Temple Recommend - digital device scanning at temple?

I was curious if LDS Tools or something like Apple Wallet functionality might soon be available for temple recommends.

I no longer carry a wallet as my iPhone case can carry my drivers license and a couple needed bank cards. All other Allstate, Costco and similar cards are stored in my Apple Wallet or in an app like Stocard.

This would especially help when I travel on business and have time to visit a local temple.

Any ideas on such digital device functionality or scanning at temples?

We typically don't hear about things in development until they are deployed or at least in beta testing. I've not heard of anything like that.

It would require you to have your phone on when you go up to the recommend desk, and the hallways inside the temple could be blocked with people turning off their phones. But I'd like to see something like this in the future.

I think my main concern would be that in the case of a screen display, it would be too easy to forge.

So it would probably have to be something more like the credit card with some kind of interaction between the phone and the temple system. That would be quite a bit of development for something of minimal church benefit.

russellhltn wrote:I think my main concern would be that in the case of a screen display, it would be too easy to forge.

I would imagine if such a system were to exist that the display would include a code that could be read at the temple and checked by Church computers, just as the bar code on a recommend is checked today. I would wonder if it could be the same simple bar code, or if it would have to be one of those QR Codes (square things) for a scanner at the temple to correctly read it.

lajackson wrote:I would imagine if such a system were to exist that the display would include a code that could be read at the temple and checked by Church computers, just as the bar code on a recommend is checked today. I would wonder if it could be the same simple bar code, or if it would have to be one of those QR Codes (square things) for a scanner at the temple to correctly read it.

Too easy to forge. If nothing else, just grab a screen shot from the app and now anyone can display it. I think that method is largely limited to customer cards or things that can be revoked before consumed (like a boarding pass or concert seats). Keep in mind, with the paper recommend, it's not the barcode that gets you into the temple - it's the entire form. Something you can't easily duplicate with a laser printer.

I'd think any such app would be something more dynamic and secure - like the credit card companies use. But even they have a different risk factor and are willing to take a certain amount of loss if it means more people will use their product.

Note that OP still carries an ID and a few bank cards. So I don't think a temple recommend is that big a burden. Again, I'm not seeing the same kind of effort/benefit to the church for such a thing. It would be cool, but that's not what drives Priesthood decisions. Better security or streamlining the recommend desk process would be better selling points.

lajackson wrote:I would wonder if it could be the same simple bar code, or if it would have to be one of those QR Codes (square things) for a scanner at the temple to correctly read it.

The current scanners are laser scanners, which work great at scanning paper, but will not work at all on scanning images on a screen. A QR code would be scannable from a phone's screen, but that would only be possible if all the scanners in all the temples were replaced. That implies a significant hardware cost in addition to the development costs -- just one more significant hurdle in addition to the excellent points made by RussellHltn.

I think a regular barcode could be read just as well as a QR code, as long as the barcode is good quality (generated electronically or a good scan) and the phone isn't unusually reflective. I've been to airports with my boarding pass on my phone and they're able to scan it fine with the laser scanner by the gate.

The trick to authentication is to have single-use barcodes (or NFC codes) that are generated on a church server and have a time-out limit. Like russellhltn mentioned, it would require some development work.

Here's another question: Would people scan their own recommends, or hand their phone to the other person? Some phones are bulky, attached to keys, etc. or could be easily broken if dropped, so I think scanning your own recommend would make the most sense – but it would be a change in procedure there.

sbradshaw wrote:I think a regular barcode could be read just as well as a QR code, as long as the barcode is good quality (generated electronically or a good scan) and the phone isn't unusually reflective. I've been to airports with my boarding pass on my phone and they're able to scan it fine with the laser scanner by the gate.

I wasn't talking necessarily about all laser scanners -- I was talking about the kind that are used in temples right now. And they don't read images on screens. The scanners used at airports are quite different.

But this is all not particularly relevant. The issues raised by RussellHltn make it highly unlikely that this would be implemented anytime soon, even if the technical hurdles were insignificant.

sbradshaw wrote:The trick to authentication is to have single-use barcodes (or NFC codes) that are generated on a church server and have a time-out limit.

An additional problem - how would you authenticate the app? How would we stop anyone with a publicly downloaded app (like LDS Tools) and a stolen LDS Account from getting into the temple?

russellhltn wrote:

sbradshaw wrote:The trick to authentication is to have single-use barcodes (or NFC codes) that are generated on a church server and have a time-out limit.

