Payment Request menu in LCR Finance

Anybody have access to this "payment request" menu?
looks like it may be moving online ... there's a help page for it but the menu doesn't show up for me.

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/hel ... s?lang=eng

skiddlyarcus wrote:Anybody have access to this "payment request" menu?
looks like it may be moving online ... there's a help page for it but the menu doesn't show up for me.

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/hel ... s?lang=eng

That's very interesting. There is probably a beta program which has it enabled. No way to tell when it might go into wide release. Could be very soon, could be months based on previous betas.

Moderator Note: This thread was split from another thread since the topics are different.

Part of me thinks this would be cool. Part of me dreads it. I already struggle with poor quality images and missing information sent from members and leaders for reimbursements. It will only be harder once they submit on their own and the clerk has to go back to them and ask them to resubmit a better pic that is actually legible... Hopefully the church will implement a feature that will allow the member to correct the submission after they submit or it may end up increasing the workload instead of reducing it as designed.

We have created a reimbursement request form on our ward website (custom WordPress website - outside of the LDS website). It's working pretty well so far. A member can submit a request by filling in the form which includes fields like name, email, purpose of expenditure, organization, up to 5 receipts (required uploads) each with a description and an amount (automatically tallied). Upon submission, the organization president and the submitter (and clerk) receive the notification of the submission. The organization president needs to visit their review list that shows all of their organization's requests (each organization leader has their own list). They can edit them (login required) and check the organization approved checkbox. The Bishop is then notified that requests need to be approved. He visits his own review list and edits each of the requests by checking the Bishop approval checkbox. Once the organization pres. and the Bishop have both approved the reimbursement, the Financial Clerk is notified. He can then visit his list and see all of the requests that have been approved. He can then make the reimbursement and then edit each request and set his checkbox (completed). The original submitter is notified that the reimbursement has been completed. Each of these users' review pages only show the requests that they have to work on. The clerks and Bishop are able to see a different, more complete list of the full history list, as well as being able to see the back-end / admin of the submitted forms.

I'm betting that the Church will do this someday. We decided to get it done now. It sure beats using emails. It's also nice not to worry about losing receipts and tracking down organization presidents and Bishop. We're still working some of the bugs out but so far, everyone is working with it.

Just today (6Feb2020) I noticed a new option on the LCR Financial Dashboard; "Payment Request" .

In the help file it states that Leaders can now submit reimbursement requests

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/hel ... s?lang=eng

Any one else out there have experience with this? The instructions sound a lot like what I as a Financial Clerk already do. However, it does state "Organization leaders". I guess I'll ask the next reimbursement submitter to try it out as my Wards "Guinea Pig".

As a clerk you can take a look at the Payment Request feature by selecting an organization in the organization drop-down list box to the right of the budget page tabs and then select the Payment Request tab. The only categories available to the organization leader are their organization's budget categories - or it appears that way to me as a ward clerk. Any payment requests for other categories, such as ward Activities, I assume, will have to be submitted to the ward clerk or assistant ward clerk - finance for processing.

Under Manage Categories you can change the permissions of some (sub)categories to allow other organizations to see the budget and select those for reimbursement
you could create a separate "Special Activity" and give the permissions to the required organisations, they don't need to see the entire Activities budget

murdock20m wrote:Just today (6Feb2020) I noticed a new option on the LCR Financial Dashboard; "Payment Request" .

In the help file it states that Leaders can now submit reimbursement requests

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/hel ... s?lang=eng

Any one else out there have experience with this? The instructions sound a lot like what I as a Financial Clerk already do. However, it does state "Organization leaders". I guess I'll ask the next reimbursement submitter to try it out as my Wards "Guinea Pig".

I wonder how the process is supposed to work for this? Our stake clerk says the Bishop has to sign the authorization from AND approve it in LCR. He could also approve it via Email as long as that is uploaded. Does anyone know if that process should stay the same or if the authorization is taken care of when he approves it in LCR?

npw2005 wrote:

murdock20m wrote:Just today (6Feb2020) I noticed a new option on the LCR Financial Dashboard; "Payment Request" .

