Priests ordaining Deacons, Teachers, Priests

The question has arisen regarding the ordaining of Deacons, Teachers, and Priests by a Melchizedek priesthood holder while a Priest is standing in the circle. The question is, is the ordination performed by the Melchizedek or Aaronic priesthood, which in turn begs question of whether or not it is "I" ordain you or "We" ordain you, in which instance I understand that it would be by the authority of the Aaronic priesthood. My understanding is that it is the individual who is giving voice to the ordination, therefore "I" should be used, and in turn it is the priesthood of the individual doing the ordaining that should be indicated.

Please advise.

As outlined in Handbook 2: 20.7.1, it's acceptable for a Priest to be in the circle if it's the Aaronic Priesthood that's being conferred.

While the manual doesn't say what authority is being used when an Elder ordains a Priest, speaking for myself, I'd find it odd for a Priest to be in the circle if that particular action is being done under the authority of the Melchizedek Priesthood.

Correct, I have reviewed the Handbook section thoroughly and it still leaves the window open for some interpretation. The issue really becomes a matter of syntax, is it the "I ordain you" or the " we ordain you" question. If the group is ordaining (which seams odd to me) then I can see the authority being used as Aaronic. If it is the individual acting as voice, then I see the "I ordain" you as a matter resulting in the authority being stated as that which the individual holds.

Still searching, still looking.....

Thank you for your insight and thoughts.

Here are a few thoughts:

The bishop is the president of the Aaronic Priesthood in a ward (Handbook 2, 8.3.1). He authorizes and he or someone under his direction performs Aaronic Priesthood ordinations (Handbook 2, 20.7.1). The stake president is the president of the Melchizedek Priesthood in a stake (Handbook 2, 7.2.1). He authorizes and he or someone under his direction performs Melchizedek Priesthood ordinations (Handbook 2, 20.7.1).

Those participating in an ordination must hold appropriate priesthood office. For example, only high priests may participate when someone is being ordained a high priest. (Handbook 2, 20.7.1) Or, stated another way, everyone participating in the ordination must be a high priest when ordaining a high priest. My interpretation of that is that the priesthood office of everyone participating in the ordinance is relevant and that "we" are performing the ordination. If a priest is participating, he only has Aaronic Priesthood authority to exercise.

Final thought: I am a software developer in Church IT, not the presiding authority for these ordinances. This question is best answered by the presiding authority (the bishop in this case). If he is unsure, he can counsel with his stake president. If the stake president is unsure, he can counsel with an area or general authority to determine the answer to the question.

"By the authority of the Melchizedek and the Aaronic Priesthood, we . . ." is the way I heard it done once. I do not believe there is anything in the Handbook about terminology.

A priest can ordain other priests using his aaronic priesthood. if a melchizedek priesthood holder ordains a priest he is technically using the aaronic priesthood. if a priest is in the circle, he could say "by the authority of the priesthood". Remember, John the Baptist said this when he ordained Joseph Smith: Upon you my fellow servants, in the name of Messiah, I confer the Priesthood of Aaron...

A Melchizedek Priesthood holds also the Aaronic priesthood, so i think he can use I or we.....

twetwink wrote:A Melchizedek Priesthood holds also the Aaronic priesthood, so i think he can use I or we.....

It's usually true that the Aaronic Priesthood is conferred before the Melchizedek Priesthood, but that's not always the case (for example, recent converts might be directly ordained an elder). Someone who holds an office in the Melchizedek Priesthood has the authority to act in the offices of Deacon, Teacher, and Priest, because of his Melchizedek Priesthood office, not because he may (or may not) have been ordained to an office in the Aaronic Priesthood.

sbradshaw wrote:... recent converts might be directly ordained an elder...

Recent converts who are male and old enough to receive the priesthood should be ordained to an appropriate office in the Aaronic Priesthood shortly after confirmation. Under normal circumstances, they would not be ordained an elder without having first received the Aaronic Priesthood.

Here are the last two paragraphs from Handbook 2, 5.2.2:

[The bishop and his counselors] ensure that brethren who are at least age 11 and turning 12 during the year are ordained to the appropriate Aaronic Priesthood office soon after their confirmation, normally within a week. They also see that these brethren receive opportunities to exercise the priesthood. Brethren who are worthy to be baptized and confirmed are also worthy to receive the Aaronic Priesthood.

