Dish Removal and streaming device question

I received an email from the Church titled "ACTION ITEMS: Satellite Dish Removal". At the bottom of the message is this step:

3) Determine if streaming devices will be needed in your stake. Please complete the Request for Streaming Receiver Form if additional streaming devices are required.

Before I can determine if our buildings need one, I need to know what is the "streaming device"? Is it the Teradek VidiU web streaming box, or is it a stream receiver of some kind?

stephendoud wrote:Before I can determine if our buildings need one, I need to know what is the "streaming device"? Is it the Teradek VidiU web streaming box, or is it a stream receiver of some kind?

Receiver. The idea is it will replace your satellite receiver.

Note, this is only for buildings that currently have satellite. It's not for ordering devices for buildings that don't have a dish. I believe they'll be made available separately for stakes that wish to buy some to equip their other buildings.

Point 7 of their FAQ page indicates it's a receiving device.

7. If stakes already have a streaming device, do they need to purchase a new streaming device?

No. If stakes already have a streaming device for each building where broadcasts will be received, there is no need to spend additional funds for additional devices. Those stakes that do not have a streaming device already can request one by completing the Request for Streaming Receiver form before the end of 2020, and a receiver device will be made available.

Kind of interesting, because I didn't know receiving devices, typically an inexpensive Android TV device, had been issued to each stake yet.

Edit: Looks like you beat me to the punch, Russell.

russellhltn wrote:

stephendoud wrote:Before I can determine if our buildings need one, I need to know what is the "streaming device"? Is it the Teradek VidiU web streaming box, or is it a stream receiver of some kind?

Receiver. The idea is it will replace your satellite receiver.

Note, this is only for buildings that currently have satellite. It's not for ordering devices for buildings that don't have a dish. I believe they'll be made available separately for stakes that wish to buy some to equip their other buildings.

Thanks for your reply Russell, but it does not answer my question. I found the answer - I clicked the link in item 3) to "the Request for Streaming Receiver Form" and it states, "Stakes that already have a streaming device (e.g. Roku, Fire TV Stick, Apple TV, Android TV, or laptop) that supports a web browser or apps like the Latter-day Saints Channel or YouTube should use those apps and not order devices here."

So the streaming device is a web stream receiver, not a streaming web-caster.

Mikerowaved wrote:Kind of interesting, because I didn't know receiving devices, typically an inexpensive Android TV device, had been issued to each stake yet.

They haven't. But some stakes went ahead and got some on their own.

I guess this means the different modulators in our a/v rack are now unnecessary...

bphilli7 wrote:I guess this means the different modulators in our a/v rack are now unnecessary...

The operative word being "different". I'm hard pressed to think of a use for multiple modulators. But I'd want at least one, and perhaps a spare for transmitting stake conference to the different rooms.

russellhltn wrote:I'm hard pressed to think of a use for multiple modulators. But I'd want at least one, and perhaps a spare for transmitting stake conference to the different rooms.

In our Stake Centre we have two modulators. One for Spanish and one for Portugese used to distribute these languages, in separate rooms, during General Conference.

Just to clarify, multiple modulators had their use for multiple languages, but once the satellite receivers have been removed, I can't think of a use case for having more than one.

Two questions about this
1. Where has the official information about satellite receivers being withdrawn been published?
2. Or is it on a country by country basis?

Biggles wrote:1. Where has the official information about satellite receivers being withdrawn been published?

In a email to STS and stake presidents.

Biggles wrote:2. Or is it on a country by country basis?

The trigger for this is the reallocation of C-band satellite frequencies for 5G cell service in the US and some of the bargaining that goes along with that. Depending on what band you're on and how your country handles finding frequencies for 5G, this may completely miss countries outside of North America for the foreseeable future.

Biggles wrote:2. Or is it on a country by country basis?

More of a continent kind of thing, at least for now. Here's a quote from the email explaining why it's being done:

Finally, the satellite spectrum used by the Church in North America has been reallocated. Therefore, the Church needs to either reinvest in the satellite network or begin to decommission it.

Thank you both for your answers. They have helped me understand what may be happening, over here, in the near future.
Interestingly I've just received a survey request, from our Area office, as to what technology we've been using during lockdown. May have nothing to do with satellite receivers, but who knows!

russellhltn wrote:

bphilli7 wrote:I guess this means the different modulators in our a/v rack are now unnecessary...

The operative word being "different". I'm hard pressed to think of a use for multiple modulators. But I'd want at least one, and perhaps a spare for transmitting stake conference to the different rooms.