In the help file it states that Leaders can now submit reimbursement requests

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/hel ... s?lang=eng

Any one else out there have experience with this? The instructions sound a lot like what I as a Financial Clerk already do. However, it does state "Organization leaders". I guess I'll ask the next reimbursement submitter to try it out as my Wards "Guinea Pig".

I wonder how the process is supposed to work for this? Our stake clerk says the Bishop has to sign the authorization from AND approve it in LCR. He could also approve it via Email as long as that is uploaded. Does anyone know if that process should stay the same or if the authorization is taken care of when he approves it in LCR?

I think your stake clerk is adding requirements that are not in the policy. Once the bishop approves the reimbursement in LCR, it's done. There is no requirement for him to sign anything or send any email. His digital signature in LCR does all that.

davesudweeks wrote:Part of me thinks this would be cool. Part of me dreads it. I already struggle with poor quality images and missing information sent from members and leaders for reimbursements. It will only be harder once they submit on their own and the clerk has to go back to them and ask them to resubmit a better pic that is actually legible... Hopefully the church will implement a feature that will allow the member to correct the submission after they submit or it may end up increasing the workload instead of reducing it as designed.

Our ward has decided to discontinue our custom online reimbursement form - unfortunately - We're back to the paper reimbursement requests. I think it would have worked though. Our main issues had to do with user receipts and admin (tech abilities). We were having issues with the receipts. We would get really small images - totally unreadable, non-receipts from Amazon and other online services where the members would not get a complete picture of their purchase (with tax and itemized lists). Our Financial Clerk also wasn't very tech savvy so going into the administration to interactively click a couple buttons was a bit complicated. I'm a big proponent for an online system though it seems like there will be some hurdles to overcome.

davesudweeks wrote:

npw2005 wrote:
I wonder how the process is supposed to work for this? Our stake clerk says the Bishop has to sign the authorization from AND approve it in LCR. He could also approve it via Email as long as that is uploaded. Does anyone know if that process should stay the same or if the authorization is taken care of when he approves it in LCR?

I think your stake clerk is adding requirements that are not in the policy. Once the bishop approves the reimbursement in LCR, it's done. There is no requirement for him to sign anything or send any email. His digital signature in LCR does all that.

We have been told that bishop's approval in LCRF is sufficient. He's generally in the loop on expenses before they are submitted and I wouldn't submit anything that I had any question about or concern that he wouldn't approve without speaking directly with the bishop first. However, for general everyday expenses, we submit them in LCRF and wait for him to approve. The two counselors have been instructed to ignore the annoying emails telling them there are expenses for approval as the bishop needs to approve first. The only expenses they would approve are reimbursements for the bishop or in situations where we are on a time crunch and the bishop has provided verbal approval.

Has anyone actually used this new payment request? I tried to test it (as finance clerk), but I couldn't seem to select anyone to pay besides myself. I finally got it to select the first person alphabetically in the ward, and now that I submitted a test it shows on the LCRF homepage, but when I click it, I'm sent to expenses and don't see anything about that payment request.

Is this like everything else the church is rolling out before it is ready and we need to wait another 3-6 months before it is usable?

schester wrote:The two counselors have been instructed to ignore the annoying emails telling them there are expenses for approval as the bishop needs to approve first. The only expenses they would approve are reimbursements for the bishop or in situations where we are on a time crunch and the bishop has provided verbal approval.

There is nothing in the policy that prevents counselors from approving organization expenses. In fact, I believe it streamlines the process for members as their reimbursement can be processed more quickly and the busy bishop can give his final approval when he has time. As clerk, I could enter an expense reimbursement in LCR and a counselor could approve it the same evening. The member would receive their reimbursement in a few days. It could be several weeks if they had to wait for our bishop to get to it...

One would hope the counselors are already "in the know" on the expenses the organizations are incurring so nothing should be a surprise.

