Handbook Reference for who should sit with the bishop during sacrament meeting...

I was looking in the Handbook (1/2) for who should sit with the bishop during sacrament meeting if both of the counselors are gone.

Can anyone point me in the right direction? Searching hasn't turned up anything (but I'm sure my word choice is poor and I'm just not able to find it).

Thanks~!

nathangg wrote:I was looking in the Handbook (1/2) for who should sit with the bishop during sacrament meeting if both of the counselors are gone.

When the entire bishopric is not there, the stake president designates who presides. See Section 18.2 in Handbook 2.

But that section mentions only one replacement (typically the HPGL). That seems to imply to me that it's just fine to have one presiding officer on the stand. So I see no reason to have anyone there as an authority figure, but if the bishop would like someone to help him with logistics, he could invite anyone he wants.

I once had the teachers and deacon quorums presidents sit with me. The TQ president was excited because he got to run the pulpit up and down.

I usually have the EQ president and the HPGL if both counselors are gone. I like having someone else on the stand in case there is an emergency or some other problem someone needs to attend to. The High Councilor for our ward could be another choice. If nothing else, it would keep him awake...

I just sit on my own. No big deal.

nathangg wrote:I was looking in the Handbook (1/2) for who should sit with the bishop during sacrament meeting if both of the counselors are gone.

There is no requirement for anyone to sit with him. Except for Fast Sunday, there will normally be other speakers on the stand.

In the most recent handbook version:

29.2.1.2

Presiding at Sacrament Meeting
"The bishop presides at sacrament meeting unless a member of the stake presidency, an Area Seventy in his area, or a General Authority attends. If the bishop and his counselors are not able to attend sacrament meeting, the stake president designates who presides. Normally he designates the elders quorum president. However, he could invite another priesthood holder, preferably a high priest or elder."

No mention of anything special if it's just the Bishop.

I think there's still a potential difference between who is presiding, and where the presiding leader sits. The current Handbook does speak specifically about the "presiding" aspect, but from what I can tell, is silent regarding where anyone needs to sit during sacrament meeting. Including the Bishop. I'm not saying the Bishop should be sitting with his family in the congregation , but I do find it interesting that there's no instructions requiring the presiding leader sitting up front (many units throughout the world meet in various locations which do not have a stand or maybe even pulpit). So my takeaway is that the local leaders (Bishops/Stake Presidents) have discretion to determine what they feel is best for situations where the Bishop would be "alone" on the stand... or what to do when a Stake Counselor attends but could possibly wish to sit with his family and still be the presiding officer.

I know there's a lot I don't know, so if anyone knows where additional guidance is provided, please share!

BrianEdwards wrote: Mon Oct 25, 2021 2:41 pm The current Handbook does speak specifically about the "presiding" aspect, but from what I can tell, is silent regarding where anyone needs to sit during sacrament meeting.

General Handbook 29.2.1.1 Item #3

Acknowledgment of presiding authorities or other leaders who are visiting. Presiding authorities and visiting high councilors should be invited to sit on the stand. General Officers are also invited to sit on the stand unless they are attending their home ward.

That's all I can find.

Well there you are! Thanks for the clarification, it's spelled out pretty clearly here.

BrianEdwards wrote: Mon Oct 25, 2021 3:23 pm Well there you are! Thanks for the clarification, it's spelled out pretty clearly here.

Only as far as visitors go. It still doesn't address who should be on the stand in normal situations.

I found it interesting because on one hand it acknowledges the common practice, but I can't find anywhere else it's addressed. You'd think it would at least say the bishop should be on the stand.

Elder Boyd K. Packer of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles used to say that you cannot preside from the congregation.

One important item in this discussion is the instruction about the sacrament in 18.9.4:

After the prayer, priesthood holders reverently pass the bread to the members. The presiding leader receives it first, after which there is no set order.

If the stake president opts not to sit on the stand, he is still presiding. Some deacon is going to have to find him in the congregation to receive the sacrament first.

Two things:

1. This thread, from over 10 years ago, is back from the dead! (I know we believe in resurrection, however, I didn't know it applied to this topic ). Thank you to those who started replying again. It has been fun to read through the new comments and ponder the ministering and administering responsibilities of various calling-holders in the Church and how to better be a servant leader.

2. Is there a reference for the below quote somewhere? I've started searching the internet for a proper attribution but I haven't found anything yet.

lajackson wrote: Mon Oct 25, 2021 5:36 pm Elder Boyd K. Packer of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles used to say that you cannot preside from the congregation.

~Thank you,
Nathan

nathangg wrote: Is there a reference for the below quote somewhere?

lajackson wrote: Elder Boyd K. Packer of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles used to say that you cannot preside from the congregation.

Elder Boyd K. Packer, BYU Devotional, October 15, 1996. The exact quote (I wrote the previous from memory) is

The one who presides in a meeting should sit on the stand and sit close to the one conducting. It is a bit difficult to preside over a meeting from the congregation.

The talk was also covered in an article in the Deseret News the next day.

Another reason why the person presiding might want to sit on the stand is mentioned in General Handbook, 29.1:

General Handbook 29.1 wrote: Occasionally something happens during a meeting that the presiding officer feels a need to clarify. For example, someone might teach incorrect doctrine. If that happens, the presiding officer should make a clarification without embarrassing anyone.

It would be easier for them to go to the pulpit to make a clarification if they're already on the stand. But again, it's not clearly stated that the person presiding must sit on the stand.

From what I’ve seen in my ward, if neither counselors are there than sometimes the ward clerk or executive Secretary is asked to sit up there with the bishop. Nothing in the handbook for or against that though.

Elders Quorum President

There is nothing that says anyone has to sit on the stand with the bishop when his counselors are gone. He is perfectly free to sit alone if he wishes to do so. The same is true when the entire bishopric is gone and someone else is assigned by the stake president to conduct, such as the elders quorum president.

Boyd K. Packer addresses where the presiding officer sits in his talk “The Unwritten Order of Things.” He doesn’t say “in his opinion” during this talk. I won’t spoil it, because this is a talk worth digesting.

That's the same talk that lajackson referenced earlier in the thread. Although this 1996 talk is informative and definitely contains helpful principles, it was not given in an official setting (General Conference, church training, Handbook), and I would not give the same weight to what an Apostle says in a BYU Devotional (I'm sure there's lots of interesting quotes from Apostles at BYU Devotionals!). And there's a lot of old statements regarding church policy and management from Apostles in official settings, which are based on sound principles, but the application of those principles may be different in our day. The unwritten order of things nowadays compared to how the Church operated when I was young, is definitely not the same!

BrianEdwards wrote: Sun Feb 19, 2023 12:14 pm Although this 1996 talk is informative and definitely contains helpful principles, it was not given in an official setting (General Conference, church training, Handbook), and I would not give the same weight to what an Apostle says in a BYU Devotional (I'm sure there's lots of interesting quotes from Apostles at BYU Devotionals!). And there's a lot of old statements regarding church policy and management from Apostles in official settings, which are based on sound principles, but the application of those principles may be different in our day.

Especially since there have been at least 3 major revisions to the handbook since then – 1998, 2010, and 2020 – and a lot of official communication letters.