Tithing refund

A member of our ward and his wife both mistakenly wrote tithing checks on the same Sunday so they paid double. Both checks have cleared the bank and now they don't have the funds they need to meet their monthly obligations. Is it possible to refund a tithing donation that was made by mistake?

I don't know if it's possible. Maybe Central Office (I don't know where you live and how you pay thiting).
But you can give a check from Fast Offering and next mounth they can pay them back to the same account (thiting is already paid!).
This must do with Stake President approval!

mtphillips wrote:A member of our ward and his wife both mistakenly wrote tithing checks on the same Sunday so they paid double. Both checks have cleared the bank and now they don't have the funds they need to meet their monthly obligations. Is it possible to refund a tithing donation that was made by mistake?

In general, donations are not refundable. In this case, since it was an error, I suppose it might be possible, but you would definitely need to talk to Local Unit Support for approval and instructions as to how it could be done.

marianomarini wrote:But you can give a check from Fast Offering and next mounth they can pay them back to the same account (thiting is already paid!).

I would be wary of any attempts to "lend" them money from the ward's Fast Offering (or any other) account -- the instructions on Fast Offerings specifically say that FO payments are not to be repaid (although a FO recipient may later choose to make generous donations, there is not to be any direct correspondence to the aid given).

mtphillips wrote:A member of our ward and his wife both mistakenly wrote tithing checks on the same Sunday so they paid double. Both checks have cleared the bank and now they don't have the funds they need to meet their monthly obligations. Is it possible to refund a tithing donation that was made by mistake?

Because an error was made, it is possible. But the process is lengthy, is handled by Church Headquarters, and probably would not be completed before they would normally pay tithing again.

I think their best approach would be to consider their next tithing contribution already made, and to speak with their bishop concerning how to handle things for this month.

As tithing settlement is an annual affair - it makes little difference when the tithing is paid. The problem is their shortfall during this month. Even though it seems like an easy way to give FO assistance and then have them pay it back - I'm not too comfortable with that.

Ultimately - if there is a need, irrespective of the reasons behind it, then no strings FO assistance is the way to go.

I understand your concern about it. But it seem that a family is in needs, so FO are appropriate.
I don't think is a good thing give to member the impression that the Church is quick to get money but indifferent to member's needs.
I don'y think either that Jesus would have no problem to solve this situation!

marianomarini wrote:I understand your concern about it. But it seem that a family is in needs, so FO are appropriate.

As long as any assistance that is given is given according to the instructions in the Handbook, the bishop has several options to help this family. And if he has any questions, his stake president will also be able to provide valuable guidance and resources.

marianomarini wrote:I understand your concern about it. But it seem that a family is in needs, so FO are appropriate.

No one has said that the family's needs should be disregarded. I think everyone would agree that the bishop should care for families in need.

The concern I raised was simply about treating fast offering funds like a loan. If the family is in need, the bishop can help them. Such assistance is freely given, and is not "paid back."

I just thought of a solution.
Say a member makes a donation in error, a refund can not be made but the category can be changed. Say a family contributed 25 months for a missionary, so he has a positive balance when he comes home. They can decide to move that to tithing or fast offerings or to another missionary (we had that happen a lot).
So if the family does not feel comfortable getting fast offering help then one of the donations can be changed to fast offerings and then the church helps with with fast offereings check.
This can be done at anytime, I remember at tithing settlement we entered a tithing amount as fast offerings for a member six months back. Made the corrections, did a send recieve printed out the corrections and place the printouts with that batch for the aduit.
So if the family does not feel they want to 'waste' fast offereings this can be a useable work around.

Just a thought.

Here's another thought. Create an "other" category as you would for pass-through funds (like money for Young Women Camp or a special Relief Society quilt project). Change the donation from tithing to this pass-through category. Then write a check back to the family. Presto! Done. The "donation" would never be considered charitable. On paper, it would be as if there was a special project and the "excess" funds for that project were refunded AND the special category's balance went back to zero.

I think the Other catagory sounds best, but I would check with your stake financial clerk and get their buy in on whatever method you use, so that when you audit comes around you are covered.

mrrad wrote:Here's another thought. Create an "other" category as you would for pass-through funds (like money for Young Women Camp or a special Relief Society quilt project). Change the donation from tithing to this pass-through category. Then write a check back to the family. Presto! Done. The "donation" would never be considered charitable. On paper, it would be as if there was a special project and the "excess" funds for that project were refunded AND the special category's balance went back to zero.

