Kicking offending users via MACs?

We have a few youth that are not properly using Liahona network and disrupting classes. Is there a way to temporarily block their device via MAC address?
What is the enforcement when they refuse to follow the Liahona Splash?

You could turn off Liahona and use Lehi instead. I'm not sure if you can block certain Mac addresses but many modern devices can randomize them, so one could get around it. And this doesn't exclude the possibility that they have a mobile network on their phone and can just use that.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't Church headquarters enforce people abusing Liahona?

What is the enforcement when they refuse to follow the Liahona Splash?

I shudder to think what our youth teachers would have had to put up with, if cellphones and social media were a thing when I was young! We gave them enough trouble as it was.

Point being, there will always be some youth that even if you completely removed tech, may still find new ways to be disruptive (we often were instructed to move to different parts of the classroom ). Hopefully the teachers know they have parents and youth leaders for support, and hopefully the parents and youth leaders are aware of this issue (since the youth involved possibly also exhibit this behavior in other settings). For ongoing issues like you describe, I'd offload any "enforcement" from the teacher and onto parents/leaders.

Thanks for the feedback.
Unfortunately blocking Liahona also means blocking of streaming service and rich media content for lessons.
Yep, I believe we are at the cusp of more disruptions, but I believe we can tackle it with a temporary MAC deactivation.
I have opened a ticket to see if we can get a new Group Policy on CNM to allow temporary blocking based on MAC. Just like we have a Group Policy for NoSplash and IOT. If I can keep them off of the church WiFi of streamed devices of TVs and printers, the Meraki firewall will handle the rest.

As Cmanrogers points out, that just ups the game and doesn't solve the problem.

What exactly his happening? The answer might involve putting the TV on a wired connection, or putting the teacher and TV on a "private" connection. But I'm just guessing as to the problem.

Then of course, there's always the "mass punishment" route. If the rich media keeps getting disrupted, then there's no rich media for the week. You'll have to listen to the teacher - and there will be a test.

I'm assuming the parents have been contacted and are doing nothing. When I had youth, it was before cell phones for the masses were a thing, so my children or youth got to go to EQ or HP meeting with me if they "needed a babysitter" in class to act appropriately. They quickly learned that it was more fun to reasonably behave and go to their normal class. My daughter has had to put some of her children's phones in lockup when they don't behave properly with them (they can always check out paper scriptures from the library or bring ones from home to participate).

YMMV, but I see this as a problem for the parents to address first, if they will. I have been known to escort disruptive youth to their parents in Sunday School if they are destroying the spirit for the rest of their class. They are smart and will get the message quickly if we are kind but firm that some behavior will not be tolerated.

Ok, you sold me:
I will share just a bit more about the issue. I agree with the parent and babysitting route first, unfortunately this has not been successful, because even sitting in EQ or the bathroom, their child continues to enjoy their electronic device as it pacifies the child.

Issues:
The instructor wirelessly streaming content to a TV, while any user on Liahona, anywhere in the building tries to take over the streaming screen. it does not matter if the TV is wired or wireless. The network wide open.
Airprint or IP print garbage to any of the printers in the building.
Loudly streaming a football game or memes during a class.
I believe the individual is just wanting the attention, positive or negative.

So from Tech side, this is a balance of convenience versus security. Today there is zero security or segmentation options for the network. My thought is to chop off the the offending issue, while allowing the remainder to continue enjoying rich content, sharing, and convenience.

Agree too, mass punishments becomes the bragging point for the individual creating the disruption as well as further embarrassment for the parent. Instead, temporarily cutting the internet connection to just that 1 individual becomes a natural consequence of violating Liahona splash. Why have a splash if there is no enforcement?

Positive ideas based on the 3 points above are very welcome! Please think within the aspect of maintaining richness for all, while kicking out the offender.

While I'm not keen on the wide-open network for printing or streaming, I think you're trying to use technology as a crutch for a behavioral problems. Fixing the technology isn't likely to fix the underlying problem and it will manifest itself in another way.

General Handbook 38.1.1

If there is inappropriate behavior, the bishop or stake president gives private counsel in a spirit of love. He encourages those whose behavior is improper for the occasion to focus on helping maintain a sacred space for everyone present with a special emphasis on worshipping Heavenly Father and the Savior.

Church meetinghouses remain private property subject to Church policies. Persons unwilling to follow these guidelines will be asked in a respectful way not to attend Church meetings and events.

I'd say this is something for the bishop to handle, perhaps with help from Family Services.

But if you insist on going the technology route, you'll need to call support. There isn't much in the way of tools at the ward/stake level. (Although support may ask why you have networked printers. That's not a requirement.)

kent.smith wrote: Mon Nov 06, 2023 3:58 pm I agree with the parent and babysitting route first, unfortunately this has not been successful, because even sitting in EQ or the bathroom, their child continues to enjoy their electronic device as it pacifies the child.
. . .
I believe the individual is just wanting the attention, positive or negative.

A bishop can discuss the situation with the Global Services Department and, with adequate justification (and this may be enough), the GSD will block the user account. It is a nuclear option. But there is nothing to keep a member from setting up another user account to continue the interference.

Sadly, it sounds as if this child is no longer being parented.

lajackson wrote: Mon Nov 06, 2023 4:53 pm GSD will block the user account.

User Account? There's no login involved for WiFi access.

lajackson wrote: Mon Nov 06, 2023 4:53 pm Sadly, it sounds as if this child is no longer being parented.

Agree. That's one of the reasons I think this is best tackled at the "user" level rather than though technology. I realize that's not a comfortable conversation. But it needs to be done.

