but it's a sealed battery and I know it's not drying up on me. It's also not producing sulfurous gasses that smell the place up or concentrations of potentially explosive gases. If it were then it should be kept outside. I charge it with a small smart charger designed to work with AGM batteries. I would like to purchase a couple of 100 watt solar panels and mount them facing the south and these to charge the AGM battery. I have a similar thing, a single 70 watt panel, on the roof of our Trillium travel trailer. I wired my truck with a solenoid that provides power to the charge system in the trailer when the trucks engine is running but since putting the solar panel onto the roof the charge circuit from the truck is redundant.

The reason I mentioned putting a pair of panels somewhere on the house is because of two things - more usage of other items requiring 12V power (emergency LED lights, AM and FM broadcast radios) ,and the time when most failures occur is in winter when solarization to the panels would be at a low. Less sunshine and more rain/cloud, etc. You need a whole lot more solar collection area to provide useful electrical power than in the summer months. Not keen to put up a wind charger because older ones were pretty noisy. Some newer designs are more attractive, the ones with curved blades like the ones on stealth helicopters. You and your neighbors won't lose sleep, almost noiseless. Still hard to find distributors of them though. There is one in Australia called the Hush Turbine. I was just searching for info on quiet wind chargers and found an article on sources of noise. I never even considered some of them before:
http://www.windturbinenoises.org/wind%2 ... noise.html
Lots of considerations. The thing with photovoltaics is this: when the wind is stopped often you have sunshine, when the sunshine is gone there is usually wind. Ideally I guess a person should have a sampling of both technologies to exist off the grid or through a disaster situation. Most blue water sailors have both on their sail boats to handle their needs while crossing oceans.

Donn/VA7DH
ldsradio.ca
lmherdz
New Member
#119

Ward Emergency Response Communication Specialist (WERCS)

Ward Emergency Response Communication Specialist (WERCS)
The WERCS Is Responsible For:
·Organizing methods of communication to be used in times of an emergency.
·Providing emergency communication between the Bishop, ward leaders and members.
·Providing emergency communication between the Bishop and Stake Emergency Response Communication Specialist (SERCS) in the event that “normal communications” are disrupted (i.e. phones lines & cell phones). The means of communication is at the discretion of each ward and may include Ham Radio, CB Radio, General Mobile Service Radio GMSR, Family Service Radio FSR, messenger or any other method that works.
·Teaching ward members how to set-up and operate equipment used by the ward
·Helping ward members understand their Ward Emergency Communication Plan and how it is to be implemented. This may include helping individuals obtain a license, as required, to operate radios used by the ward.
·Practicing communication techniques on a ward level to ensure their ability to communicate in an emergency (monthly or more often as needed).
·Participating in a weekly stake net (on the air check-in and capabilities report) using a 2 meter ham radio. WERCS should stay on the net until it’s closed.
·Calling roll for their ward during the stake net, if asked.
·Performing the responsibilities of the Net Control Operator for the stake net, when assigned.

Characteristics of a WERCS
·Bishop is comfortable talking to and working with the WERCS and trusts their ability to communicate messages accurately.
·Must be able to handle sensitive information and maintain a high level of confidentiality.
·Should be a person that is normally in the area (doesn’t routinely travel for extended periods of time unless they have a backup person) or is not part of Law Enforcement or other emergency services which likely be called into action during an emergency.
·Should have an aptitude to use technical devices or a desire to learn.
·Does not need a Ham radio license to be called or assigned to this position. The stake should provide ham radio training and will help them get their license.
·The Ward Emergency Preparedness Coordinator may be utilized as the WERCS.

