More than 2 counselors

Due to special circumstances, our Ward is going to be calling an additional counselor for Relief Society. I can't see how to add a third counselor (there may be a fourth as well) and still have them get all of the LCR access. If I try to add another "second" counselor, it releases the current one. Any thoughts? I can call Global Services but just haven't had time.

They system doesn't support more than 2. You can try calling the Global Service Department but I'm pretty sure there is not any way around it. The handbook doesn't mention any possibility of more than 2 counselors and usually the directions the developers are given conforms to what is allowed in the handbook.

Not supported.

General Handbook 9.3.2.1:

The bishop calls a woman to serve as the ward Relief Society president. If the unit is large enough, she recommends to him one or two women to serve as her counselors. The bishopric considers her recommendations and extends the callings.

There is no room for interpretation for a third counselor. LCR follows the Handbook.

You can have a assistant secretary and/or specialists, as well as two Relief Societies
9.1.3:

Some wards have a very large number of active adult women. For these wards, the bishop and stake president may authorize having more than one ward Relief Society. Each Relief Society has its own presidency.

russellhltn wrote: Mon Dec 04, 2023 10:36 am
You can have a assistant secretary and/or specialists, as well as two Relief Societies
9.1.3:

Some wards have a very large number of active adult women. For these wards, the bishop and stake president may authorize having more than one ward Relief Society. Each Relief Society has its own presidency.

Yes, the Stake President didn't want two Relief Societies and so wants to do 1 president and multiple counselors and two secretaries (which we can do with an asst secretary).

So, I wonder if we can create a second RS and just have the counselors report to that??? I'll have to figure out how that may work.

Thanks

The Handbook does not extend that option, even for the stake president.

If you go with two RS, I think you'll find the councilors of the second RS will have limited to no access to the affairs of the main body.

This isn't the first time this issue has come up in the forum. I don't think anyone found a viable workaround.

Thanks. I'll see what they want to do.

There are many more creative things that can be done, defaulting to another counselor just isn't the one that is going to work. Not even if you call them as something else and then just tell them to 'think' of themselves that way, they'll never have access to everything the other counselors and the president does, it'll be workaround after workaround, it is a recipe for disaster all around. Find a different way to meet the needs of the women of the ward. Or follow the handbook procedure to use 2 RS's

I spoke to Global Services and thought I would respond here so that folks knew what they recommended.

It is possible to create a second RS and add the counselors to that. However, you have to assign each Sister to one of the organizations and then the counselors for each can only see the info for the sisters in their organization. That didn't work for us.

The second option, and one we will take, is to give each of the "extra" counselors the standard calling of Asst Relief Society Secretary since you can have as many of those that you want and that gives them the same member information as any member of the presidency. Then we will ALSO give them a Custom Calling of Relief Society 3rd Counselor and 4th Counselor so that they show up on calling lists and can be found in tools and such. Not super elegant, but it will work.

Thank you for sharing what you found out. We were trying to find out what to do for the same situation. Sounds like there are quite a few wards that need a solution to additional counselors. I appreciate your comments and instruction.

Due to special circumstances, our Ward is going to be calling an additional counselor for Relief Society.

Adaptability and flexibility are offered by the Handbook, so local circumstances may definitely warrant that. From a broader perspective, I have found that often these types of stresses on leaders and organizations, can be lessened when a re-evaluation occurs of what exactly are the "things that matter most", and then deciding what good things may end up not being done, so you can do what's truly needed. Admittedly, if you're trying to have the Relief Society Presidency completely follow everything listed in GHB 9.3.2.2, many RS Presidencies will be overwhelmed even with capable and experienced Presidency members. And perhaps even when delegating and having functioning ministering secretaries, service committee coordinator and members, activity committee coordinator and members, and assistant secretaries, the RS Presidency may still be overloaded.

We're often at the other end of the spectrum, happy if for a time we actually have two counselors called in the RS Presidency (but still with many many needs). So we constantly evaluate what the RS Presidency is asked to do, and encourage them to be satisfied with what they are able to provide, even if much is left without being able to get done.

Again, not to say the local Bishop and Stake President are wrong if that's their decision, and they very well may have already accounted for these considerations, in their decision-making for your unique situation.

Yes, our situation is not people trying to do too much. We have over 80 single sisters (a 55+ community is part of our ward) on one end and a large number of other issues as well. The Bishop and Stake President know what they are dealing with and what the members/sisters in our Ward need.

This doesn't require an additional counselor... the handbook has this figured out already (IMHO). 1. A new RS, with 80 single sisters - there are plenty to serve, and those sisters know their needs better than any Bishop or Stake President could ever imagine grasping. I promise you that. IF for some reason a Bishop/Stake President isn't interested in this then this group of sisters is served very well by a 2. single RS Presidency and a compassionate service Leaders/assistants/committee - WHICH THEY WILL HAVE TO HAVE ANYWAY... what's a single RS counselor going to by herself for 80 single sisters.

Why oh why do we want to find 'workarounds' when there are already plain and simple things in the handbook, I'll never understand, in a million years, why many men in these positions will not adjust their thinking once faced with things like the handbook, how the computer system works (which is designed to enforce best practices and handbook standards) or plain simplicity. If you think you're a special case, you're probably not (that's my experience). This is happening all-the-time in YSA wards, why wouldn't we look to where we already have a working model, and suggested action?

It is also my experience that you don't want to go 'priesthood handling' women in this age group, they're finished with all the hoopla of who decides what by now. These are my considered opinions, they are my interpretation of what the Prophets and Apostles intended to be the way we govern ourselves based on the handbook. I realize that others look at it as a starting point to do whatever they want, I don't... I look at it as a standard to be followed until what is suggested in the handbook does not match what you need. In this case there are at least 2 handbook alternatives that would work, IMNO even better than a 3rd Counselor.

I realize that for many years a third counselor was common for RS, YW and P - My bet is there is some institutional familiarity/history with doing it that way, especially back when the computer system could create any calling you wanted and access to information was based on your local login to MLS and not on your standard position in LCR so it really didn't matter. But adding a 3rd counselor or having more than 12 high councilman in large stakes all things of the past we should drop and find creativity where the handbook is silent.

Well, I can’t change what the Stake Pres wants. We took care of it all this weekend. The RS now has 1 President, 4 counselors, and 2 secretaries with callings both standard and custom as laid out. If it doesn’t work, I am sure it will get re-evaluated.

Thanks for everyone’s ideas and comments.

This whole thing reminds me of what happened to the clerk position.

It seems a number of stakes and wards thought that leaders (like the high councilors) should have more access to LCR. So they made them all stake clerks/assistant stake clerks. Some stakes had a ridiculous number of "clerks".

CHQ found out, and now we're limited to one individual for each position.

I would not be the least bit surprised if something happens to the RS secretary position to impose a similar rule.