Bishop says to include Primary Teachers in SS Attendance Roll

I know of a Bishop who has asked his SS President to include all Primary teachers (who do not attend Gospel Doctrine class, but of course are teaching in Primary during Gospel Doctrine), on the Gospel Doctrine attendance attendance roll.

Not sure if this is necessary or appropriate. Please advise.

The bishop is correct. On the quarterly report, for brethren attending Priesthood or Sunday School classes, the following instruction is provided: "Record Melchizedek Priesthood holders and visitors attending priesthood, Sunday School, or Primary meetings using the Class and Quorum Attendance tool in LCR or Member Tools." There is similar wording for the sisters.

As Elder's Quorum president, I record brethren who are attending other assigned classes as if they were in priesthood meeting. Some wards have the ward clerk record that information, but in our ward it won't get captured if I don't record it myself. I personally don't worry about the SS roll as that is the SS president's responsibility - I just update the weeks for Priesthood meeting in the class attendance tool.

To clarify my post: The bishop is correct that the adults serving in other callings (that keep them out of Sunday School) should be recorded as attending Sunday School. However, how that information is recorded could take several different paths. My method is my earlier post, but there are other methods that could be just as good.

I don't count members hanging out in the foyer nor do I count clerks who are in the clerk's office instead of attending quorum meeting

dougdetelj wrote: Mon May 30, 2022 9:15 pm Not sure if this is necessary or appropriate.

The Handbook (33.5.1.1) seems to indicate that it should be done. It used to refer to "priesthood and Relief Society", but now it says that attendance is recorded each week by "quorum and organization" secretaries and advisers. It would seem to me that Sunday School would be one of those "organizations".

This also makes sense since priesthood and Relief Society attendance is recorded at the same location as Sunday School attendance. It would look kind of funny if a member was active every 2nd and 4th Sunday but not every 1st and 3rd Sunday.

I think this may be a part of the recent changes that are happening with the recording of attendance at Church meetings. So I think the bishop is on the right track.

To clarify, who would take the attendance roll for Sunday School on the 1st and 3rd Sundays? Would it be the Sunday School Presidency or the EQ and RS Secretaries?

If you read the GHB reference (33.5.1.1) from lajackson, you should find your answer there. For your question, the SS Secretary is in charge of recording second-hour SS attendance on 1st and 3rd Sundays.

Another possible way of reading this section from the handbook, is that the second-hour attendance should include all members who are participating in a second-hour class that day. And I'd ask the Bishop to give his direction as to how to interpret that, and how much effort to put into trying to determine attendance. For example, we have a Stake Presidency member in our unit who is quite often absent, and we always assume he is attending second-hour class in another part of the Stake -- but we don't verify if he was actually in a class or was meeting with somebody for an interview during 2nd hour. Or does an adult in the foyer count as long as they have a crying child with them? And your Bishop can decide if he wants to simply assume that Primary Teachers can always be marked as attending SS/RS/EQ, or if he prefers that somebody verifies if they're in church each individual Sunday.

BrianEdwards wrote: Tue May 31, 2022 11:13 am For example, we have a Stake Presidency member in our unit who is quite often absent, and we always assume he is attending second-hour class in another part of the Stake --

We used to include these members, stake presidency, high councilors, others in stake callings, etc. But the Handbook (33.5.1.1) now says that "members who are attending another ward are counted in the ward they attend."

I guess they would show up in the visitor total. And if a stake leader shows up in our ward who is not actually a member of our ward, we would include them in our visitor total here.

Well... I actually read that section before I typed my comment, and completely missed that (obvious) detail! So we'll start not accounting for anyone who is on assignment elsewhere, and they'll be visitors there.

A good thing about this Forum is that it provides a chance for me to see where I've overlooked things that I think I understand better than I really do.

I am glad the subject came up. It gave me a chance to get up to speed on the latest Handbook instructions. I am glad they are there and not just hidden in the attendance page little information circle.

As the written instructions are updated, the combined Attendance page we have been seeing for a few months is starting to make more sense to me.

I am finding it a little difficult to keep up with Handbook changes, now that it is in an online format. And count me in the group as one who is also able to review a paragraph and miss all of the important information I just read.

Or maybe is has more to do with my seasoned experience in church service, i.e., old age. [grin]

Thank you all so much for your input!

A few things come to mind....

