Wireless microphones

From the wiki https://tech.lds.org/wiki/Sound_system_ ... nghouses):

"The Presiding Bishopric has approved the use of wireless microphones in LDS stake centers. New and retrofitted sound systems being installed will begin to have one portable UHF wireless microphone system provided with the sound system. This one microphone is provided and cared for by the FM group.

Additional wireless microphones are available for purchase by the stake through Distribution Services. The wireless microphones distributed by Church headquarters are the only ones officially supported."

Our stake president has requested that we purchase 2 new wireless microphone for the stake center (1 is a replacement). According to the bolded portions of the quoted section above, we should be able to get one from the FM group and also purchase one from Distribution Services.

Well, our sound system was replaced only a couple years ago, but the wireless mic we have is not "cared for" by the FM group. And my initial queries lead me to believe that they are unaware of this policy, which is not the first time there has been something out of synch between what we read on the wiki/lds.org, and what the FM group is told through their channels.

Questions:

(1) I have searched through the online Distribution Services in the unit section attempting to find the elusive "officially supported" wireless microphone. Has anyone else had luck identifying these? Or will I have to -- gasp -- actually use the phone?

In the absence of the availability of said officially supported devices, I will likely take the path of asking for forgiveness later.

(2) In terms of quality, one of the problems we have with the current wireless mic is that it works fine in the cultural hall but gets terrible feedback/interference/noise in the chapel. Which, of course, is where the visiting authorities use it. As we look for a new one, has anyone out there been pleased with their wireless mic? (And yes, we've changed the battery...) I have found a few suggested models in the history of the above wiki page, but am looking for some empirical data.

We have just received notice of a visiting general auxiliary member who has requested 2 wireless mics for a fireside. This is our 3rd event in the last 12 months with a visiting authority, and they have all requested 2 wireless mics. So... I'm rather eager to get this taken care of.

Any support and advice is welcome.

I'd suggest going though a member of the stake presidency to talk to the FM group. In my experience, the FM group is far more responsive when approached by the stake presidency then by the STS directly.

sgcurtis wrote:We have just received notice of a visiting general auxiliary member who has requested 2 wireless mics for a fireside. This is our 3rd event in the last 12 months with a visiting authority, and they have all requested 2 wireless mics.

There's your ammo. Use it.

sgcurtis wrote:In terms of quality, one of the problems we have with the current wireless mic is that it works fine in the cultural hall but gets terrible feedback/interference/noise in the chapel.

Feedback is a function of the mic hearing the speakers. The mic may be "too hot" for the chapel sound system. The wireless mic I've seen has a level control in the back so it can be adjusted. What kind of wireless mic do you have? I personally dislike lavaliere mics for PA work. The mic is too far from the speaker's mouth to get a good level before feedback. The mic the FM group gave us is a handheld.

As for interference/noise, that's a function of what frequency it's using. There must be something in the area that's causing problems. The only thing I can think of that is standard to church systems is the transmitter for the hearing impaired that operates on 72MHz. You may need to try another channel.

To satisfy these requests from visiting authorities in the past, our stake has rented Sennheiser wireless microphones. They have performed flawlessly. The receiver units have the ability to scan their entire frequency range and identify which frequencies are currently free from interference. This coming weekend, we are having stake conference and have a visiting Seventy who has requested two wireless microphones for the Saturday evening session. We decided to purchase a pair of Sennheiser EW 135 G3s. I was able to get two brand new units (one channel B, the other channel G) from a store on eBay for $455 each. This particular model has a sync feature that allows you to automatically set the microphone to whatever frequency you have selected on the receiver. After selecting a frequency, you push the sync button on the front panel, then hold the microphone close to the front panel, where it receives an infrared signal and tunes itself to the same frequency. This operation had to be performed manually on the older models that we have rented.

The Offically supported microphones are availble in (2) varieties. A handheld version, and a Lapel Mic. both are manufactured by Audio Technica, and represent somewhat of a custom kit made for the church by it's supplier from normal parts. Each kit includes (1) base station(ATW-R200), (1) Mic either the Lavalier and body pack(ATW-T210), or handheld variety(ATW-T220), and a carying case for storage.

If you are unable to find it through the online store, you can consider ordering through the FM group, who orders the same stuff but through a diffrent channel, and then transfer funds to cover the extra mics.

If you order them through the FM, you can order the entire Kit by its MTS (Meeting House Technical Services) Part Number:
Lavalier Kit - ATW-2129-PKG
Hand Held Kit - ATW-2120-PKG

Additionally you could order 1 Kit and alternate mics the MTS part numbers for those are the same as the manufacturer part numbers

For Volume Control, both of these mics have gain (volume) adjustments built into the individual mics in the batter compartement area in case you have to move it between rooms for regular meetings, and say sunday school classrooms.

