Tech Forum Archive

Non-Refundable Donations/Accounts

26 postsstarted by coloradotechie-p40 9,097 viewsoriginal topic

coloradotechie-p40
Member
#1
A question came up via refunding members money... I thought I'd ask here to see if I can better answer the question...

Specifically, I KNOW that tithing and fast offering donations are non-refundable, but what about payments to a specific missionary sub account or "other" accounts?

For example, we have an "Other" [I think now it is called "Authorized something or other"... it used to be just "Other:Scout Camp" ) account called scout camp. Because of a miscommunication, both the wife and the husband make a payment for their sons scout camp. It seems like it would be okay to refund the money?

And then, what about missionary sub-accounts? I saw this today:
Alan_Brown wrote:I think you hit the nail on the head when you said that the non-refundable nature of the donations is the key point.
In the past I've heard that the ward missionary account is non-refundable, but what about donations made to a sub-account under ward missionary, e.g. "Elder Smith"?

For example, what if a family (divorced parents + extended family) contributes more than $400/month on average and the missionary comes home and there is still money in the sub-account?

I know in the past this has happened in our ward, however, ward members contributed most of the funds and thus the extra was transferred to the "Ward Missionary" account.

What happens if the ward doesn't contribute any funds and the amount left in the sub-account after the missionary returns home was 100% paid by the family? (cases where this could happen would be if the extended family isn't keeping track of who is paying what amounts or the payments come in spurts and near the end of the mission a family member pays more money than what is needed).

In trying to keep an objective view about it, I feel like I can see both sides: sometimes extended families don't talk and it is likely that individuals from out-of-state wouldn't know the status of how much money has been contributed...so a large payment near the end of the mission would likely cause this issue and an overpayment would be likely in this situation (especially if the money comes in spurts).

Anyhow, the only thing I've heard is that "it is up to the Bishop". Is there any further guidance in these cases? (E.g. something in the handbook?)

Thanks~!
aebrown
Community Administrator
#2
coloradotechie wrote:For example, we have an "Other" [I think now it is called "Authorized something or other"... it used to be just "Other:Scout Camp" ) account called scout camp. Because of a miscommunication, both the wife and the husband make a payment for their sons scout camp. It seems like it would be okay to refund the money?
That is correct. This is covered in the Understanding and Using the “Other” Category training course on slides 5-9. For the Other account, returning unused funds to the donor is the right thing to do.

(BTW, it's "Other:Authorized Member Financed Activities" now.)
coloradotechie wrote:In the past I've heard that the ward missionary account is non-refundable, but what about donations made to a sub-account under ward missionary, e.g. "Elder Smith"?

For example, what if a family (divorced parents + extended family) contributes more than $400/month on average and the missionary comes home and there is still money in the sub-account?
You never refund donations to the Ward Missionary account. It doesn't matter whether the funds are tracked in a subcategory or in the main Ward Missionary category. In the MLS Software Manual, we read: "Contributions to the ward missionary fund that have not been used when a missionary is released should be kept in the ward missionary fund and used as needed. Never refund missionary contributions to a donor."
coloradotechie wrote:Anyhow, the only thing I've heard is that "it is up to the Bishop". Is there any further guidance in these cases? (E.g. something in the handbook?)

This one is definitely not up to the bishop. Refunding missionary contributions could cause major problems for the tax status of the Church and for the deductibility of member donations to the ward missionary fund.
Questions that can benefit the larger community should be asked in a public forum, not a private message.
lajackson
Community Moderators
#3
coloradotechie wrote:Because of a miscommunication, both the wife and the husband make a payment for their sons scout camp. It seems like it would be okay to refund the money?

Yes. And the contribution that remains is Non Charitable.
coloradotechie wrote:In the past I've heard that the ward missionary account is non-refundable, but what about donations made to a sub-account under ward missionary, e.g. "Elder Smith"?

Not refundable.
coloradotechie wrote:. . . what if . . . there is still money in the sub-account?

