Unordained 11 year old boy

We have a family who went overseas to visit their families. Whilst overseas, the father wanted to confer the Aaronic Priesthood to his 11 year old boy, and ordained him to the office of the Deacon. There was no documentation when or who performed the ordinance. Normally the presiding officer in the overseas unit would have approved the ordinance in the ward/branch. The only proof that my bishop has is verbally from the father. My conversation with my bishop was not helpful. The Handbook 38.2.6.1 and 38.2.9.1 explains the requirement for any ordinances to be recorded. It gets interesting. The young boy goes to the temple to do proxy baptisms and confirmation. My bishop explains the situation and the member of the temple presidency approves that the boy can attend the bapistry. As a clerk, despite my reservations and the lack of documentation or witnesses, there wasn't anything that I can do. Any genuine responses?

You didn't mention where the membership record was at the time of the ordination. That has bearing on who has authority to preside over the ordination.

Providing the ordination was properly approved and presided over then General Handbook, 38.2.6.1, applies and must be followed. It states; "The ordinance can be validated with the original certificate that was issued when the ordinance was performed." It goes on to state; "If the certificate cannot be found, the baptism and confirmation or the priesthood ordination can be validated with the testimony of two people who witnessed it." The two witnesses must meet the requirements established in that same section.The verbal testimony of the father does not meet the requirements to validate the ordination.

General Handbook, 38.2.6.1, then states in paragraph four: "If the certificate or witnesses cannot be found, ... the priesthood ordination must be performed again or ratified by the First Presidency."

Who interviewed the boy to be ordained and in what unit's sacrament meeting was he sustained prior to being ordained? Suggest your bishop speak with the stake president before this gets out of hand, although it may have already.

The membership records resides in our ward. Both the father and the son. I cannot verify if my bishop interviewed the young man or not. I need to ask him, as there's no Aaronic Priesthood Ordination Record Form in my possession. I have all records forms that the young were interviewed. All the ordinations were witnessed by me, except for this one. Plus, the young man has not been sustained as yet in our sacrament meeting.

I did think about that the bishop should speak to our stake president. I'll have a chat with my bishop personally. If he doesn't, I may have to contact the stake president myself.

jdlessley wrote: Tue Mar 25, 2025 11:03 am You didn't mention where the membership record was at the time of the ordination. That has bearing on who has authority to preside over the ordination.

You'd think so, but I'm having a hard time finding language in the Handbook to back that up. Section 33.6 is close, but only requires it for Melchizedek Priesthood offices. Ironically, it doesn't seem to be required for the Aaronic Priesthood.

This includes the part of consulting with the prior ward for members who haven't lived in the ward for a year.

ramsdenb wrote: Tue Mar 25, 2025 6:51 pm I did think about that the bishop should speak to our stake president. I'll have a chat with my bishop personally. If he doesn't, I may have to contact the stake president myself.

Keep in mind your trainer (as a clerk) is the Stake Clerk (Section 33.3.2.2). I'd talk to him first. If the Stake Clerk agrees with you, he can approach the Stake President.

russellhltn wrote: Tue Mar 25, 2025 6:52 pm

jdlessley wrote: Tue Mar 25, 2025 11:03 am You didn't mention where the membership record was at the time of the ordination. That has bearing on who has authority to preside over the ordination.

You'd think so, but I'm having a hard time finding language in the Handbook to back that up. Section 33.6 is close, but only requires it for Melchizedek Priesthood offices. Ironically, it doesn't seem to be required for the Aaronic Priesthood.

This includes the part of consulting with the prior ward for members who haven't lived in the ward for a year.

I was thinking of the scenario in which the record for the 11 year-old was in the OP's ward and the family went to visit relatives, as in a vacation, and while on vacation had the relatives' bishop/branch president preside. Only the bishop of the ward in which the member's records resides "holds the priesthood keys for conferring the Aaronic Priesthood and ordaining to the offices of deacon, teacher, and priest." (General Handbook, 18.10.2)

jdlessley wrote: Tue Mar 25, 2025 9:27 pm Only the bishop of the ward in which the member's records resides "holds the priesthood keys for conferring the Aaronic Priesthood and ordaining to the offices of deacon, teacher, and priest." (General Handbook, 18.10.2)

Yes, the bishop holds the keys, but I'm not finding anything that says the records have to be in his ward. He does have to get "verbal permission from the parents or guardians".

