Erasing hard drives with BleachBit

The official instructions in the Help Center for scrubbing a hard drive of a decommissioned clerk computer are found here: Erasing a Hard Drive. But I found the results to be entirely unsatisfactory.

The instructions say to use BleachBit to first scrub the free space and then shred all folders on the C drive. However, those instructions tell you to do so when Windows is fully running, which of course makes many files inaccessible for erasure. Even allowing for that issue, I found that it left many files intact -- after following those steps, I could still reboot and found that a file containing membership data was on the desktop (yeah, it never should have been there, but the clerk for that ward was not too careful with data security), and LibreOffice could still open that file. So BleachBit completely failed.

I've never used BleachBit before, but I'm completely unimpressed. I've always used DBAN and had great results. Once upon a time, DBAN was recommended by the Church (you can see references in old discussions here, such as this one). But now that DBAN has been acquired by Blancco, when you visit dban.org, it looks like DBAN is now only licensed for personal use. However, that was not always the case; see, for example, this post from Darik Horn (author of DBAN) himself. I'm inclined to use my old version of DBAN, which I got when DBAN was licensed under the GNU Public License. A new owner can't retroactively change the license terms.

Thoughts?

The most effective way of destroying data, on a hard drive, I've found is called a hammer.

Doesn't consume a lot of time energy etc., and is 100% effective!

The ability to wipe a drive you booted from isn't covered in the BleachBit documentation, so we have to assume it was written by the church. I think their assumption was if all the folders that can be shredded are shredded, the only thing left is the OS, which doesn't have any sensitive data. Obviously, this is flawed. The best way to scrub a drive is to mount it as a data drive on another PC (either internally, or via a USB adapter) and wipe it there. Another option would be to boot from a USB device or CD/DVD drive with an OS that can access the file structure of the former C: drive making it available for wiping. I used DBAN in this way and never had any issues. It appears BleachBit can also be run as a portable app.

Biggles wrote:The most effective way of destroying data, on a hard drive, I've found is called a hammer.

Doesn't consume a lot of time energy etc., and is 100% effective!

When equipment goes to the recycler, the company(s) the church contracts with either disposes of it (in the proper manner) or resells it. For the latter, the church gets some undisclosed percentage of the sales. Physically damaging the hard drive reduces the resale value of the PC.

Mikerowaved wrote:

Biggles wrote:The most effective way of destroying data, on a hard drive, I've found is called a hammer.

Doesn't consume a lot of time energy etc., and is 100% effective!

When equipment goes to the recycler, the company(s) the church contracts with either disposes of it (in the proper manner) or resells it. For the latter, the church gets some undisclosed percentage of the sales. Physically damaging the hard drive reduces the resale value of the PC.

That is the ideal solution, if you can wipe the data effectively. We have found it very difficult to find a company that will dispose of redundant equipment and give some some undisclosed percentage of the sales! Perhaps this thread might bring forth some leads for this to happen in the UK.

Biggles wrote:

Mikerowaved wrote:

Biggles wrote:The most effective way of destroying data, on a hard drive, I've found is called a hammer.

Doesn't consume a lot of time energy etc., and is 100% effective!

When equipment goes to the recycler, the company(s) the church contracts with either disposes of it (in the proper manner) or resells it. For the latter, the church gets some undisclosed percentage of the sales. Physically damaging the hard drive reduces the resale value of the PC.

That is the ideal solution, if you can wipe the data effectively. We have found it very difficult to find a company that will dispose of redundant equipment and give some some undisclosed percentage of the sales! Perhaps this thread might bring forth some leads for this to happen in the UK.

In the USA, some tech stores will accept tech for recycling. They don't give you any credit for them, but I assume they dispose of it properly (at least they claim they do). In my experience, they won't accept Hard Disk Drives (I think they don't want any liability for anything that may be on them). I simply remove the drive and take the rest of the components to their drop-off point rather than put them out with the trash. I'm speaking of personal items that I personally own.