The bishop and his counselors oversee the work of the elders quorum president in helping brethren ages 18 and older prepare to receive the Melchizedek Priesthood. Recently baptized brethren ages 18 and older are ordained elders after they have served as priests, developed sufficient understanding of the gospel, and demonstrated their worthiness. No specific time as a member is required.

scgallafent wrote:Here are the last two paragraphs from Handbook 2, 5.2.2:

Thanks for finding that. I was looking at 7.6.2:
"Prospective elders should be ordained as soon as they are reasonably prepared, without unnecessary waiting periods."

Without the passage specifically addressing converts, that could be reasonably interpreted as allowing a "prepared" convert to become an Elder right away.

D&C 20:48

mrallen1 wrote:A priest can ordain other priests using his aaronic priesthood. if a melchizedek priesthood holder ordains a priest he is technically using the aaronic priesthood. if a priest is in the circle, he could say "by the authority of the priesthood". Remember, John the Baptist said this when he ordained Joseph Smith: Upon you my fellow servants, in the name of Messiah, I confer the Priesthood of Aaron...

I like this and it would match verbiage used elsewhere.

acw39 wrote:When both a Melchizedek priesthood, and an Aaronic priesthood holder (priest) stand in the same circle for a priest ordination then the authority that is stated is by the priesthood. So for example by the authority of the priesthood we ordained you to the office of priest.

That is one way of doing it. I have heard several other wordings that also work just fine.

Ordaining using "I" or "We": If "We" is used, then wouldn't you list the names of all involved in that persons line of authority. I think "I" makes more sense.

Church handbook is quite clear on this. I don't know how to post a screenshot of the handbook on here since this is my first post.

Authorized priesthood holder, in this case anyone ordained as a priest or higher my participate.

2. States the authority HE holds to perform the ordinance.

So the answer is, state the priesthood you hold regardless of who is in the circle and I is used as the spokesperson.

I should add, that we can be used during the blessing as well and isn't wrong to say since you are acting as a group.

erikgoetz wrote: Sun Jan 23, 2022 9:05 am Church handbook is quite clear on this. I don't know how to post a screenshot of the handbook on here since this is my first post.

...

(Thank you for your post, and welcome to the Forums.)

In case the reference hasn't already been posted earlier in this thread, the detailed instructions are in section 18.10.5 of the handbook.

2. States the authority HE holds to perform the ordinance.

Not sure if the Handbook was subsequently updated or if the poster just missed the additional word, but as of 10/25/22, here's the complete verbiage of bullet 2 in GHB 18.10.5 (the word personally is included):
2. States the authority he personally holds to perform the ordinance (either the Aaronic or Melchizedek Priesthood).

We had this topic come up just recently and I think the handbook has been even updated since the last post. It now adds “personally” referring to the individual conferring or ordaining.

1. Calls the person by his full name.

2. States the authority he personally holds to perform the ordinance (either the Aaronic or Melchizedek Priesthood).

This is found in 18.10.5

May I ask the following question?
It is said that only Melchisedek Priesthood holders can give blessings.
Also that a priest can ordain priests, teachers and deacons.
In this case, what about the step “give words of blessing…” ? I cannot find any general instruction on this.

In this case, what about the step “give words of blessing…” ? I cannot find any general instruction on this.

As you note, there's a difference between what's generally referred to as a Priesthood Blessing (administering to the sick GHB 18.13.1, or blessings of comfort and counsel GHB 18.14.1), and giving words of blessing. In the section on conferring the priesthood and ordaining to an office, in GHB 18.10.4 (who performs the ordinance) and GHB 18.10.5 (instructions), there is no distinction made between an authorized Priest and a Melchizedek Priesthood holder in who can "gives words of blessing as guided by the Spirit." (step 5 in the instructions)

Additionally, there is specific wording in GHB 18.10.5 that "An ordination is an opportunity to give a blessing." If a Priest was not able to give words of blessing when ordaining, that would seem to go counter to this specific instruction.

While an ordination is an opportunity to give a blessing, a blessing is not a required component of the ordination. If the priest were uncomfortable about giving a blessing, he could simply complete the ordination. Sometimes we get hung up on a tradition of doing things a certain way and while tradition can be a very good thing, it isn't necessarily doctrine.

In 18.10.5 the handbook states:

States the authority he personally holds to perform the ordinance (either the Aaronic or Melchizedek Priesthood).

Regarding the question of we vs I, the handbook isn’t clear and either would be acceptable in my opinion. This is probably one of those areas where “we” feels more appropriate given all those men/priests are there standing together, but again I think either would be fine.