When you compare the requirements between Aaronic and Melchizedek ordinations, the differences in the record situation is one of the notable differences.

While the Handbook does say he needs to be sustained in a sacrament meeting, it doesn't say which ward. (But it strikes me as odd to do it in a ward he's not known. Seems like a rascal could run away with his parents and then come back ordained. na-na na-na boo-boo to the bishop who might have blocked it or the ward who might have objected at the sustaining. That's not the "house of order" I'm used to.)

I really wanted to say the other unit didn't follow policy, but I can't find the Handbook verbiage to back that position. If the other unit doesn't provide a certificate, then this quickly turns into a mess.

Getting back to OP's situation, I suppose one of the options here is to contact the other ward and either get a certificate or fulfill the two witnesses requirement.

russellhltn wrote: Tue Mar 25, 2025 10:10 pm When you compare the requirements between Aaronic and Melchizedek ordinations, the differences in the record situation is one of the notable differences.

Another notable difference is that conferral of the Melchizedek Priesthood and ordination to an office is an ordinance of salvation and exaltation while conferral of the Aaronic Priesthood and ordination to an office is not. (General Handbook, 18.1 & 18.2)

Thank you brethren who have responded to this situation, and of the many positive suggestions. Just to let you know, that I have been a membership clerk, finance clerk in a ward/branch, stake clerk, a ward clerk for 13 years straight, released, and only to be called back as a ward clerk. My bishop...6 months. I did counsel with my bishop what he needs to do, when I found out what was happening late last year.
Whenever there is questions or uncertainly, the Handbook provides that certainty. My last course of action is to suggest to my bishop that he counsels with the stake president on this matter.

ramsdenb wrote: Tue Mar 25, 2025 11:48 pmWhenever there is questions or uncertainly, the Handbook provides that certainty. My last course of action is to suggest to my bishop that he counsels with the stake president on this matter.

I've found that simply redoing the ordinance is often the most straightforward and satisfactory for all parties, when uncertainty like this occurs that is difficult to resolve. It might take a bit of counseling and discussion -- but if the member and family can understand that this in no way is an indication of anything having been done wrong, but is rather to do what we can to try and make things right administratively, then repeating the ordinance can be a spiritual event not many members ever experience.

But as you say, the stake president and bishop can counsel together and receive appropriate revelation for this specific circumstance.

russellhltn wrote: Tue Mar 25, 2025 10:10 pm

jdlessley wrote: Tue Mar 25, 2025 9:27 pm Only the bishop of the ward in which the member's records resides "holds the priesthood keys for conferring the Aaronic Priesthood and ordaining to the offices of deacon, teacher, and priest." (General Handbook, 18.10.2)

Yes, the bishop holds the keys, but I'm not finding anything that says the records have to be in his ward. He does have to get "verbal permission from the parents or guardians".

The wording in the handbook is the bishop not a bishop. To me that refers to the bishop with the keys for that individual not just any bishop.

jonesrk wrote: Wed Mar 26, 2025 1:16 pm The wording in the handbook is the bishop not a bishop. To me that refers to the bishop with the keys for that individual not just any bishop.

Maybe, but it's not a terribly strong argument. "The" bishop could also refer to the bishop of the ward the sustaining or ordination will take place in.

From the Handbook 33.6:

The bishop or stake president ensures that a membership record is in the appropriate ward before a member is interviewed to receive:

• A Church calling.
• A temple recommend.
• The Melchizedek Priesthood or to be ordained to an office in that priesthood.

Noticeably absent is the same requirement for the Aaronic Priesthood. Which strikes me as a little strange, as you'd want to make sure he had been baptized.

Perhaps it isn't explicitly listed because it is implicit in the Bishop's responsibilities as the President of the Aaronic Priesthood and keyholder for the Aaronic Priesthood in his ward. I agree there's no definitive language about the discussion topic, and that's one reason I appreciate the discussions that take place here in the Forum. But I share the view that not any Bishop is able to authorize Aaronic Priesthood ordinances, only the Bishop of the ward where the Aaronic Priesthood holder resides under the keys of the President of the Aaronic Priesthood (aka records are there).

Yes. The easiest resolution is for the ordinance to be performed again in our ward. I already mentioned this.