No matter what the reason, contributions to the missionary fund are contributions to the Church, just the same as tithing or fast offering, and are not refunded.

It is in the current Handbook. (I am not where I can access the Handbook to give you the page number.) I think it is also on the donation slip.
russellhltn
Community Administrator
#4
Alan_Brown wrote:You never refund donations to the Ward Missionary account.
Question - can you call it an error an reclassify it?
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mfmohlma
Senior Member
#5
lajackson wrote:No matter what the reason, contributions to the missionary fund are contributions to the Church, just the same as tithing or fast offering, and are not refunded.

It is in the current Handbook. (I am not where I can access the Handbook to give you the page number.) I think it is also on the donation slip.
Page 156, 2006 revision.
ecotim
New Member
#6
I had this in my unit when parents over paid for their sons mission. CHQ said that the finds can not be refunded, but can be moved to tithing or fast offerings, or any other donation. The members should be asked where they would like the funds transferred.
gregwanderson
Senior Member
#7
If this truly is acceptable within church policies, then I would think the original donations should be changed (in the View/Update Donations area) rather than creating transfers.
My real name is Greg Anderson.
coloradotechie-p40
Member
#8
GregAnderson wrote:If this truly is acceptable within church policies, then I would think the original donations should be changed (in the View/Update Donations area) rather than creating transfers.
I just spoke with LUS and they said re-classifying from a missionary donation to a tithing or fast offering donation is okay (but DO NOT refund the money). The representative on the phone told me that just going back to that donation batch and modifying the donation would be fine.

So, in all of this, would the best way to prevent this from happening in the future be to analyze ward missionary sub-account balances every month and then let the member(s) know immediately if they've gone over?

Is there a better way? Is it even a clerk's responsibility? (I ask because I wonder how members see this donation... do they see it as "paying for my child's mission" or do they see it as "donating to the Church as an equalized payment"?) I suppose an overpayment on a missionary sub-account would definitely bring this to the forefront...

In the end I'm just not sure how much I should be scrutinizing the ward missionary sub-account balances... usually we look at them once a month or once every other month... but we were never calculating the projected overpayment:

Code: 

Projected Overpayment = Amount in sub account MINUS (Months left TIMES $400 )
:)

Thanks~!
gregwanderson
Senior Member
#9
Way back in the olden days when I was allowed to create Ward Mission sub-caterogies ( ;) ) I liked giving them names like "Elder Smith-July 2012". Then I knew that Elder Smith's final payment would be in July 2012. But since Elder Smith actually started his mission in August 2010 and he's not coming home until August 2012, his family might think they should donate in August 2012. But that would be a 25th payment!

Sometimes missionaries "finish" two or three weeks early or late, depending on when the transfers happen. And that might result in the ward being charged for only 23 months or being charged for 25 months. No matter what happens I would think it is completely appropriate for the clerk to track this and inform the person who is trying to assume responsibility for the 24 payments. If there are confidentiality issues then let the Bishop handle the informing. There might be some who would be offended to learn that they gave a "non-required" and non-refundable "extra" payment. And if that's a sensitive thing I'd rather have the Bishop take care of it.

Since I can't customize the sub-category names I have created a spreadsheet to track the missionaries from the Ward. I'm actually very pleased with it because, month by month, it tracks who's out, how many months they've been out and how much the ward "owes" per month for the total of missionaries serving. I guess it would be nice if such tracking were built into MLS. Like... maybe the expense could contain something like "Elder Wilford Smith Payment #5" as a part of its name.
My real name is Greg Anderson.
funaddict-p40
New Member
#10
In the case of an accidental overpayment, is it acceptable to have another missionary's family to make a payment to the family that overpaid, and then apply the overpayment to the second missionary's account? For example: Elder Smith comes home you find out that his family has overpaid by $300. Elder Jones' family pays $300 to the Smith family and $100 to the Ward Missionary account towards Elder Jones' mission. You then apply the $300 overpayment to Elder Jones. The Smiths get their $300 back and Elder Jones has $400 applied to his account.