I believe the audit specifically says no funds are dispersed without explicit permission from the Bishop. That permission could be verbal, but he must approve before funds are sent.

davesudweeks wrote:

schester wrote:The two counselors have been instructed to ignore the annoying emails telling them there are expenses for approval as the bishop needs to approve first. The only expenses they would approve are reimbursements for the bishop or in situations where we are on a time crunch and the bishop has provided verbal approval.

There is nothing in the policy that prevents counselors from approving organization expenses. In fact, I believe it streamlines the process for members as their reimbursement can be processed more quickly and the busy bishop can give his final approval when he has time. As clerk, I could enter an expense reimbursement in LCR and a counselor could approve it the same evening. The member would receive their reimbursement in a few days. It could be several weeks if they had to wait for our bishop to get to it...

One would hope the counselors are already "in the know" on the expenses the organizations are incurring so nothing should be a surprise.

This is not true, the Bishop must authorize every expense before it is paid.

"Expenses must be approved by the stake president or bishop before they are incurred. His approval may be verbal or written. A member requesting reimbursement provides the receipts or invoices electronically (a picture or scan) or a physical copy showing the amount and date of the purchase. The member indicates which category the expense is for. If a receipt or invoice is not available, the member should provide a full written explanation of the expense, including the date, amount of the purchase, and category.

The reimbursement or expense information is entered into Leader and Clerk Resources (LCR). Units not using LCR should follow local procedures.

Two authorized leaders must approve each expense; one of them must be a member of the stake presidency or bishopric. An authorized leader should not approve the expense if he is the payee or fast-offering recipient.

The stake president or the bishop must also review each expense unless he is one of the initial approvers." This is in the instructions for reimbursement.

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/hel ... s?lang=eng

brown67 wrote:

davesudweeks wrote:

schester wrote:The two counselors have been instructed to ignore the annoying emails telling them there are expenses for approval as the bishop needs to approve first. The only expenses they would approve are reimbursements for the bishop or in situations where we are on a time crunch and the bishop has provided verbal approval.

There is nothing in the policy that prevents counselors from approving organization expenses. In fact, I believe it streamlines the process for members as their reimbursement can be processed more quickly and the busy bishop can give his final approval when he has time. As clerk, I could enter an expense reimbursement in LCR and a counselor could approve it the same evening. The member would receive their reimbursement in a few days. It could be several weeks if they had to wait for our bishop to get to it...

One would hope the counselors are already "in the know" on the expenses the organizations are incurring so nothing should be a surprise.

This is not true, the Bishop must authorize every expense before it is paid.

"Expenses must be approved by the stake president or bishop before they are incurred. His approval may be verbal or written. A member requesting reimbursement provides the receipts or invoices electronically (a picture or scan) or a physical copy showing the amount and date of the purchase. The member indicates which category the expense is for. If a receipt or invoice is not available, the member should provide a full written explanation of the expense, including the date, amount of the purchase, and category.

The reimbursement or expense information is entered into Leader and Clerk Resources (LCR). Units not using LCR should follow local procedures.

Two authorized leaders must approve each expense; one of them must be a member of the stake presidency or bishopric. An authorized leader should not approve the expense if he is the payee or fast-offering recipient.

The stake president or the bishop must also review each expense unless he is one of the initial approvers." This is in the instructions for reimbursement.

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/hel ... s?lang=eng

The bishop must authorize the "expense" to the ward budget (this can be verbal with no documented record). The counselors are within policy to approve the "reimbursement" for the expense the bishop has already approved. These are two different things as one happens before the expense is incurred and the other happens after. If the bishop is not one of the approvers of the reimbursement, he also must approve that.

I was referring to the approval of the reimbursement after an expense was already verbally approved by the bishop. I admit my choice of words could have been better. It was to answer a unit who was erroneously thinking that the bishop must be the first approver of every "reimbursement" which is not required by policy and not enforced by LCR.

brown67 wrote:"Expenses must be approved by the stake president or bishop before they are incurred. His approval may be verbal or written. (emphasis added)

You are correct that the bishop must approve before the expense is incurred, but this thread is talking about the required written approval that the auditors will be looking for that happens during the reimbursement process.