That’s true.

My rack has three SD modulators from the church, with the ability to modulate English Satellite feed, Spanish satellite feed, and local camera input for stake conferences.

Last year we purchased an ATSC HD modulator since all the overflow rooms use TVs less than 15 years old and have that built in.

I suppose I’ll keep the HD modulator and remove the other three, in time.

But this begs the question: the email suggests that a “streaming device” is a roku, fire tv, laptop, etc. I would be interested to know what the new North American building standards will be without the satellite equipment and then adopt that.

One challenge I see with using one streaming device in the library and modulating is that viewers in the remote room will lose the ability to remote control it with the included remote. The upside to this is you’ll have multiple rooms synced up in the broadcast and the required bandwidth will be one streams worth.

Having multiple rooms with multiple stream devices means multiple streams of required bandwidth but they’ll also have the ability to easily use their remote to control the streaming device.

stephendoud wrote:So the streaming device is a web stream receiver, not a streaming web-caster.

Correct. The purpose of the device is to receive the webcast when the satellite system is no longer available.

In our stake, we have always used personal laptops as a backup to satellite broadcasts. If the satellite went down, the laptop was used. In some other stakes, they purchased a streaming device so that they would not need to rely on member laptops.

Since the satellite system is being taken away, we now will need a method to receive webcasts and do not wish to rely on the generosity of members with laptops every time. It was one thing to use donated machines as a backup, but quite another to expect to use them every time.

Several quick points of clarification. Most of these have been resolved but want to make sure....

- The removal of satellite message sent out last week is for US and Canada only right now.
- Many already stream broadcasts in their buildings using laptops, Roku, AppleTV, Android TV, etc. They can continue using these devices.
- The device that will likely be provided for those that need one is an Android device. Something like a Mi Box, Nvidia Shield, or Google Chromebox. Only request the number of units needed based on the stakes broadcast plans moving forward. For example, in my stake we don't open the stake center for broadcasts like general conference. Our stake simply encourages members to just watch from home. I am not saying this is what stakes should do, that is up to the stake president, but we will not be requesting a streaming device because we won't need one.
- The existing distribution system can be used. However, most systems are still analog so your video quality will be improved if you are able to bypass that system and connect directly to a projector/monitor.
NOTE - you will need the distribution system for local events like stake conference if you send the signal to alternative rooms.
- The streaming device referenced here is a receive device and not a transmit. So, the Teradek or other encoder used for sending a stake/ward originated broadcast (webcast) will still be required.

Thanks!

bartj wrote:The device that will likely be provided for those that need one is an Android device. Something like a Mi Box, Nvidia Shield, or Google Chromebox. Only request the number of units needed based on the stakes broadcast plans moving forward.

We requested units for our stake. Has a preferred unit been selected? Is it available yet?

The satellite system at our stake center failed this week. It will not be repaired because of the satellite removal program this year. So I am ready for the first one of our requested replacement streaming devices.

Or if that is not going to happen, I need to know so that I can wire the stake clerks office administrative computer into the audiovisual system instead.

lajackson wrote:

bartj wrote:The device that will likely be provided for those that need one is an Android device. Something like a Mi Box, Nvidia Shield, or Google Chromebox.

Has a preferred unit been selected? Is it available yet?
. . .
Or if that is not going to happen, . . . I can wire the stake clerks office administrative computer into the audiovisual system instead.

I have learned that, for a variety of reasons, there are no longer plans for the Church to provide receiving devices when the satellite systems are removed. I suspect that the variety of circumstances and setups would have made it difficult to select any type of preferred or standardized device. I am sure that cost is always an issue with these decisions. And, of course, quite a few stakes were no longer actively showing satellite broadcasts on the big screen, even before the pandemic struck.

So if you still plan to show Church broadcasts at the stake center after your satellite dish disappears, it is likely you will need to depend on a member laptop, or procure one of the devices mentioned in this or other Forum topics. From what I can see, they all appear to do the job, some better than others, and at different price points for your budget pleasure.

In case it might help anyone looking for a fairly low-cost streaming device, a current Raspberry Pi computer works very well for receiving video streams. A complete setup with a model 4 with 4G RAM in a case with a small (and quiet) fan can be purchased for around US$100 and is sufficiently performant. For comparison, a few years ago, a model 3 in an unventilated plastic case had performance issues doing the "Be One" fireside. Ventilation is fairly important.

lajackson wrote:I have learned that, for a variety of reasons, there are no longer plans for the Church to provide receiving devices when the satellite systems are removed.