An additional problem - how would you authenticate the app? How would we stop anyone with a publicly downloaded app (like LDS Tools) and a stolen LDS Account from getting into the temple?

I don't see that as any different from a stolen paper temple recommend.

sbradshaw wrote:I don't see that as any different from a stolen paper temple recommend.

Just the way it can be stolen.

Generally, it's not just the recommend that's stolen, but the whole wallet. That would probably be discovered pretty soon. But how would the owner discover stolen credentials? I suppose you could do what Google does: a "Login from new device" notification. But that means that function would have to be added to LDS Account.

Bottom line, it takes significant effort. And for that effort to be expended, the powers that be would have to see an issue that needs to be solved. It would be cool, but I'm not seeing an issue.

My understanding is that a member only needs their 10 digit temple recommend number to enter the temple.

I know someone whose recommend was so faded that he just kept his number on a slip of paper in his wallet. The temple worker would enter his number at the front desk and let him in.

While I currently keep my recommend in my temple bag, it would certainly benefit us business travelers who could keep our "recommend" digitally.

I may test this recommend number process my next couple visits - since I don't have to memorize my wife's number any more on my iPhone, I could now memorize my temple recommend number instead.

rklindquist wrote:I know someone whose recommend was so faded that he just kept his number on a slip of paper in his wallet. The temple worker would enter his number at the front desk and let him in.

I am fairly certain that the member had to show his actual faded recommend, as well.

Our temple might let a member in once and ask them to contact their bishop for a new recommend as soon as they are able. Sometimes they treat it as a forgotten recommend and contact the bishop.

The current paper temple recommend has zero security measures and talk about being easy to forge or use. It will take a major tragedy in a temple for the LDS church to wake up to temple security. I would suggest a current recommend be on a mobile device/smartphone with and thumbprint verification with a scannable barcode that brings up a picture of the member. I currently authenticate my LDS tools access with my thumbprint.

It would also be so much more convenient as well. It would eliminate numerous calls to Bishops and Stake Presidents. I've worked at a temple recommend desk and calling Bishops by the temple clerks wastes a lot of time verifying patrons that forget their paper recommend. Patrons could also be asked to immediately turn off their phones after proceeding past the recommend desk.

At some point the church will have to get with the times and make the recommend process more secure and convenient.

bradcreer wrote:The current paper temple recommend has zero security measures . . .

And it will not get you into the temple. That's why other security measures are used in conjunction with the actual recommend.

bradcreer wrote:. . . calling Bishops by the temple clerks wastes a lot of time . . .

Which is probably one of the reasons it is no longer done.

Oh, you might be surprised how things have changed.

The phones can be made silent before entering the temple. That should remedy anyone setting their phones after scanning at reception. I don’t turn mine off, I just silence it and leave in my locker.

An important thing to consider is that if an alert is sent; phones silent or not will make the alert noise and disrupt the meeting.

My Android pone has a 'Do Not Disturb' feature. This mode can mute sound, stop vibration, and block visual disturbances. You can pick what you block and what you allow. Alarms, media sound, touch sounds, calendar events, and reminders can all be silenced. Alerts fall under Alarms. This feature is available on Android 9 and up.

I believe what kd7mha is referring to is the Wireless Emergency Alerts (WEA). Typically for weather warnings or Amber Alerts.

It normally overrides typical silence settings. While it may be possible to turn that off, it's too faddily for most to get it right every time.

I'd suggest airplane mode and making sure WiFi is off. It can't alert on what it can't receive.

russellhltn wrote: Mon Mar 25, 2024 7:40 pm I'd suggest airplane mode and making sure WiFi is off. It can't alert on what it can't receive.

This is what I do - very easy to drop it into airplane mode before putting it in the locker when changing my clothes. I see quite a few folks with smart watches on - have wondered if these emergency alerts show up on those devices and if they can be set to silent (I don't own a smart watch but have considered it).

davesudweeks wrote: Mon Mar 25, 2024 8:46 pm I see quite a few folks with smart watches on - have wondered if these emergency alerts show up on those devices and if they can be set to silent (I don't own a smart watch but have considered it).

It probably depends on the watch. Some only talk by Bluetooth to the phone. Others are capable of having their own connection to the cell towers.

I put my phone on airplane mode, rather than just do not disturb. That way the phone does not spend all day trying to find a signal and run down my battery in the process.