Financial Requirements:
·Radio license $15.00
·The WERCS will need to be able to spend $135.00 for a 2 meter handheld Ham Radio.
·Optional expenses depending on the difficulty of communicating due to distance or terrain:
[font=&quot]o [/font]External “slim jim” antenna $20.00
[font=&quot]o [/font]¼ wave whip antenna $30.00
[font=&quot]o [/font]Backup battery AA case $30.00
[font=&quot]o [/font]mag mount car antenna $35.00
[font=&quot]o [/font]filtered automotive power supply $30.00 (most newer cars have clean electrical system so the extra expense of a filter may be unnecessary – worst case there is whining of the engine rpms in the background of your audio transmition).
[font=&quot]o [/font]12 volt power cord $8.00
lmherdz
New Member
#120

0-60 Hams in One Year Plan

0-60 Hams in One Year Plan
How the Roseville California Stake Went from Zero to Sixty Ham Radio Operators in One Year
Here is what they do:
1) Keep it simple
a) Avoid the “Hammy” talk like 73, etc. and ask that people just speak normal. You are not trying to impress anyone by using CB lingo. Most people new to Armature Radio can get lost and this is in an effort to help them feel included, not excluded from the conversation.
b) This is not a “hobby.” Most people will get there Amateur Radio License either for their calling or for emergency communications and not necessarily for the “hobby’s sake.” It may become a hobby (and that’s okay) but that is not what is emphasized.
c) 2 Meter simplex (unless it does not work geographically for your stake).
d) Basic Hand Held Radios and mobiles. They recommend the Yaesu FT-270R hand held or the Yaesu FT-2900R mobile. There are many opinions out there and cool muti-bands for over $1,000 dollars but our focus was to keep it as inexpensive and simple as possible. For around $250 dollars a Ward Emergency Response Communication Specialist (WERC) can get everything he needs - a hand-held radio, ¼ wave antenna (which is way better than the “rubber-ducky” antenna it comes with), back-up battery adapter (that takes AA batteries), car cig. lighter adapter, a mag mount car antenna and “Slim Jim” antenna. See detailed list below:
Basic HT Set-Up
Manufacturer:
Item :
Description :
Price
Notes
YAESU
FT-270R
2M 5W HT W FNB-83 & CHARGER
$129.99


Fry Elect.
YAESU
CN-3
RFA-8182PP
SMA Male to UHF Female $4.00 ea or use Yaesu mini coax HS-05 18” SMA to SO-239 from HRO for $14.95
$11.95

YAESU
EDC-5B
Filtered Cigarette lighter plug
$26.95

YAESU
FBA-25
6 AA BATT CASE
$20.95

(Find on ebay)
Top of Form

VHF Slim Jim J-Pole For HT 2 Meter Antenna 16'
(also works on ft-2900 radio instead of buying long coax and base station antenna. Good starting point.
Coax)Bottom of Form
$23.00

YAESU
MH-57A4B
SPKR/MIC VX-7R/VX6R
$30.95
(Optional)


2M 5/8 W/ MAG MOUNT ANTENNA
(optional)
Mobile or Base Station Set-Up
YAESU
FT-2900R
2M 75W MOBILE W MH-48A6J MIC
$159.95


100-feet 9913-Equivalent Ultra-Low-Loss Coaxial Cable
$120.00
Diamond
CP22E
2M 2-5/8WAVE VERTICAL 6.5DB 9ft Antenna
$54.95
Alpha-Delta
TT3G50
Surge Protector (Ask John or Steve about $5.00 substitute)
$59.95
(Hardware store)
8' Grounding Rod ¾”? or the largest dia rod at Home D.
$15.00


Solder type. N-TGS-HRO $5.99 each at HRO
$12.00
Powerwerx

AndersonPower Pole Connectors (30 amp)
$10.00
Sams-Club

Marine Deep Cycle Battery
$60.00
Wal-Mart

Batterymaintainer/ charger (Schumacher1.5 amp)
$20.00
Wal-Mart

Plastic Battery Case
$8.00
McMaster-Carr

10 lf Red/ Black 12 ga wire
$10.00
e)