This is my question is where does the request go to get approved and processed? Did not see selection for the submitter to declare EFT or check.

davidlh wrote:Did not see selection for the submitter to declare EFT or check.

To some degree, I suspect that's the clerk's option. But if the member has enabled EFT, then it will probably be assumed that's the preferred method.

When I was clerk, we told our ward council to pass the word through their organizations that we would always reimburse via EFT if it was available unless the member specifically requested a paper check.

My question comes around the Bishop's approval. Note that the Bishop has an "acknowledgement" step in the process AFTER it is approved by the clerk and counselor (or 2 counselors). That step is not an approval because the payments go out after the clerk/counselor approvals but before the Bishop's acknowledgement (e.g. the electronic version of signing the old report that listed the checks that were written).

I haven't tried this new system yet. I'm guessing it is still assuming the Bishop's approval happened, verbally or otherwise, before the person purchased the items. Our current process is that I, as a clerk, send an email with a reimbursement request (with details and receipts) to the bishop before I start the process in LCR. I see another poster has the Bishop approve instead of the counselor to solve this problem.

I agree. My stake leaders have told me that while we do not need to use a Reimbursement Request Form as such, we need to capture an email that contains the same information, including the bishop's approval before we create the expense item in LCR. I print the email chain to a PDF, and attach it to the expense item. I would prefer that the bishop sign in to LCR and approve the expense before the EFT is issued.

If I'm following this thread correctly, there's still some muddied waters regarding what exactly this "Prior Approval" of the Bishop actually entails ("Expenses must be approved by the stake president or bishop before they are incurred"). My understanding is that a Bishop approves an organization's budget at the beginning (hopefully before) of the calendar year, and this constitutes the pre-approval for most normal expenses. After that, each organization has discretion as to how to spend their money, and individual organization expenses are not required to have an additional approval from the Bishop prior to incurring that particular expense. The Bishop reviews organization expenses (post-expense-approval), and will address any concerns with the organization president.

If the Bishop is supposed to be aware of each individual expense before it is incurred, approving either verbally or in writing, that's quite different. I know I'm hijacking the thread from the OP, sorry...

Section 34.6.7 of the Handbook says

Although counselors may be authorized to sign checks, they should not do so unless the stake president or bishop has approved the expenditure.

And Section 34.7.1 says

No stake or ward expenses may be incurred or paid without the presiding officer’s authorization.

As far as I know those are the relevant statements in the handbook. I don't have access to the audit question so I can't say exactly how it's worded. The bishop and stake president (in connection with the audit committee and area auditor) are responsible to fill in any details that are not clear based on those statements.

But I've always worked under the interpretation that each individual expense must be explicitly approved by the bishop before it is paid. I've never been in a ward where the the bishop has approved each purchase made by a member for an activity before the member made the purchase and then submitted the reimbursement. But the bishop always either signs the reimbursement request, signs the check (or approves the EFT) or gives his verbal/email approval to the check signers or EFT approvers. And, of course, organization are expected to stay within their budget as approved by the bishop.

BrianEdwards wrote:If I'm following this thread correctly, there's still some muddied waters regarding what exactly this "Prior Approval" of the Bishop actually entails ("Expenses must be approved by the stake president or bishop before they are incurred"). My understanding is that a Bishop approves an organization's budget at the beginning (hopefully before) of the calendar year, and this constitutes the pre-approval for most normal expenses. After that, each organization has discretion as to how to spend their money, and individual organization expenses are not required to have an additional approval from the Bishop prior to incurring that particular expense. The Bishop reviews organization expenses (post-expense-approval), and will address any concerns with the organization president.

If the Bishop is supposed to be aware of each individual expense before it is incurred, approving either verbally or in writing, that's quite different. I know I'm hijacking the thread from the OP, sorry...