First, to accurately include the primary teachers, etc. would require that we go to all the Primary classes and take "Primary teacher roll" before including them on the roll. That seems a bit over the top as far as interrupting classes for that count. But perhaps that's the only way. Or perhaps we can ask the Primary Presidency to keep roll for their teachers, and pick it up at the end of meeting.

The only purpose of the roll (as far as I understand it) is to keep an eye on who is not attending church on Sunday, and also to be aware of those who are beginning to fall into less activity.

dougdetelj wrote: Tue May 31, 2022 7:13 pm First, to accurately include the primary teachers, etc. would require that we go to all the Primary classes and take "Primary teacher roll" before including them on the roll. That seems a bit over the top as far as interrupting classes for that count. But perhaps that's the only way. Or perhaps we can ask the Primary Presidency to keep roll for their teachers, and pick it up at the end of meeting.

Which may be more effort than it's worth. Some wards count them unless there's a reason to believe they're not attending.

dougdetelj wrote: Tue May 31, 2022 7:13 pm The only purpose of the roll (as far as I understand it) is to keep an eye on who is not attending church on Sunday, and also to be aware of those who are beginning to fall into less activity.

I agree. And in the case of the teachers, there's going to be feedback (not doing lessons) coming from the Primary. I don't know as there's a point in trying to be super accurate all the time. From a ward stats perspective, I doubt if including the various teachers change the numbers that much. Getting more ward members to stick around would be a lot more effective.

dougdetelj wrote: Tue May 31, 2022 7:13 pmThe only purpose of the roll (as far as I understand it) is to keep an eye on who is not attending church on Sunday, and also to be aware of those who are beginning to fall into less activity.

This data also helps the Church plan for building utilization.

dougdetelj wrote: Tue May 31, 2022 7:13 pmThe only purpose of the roll (as far as I understand it) is to keep an eye on who is not attending church on Sunday, and also to be aware of those who are beginning to fall into less activity.

I would agree on this purpose also. I was mainly looking at it from a budget perspective and when I reviewed the quarterly budget allowance, the EQ and RS attendance is not a separate category so the Sacrament attendance already includes most of the Sunday School lesson attended by EQ and RS.

My main question previously was whether SS Secretary or the RS and EQ secretaries take attendance in Sunday School for their respective organizations. I am leaning towards the SS Secretary to avoid double duty for the RS and EQ.

cchang wrote: Wed Jun 01, 2022 12:18 pm My main question previously was whether SS Secretary or the RS and EQ secretaries take attendance in Sunday School for their respective organizations. I am leaning towards the SS Secretary to avoid double duty for the RS and EQ.

Yes. That seems to be what the Handbook says, as was mentioned right after you asked the question earlier.

cchang wrote: Tue May 31, 2022 10:49 am To clarify, who would take the attendance roll for Sunday School on the 1st and 3rd Sundays? Would it be the Sunday School Presidency or the EQ and RS Secretaries?

The SS Pres or SS Sec does 1st and 3rd Sundays. They do not have access online to record other Sundays. The RS/EQ sec records attendance for 2nd/4th/5th Sundays. These secretaries do not have access to record 1st and 3rd Sundays.

mills wrote: Tue Jun 07, 2022 10:01 pm The SS Pres or SS Sec does 1st and 3rd Sundays. They do not have access online to record other Sundays.

I don't believe that's correct. Any of them can record for any Sunday. However, they probably don't have access to the information on "off" Sundays. But they do need to be aware and "play nicely" with everyone else.

Keep in mind that the Sunday schedule isn't set in stone. It can be moved around.

As EQ President, I can see all Sundays for the brethren. I suspect the SS Presidency can see all Sundays as well. I don't record SS attendance normally, but if members of the quorum record it when we pass the roll around, I ask our Secretary to add their attendance on those Sundays while he is recording anyway. For some reason, our SS presidency doesn't transfer their paper roll to the attendance tool on LCR (our SS President is not literate with this technology, but his Secretary is).

Attendance can be recorded live through the Member Tools app, but our Assistant Secretary (who has this assignment) is a new member who doesn't know many people by sight yet so it helps him to use a paper roll at this time.

As far as reporting primary teachers and workers attendance I found the easiest way to do that is record all of them all as attendees and then check with the primary president to see if any were not there on that given Sunday.