StevePoulsen wrote:The Offically supported microphones are availble in (2) varieties. A handheld version, and a Lapel Mic.

Any chance of getting a headset version? I find that lapel mics tend not to live up to expectations because they are too far away from the user's mouth. Feedback limits how far it can be turned up.

RussellHltn wrote:Any chance of getting a headset version? I find that lapel mics tend not to live up to expectations because they are too far away from the user's mouth. Feedback limits how far it can be turned up.

While I am not aware of any plans to do so at the moment, I will check with the decision makers to see if it is a possibility. I suspect that like most things it will depend on how much desire there is.

Over the past 2 years my Stake in south central Pennsylvania have bought 4 Audio-tech 2000 handheld and 2 wireless lapel mic systems the same series. They work great with my FM manager and I walked way out in the parking lot and they were clear as a bell. We run then though a Mackie 1602 mixer. I also always remove the batteries when they are not in use, Use fresh batteries. I now get asked to do Conference webcast in other Stakes in the state. I wish the Church had a national account with Guitar Center. They do have fare prices. Bro Fish I would love to do business with you.

When using a lapel mic for Gospel Doctrine say in the chapel, you will get much better results if you unplug the pulpit mic. Just need to open the cabinet and unplug the mic that's there and plug in the lapel mic. The reason this works better is because when you have two microphones (esp. the more sensitive mics) your total system gain is higher. When you close one of the mics--by unplugging it since you are not using it--you reduce the total system gain. This allows you increase the gain or volume on a specific mic to a higher level.

An analogy is like a sink with an overflow drain. If you have two faucets flowing into a sink it will overflow faster than if you just have one faucet. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ln_NstCb3hA

Another way to get the gain even higher is to filter out the troublesome frequencies using an equalizer like the Behringer MINIFBQ FBQ800. You can connect the wireless mic directly to the equalizer using a 1/4 jack plug and then plug the RCA back into the sound system (using a crab box if needed)

I think the church systems use automatic mixers that take care of that. Only active channels are used.

russellhltn wrote: Tue Nov 12, 2024 4:54 am I think the church systems use automatic mixers that take care of that. Only active channels are used.

That is correct, that has been the case in any system put in since the 1980s.
From what our installer said when our new system was installed in 2020, the pulpit mic takes priority over all other inputs, but all of the channels will automatically adjust the volume up/down to keep the volume the same.

Aaron Z

The pulpit microphone in all of our buildings are sensitive enough to pick up background noises easily. So it will be switched on, esp. if you have someone speaking near the pulpit in a live setting. You can measure the maximum gain before feedback by turning the volume knob up on the receiver for the lapel mic. Try plugging the lapel mic in both with and without the podium mic plugged in. In our experience you can increase the volume much more now that the podium is unplugged. The reason that lapel mics are so sensitive is that ours are omnidirectional and condenser type. The pulpit microphone is condenser but is cardioid (directional) (ES905CL).

Using handheld mics pick up much less noise because they are not omnidirectional and they are not condenser type but are dynamic. That eliminates a lot of the feedback BUT requires whoever is speaker to hold it closer to their mouth.

Also see
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z2ceO8D_MUw

jbejar wrote: Tue Nov 12, 2024 3:53 am When using a lapel mic for Gospel Doctrine say in the chapel, you will get much better results if you unplug the pulpit mic.

I don't know much about the tech side of connecting microphones, but I worry about the practical aspect of making sure everyone knows (and remembers) the system. I imagine the next ward coming in for sacrament meeting and being annoyed because "someone keeps unplugging" the pulpit microphone. If you do this, I'd recommend taping a sign on the pulpit that explains. Or, could you make a fabric cap for the pulpit microphone to prevent it from picking up sound when it's not in use (maybe tied to the microphone stem with a string)? That would be more visible and easy to take on and off, rather than getting up and starting to speak, realizing it's not working, then needing to bend down, open the cabinet door, and find the microphone plug.

Since it should be on an automatic mixer, if the pulpit mic is picking up sound to a noticeable extent, the solution might be a simple a lowering the mic so it's not pointed to the ceiling speakers.

I'll also note that the automatic mixers makes setting the feedback point a little tricky as the feedback point depends on what mic is on. Turn it too high and everything may seem ok until a particular mic is triggered "on" and then you've got not just a little feedback, but runaway feedback.

Rather than pushing for maximum volume on the wireless, you may want to using a different remote mic, or even a headset.