It is possible that the church has some system set up for recycling old equipment - I would expect the FM group would know if anyone does as they are the ones who change out unit computers.

davesudweeks wrote:It is possible that the church has some system set up for recycling old equipment - I would expect the FM group would know if anyone does as they are the ones who change out unit computers.

Yes, I'm referring to the recyclers the FM Groups are contracted with.

The fact is, the hard drive isn't ours to remove or destroy. It belongs to the church and we need to follow their guidelines for scrubbing it, which aebrown pointed out are currently flawed.

I agree with aebrown above. The instructions using Bleachbit on the churches website didn't work for me on 4 computers (I lost hours of my life last night ). I'm thinking that if I had uninstalled Sophos first, maybe it would have worked. At the end (the next morning) I had 4 computers in an inconsistent state where Bleachbit would no longer run, even after reinstalling it and the data files were all still there (Shredding folders had failed... "access denied").

SOLUTION: I used DBAN. I created a bootable media using DBAN and quickly ran the default 3 pass scrub option on each computer. It took about 10-15 min to create a bootable DVD and boot to each computer, but then I walked away and 5hrs later all computers were scrubbed completely. No data files or even any system files to boot to. NICE!

I Vote for DBAN, but I did notice that it might not be FREE for organizations... I wonder if this is why we don't use it anymore.

For issues with the process outlined on the webpage, please send detailed feedback via the link at the bottom of the page. That is how those over this process can know about the issues being experienced.

Hi! I found that BleachBit was too archaic. I've open sourced my solution. You're more than welcome to use it. You can burn it to CD/DVD or image a USB. I provide instructions. This will shred (random write first pass, second pass zeros) across any disk attached to the computer at boot time. After the wipe, the system powers off, so for the large slow disks, you can just let it go and it will power off when complete.

Enjoy!

https://github.com/bretep/debian-custom ... tag/v0.0.1

Pull requests are welcome. The branch I built this on is called shred-disk. If you have docker installed you can clone that branch and increase the passes shred makes. It takes only a few seconds to make a new custom image.

bretep wrote:Hi! I found that BleachBit was too archaic. I've open sourced my solution. You're more than welcome to use it. You can burn it to CD/DVD or image a USB. I provide instructions. This will shred (random write first pass, second pass zeros) across any disk attached to the computer at boot time. After the wipe, the system powers off, so for the large slow disks, you can just let it go and it will power off when complete.

Enjoy!

https://github.com/bretep/debian-custom ... tag/v0.0.1

Pull requests are welcome. The branch I built this on is called shred-disk. If you have docker installed you can clone that branch and increase the passes shred makes. It takes only a few seconds to make a new custom image.

After running bleachbit for hours, I don't think it deleted anything. Thank you Bretep for this solution. It was super easy. Just plug in the USB, boot, and walk away. The next morning the disk was completely wiped. A huge time-saving solution!

You’re welcome! Glad you enjoyed the simplicity. Make sure you mark that USB drive or erase it. Don’t want to accidentally erase a good computer.

Also, please star the GitHub project so it can get more attention. I hope it saves others time as well.

It's odd to me that the official instructions https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/hel ... e?lang=eng still list BleachBit 2.2 as the hard drive wiping tool. The Sophos antivirus/antimalware software detects BleachBit as "Malicious Behavior" shortly after attempting to do the C: drive folder shredding step, so I'm pretty sure this is why we're not seeing the expected file deletion. Sophos just blocks BleachBit's ability to shred. I can't find any way to configure Sophos to white-list BleachBit, so the official wiping instructions are outdated and ineffective.

Is anyone from the Church Technology Department monitoring this thread? Are we really expected to find homemade or self-discovered software solutions to this requirement for disposal of old Clerk PCs? I'm not comfortable with this haphazard approach to deleting sensitive data. Surely there's an official church-sanctioned approach to something so critical.

enelson5 wrote:Is anyone from the Church Technology Department monitoring this thread?

