Baptism and Confirmation Record

I wonder if the missionaries in my area are using an obsolete Baptism and Confirmation Record? The form they showed me asks for the names of the persons performing those ordinances, but it does not ask for the MRN or birthdates of those persons. Since missionaries are often asked to perform these ordinances for converts, it is not possible to properly identify the missionaries on the form. None of the membership records recently created by the mission office include the names of those who performed the baptism and confirmation. Since we have had a rapid-fire turnover of missionaries in my ward over the past few transfers, I can no longer record the full identities of the missionaries who performed these ordinances.

Perhaps I need to call the mission office and discuss this with the office staff?

I don't think there is a new Baptism and Confirmation Record. The one that prints from MLS doesn't have that information either.

Unless something changed when some baptisms started to be recorded in LCR, the information about who performed a baptism isn't retained once a record has moved to another unit. So I don't think it's possible for a record coming from the mission office to include who performed the baptism and confirmation. Looking at our records, our most recent convert baptism doesn't have that information. So I don't think the mission can do much about that.

And there isn't much point of adding it since it will just get lost again when the record moves.

However, if you need to print a baptism certificate it can be more of a problem since LCR requires a birthdate or MRN to include the name on the certificate. You can print the certificate in LCR without that information. It adjusts the wording on the certificate appropriately. Or you can print the certificate in MLS which lets you print it with just a name.

And I suppose you could ask the mission office to tell missionaries to include the birth date by the name when filling out the form.

drepouille wrote:Perhaps I need to call the mission office and discuss this with the office staff?

I would strongly suggest you do so, especially since they initiate the creation of a convert's membership record via Convert Data Entry (CDE).

The mission office tells me that Convert Data Entry (CDE) does not ask for the names, MRNs, or birthdates of the persons performing the baptism and confirmation.

That is really unfortunate. I am still in contact with the two missionaries who knocked on my door in 1977!

drepouille wrote:The mission office tells me that Convert Data Entry (CDE) does not ask for the names, MRNs, or birthdates of the persons performing the baptism and confirmation.

As far as I'm aware, the church doesn't record the "by who" for ordinances other than priesthood ordinations. It hasn't always been that way, but it came about in the "great simplification" sometime in the 80s/early 90s. That was the same time the mag-strip temple recommends went away. With the church no longer recording who was the proxy, the need for the mag strip system disappeared.

MLS has those blanks, so you can print the certificate. (I don't know why it's still on the certificate.) I'm not sure why LCR would require a MRN or Bithdate, unless it's not really required and just there to make it easier to pull up the correct name.

russellhltn wrote: As far as I'm aware, the church doesn't record the "by who" for ordinances other than priesthood ordinations.

It is recorded now for baptisms and confirmations (I only tested it via LCR non-production).

jonesrk wrote:It is recorded now for baptisms and confirmations (I only tested it via LCR non-production).

MLS would record it - but it wasn't recorded in the backend, so it was lost when the record was transferred to a new unit. So are you saying the church has gone back to holding it in the member's record?

russellhltn wrote:

jonesrk wrote:It is recorded now for baptisms and confirmations (I only tested it via LCR non-production).

MLS would record it - but it wasn't recorded in the backend, so it was lost when the record was transferred to a new unit. So are you saying the church has gone back to holding it in the member's record?

Yes

jonesrk wrote:

russellhltn wrote:

jonesrk wrote:It is recorded now for baptisms and confirmations (I only tested it via LCR non-production).

MLS would record it - but it wasn't recorded in the backend, so it was lost when the record was transferred to a new unit. So are you saying the church has gone back to holding it in the member's record?

Yes

But I'm pretty sure CDE and MLS still don't transfer that information so any baptisms recorded there (which include any baptism which requires a new record) won't have that information (unless it's added in LCR afterwards).

Now that I know all this, I will pay particular attention to convert baptisms and new convert membership records in the future.

eblood66 wrote:

jonesrk wrote:

russellhltn wrote: MLS would record it - but it wasn't recorded in the backend, so it was lost when the record was transferred to a new unit. So are you saying the church has gone back to holding it in the member's record?

Yes

But I'm pretty sure CDE and MLS still don't transfer that information so any baptisms recorded there (which include any baptism which requires a new record) won't have that information (unless it's added in LCR afterwards).

That appears to be correct for CDE. I checked a few recent convert baptisms and one did have the Elders' (I'm guessing) names and no mrns, but even there the rest of the family didn't even have that.

drepouille wrote:Now that I know all this, I will pay particular attention to convert baptisms and new convert membership records in the future.

There's another reason to carefully look at new covert records - in the case of convert families, the mission will create the records for the members but apparently doesn't create "child of record" for family members under the age of 8.

jonesrk wrote:

russellhltn wrote:

jonesrk wrote:It is recorded now for baptisms and confirmations (I only tested it via LCR non-production).