1)The instructor wirelessly streaming content to a TV, while any user on Liahona, anywhere in the building tries to take over the streaming screen. it does not matter if the TV is wired or wireless. The network wide open.
2) Airprint or IP print garbage to any of the printers in the building.
3) Loudly streaming a football game or memes during a class.
4) I believe the individual is just wanting the attention, positive or negative.

1) A simple tech solution would be to use a TV not connected to the network, and directly connect the TV to the instructor's device. Or use a personal laptop (not on Liahona network).
2) As mentioned, disconnect the printers from the network
3) If the individual is as resourceful and determined as you suggest, they can easily find a way to use their cell network, or a friend's hotspot, and stream whatever content they want. And even if network connections were completely removed, this determined individual can simply access media local to his device, and play that.
4) Perhaps the Bishop should sit in the class next to this individual every week. If the ability is removed to capture a TV, or access a printer, then all that's left is for the individual to misbehave in person. And the Bishop's responsibility is outlined clearly in GHB 38.1.1, as referenced earlier.

If the individual is responsive to boundaries, then a tech solution may be sufficient, and perhaps Global Services could provide some help. But if the situation is an individual that truly is dedicated to mischief, then you'll always be chasing a moving target, and it's a bigger issue than just the Liahona network.

Another option is for the Bishop to counsel with the parents and help train them.

I have requested global services for a new CNM policy that blocks specific MACs that do not follow the Liahona Splash.

I personally believe we are on the cusp of tech enhancements to enrich the lives of all individuals, we just need a method of removing one or two bad apples.

Maybe to share how we are using our technology. There is no added costs, just STS config. If you would like to know more, I can create a separate thread on Tech.:
1. Quotes, talks, pictures, reverent prelude music to enhance a lesson wirelessly though wireless streaming to a monitor. It has been native on our phones, tablets and computers for over 10 years. We use Samsung TV, LG TV, $17 Roku to old Projectors and TV. HDMI/VGA connections are nearly obsolete.
2. Our Xerox printers are USB and IP capable printers. Bishops can print dance cards, certificates or whatever they wirelessly need, from their phone or laptop. Sensitive items they use clerk computer. The printers also have an additional feature for locking connections down to those who have passwords.
3. Airprint - work in progress - Bishops and clerks are using their Apple tablets to print talks, quotes, anything that they need.
4. Bluetooth - work in progress, limited access. Play reverent music for setups and even fun music for basketball during the week
5. Training is done via self help QR code laminated directly on the device. The member can scan, and follow very simple instructions.
6. Sacrament programs are all online via QR code from the lobby. You can also save the link to refer to a new program each week. No need for all that wasted paper.

Thanks for the feedback. We can close the discussion.

Whatever comes of your conversations with GSC, hopefully you come back and share their input. I am certain many others currently following this thread, or finding it down the road, will be interested to know whether GSC indicated this was something they might do.

kent.smith wrote: Tue Nov 07, 2023 12:30 pm Play reverent music for setups and even fun music for basketball during the week

Careful. You can quickly get into copyright violations, especially with the music during activities. It doesn't matter if you own a copy of the music, you can't play it as part of a "public" function without a copyright agreement.

Here is the response from GSC.

Your feature request was sent to the CNM Product Management team for review, who then forwarded the info to the CNM Development team. This is their response: 'After a discussion with the team we decided not to [move forward with] that request. It could be used for the intended use case but could also be used as a censorship tool inappropriately.'

Enjoy.

Interesting insight into their thinking.

kent.smith wrote: Mon Nov 06, 2023 3:58 pm The instructor wirelessly streaming content to a TV

Most phones rotate MAC addresses so they can’t be tracked, so blocking the MAC from the wifi likely won’t work.

A simple fix could be to turn off the TVs wifi and just use a cable between the phone and the HDMI port on the tv.

If you still want to maintain the wireless capabilities of the TV, then you could try to PIN protect the TVs “stream” feature, depending if the TV has this feature. By PIN protecting you can control who can stream to the TV by giving the pin only to the teacher. If the TV doesn’t have that feature, could install a device that does. For example, I know Apple TV (the device, not the service) you have to have the pin to connect and stream to it. I believe ChromeCast also has this ability. Below are instructions I found after a quick search.

I hope this helps!
-Joe

ChromeCast
Turn off “Guest Mode” on Chromecast
Plug your Chromecast into the TV and connect it to a power source. Open your Google Home app on your smartphone or tablet. Find your Chromecast among the connected devices and tap on its tile. Click on the Settings icon at the top right corner of the screen. Disable “Guest Mode” and save the changes.

Android TV
Go to Settings on your Android TV. Navigate to Network & Internet and then Wi-Fi. Tap on Device Management or Connected Devices. Locate the devices that you want to block from casting and select them. Choose the option to block or disconnect the selected devices.

Apple TV
On your Apple TV, go to Settings. Select AirPlay and HomeKit.
Choose “Allow Access.” Turn off “Everyone” and switch to “Only People Sharing This Home” or “Anyone on the Same Network.”
or
“Conference Room” mode: Set Apple TV so that Conference Room Display mode is locked until a 4-digit passcode is entered. Open Settings on Apple TV. Go to General > Restrictions, and enter the passcode if required. Make sure Conference Room Display is set to Restrict in the list of restricted items.

Roku
Navigate to Settings on your Roku device.
Select Screen Mirroring. Choose “Prompt” or “Always Allow” depending on your preference. Identify the devices that you want to block and change their access setting to “Never Allow.”

Fire TV
Unfortunately, there is no built-in option to block specific devices from casting on a Fire TV. However, you can try the following steps: Go to Settings on your Fire TV. Select Display & Sound and then HDMI CEC Device Control. Turn off the HDMI CEC Device Control feature.

Yep appreciate the input and this is what we now do. I really do not want to go backwards to hardwired support. All of our hardwired TVs sit, while the wireless sharing ones are checked out each week.