Since most of us have the same radios it is very easy to “clone” them. This basically copies all the pre-set channels and tones (for the repeaters). It has also easy reference to say “Go to channel 100” verses giving out the frequency (might come in handy someday).
2) Lead by example – as a leader people will follow what you have. We have approximately 60 operators in the stake (some still do not have radios) and we average at least 30 who participate weekly on our Stake net every Sunday night. The stake next to us has over a 150 operators (they had a really big push to get people licensed) and they only have about 10 people on average on their nets Sunday nights. So what’s the difference? We all have inexpensive single band radios and almost all of them (10 or so) have the $1,000 multi-band radios.
3) Find a local Ham Radio club that will do testing for you and put together a 3- hour “Ham Cram” study session. This is 3- hour self study. Ask them to go through all 400 questions and answers (it has just the correct answers) at least twice and then review just the answers right before the test. We have had a perfect record on passing so far on doing it this way. It is difficult test and many complained that they did not understand what they were studding thought for sure they were going to fail. The idea is to get you to pass and then we can teach them how to use the radio and understand everything later.
4) As the Stake net evolves and the Wards come on line ask that each WERC call roll for their own Ward. This helps them gain experience speaking in the mic and gives them a reason to be there each Sunday. The plan is to eventually have each Ward do their own net with just the ERC’s checking into the Stake Net but we are not there yet and this seems to work pretty well.
5) Keep the communication plan as simple as possible. For example our “Official” Stake plan is two pages and just has the most basic information and contact numbers. As a companion to that we have the 24 page handbook which gives all the information they need from their responsibilities in their calling to how to run a net.



http://ercinfo.webs.com/march2011meeting.htm.
russellhltn
Community Administrator
#121
lmherdz wrote:
0-60 Hams in One Year Plan
How the Roseville California Stake Went from Zero to Sixty Ham Radio Operators in One Year
Here is what they do:
A good plan. A few comments:
lmherdz wrote:2 Meter simplex (unless it does not work geographically for your stake).
If your stake is geographically really small, FRS or maybe the new XRS will do the job. Cheaper, and no license required.

Before going to 2 meter, you might want to talk to experienced hams in the area. There might be situations where 2 meter is overcrowded and you might be better served by going to a different band.

I do agree with going with a simplex mode. A repeater may not be available to you in the time of need. Either it may not survive the disaster, or the owner will give some other group priority. (Repeaters are private property. Don't just assume you can use them.)
lmherdz wrote:Basic Hand Held Radios and mobiles. They recommend the Yaesu FT-270R hand held or the Yaesu FT-2900R mobile.
While everyone is attracted to hand-helds, you'd probably be better off with mobile. 50W vs. 5W makes a big difference in range and can mean the difference between getting the message though and not. Depending on the stake's geography, hand-helds may not do the job in simplex mode. One trick you may want to consider is have a mobile operator for between building communication and use FRS radios for in-building communication and getting messages from to/from the radio operator.

While Yasu is a good solid brand, some find Kenwood's menu structure more user-friendly.

An up and coming brand is Wouxun. $119 will buy you a commercial-grade dual-band. Several hams in my area have them and love them. Hard to beat the price.
Have you searched the Help Center? Try doing a Google search and adding "site:churchofjesuschrist.org/help" to the search criteria.

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cshields
New Member
#122
RussellHltn wrote: While Yasu is a good solid brand, some find Kenwood's menu structure more user-friendly.

An up and coming brand is Wouxun. $119 will buy you a commercial-grade dual-band. Several hams in my area have them and love them. Hard to beat the price.

Just grabbed one of the Wouxun KG-UV3D radios at Dayton a week ago.. I'm a big fan of the Kenwood HTs, and the Yaesu HTs are real nice too. I grabbed a Wouxun just to see if it was worth the price. For a new ham who might be on a tight budget (which is the case for a lot of people right now) it is a great buy! They were $85 at the hamfest, now $100 online. Dual band with partial dual receive (it will monitor 2 frequencies at one time but as soon as one breaks squelch the other is muted until the first transmission is over. In other words, not dual simultaneous receive). However, you can't find a dual band HT for that price in any of the major brands so this is a perfect deal. For $22 diamond sells an antenna for this which helps the reach a lot (the radio is reverse-sma and there aren't many after market HT antennas for that form right now)

Recommended for someone who is on a tight budget. If you can afford the Kenwoods, Yaesu, Icoms, etc. you will get your money's worth, but budget-wise Wouxun looks to be a winner.
Mikerowaved
Community Moderators
#123
cshields wrote:Just grabbed one of the Wouxun KG-UV3D radios...
And they actually have darned good audio quality over-the-air. It definitely needs the programming cable to commit a significant amount of frequencies to memory slots, but I can say the same thing for my Yaesu as well. :)
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ajwheeler
New Member
#124

