Children of divorced parent - two wards

What is the policy concerning records for children where the parents are divorced and live in different stakes & wards and they both want the children's records in their home wards?

cwhiting wrote:What is the policy concerning records for children where the parents are divorced and live in different stakes & wards and they both want the children's records in their home wards?

Although I don't know of a direct answer to this particular question, the guidance in the MLS help file under "Confidential Nature of Records" says that a parent of a member can only see membership records if:

1. The parents have legal custody.
2. The child is under 18.
3. The child is living in the household.

It seems that if the Church restricts viewing of the membership records this way, then the location of the records would seem to follow similar guidelines.

Thus I would say that the key questions are: Who has legal custody and where do the children live? Hopefully you get the same answer for both questions. If so, it seems to me that you have your answer as to where the records should be.

The church needs to handle the reality of joint custody. It's been around for a day or two.

As Alan states, if one parent has custody and the children live with them it may be an easy answer. If there is joint custody then this is one of those situations where direction from the proper Priesthood authority is necessary. As scion mentions, a joint custody situation complicates the matter and more information would be needed to make an informed decision. I would not discuss the particulars in the forums but take it to the bishop first - who then would take it to the stake president - who then would take it to an area autority and so on.

jdlessley wrote:As Alan states, if one parent has custody and the children live with them it may be an easy answer. If there is joint custody then this is one of those situations where direction from the proper Priesthood authority is necessary. As scion mentions, a joint custody situation complicates the matter and more information would be needed to make an informed decision. I would not discuss the particulars in the forums but take it to the bishop first - who then would take it to the stake president - who then would take it to an area autority and so on.

I would hope that the PH leaders would get input from the parents and the children themselves before deciding where the records go. I would think that the records should probably go to whichever ward they would most be attending.

Where there is shared custody & the minors are youth, having access to the ward calendars and stake directories for each stake are important for the youth to maintain some semblance of normalcy & be included. Others need to be able to reach them readily, too. Ahhh, but I digress. I'm back to the need for multiple phone numbers with designations for cell . . .

Would this be a situation where an "out of unit member" entry in MLS would do the job? Clearly, the record can only belong in one Ward, and I wouldn't want to see it go back and forth every week or month. But this might get them the visibility they need in the other ward.

RussellHltn wrote:Would this be a situation where an "out of unit member" entry in MLS would do the job?

I say they should definitely be included as "out of unit members" in the ward that doesn't have the records. This way, they will show up in lists for both wards. But of course they will only be counted in the ward with the membership records for quarterly reporting purposes.

This is a very interesting discussion.

I've long held a position that the custodial parent's ward should hold the records. As yet, I haven't had to consider dual custody conditions. For dual custody isn't one parent designated as being their official residence, at least for the court's needs?

Regarding transferring records back and forth, a rule of thumb (and possibly in the handbook) was to request records if members were expected to reside in the ward for at least 3 months. The old paper records system rule used to be 6 months. With the current speed of transfers I readily request records when I can reasonably expect members to be around for a while. Besides, it gives me a chance to deal with records corrections that may be needed.

Regardless of whether or not we have their records, our ward seems to be well aware and very inclusive of these special needs children. Primary occasionally asks me to request records for children of divorced parents, and I reply that custodial parents have prime rights. No one has yet reported that the parent the children visit actually is or has become the custodial parent.

It's been interesting to watch as our Primary (through several presidencies) has consistently fellowshipped these special little ones. We've even been part of preparing little lost grandchildren, nephews, and nieces (not of divorces) for baptism.

jpjonesxyz wrote:I've long held a position that the custodial parent's ward should hold the records. As yet, I haven't had to consider dual custody conditions. For dual custody isn't one parent designated as being their official residence, at least for the court's needs?

I think this is a good general rule to follow, and likely it will be the right ward 4 out of 5 times (or maybe even 9 out of 10 times). I can imagine a few factors that could change where the record should reside, for instance the custodial parent may be completely inactive, not bringing the child to church, while the other parent may be fairly active.

Like I said, your general rule is a good one and will prove correct a vast majority of the time. I personally think it is wise to ask a follow-up question, and that is "In which ward will the child be best fellowshipped?" It's an extremely important consideration.

The problem that arises is that even though we may create an out-of-unit-member record, that does not keep us updated on ordinances. There needs to be a mechanism for updaing out-of-unit member records from CHQ.

One situation we have is a divorced family where the mother has legal custody, and therefor the records, but the children, including two young men, actually attend church in our ward more often than in their mother's ward. Since the records are in the other ward, that is where ordinations occur. Since we don't have those records or access to them, we have no way of knowing when the ordinations occur.

rpyne wrote:The problem that arises is that even though we may create an out-of-unit-member record, that does not keep us updated on ordinances. There needs to be a mechanism for updaing out-of-unit member records from CHQ.