I asked our auditor about this yesterday. He says he is aware some bishop's use the "I approved the budget" approach, but he said that doesn't really meet the intent of the question.

eblood66 wrote:Although counselors may be authorized to sign checks, they should not do so unless the stake president or bishop has approved the expenditure

Understood. I believe my and others' interpretation is that "approving the expenditure" is not specifically approving beforehand that the RS will be buying two plastic tablecloths at the dollar store for their upcoming activity. But rather, approving that the RS will be having 4 evening activities this year, and that expenses incurred as a part of those activities are all approved. So buying the plastic tablecloths is an approved expenditure, because it's for an approved activity, and part of an approved budget.

But I ask because while this may make sense to me, if we really are not aligned with the intent, then I'd like us to change and make better efforts to do just that. I empathize with those who try and produce a clearly-worded handbook that ends up being nit-picked to death...

I am looking at an audit PDF from January 2014. It specified several ways to determine if the bishop approved the payment. Granted, the new electronic review and approval process makes a physical signature OBE.

Did the bishop approve all payments?
• Look at the payment records. Make sure the bishop has approved the payments by signing at least one of the
following: original invoice, original bill, original receipt, or payment request form. The bishop’s signature on the MLS
Expense Report is acceptable proof of his approval.
• The bishop may approve automatic charges by signing a printed copy of the IROP. The bishop’s signature on the
Unit Financial Statement, along with his verbal confirmation to the auditor that he authorized the automatic charge, is
also acceptable proof of his approval.

drepouille wrote:I am looking at an audit PDF from January 2014. It specified several ways to determine if the bishop approved the payment. Granted, the new electronic review and approval process makes a physical signature OBE.

Did the bishop approve all payments?
• Look at the payment records. Make sure the bishop has approved the payments by signing at least one of the
following: original invoice, original bill, original receipt, or payment request form. The bishop’s signature on the MLS
Expense Report is acceptable proof of his approval.
• The bishop may approve automatic charges by signing a printed copy of the IROP. The bishop’s signature on the
Unit Financial Statement, along with his verbal confirmation to the auditor that he authorized the automatic charge, is
also acceptable proof of his approval.

Audit Question 9 is currently "Did the Bishop review and authorize the payment?"

The auditor is directed to review the payment records, which includes digital records.

If the Bishop signs the check, LUFAS identifies his signature and pre-answers the question Yes.
If the Bishop reviewed the transaction at some point using the electronic review process, the question is pre-answered Yes.

The access table will show you that all auxiliary presidencies have access to "Payment Request" and can view their budget in LCR. However Bishoprics and Clerks cannot submit a payment request. Probably because we can just enter the expense directly. The Bishop will have to approve all of the requests just like he would have to sign all of the reimbursement request papers. The expense enters the expense system and will need to be approved by someone else before processing. Just like if you entered the expense yourself.

The nice thing is if the member picks ACH then the whole process is super quick. Presidency members can also enter expenses from people in their auxiliaries, (i.e. advisors and specialists, activity day leaders and such) Done well, the financial clerk will not need to enter any expense reimbursements himself. People wont need to wait to find a form and such. Really slick.

It is unclear which "Organization leaders can submit receipts for church-related expenses" [1]. When I view the access table in LCR, I can only find "Payment Request" checked for organization presidencies but not the Bishop, his counselors, or clerks.

Contrary to this, my experience shows that the bishopric, clerks (me), and even a priest's quorum advisor have all reported to me that they have access to this feature but a teacher's quorum specialist has reported that he does not.

I would like to communicate clearly to our ward members to whom they should submit payment requests for various organizations. Without knowing exactly who has access to the feature, this is difficult. Can anyone clarify?

[1] https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/hel ... s?lang=eng

As this thread is quite stale, I'd suggest reading through another thread such as this one:
viewtopic.php?f=116&t=39317&p=225333&hi ... st#p225333
There's a few other active threads you can find if you search for something like "Payment Request", which might clarify things a bit (although in the end, it's still a bit muddled...)