LDS and a retired comm radio perator, commtech, 50+ years in radio communications

I've been around the block a time or two. read most of the blogs on this site. Love it. dont confuse amateur radio and CB radio, they are not the same. huge difference in operational capability. Im all for all levels of radio communications, each has a very useful function. In my ward and stake we have amateur operators of various levels of experience. all are needed. The Elmers (tutors), and the new in the radio (Amateur) service. I was a newby myself and learned from others. I live on Vancouver Island, British Columbia, Canada. I am active on HF, VHF and UHF.

I highly recommend to anyone who is interested in obtaining their Amateur Radio Licence to contact their local amateur radio club and enquire about any possiblle classes that are often associated with their club. There is a budget for all levels of activity. one does not need to be well heeled to become active. often very good used equipment is available to the newcomer. But I suggest you talk to an well experienced Ham (Amateur) operator before making any purchases. Make sure that when buying late model vhf and uhf equipment that their accociated programming software (when it is required) is very friendly to use as opposed to some that are not. That can make all the difference in enjoying the very flexible features a programmable radio. Inexpensive does not necessarily mean friendly.

The Church can very definitely use your new found skills and service as and when needed, and do not forget the service to the general public in times of need. Amateur radio can be a lifelong friend and full of great times and experiences. If your interest is genuine and sincere, i garanttee you will not reget it.

dialajw@gmail.com
aleigh
New Member
#125
My stake uses ham radio as one way of providing communications. My stake is also experimenting with FRS. Geographically, my stake is small and indoor and mobile antennas work fine with our simplex net.

I'm writing this post to request some feedback. Several of the hams in my stake are new to ham radio as well as to emergency radio communications. To help us overcome this "problem", I've created a blog that explains in simple terms some of the procedures that should be used by ham operators during emergencies. If you have an interest in this, I would appreciate your taking a few minutes to read the pages in the blog and sending me corrections and suggestions for improvement. The About page gives my email address.

:) Thanks in advance.

http://hamradiobasics.blogspot.com/
kalspaugh
New Member
#126
I am in a new stake in the Philippines and am looking for ideas for setting up our network. I think it is worth mentioning that when we do this that we comply with the local and national radio control laws. I t would really be nice if there was an Echolink account that is manned 24/7 and not an occassional net call schedule. This can be easily done since there are Saints all over the world.

Now I read something suggesting that we keep our language simple or non-cryptic. We need to keep in mind that if we occupy the Ham Radio Bands, that our language must comply with the use of "Q" codes and respect the order in which the laws state that we operate under. This also includes proper licensing of the operators. Even 10 code type operators must comply to the rules of 10 code conversation rules. The advantage of Ham Radio operation is that at the flick of certain emergency frequencies, you can relay the emergency at a quicker and organized manner. Having said that,,there are some Ham Operators that make it known that their first priority is not communicating rather than baffling the listener with technical jargon that would confuse anyone. The end goal is communications so it is possible to communicate correctly and intelligibly by complying to the rules of communication. You can save the impressive talk for your Hamfests and club meetings.
russellhltn
Community Administrator
#127
kalspaugh wrote:We need to keep in mind that if we occupy the Ham Radio Bands, that our language must comply with the use of "Q" codes and respect the order in which the laws state that we operate under.
Are you saying that if we use the ham bands, we must use the "Q" codes? I've never seen such a rule.
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Mikerowaved
Community Moderators
#128
kalspaugh wrote:It would really be nice if there was an Echolink account that is manned 24/7 and not an occassional net call schedule. This can be easily done since there are Saints all over the world.
IRLP node 9259 on the Western Reflector is primarily for LDS ERC-ECS use. Not just for nets either, but it's a go-to place in case of a real emergency. If Echolink works better in your situation, no problem. IRLP 9259 is permanently linked to Echolink Conference *ERC-ECS* (328327). There's really no need to man it 24/7. If and when disaster strikes, it will get busy pretty fast.
kalspaugh wrote:The end goal is communications so it is possible to communicate correctly and intelligibly by complying to the rules of communication.
I highly recommend the Amateur Radio Public Service Handbook as required reading for all who wish to use their radio skills to serve their community during any kind of emergency. It's certainly NOT the only training volunteer hams should have, but it's a great beginning, especially for those new at this type of thing.
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coletheelder
New Member
#129
I suggest that the Stake and Ward Emergency Planning Guide, as found on the Provident Living website, as well as in the Instructional Resources for Welfare Trainers, be used as a starting point when discussing this topic. Step 4 of the Guide addresses the subject directly.