MLS would record it - but it wasn't recorded in the backend, so it was lost when the record was transferred to a new unit. So are you saying the church has gone back to holding it in the member's record?

Yes

Curious. As I understand it, it was originally eliminated because there was no "business requirement" for it. (Never referenced in any business rules.) The vestiges were only to fill out the certificates. (Why the certificates were never changed to drop that information, I have no idea. Perhaps as a means of detecting falsified documents?)

russellhltn wrote:Curious. As I understand it, it was originally eliminated because there was no "business requirement" for it. (Never referenced in any business rules.) The vestiges were only to fill out the certificates. (Why the certificates were never changed to drop that information, I have no idea. Perhaps as a means of detecting falsified documents?)

It used to store that information locally in MLS. But with LCR there is no 'local' storage anymore so it would have to be stored at CHQ. Probably easiest just to retain it in the membership record.

So unless they did remove the names from the certificate it makes sense that they are storing who performed the ordinances again.

As for why the certificate still has the names, it may just be to satisfy people's desire to have their own official record and that's something people like to remember even if it isn't necessary for church purposes.

russellhltn wrote:

jonesrk wrote:

russellhltn wrote:[quote ="jonesrk"][quote ="russellhltn"][quote ="drepouille"]The mission office tells me that Convert Data Entry (CDE) does not ask for the names, MRNs, or birthdates of the persons performing the baptism and confirmation.[/ quote]

As far as I'm aware, the church doesn't record the "by who" for ordinances other than priesthood ordinations.[/ quote]

It is recorded now for baptisms and confirmations (I only tested it via LCR non-production).[/ quote]

MLS would record it - but it wasn't recorded in the backend, so it was lost when the record was transferred to a new unit. So are you saying the church has gone back to holding it in the member's record?

Yes

Curious. As I understand it, it was originally eliminated because there was no "business requirement" for it. (Never referenced in any business rules.) The vestiges were only to fill out the certificates. (Why the certificates were never changed to drop that information, I have no idea. Perhaps as a means of detecting falsified documents?)

That's a good thought – keeping a record of who it was could be used as a check for falsified certificates if the need arose.

When I go to print the Baptism and Confirmation record for the certificate it is printing in Spanish and we are an English speaking Branch. How do I correct this? Other reports are in English.

saguaro1 wrote:When I go to print the Baptism and Confirmation record for the certificate it is printing in Spanish and we are an English speaking Branch. How do I correct this? Other reports are in English.

We had the same problem last week, but it was printing in Portuguese. But the problem has rectified itself this week. I would suggest trying again.

eblood66 wrote:

jonesrk wrote:

russellhltn wrote: MLS would record it - but it wasn't recorded in the backend, so it was lost when the record was transferred to a new unit. So are you saying the church has gone back to holding it in the member's record?

Yes

But I'm pretty sure CDE and MLS still don't transfer that information so any baptisms recorded there (which include any baptism which requires a new record) won't have that information (unless it's added in LCR afterwards).

And without CDE and LCR talking wards cannot print baptism certificates with the person who did the baptism and confirmation if that person was a full-time missionary. Or at least it is difficult. They need MRN or DOB to enter that into LCR and print the certificate.

saguaro1 wrote:When I go to print the Baptism and Confirmation record for the certificate it is printing in Spanish and we are an English speaking Branch. How do I correct this? Other reports are in English.

Welcome to the forum!

Q: Are you printing the certificate from lds.org (website) or from MLS (program on clerk computer)?

First, make sure you have selected the correct language:

To change the language on lds.org:

1. click the world icon in the top right

   change-language-lds-org-1.png

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2. click the current language,

   change-language-lds-org-2.png

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3. click on the desired language

   change-language-lds-org-3.png

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To change the language in MLS:

1. Log out of MLS

   change-language-mls-1.png

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2. On the login screen, click the current language in the bottom right

   change-language-mls-2.png

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3. Select the desired language

   

   change-language-mls-3.png (48.28 KiB) Viewed 3865 times

Does this answer your question?

If this doesn't resolve it, I recommend you contact your Stake Clerk.

Bro. Carroll

Who baptized me in Prnce George VA in 1960? Edward Tillack

tillackv wrote: Wed Jul 16, 2025 10:14 am Who baptized me in Prnce George VA in 1960? Edward Tillack

No one here can answer that. It might be part if your membership record, but they stopped recording that some time in the 80's.

At some point they have started recording the names of those who perform ordinances again and are doing so now. The original poster should contact his Ward Clerk with his question.

garystroble wrote: Wed Jul 16, 2025 12:59 pm At some point they have started recording the names of those who perform ordinances again and are doing so now.

LCR may hold onto that, but I'd be surprised if the "by whom" for baptism was recorded in the membership record. Outside of printing certificates, it's not used anywhere.

I should have clarified, meant in LCR. Either way, the ward clerk has access to the information for anyone who inquires, if it was being recorded in MLS/LCR at the time.