Also, is it possible to get that 25th payment that was taken out of the Ward missionary fund credited back? We've had 3 missionaries return and 2 were charged for 25 payments. Neither of them extended their mission call past the standard 24 months. Another missionary gave his farewell talk today, (Nov. 14) but I noticed his $400 was already taken out on Nov. 4.

Thanks,
Alan
gregwanderson
Senior Member
#11
The problem with the Jones family making a payment directly to the Smith family is that you run into a very messy situation involving the "charitable donation" situation. It would be much better (and it's apparently acceptable) to change the donation(s) made by the Smith family so that $300 of it becomes Tithing or Fast Offering (or some other charitable donation) instead of "Ward Missionary." Consult the Smith family but leave the Jones folks out of it. It's none of their business and it doesn't need to be.
My real name is Greg Anderson.
jonesrk
Church Employee
#12
funaddict wrote: Another missionary gave his farewell talk today, (Nov. 14) but I noticed his $400 was already taken out on Nov. 4.
That is standard. The first payment is taken out for the month they are leaving. The payments are taken out the first part of the month like all the rest, even if they aren't entering the MTC until the end of the month.
lisavawdrey
New Member
#13
My husband had someone tell him today that they had prepaid their entire mission beforehand and then didn't end up going out and when he tried to get his money back he was told he wouldn't be reimbursed is this true?
aebrown
Community Administrator
#14
lisavawdrey wrote:My husband had someone tell him today that they had prepaid their entire mission beforehand and then didn't end up going out and when he tried to get his money back he was told he wouldn't be reimbursed is this true?
The Tithing and Other Offerings donation slip makes it clear that "all donations become the Church's property and will be used at the Church's sole discretion." It is the longstanding policy of the Church that donations cannot be refunded. In particular, missionary donations cannot be refunded, since doing so would mean it's not really a charitable donation, and would put at risk the tax deductibility of all missionary donations.

Note, however, that although donations cannot be refunded, they can be recategorized. So if a donation is not needed for missionary purposes anymore, its category could be changed to tithing or fast offering, or some other charitable donation category.
Questions that can benefit the larger community should be asked in a public forum, not a private message.
gregwanderson
Senior Member
#15
From the way you described it, lisavawdrey, the donor is not happy with the "no refunds" policy. And, since you used the word "reimbursed," it seems that we're not on the same page about the church's concept of how missionary funds work.

Let's deal with the problem of the unhappy donor first. Considering that the ward missionary fund (in the USA) would be charged $9,600 if someone is a full-time missionary for 24 months, I presume you mean that a young man put in that same amount before serving. Usually, a family that can afford to donate that much all-at-once will be more wealthy than the average donor, so it's conceivable that the parents would pay that much in tithing within a one or two-year period anyway. The donor should request that the donation category be changed from "Ward Mission Fund" to "Tithing" and then not pay any additional tithing for a while "until it all balances out." The donor could also request that the money be divided between multiple charitable categories to include Fast Offering and Perpetual Education Fund, for example.

If, however, this is a young donor who worked three summers as a teenager to earn that money and it's effectively his "life savings" and it's financially devastating to have donated that money, then I would suggest that he work with his Bishop to request a refund. We have seen examples on this forum of members who mistakenly donated more than they intended to and it was financially devastating. Like this example where someone donated 100% tithing one month instead of just 10%. There is a chance that, on a case-by-case basis, such a refund would be approved (…and we've read about examples of that in these forums).

The other issue is how the church uses missionary funds. Again, the ward mission fund is responsible for $400 per month per missionary. But I suspect there isn't an area in the whole world where the church actually spends exactly $400 per missionary per month to support missionaries. It's an arbitrary number. That's why it's charitable… because the donor has no control over that money once it goes to the ward fund and the ward has no control over it after it's taken by Church Headquarters each month. If I had a son on a mission and it cost exactly $400 per month to support him and I paid that exact amount then the tax authorities would take issue with the idea that my donation is "charitable." Instead, the funding for full-time missionaries is far more complex than that and, within the charitable structure, it works out.