Well, that's a technical way to do it, but that doesn't mean it's acceptable from a policy perspective. If you can do that with this donation, you could do it with any donation, and refund missionary payments for a missionary who returns early. We've been specifically told that such donations are not to be refunded. So I think care needs to be exercised.

This matter needs approval from CHQ

aebrown wrote:This matter needs approval from CHQ

+1 (fill to keep the forum software happy.)

aebrown wrote:This matter needs approval from CHQ

+1 (fill to keep the forum software happy.)

Certainly, the decision should be made by one higher in rank than a clerk, but at least using the "other" category would keep this problem away from the realm of fast offerings. If we accept that this was an honest mistake then I can't help feeling this isn't the first time someone made such a mistake. And, somewhere beneath "the letter of the law," giving back the money feels like the right thing to do. (And insisting on a long wait does not feel right).

As a financial clerk, I always watched ward missionary balances closely near the end and tried to let donors know that they were done paying BEFORE they made unnecessary donations. I felt it was my responsibilty, and it eliminated the need to sadly tell anyone that they made a non-refundable donation... as if it was entirely their fault. After all, I was the one watching the official balance every month.

mrrad wrote:Change the donation from tithing to this pass-through category.

Can this be done for previous registrations?
If so, fund change could be the easy way!

mrrad wrote: (And insisting on a long wait does not feel right).

I haven't seen anyone insist on a long wait. The clerk could have called Local Unit Support hours ago; I see no reason why the issue could not be resolved very quickly. Be careful and following policy does not have to take significantly longer. The needs of the member should be carefully considered, but this can be done by following policy and getting proper guidance from CHQ -- and it can be done promptly.

mrrad wrote:Certainly, the decision should be made by one higher in rank than a clerk, but at least using the "other" category would keep this problem away from the realm of fast offerings. If we accept that this was an honest mistake then I can't help feeling this isn't the first time someone made such a mistake. And, somewhere beneath "the letter of the law," giving back the money feels like the right thing to do. (And insisting on a long wait does not feel right).

The problem is this is a community forum and we don't know if it's acceptable or not. There is a possibility of Tax Law in this and none of us are tax lawyers. Thus the answer so far has been to contact LUS. I would not want anyone to get the idea of reclassifying donations as "other" as being a means to work around the "no refund" policy is OK until someone at CHQ says it's OK. And as Alan noted, it may depend on the situation.

In this case, I'd say the decision needs to be made by CHQ as to how to handle it. Anything else could land you (and the church) in trouble.

I agree that calling headquarters is the ONLY valid suggestion in this discussion. The only reason I suggested changing the donation to an "other" category was to improve upon the suggestion made immediately before my post (and others) which involved making a mess of the Fast Offering category. To turn this into a Fast Offering issue would be to create a storyline on paper which is much farther from the truth than anything I suggested.

I would be very disappointed if we don't get a follow-up on this forum when someone finds out exactly how headquarters officially wants to clear this up.

Speaking as a former Local Unit Support employee, please call for instructions. Changing the donation to Other and writing a refund, without receiving permission and proper instructions, is completely against policy.

My first posting was based on me calling CHQ about something close to this and the suggestion to move it to fast offerings so that the Bishop could offer help more freely.

But what is the main role of the finance clerk? I see it as the eyes for the Bishopric. That person should be looking at anomalies. Warning signs and helpsfor families, especially those with missionaries in the field. If I saw onemember of a family submit a tithing check and then a different member of thesame family I would have questioned it, especially if that was not the trend.When I was finance clerk I saw the family patterns and this would have alertedme, maybe a phone call asking if they meant to pay twice.

But then that pings on magnifying your calling, what you feel your callingentails and what you think you should be doing. Are you the safeguard or just a check processor?

When I was finance clerk I saw the family patterns and this would have alertedme, maybe a phone call asking if they meant to pay twice.

But then that pings on magnifying your calling, what you feel your callingentails and what you think you should be doing. Are you the safeguard or just a check processor?[/SIZE][/font]

This begs an interpretation of when a donation is made. Is the donation made when the envelope is turned over to the bishopric, when the deposit envelope is sealed, or when the drop is made at the bank? At what point does a donation become "non-refundable?"

I wouldn't call about a double donation. It is none of my business if the family had extra income, wanted to pay more tithing, is trying to get ahead a month or what ever reason. How much tithing a family pays is between them and the Lord, with the Bishop as an intermediary.