In addition, The Emergency Response Communications Handbook "is designed to teach the basics of emergency communications as it relates to members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints." It is a private, not Church authorized description of amateur radio and emergency communications written by a Bishop's Storehouse Communications Specialist. I got my copy on Amazon.
dpace1
New Member
#130
I read somewhere that the church dozen't allow Ham radio training in church buildings?
russellhltn
Community Administrator
#131
dpace1 wrote:I read somewhere that the church dozen't allow Ham radio training in church buildings?
I don't see a problem with training, as long as it follows Handbook 2: 21.2 and any other rules for non-church meetings.

The bigger issue is installation. From the Facilities Management Guidelines for Meetinghouses and Other Church Property
Wards and stakes should not purchase or accept donated satellite telephone or amateur radio equipment for use in an emergency or for installation in a meetinghouse.
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matthewnielsen
New Member
#132
Hi all,

This thread has all but dried up, but it seems like something that should still be a priority. I realize that if a general authority were to start directing that EMCOMM preparation and training take place it could cause unwanted speculation and worry. This is likely why the stakes are responsible for these things at this point. But, this article made me think there should be a renewed effort to encourage the wards and stakes to get some training.

http://www.heraldextra.com/news/local/u ... eb79e.html

73s from Arizona,
Matthew KX6MRN
Mikerowaved
Community Moderators
#133
matthewnielsen wrote:I realize that if a general authority were to start directing that EMCOMM preparation and training take place it could cause unwanted speculation and worry.
Not necessarily. We just had a Hamfest in Salt Lake City, where Allan F. Packer (WA7BKD) of the Seventy gave the Saturday morning keynote address. The brethren have always pushed the issue of being self-reliant in adverse times and communications has always been an important part of that. providentliving.org was setup to continue to get the word out as to what wards, stakes, and/or individuals can do to prepare.

As far as utilizing amateur radio, it's very different here in Utah where there are nearly 450 stakes along the Wasatch Front. Ham radio can play a part, but there isn't enough spectrum available for each stake here to have their own frequency set aside for nets and emergencies.
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KeithCartwright
New Member
#134
I wonder how many of the LDS stakes in Utah hold a regularly scheduled net for communications to be utilized in case of emergency?
poppytim
New Member
#135
dpace1 wrote:I read somewhere that the church dozen't allow Ham radio training in church buildings?
So NOT True..... We TEACH, Build Antennas and practice good Amateur Practices from the Meeting House Monthly.... Heavenly Father wants and NEEDS Amateurs to be Ready and Prepared!
rmrichesjr
Community Moderators
#136
Fwiw, the first page or so of this thread has some history and details about the policy that (if I understand correctly) prohibits permanent installation of Ham equipment in meetinghouses:

https://tech.lds.org/forum/viewtopic.ph ... ur+antenna
galbraith.steve
New Member
#137
Hey Everyone,
My name is Steve Galbraith my Amateur call sign is KB7ITU. i thought I'd put a bit on here to let you know what we did in the Rexburg, Henry's Fork Stake. I am the Henry's Fork Stake ECS.
in our Stake we actually have at least one ham in each of the 9 wards. the problem we run into was that not all of them are active and short of going door to door and getting on my hands and knees, I could not get the support .
So the way we set up the Stake is as follows. We set up a Stake repeater on a commercial uhf band. We needed to have a way that the Stake President, Bishops and all their Emergency communication specialists could communicate if the conventional forms of communication were down. Plus, some of the called specialist were not ham radio operators so I needed a way to communicate with them. It is suggested in our stake emergency communications plan that all ward ECS's have at least a Technician class license and the Stake ECS at least a General. We now have the Stake Priesthood leadership net each Fast Sunday. We also have the ERC ham radio net for the Stake each Sunday. We have set up a packet radio net for the Stake. For you that don't know what packet radio is. Packet radio is old school email. You don't even need your computer running to receive a mail message. It works over the ham radio air waves.Packet is text only but you are able to pass large lists of need supplies in an emergency in a very short length of time and packet is error free.
Two out of the 9 wards have their own weekly net on the MURS radio band. We use MURS because our wards are so large. In my ward we have set up Block Captains strategically placed throughout the ward in a 8 mile by 4 mile area. Each week we have a net on MURS, which is a license free band like FRS. If there is an emergency each Block overlaps the other so no member of the community is missed. The Block Captains are responsible for checking and reporting on the families in their block. The communicate back to the Ward ECS and if necessary the Ward ECS will contact the Stake ECS for assistance.
For the large are in this part of Idaho, We have 4 Regions in the Idaho Falls Bishop's Storehouse ERC . The ERC is the communication support group for the Church of Jesus Christ of Later day Saints. Each Wednesday night , each Region has their own simplex (non repeater) net, taking a count of the number of members that check in each week. Then at 9pm we go over to the local repeater designated for the ERC. The Net Control operator for the Bishop's Storehouse will ask for a representative from each of the stakes to report on the number of check ins . They will then conduct a training on a pre selected topic.
I know without a doubt that in my Stake, The Lord has lead us by the hand in setting up the communication network . I know this is the Lords work . I feel the Sprite pushing me all the time. It is my hope that the information I have sent out here, will be of use to you. If there is anything I can do to help out please let me know. I would be glad to talk to you.

My contact information:
Phone : 208-417-9843
Email: kb7itu@gmail.com

Sincerely,
Steve Galbraith KB7ITU
Rexburg, Henry's For Stake ECS
markjack63
New Member
#138
the church will not support ham radio at all if fact the shoot down ever attempt to start emergency communication at all. the elders in are ward ask me to teach a class. i told them when i get a letter from the first president office i would start...

Mark
N1SNP
rmrichesjr
Community Moderators
#139
markjack63 wrote:the church will not support ham radio at all if fact the shoot down ever attempt to start emergency communication at all. the elders in are ward ask me to teach a class. i told them when i get a letter from the first president office i would start...

Mark
N1SNP
I was informed that the following resources that may be informative:

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/top ... n?lang=eng

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/top ... s?lang=eng

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/stu ... s?lang=eng

When faced with the possibility of legal action the Church generally takes a very conservative stance. Some years ago, there was a controversy regarding Church involvement with HAM radio. Please see this page: http://www.mara.net/history.htm
munaish
Member
#140
The person who took the ham radio class for my ward moved to another city shortly afterward. Is ham radio the same as amateur radio?
russellhltn
Community Administrator
#141
marnofi wrote:Is ham radio the same as amateur radio?
Yes.

Amateur Radio is it's proper name, but it's often known by it's nickname Ham Radio.
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munaish
Member
#142
Thanks! :)
pbchilds
New Member
#143
OK... In major areas your stake probably can't have its own repeater on 2 meter... You could use 220 0r 440 or even simplex... Simplex might work better in an ate a where there are lots of members...

Mikerowaved wrote:
matthewnielsen wrote:I realize that if a general authority were to start directing that EMCOMM preparation and training take place it could cause unwanted speculation and worry.
Not necessarily. We just had a Hamfest in Salt Lake City, where Allan F. Packer (WA7BKD) of the Seventy gave the Saturday morning keynote address. The brethren have always pushed the issue of being self-reliant in adverse times and communications has always been an important part of that. providentliving.org was setup to continue to get the word out as to what wards, stakes, and/or individuals can do to prepare.