When you use the word "reimbursed" it makes it sound like a donor is buying something specific with their donations. This is not the case. Your donation is used by the church as the church's authorities see fit. You will not "receive what you paid for" from the church and there is, therefore, nothing to "refund" when you don't get what you paid for. The tax statement you receive from the church each year specifies that you received no specific, tangible, material benefits as a result of your donation.

But this is yet another reminder that it is not a good idea to donate to the ward missionary fund in advance. Bishopric members and clerks should advise donors carefully about this before blindly accepting a $9,600 contribution to the ward mission fund. (In other discussions on this forum we learn that wards aren't even supposed to have excess missionary funds for more than a few months anyway.) There are countless reasons why a missionary might not complete the full 24 months of a mission. (Did you ever know anyone who was injured playing sports at the MTC and, thanks to necessary surgeries and physical therapy, had to leave missionary service for several months? Did you ever know anyone who, in that situation, resumed college and/or got married and never went back to being a full-time missionary? There was no scandal but, nevertheless, they didn't serve for very long.)
My real name is Greg Anderson.
lisavawdrey
New Member
#16
Thank you for the replies. I have a better understanding of how it all works. And now get why it's not so easy to refund this money. Since I don't know this guy personally, maybe he did work on getting it back through the bishop, if he was in dire need of it. I was just curious about it. And your replies put it in a better light now. BTW, have any of you seen this upfront donation for a person's entire mission before? Or is it pretty obsolete?

Thanks again!
gregwanderson
Senior Member
#17
Yes, I did know a family that donated $400 each month when Son #1 was on a mission and, when he finished, they kept donating about $200 per month in anticipation of Son #2 going on a mission (so that the monthly hit to their finances would be smaller during the second son's mission). In the end, it all worked out and the second son served a mission as expected.

But this is tricky for the ward financial clerk to track. The software currently used for tracking ward finances cannot account for donations to cover the obligation for a missionary who hasn't even received his call yet. So the clerk will have to track that in a separate spreadsheet or some other manner. Meanwhile, the stake leaders do regularly check the account balances in the wards and they will notice when the ward has "more than they need" in the missionary fund. They will ask the ward to give that money to some other ward that really "needs" it or to send it to the church's general missionary fund. The stake leaders don't know from the bank statement that some family is donating "in advance" and if the ward clerk isn't paying close-enough attention he'll give that money to another unit… and the family's "missionary savings account" that they were trying to have within the ward's mission fund is gone.

I'm also aware of a situation where a missionary's grandfather donated about $2500 at the start of the mission but then that missionary was injured in the MTC, came home and never returned to complete the mission. So that money just eventually went to the general missionary fund under orders from the stake.

It's better if the donor sets the money aside in a regular savings account of their own and then draws from it when it's time to make donations to the church.
My real name is Greg Anderson.
funaddict
New Member
#18
There are ways a missionary could recover an overpayment of funds. If "Missionary A" overpaid by say, $400, that money could be reassigned to "missionary B" who is still in the field. Then Missionary B's family could give $400 to Missionary A.
russellhltn
Community Administrator
#19
funaddict wrote:There are ways a missionary could recover an overpayment of funds. If "Missionary A" overpaid by say, $400, that money could be reassigned to "missionary B" who is still in the field. Then Missionary B's family could give $400 to Missionary A.
I'd consider that ill-advised. For starters, there's no paper trail for "Family B" to take a tax write-off if they ever got audited.

Re-classifying is much cleaner.
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russellhltn
Community Administrator
#20
lisavawdrey wrote:BTW, have any of you seen this upfront donation for a person's entire mission before?
The only time I've seen that is when the missionary was being supported by the stake. They'd cut the ward a check for the year.