One situation we have is a divorced family where the mother has legal custody, and therefor the records, but the children, including two young men, actually attend church in our ward more often than in their mother's ward. Since the records are in the other ward, that is where ordinations occur. Since we don't have those records or access to them, we have no way of knowing when the ordinations occur.

There is no substitute for good communications between bishoprics, or clerks, familiar with the family situation. Granted software such as MLS has come a long way to replace doing things the 'old fashion' way, but there will always be a need for direct communications to handle the situations MLS has not caught up to taking care of.

I have joint custody with my previous husband and we both are active. This has caused a lot of heartache for me as the church has no stance on what to do in this situation. I left an abusive relationship so I had to move out and started attending a new ward and the kids records remain in the homeward with their dad. It is really frustrating as a mom not to have your kids records with you. The church needs to come up with a solution to the problem. There should be a way that the records are in both wards because the kids attend both wards equally.

Amandaticelds wrote:There should be a way that the records are in both wards because the kids attend both wards equally.

This is a very old thread and things have changed since the last post. Your clerk can now create out-of-unit records for your children. These records will automatically have all information about your children and will update automatically when ordinances are done. This information will be available to leaders of your ward and the children will show up on roles. They can also be given callings in your ward if your bishop and the other bishop agree that is appropriate.

Unfortunately, there are a few tools which haven't been updated since this ability was added. The main offender is the directory on lds.org. It doesn't currently show out-of-unit records. But I think LDS Tools does (I'm not sure and we don't currently have any such records ourselves so I can't check for certain). But even the directory should be updated eventually when resources are available.

One ward does have to actually hold the records and that bishop is responsible for advancement and ordination interviews as well as temple recommend interviews. But appropriate use of out-of-unit records should allow both wards to better minister to the children.

eblood66 wrote:I think LDS Tools does

LDS Tools does well in maintaining out-of-unit records. Hopefully, LDS.org will catch up as changes are made there at the main website.

So it looks this discussion has not evolved further since 2009. I am the father, and do not have custody, but yet have no access to sign up for FSY or other youth events as his mother disconnected from such involvement. Can a duplicate account be made to reduct these efforts I have to make so my child still can participate in these inspired activities?

shoup wrote: Fri Jan 20, 2023 12:25 pm I am the father, and do not have custody, but yet have no access to sign up for FSY or other youth events as his mother disconnected from such involvement.

I'd suggest contacting EFY using the contact information on their FAQ page. It's disappointing that the mother has disconnected, but as the non-custodial parent I'm not sure if you are in a position to give the needed parental permission. That's something that probably needs to be asked of EFY. Once that is settled, then I'm sure the mechanics of "how" can be worked out.

This is easily solved.

List the ward where the children primarily attend, as their "home" ward even if they live during the week with the other parent.

List the second ward as the "out of ward" member. You may need that help of the other membership clerk in the 2nd ward.
Occasionally the children might attend with the other parent in the "out of ward" location. The 2nd parent has their membership in their residence home ward. The out of ward membership clerk is contacted to show those children as "out of ward" members.

This works well for members in my situation.

In theory the "divorced" spouse could be placed in the "out of ward" status also - if it was helpful for leaders in the "other" ward to reach that parent during the week for activity purposes.

It also works well for members in which spouses live apart in other states, or possibly countries, where spouses visit on weekends.

It gives the leadership of both wards access to the member information. Temple recommends info resides with the primary record in the Home Ward, and is issued in that stake.

Those who are in "both" wards have access to membership information in both wards and both stakes at the same time.

I asked a person who was in both wards to verify this! IT WORKS VERY WELL!

I'd also add that for "complicated" situations (which many times is the case), having both Bishops be in communication with each other is an important aspect. This can be challenging as there are a lot of contributing factors, and many times Bishops don't talk to each other about these cases. But when there is a shared responsibility for children between wards, having the Bishops in-sync will help the corresponding youth leaders also be in-sync, regarding things like the Children & Youth Program, callings/assignments, talks, and other church involvement like EFY conferences. A parent may have to push for this to occur, but since the parent is best situated to know how the Church can support their family situation, I strongly encourage the parent to talk with their own Bishop and see if he can be a liaison with the other ward's Bishop. Definitely won't resolve everything, but something that may help offload a portion of this burden from a parent struggling to do it all themselves.

BrianEdwards wrote: Mon Jan 30, 2023 9:50 am But when there is a shared responsibility for children between wards, having the Bishops in-sync will help the corresponding youth leaders also be in-sync, regarding things like the Children & Youth Program, callings/assignments, talks, and other church involvement like EFY conferences.

The bishop who has the records would be the primary for things like ordinations, EFY, or temple recommends. The out-of-unit bishop would be limited to ward participation (callings, talks, etc.) But yes, the two need to talk.