Probably not. I'd send feedback to the mht email.

It can be found in the Support Resources Overview.

While I agree the Church should update their recommendation, you should know the software I wrote is not haphazard, as it is my profession to write software you use every day.

So you feel more comfortable, It is using the same software bleachbit and all the “paid” software uses. (Yes they wrap open source software, read their license agreement.)

I just made it quick and easy without all the nonsense and you can read 100% of the code (which you can’t do with paid for software).

Wiping a drive is a very simple task. Depending on if it’s a magnetic spinning hard drive or a SSD you write over the block many times using random data, or flip all the bits to 0 and 1 many times as in the case of an SSD.

The Church recommends tools to use. Follow the guidance given, which is to wipe the drives. Use the provided instructions or find a tool that works for you.

D&C 58:26
26 For behold, it is not meet that I should command in all things; for he that is compelled in all things, the same is a slothful and not a wise servant; wherefore he receiveth no reward.

bretep wrote:You’re welcome! Glad you enjoyed the simplicity. Make sure you mark that USB drive or erase it. Don’t want to accidentally erase a good computer.

Definitely! I labeled it "disk shredder".

I'm an engineer by profession and have some experience programming and building personal computers, so I'm conversant but not an expert. I personally dislike repetitive tasks that take a lot time, so Bret's solution was excellent. I understand functionally what it is doing: it does what the MHT instructions are asking for, twice over. It wipes the drive before we send the old computer in for asset recovery. It would take me hours to recreate the same kind of solution or to figure out how to get BleachBIt to work effectively, so I'm grateful for the prepackaged solution Bret offered online. Many thanks!

bretep wrote:While I agree the Church should update their recommendation, you should know the software I wrote is not haphazard, as it is my profession to write software you use every day.

I'll take your word on your capabilities, but I shouldn't have to put this task into the hands of someone I don't know, and whose capabilities or credentials must be verified by walking through source code. The issue here is liability in the case that somehow sensitive data was retrieved from a decommissioned clerk PC. If we follow the instructions and use the tools provided by the Church, we would be legally safe. If we go off on our own, and our solution isn't sanctioned by the Church and doesn't work as the Church intends, we could be personally liable if sensitive data is recovered from an incorrectly wiped drive. That's all I'm saying.

I've emailed mht@churchofjesuschrist.org for clarification and direction. I'll post back if they respond.

Here's what I got from MHT:

TL;DR - They're working on a solution. Meanwhile, use whatever you think is a "good solution for your calling". The solution from bretep seems to be fair game to use, though completely unvetted by MHT. I'm using it and it appears to get the job done. Thanks bretep!

MHT: Our team is working to find a new solution now. Please see the link below to find a common solution other members are using in the meantime. Thank you for your patience!
viewtopic.php?f=48&t=34208&start=10 (Note, the link was to this very thread!)

Eric: Interesting that you’d link to that thread. You’ll note that I posted my concerns about not having an official working solution from the Church for this problem. Are you really suggesting that I use some software written by a random contributor to wipe sensitive data from a clerk PC?

MHT: Our Clerk Computers team has just begun the process of researching a new solution to replace BleachBit. This process will not happen overnight. We recognize the situation is not ideal, but ultimately we trust you to find a good solution for your calling. As you’ve probably seen, a few members recommend using this: https://github.com/bretep/debian-custom ... tag/v0.0.1. If other members have used it and recommend it, then it very well could be a trustworthy solution. Sorry for not giving you the concrete answer you’re looking for. We are working on the new solution as of this moment, and appreciate your patience with us as we work through this process.

I use the Ultimate Boot CD, which can also be put on a bootable flash drive. There are no less than 10 disk wiping tools available.

No matter what you use, ONE PASS is all you need to prevent any chance of recovering previous data. There are MANY references to this on the Internet. Here's just one.

SSD's are slightly different and must use a wiping tool specifically for them to make sure unreachable data areas get wiped also.