As far as utilizing amateur radio, it's very different here in Utah where there are nearly 450 stakes along the Wasatch Front. Ham radio can play a part, but there isn't enough spectrum available for each stake here to have their own frequency set aside for nets and emergencies.
casper684
Member
#144
In this post I see reference to the "Facilities Management Guidelines for Meetinghouses and Other Church Property" and a link.
I am wondering with the new General Handbook version 12-2021 is the Facilities Management ..... now outdated?
The date on the one linked in this post is 2011 (I believe).
russellhltn
Community Administrator
#145
casper684 wrote: Sun Apr 17, 2022 2:32 am I am wondering with the new General Handbook version 12-2021 is the Facilities Management ..... now outdated?
Interesting theory, but doubtful. What usually gets outdated by a new Handbook is the Official Communications (letters) which tend to act as addendums to the Handbook. A new Handbook doesn't automatically supersede all other guides.

But the question of what the current guideline is is an interesting one. I've seen times when the church leaves outdated stuff on the website. The question is if anyone can find a link from known current information to that particular guide. Off hand, I'm not finding one. What I do find seems rather simplistic, which doesn't sound like a replacement.
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casper684
Member
#146
I was wondering in particular I have reference to the Facilities Management with regards to a "Hold Harmless" form.
Requests by non-members, such as non-profit groups, should be directed to the Stake High Councilor assigned to scheduling. They will communicate with the assigned high councilor. As outlined in the Facilities Management Guidelines, these groups will generally be required to complete a Hold Harmless Agreement form. Just wondering if this is still the case? Thank you..
russellhltn
Community Administrator
#147
casper684 wrote: Sun Apr 17, 2022 4:18 am I was wondering in particular I have reference to the Facilities Management with regards to a "Hold Harmless" form.
Requests by non-members, such as non-profit groups, should be directed to the Stake High Councilor assigned to scheduling. They will communicate with the assigned high councilor. As outlined in the Facilities Management Guidelines, these groups will generally be required to complete a Hold Harmless Agreement form. Just wondering if this is still the case? Thank you..
I'm not sure, but Handbook 35.5.8 would apply. It might be called for in the mentioned "Temporary Use Agreement ".

As I read it, the "Hold Harmless" is to protect the church. In the current legal environment, I don't see that need changing.
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casper684
Member
#148
I did contact my local FM group and was told that the Facilities Management handbook is obsolute and Church General Handbook dated 12.2021 is now the proper source for this question. Basically section 35. Thank you for your help.
grgibbons
New Member
#149
Yes Amateur Radio and HAM radio are the same. At the present time there is no requirement for Morse Code to get a license
JAYoung
New Member
#150
I am a complete novice, but want to be prepared to offer help to my family and ward in the event our cell phones are not in service in an emergency. I don't believe we have any such provision in our ward for ham radio (I will find out), but I need current advice on what equipment is good to purchase (and from what source), and what training should be obtained. If possible, a rough idea of the cost of said equipment would be appreciated. I have emailed MARA and one other person, but have not had a reply. An older post named equipment, but I would very much appreciate updated suggestions. Thank you in advance.
russellhltn
Community Administrator
#151
JAYoung wrote: Wed Nov 09, 2022 12:43 am I need current advice on what equipment is good to purchase (and from what source), and what training should be obtained.
That's a difficult question to answer without knowing more. Being the only person with a radio usually isn't that helpful. You need to know who you can communicate with and what modes and frequencies they use. In the U.S., I'd suggest staring with trying to contact RACES (Radio Amateur Civil Emergency Service) or ARES (Amateur Radio Emergency Service) groups in your area. Typically one is stronger/more organized then the other. RACES groups are affiliated with a local emergency management agency, while ARES groups are organized by the ARRL (American Radio Relay League) and are connected with "served agencies". These might be Salvation Army (who also has their own group SATERN), the Red Cross, local hospitals, etc.

You may also want to explore connecting with CERT (Community Emergency Response Team). While RACES and ARES are more focused on supporting responding agencies, CERT is more about helping your neighbor, but frequently has a radio communication element to it. My stake has been holding CERT training. You'll probably want to explore a bit to find the right group that fits your interests.