Of course in that situation, if anything happened, the stake wouldn't have a problem getting it's money back.
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lajackson
Community Moderators
#21
lisavawdrey wrote:BTW, have any of you seen this upfront donation for a person's entire mission before?
We had a young man who was the only member of the Church in his family write a check for the complete cost of his mission the Sunday before he departed.
warnick
New Member
#22
We have a missionary who had an extended family member that sent a check to help the missionary buy suits and supplies for the mission, but it ended up going to the ward and was deposited into the missionary's ward mission sub-account by mistake. In that case, is it acceptable to write a check to get the funds to the missionary?
aebrown
Community Administrator
#23
warnick wrote:We have a missionary who had an extended family member that sent a check to help the missionary buy suits and supplies for the mission, but it ended up going to the ward and was deposited into the missionary's ward mission sub-account by mistake. In that case, is it acceptable to write a check to get the funds to the missionary?
I would recommend that you contact the Global Service Center for advice. Since refunding donations is against policy, you'd want to be very sure you were following an approved procedure in this exceptional circumstance.

I'm curious how a check could accidentally be deposited by the ward. Was the check made out to the ward?

In any case, it's worth reinforcing that Ward Missionary funds may not be used for purchasing clothing and supplies for a missionary.
Questions that can benefit the larger community should be asked in a public forum, not a private message.
russellhltn
Community Administrator
#24
warnick wrote:We have a missionary who had an extended family member that sent a check to help the missionary buy suits and supplies for the mission, but it ended up going to the ward and was deposited into the missionary's ward mission sub-account by mistake. In that case, is it acceptable to write a check to get the funds to the missionary?
Who was going to support the missionary on his mission? With the money in the sub-account, the family is off the hook for that amount. They won't get the tax write-off for that amount, but in the long run, everything else would work out.
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gregwanderson
Senior Member
#25
warnick wrote:We have a missionary who had an extended family member that sent a check to help the missionary buy suits and supplies for the mission, but it ended up going to the ward and was deposited into the missionary's ward mission sub-account by mistake. In that case, is it acceptable to write a check to get the funds to the missionary?
This is an unfortunate case where the parties involved simply don't know how the ward mission fund works. The donor did not realize that you can't really designate a donation like that to benefit one, specific missionary. The bishopric member and clerk who accepted the donation didn't realize what it was intended to do and/or that the intention was against policy.

Something similar happened in another ward that I'm familiar with. A young man was about to leave on a mission. His family had some recent financial strain. The Ward Mission Fund had "surplus" money. The (newly called) Bishop approved of writing a check from the Ward Mission Fund to buy clothing for the missionary. It seemed like a reasonable thing (to the newly called Bishop) but, after it all happened, he was informed (by a note from the higher-ups) that it was not appropriate. Someone asked me "Okay then, what was the correct way we should have done this?" I didn't know. What category would you use if this were handled as Fast Offering assistance? In the end, there was no further follow-up and whatever happened was allowed to stand.

In the case above, mentioned by warnick, I suppose the correct thing would be for the extended family member to simply pay for the supplies without running it through the ward account, because it really cannot be counted as a charitable donation. The ward cannot get mixed up in a deal like that.
My real name is Greg Anderson.
gregwanderson
Senior Member
#26
I suppose another solution to the situation referenced by warnick is this: Create a pass-through subcategory in the "Other" account called "Missionary clothing fund". Then go back to the batch and edit the donation by the extended family member and put it into the "Missionary clothing fund" instead of the ward mission fund sub-category for the missionary. Then write a check to whomever (Mr. Mac or the missionary himself, for example) for the purchase of the suits and supplies. The "Missionary clothing fund" will then have a zero balance and you can stop using it. Then there is no "refund" to the extended family member but the money will go to its intended use.

The only downside to all of this is that the donor's tax statement from the church will not show this as a charitable donation. But, to me, that's okay because such a donation should never have been expected to be counted as a deductible, charitable donation
My real name is Greg Anderson.