On the flip side, about a month or so back, I got a request to take photos of the dish including any obstacles that might be an issue.

I know when I filled out the form, I indicated a need for a number of languages. That may be driving a different decision in my case.

russellhltn wrote:I know when I filled out the form, I indicated a need for a number of languages. That may be driving a different decision in my case.

We use multiple languages. It does not seem to have affected the decision.

lajackson wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 11:29 am

bartj wrote:The device that will likely be provided for those that need one is an Android device. Something like a Mi Box, Nvidia Shield, or Google Chromebox. Only request the number of units needed based on the stakes broadcast plans moving forward.

We requested units for our stake. Has a preferred unit been selected? Is it available yet?

The satellite system at our stake center failed this week. It will not be repaired because of the satellite removal program this year. So I am ready for the first one of our requested replacement streaming devices.

Or if that is not going to happen, I need to know so that I can wire the stake clerks office administrative computer into the audiovisual system instead.

Careful on that last part, about wiring a clerk's computer into the A/V system. Take a look at Church Standards --> Tech Standards, in section 4 on computers - see here . If the clerk's computer has any membership information on it, even if it is only the MLS back-up files, then you may want to ensure it is secured, and not accessible to those without proper permission (presidents, bishops, and clerks for example).

Not being a STS or Stake President I did not find out about the streaming device until I submitted a trouble ticket because our RF modulator failed for the left hand side of the satellite pairings (English in the English Spanish pairing on satellite channel 101 for example), and being asked about it, then told no, no repairs are forthcoming. Now I have to work with my STS and Stake Physical Faculties Manager as only our computers (1 clerk and 2 FHC, all three running Win 10 Pro), firewall, and network switch is new, everything else is 19 years old (when the chapel was built), so we still have VCRs using composite connections to the TVs issued when the building first came into service. Makes life a bit more difficult for them, as not only do they have to decide what they need for the stake center, they also need to figure out what the five other chapels in the stake needs. I will most likely ask for two streaming devices, or smart TVs with it built in (current TVs are analog only, no DVI, DP, or HDMI), so we can do English in the chapel, and Spanish in the Relief Society room (once we have an Ethernet port installed there ).

bphilli7 wrote: Sun Nov 15, 2020 7:58 am Last year we purchased an ATSC HD modulator since all the overflow rooms use TVs less than 15 years old and have that built in.
I suppose I’ll keep the HD modulator and remove the other three, in time.

I was thinking of adding an ATSC modulator to send HD content to all of the existing RF ports in our old building (coax runs are too long for SDI to work reliably). At the gym ports where we connect projectors, I'd have to add ATSC de-modulators, so I'm wondering if you've done this too, and if so, do you see a significant/noticeable delay in the video compared to live. Since the people in the gym would see live line-of-sight as well as projected video, it could be quite annoying if the video is delayed too much (i.e. think of a chorister leading songs). Also would be a problem in the other rooms in the building if the house audio doesn't sync with the ATSC video that's been encoded at the modulator then decoded at the TVs.

I'm really curious to hear from you other others about using ATSC to send HD throughout the building. Modulator and de-modulator equipment models would be nice to know too.

Thanks!

The price tag I've seen for ATSC modulators is an incentive to find a different path.

It looks like the length limit of SDI is about 100 meters or 300 feet.

The real problem of trying to reuse the coax is many segments were set up with splitters and outlets with attenuators. Perfectly valid for RF, but deadly to SDI.

I found an answer to my question about ATSC. It looks like ATSC modulation/demodulation does add enough delay that line-of-sight viewers would find the gym projector video quite out-of-sync with the live presentation. Here's a link to a video that shows a church that is successfully using ATSC to send content to remote parts of their building which are out of earshot and view of the live service, but there's an issue with a monitor that's in the lobby that's behind in audio/video with the live service which can also be heard through the doors in the lobby. The first couple minutes show the issue. His solution is to use SDI for that one monitor. I've already tried SDI in our building and the coax runs are too long for it to work reliably. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ADbj6MCh1jE&t=236s

The stake installed an ATSC modulator in 2016 and have found it useful for rooms not directly viewing and hearing the chapel environment. The delay is enough to be annoying if you are paying attention. Channel 10.1 plays on all of the flat screens. SDI should not be pushed into the old RF distribution system with splitters in the way.