As a clerk, when I sit down to process donations my job is to record the donations correctly and get them to the bank. I would never call a family and ask if they wanted me to return a donation. How would you account for that? While this situation creates additional work it also creates an audit trail to protect all parties involved. Process the donations, make the bank drop, and call CHQ for additional help if needed.

nbflint wrote: At what point does a donation become "non-refundable?"

I know what CHQ said to us, and I'd say you'd better call your stake and CHQ BEFORE you proceed with any ideas. Yes, true mistakes are true mistakes, but there is also the potential for fraud...giving an amount now, generating the "paper trail" with canceled checks, bank statements and donation slips, receipts, year-end or monthly donation summaries, and then asking for a refund later, which doesn't generate any trail- ESPECIALLY if a well-meaning clerk "hid" it.

Fraud hopefully is very rare within the church, but must be guarded for vigilantly by every unit throughout the church, and you don't want to seem a part of any of it by changing things...

We must always be above reproach, to "avoid the very appearance of evil." Every unit must work to ensure the integrity of the donation system, from the moment the envelope is sealed by the giver, so that the tax documents we all need to report to government agencies remain without question, as they are now. If we lose the perceived integrity of these documents in the eyes of the outside world, we will all suffer. That's why CHQ has these policies.

Call you stake. Let them send it up the ladder...

kisaac wrote: if a well-meaning clerk...

Wow! sorry about my post. I didn't mean to sound grumpy or accusatory about any of us trying to help out...

I should have said: "be careful. don't do anything you'll have to answer for later to stake auditors, your file leaders, CHQ or the government."

Finance and donation laws are specific, and nobody wants to get caught in doing something "nice," but wrong.

We had a similar situation last year where a member was distracted while filling out their donation slip and check and wrote a tithing check for 100% of their monthly income instead of 10%. They contacted the bishop the next day and he contacted CHQ and a few faxes later, he was told that the donation was being refunded and transferred into the "other" category and I was instructed to write them a refund check from that category.

funaddict wrote:and he contacted CHQ and a few faxes later,

As long as CHQ is in on it. I wouldn't want anyone do decide to do that on their own.

I'm glad to hear that there can be a solution which 1) Doesn't involve Fast Offering funds, 2) Doesn't require a "lengthy" wait, 3) Doesn't involve tax lawyers, 4) Doesn't involve fraud charges, 5) Does involve the "Other" category and 6) Is approved (on a case-by-case basis) by Church Headquarters. Perhaps there was too much "drama" in the rest of our discussion.

mrrad wrote:I'm glad to hear that there can be a solution which 1), 2), 3), 4), 5) and 6). Perhaps there was too much "drama" in the rest of our discussion.

Well, just as a matter of clarification, this is NOT the way Church Headquarters handled our problem two months ago, in which the situation was nearly identical. Nevertheless, the thing to do is still to call Hq and have them provide instructions.

lajackson wrote:Well, just as a matter of clarification, this is NOT the way Church Headquarters handled our problem two months ago,

nor ours...

Is there a phone number to talk to someone about getting a refund for a donation?
My app told me three times my donation was rejected. It never asked for a confirmation. Everything looked like nothing was working. I should have stopped earlier. Upon checking my bank I found all three went through. So now I have paid 30% of my income to the church. Makes life a little tight to say the least.
This is entirely the fault of the church software. I have all the screen shots to support my claim.
Who can I call?

pettyk12 wrote: Fri Sep 17, 2021 10:03 am Is there a phone number to talk to someone about getting a refund for a donation?
My app told me three times my donation was rejected. It never asked for a confirmation. Everything looked like nothing was working. I should have stopped earlier. Upon checking my bank I found all three went through. So now I have paid 30% of my income to the church. Makes life a little tight to say the least.

You can get that information from your ward clerk/ward finance clerk.

I'd hurry as I don't know as they're open on weekends.

russellhltn wrote: Fri Sep 17, 2021 10:46 am

pettyk12 wrote: Fri Sep 17, 2021 10:03 am Is there a phone number to talk to someone about getting a refund for a donation?
My app told me three times my donation was rejected. It never asked for a confirmation. Everything looked like nothing was working. I should have stopped earlier. Upon checking my bank I found all three went through. So now I have paid 30% of my income to the church. Makes life a little tight to say the least.

You can get that information from your ward clerk/ward finance clerk.

I'd hurry as I don't know as they're open on weekends.

I would recommend the clerk call the Global Service Department first and get instructions. The last time I had to deal with an error for an online donation the bishop needed to forward the explanation to a specific email address. That was a few years ago but I expect the bishop still has to be involved in the process.