Once you know who you will be talking to, you'll know what kind of equipment you'll need. Usually it will be a 2 meter or 2m/70cm transceiver. Either a hand-held or a mobile. There's also that little detail of getting a license. Which one you needs depends on if you need to use HF or not.

ARRL does have some good training, but local groups may have other requirements.

Good luck!
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gregs325
New Member
#152
JAYoung wrote: Wed Nov 09, 2022 12:43 am I am a complete novice, but want to be prepared to offer help to my family and ward in the event our cell phones are not in service in an emergency. I don't believe we have any such provision in our ward for ham radio (I will find out), but I need current advice on what equipment is good to purchase (and from what source), and what training should be obtained. If possible, a rough idea of the cost of said equipment would be appreciated. I have emailed MARA and one other person, but have not had a reply. An older post named equipment, but I would very much appreciate updated suggestions. Thank you in advance.
You need to define:
-Who you want to talk to
-How far away (miles) are they
-What's your budget
-How reliable of communications do you want
russellhltn
Community Administrator
#153
gregs325 wrote: Wed Nov 23, 2022 6:52 pm You need to define:
-Who you want to talk to
-How far away (miles) are they
And the terrain in between.
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Bbelka
New Member
#154
There are a lot of messages and I haven't gone through all of them. I have a license that I got years ago in stake training in Salt Lake City. Anyways, I looked at a couple of the radios that are discussed in this forum and one was the Yaesu FT-2900R mobile. It seems like the range is no farther than 100 miles. What would be the most useful? I know that ham radios can have an endless range depending on conditions. But if I were in Texas, wouldn't I want to reach Salt Lake City?
rmrichesjr
Community Moderators
#155
The posts I could find that mentioned that specific radio model are from 2011, twelve years ago. If you're looking to buy a radio of that model, you might want to check whether it's still available.
russellhltn
Community Administrator
#156
Bbelka wrote: Tue May 23, 2023 6:30 pm But if I were in Texas, wouldn't I want to reach Salt Lake City?
It depends on what your plan is. SLC is a bit far away to help. You probably need to coordinate and work with the local people first.

Also keep in mind that the more powerful the radio, the bigger the batteries that you'll need to power it.

The radio you mention is 2 meter only. Two meters isn't going from TX to UT. You'd want an HF rig (at least 20m and 40m) to do that. It does require a higher grade of license. But because those frequencies involve large antennas, it's not really well-suited for local or portable communication. There's no one band that does it all.
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Libarata
New Member
#157
My ward is revamping our 20 year old emergency plan. I have been tasked with adding a HAM radio blurb. Do any of you have an excerpt I can use as an example? Right now I have the "the church has no official affiliation..." "the following frequencies are not exclusively set aside for church use, but..." I then have the repeater that a stake level member owns and that we would use if needed, and then the primary and secondary simplex frequencies we use for stake nets.

At first glance, i think I have it, but im sure most of your are far more qualified than I haha.

KO4UOA
russellhltn
Community Administrator
#158
You might want to mention that it requires a license to transmit on ham frequencies.
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Libarata
New Member
#159
russellhltn wrote:
> You might want to mention that it requires a license to transmit on ham
> frequencies.

I suppose. When the next line of revisions come down, I will add that. I also messaged the bishop of the nearest ward not in our stake(borders our south) to see if they had radios in their plan, and if they would be interested in establishing a simplex frequency or two for inter ward communication.
adkinsjm
New Member
#160
The issue with this is many “self call” themselves to certain roles. Stick with what the stake is doing. The stake president will know what the area presidency wants to do.
Libarata
New Member
#161
adkinsjm wrote:
> The issue with this is many “self call” themselves to certain roles. Stick
> with what the stake is doing. The stake president will know what the area
> presidency wants to do.


I’m not entirely sure what this was supposed to add to either the thread, or my recent additions to it. I’ve been tasked with providing information, and I’ve reached out to this well of knowledge.
sharp_shepherd
New Member
#162
You can have the amateur license and even a radio or two but if you don't use them on a regular basis then you will not develop the skill to carry out coms when the shummer hits the fan. K9TOB