Store hymn books upright w/title showing

I've seen a trend the last 10-15 years in the church of hymn books being stored sideways and upside down. While there is a reason not to store them sideways spine up, it promotes binding separation due to gravity. Insisting that books have to be stored on their sides binding down is like saying libraries have had it wrong for hundreds of years. I've had some members get particularly insistent on this.

This might not be the biggest issue but if you were Emma Smith of one of the song authors or composers, wouldn't you appreciate the books title being visible?

While most books are stored on a shelf upright. Seems like that would put some stress on the spine as well.

There are some very old books kept at the national archives and other places that are stored upright. Are hymn books really more sacred and precious than the Book of Mormon collection that is kept on a shelf in the church history museum? The only method that puts undue stress on a binding, beyond what it's designed for, is to store a book on its long edge with the binding up.

I'm having trouble parsing the first post – which way of storing books do you think is best?

I guess it's one of the benefits of a older chapel. The holders were sized for the old hymnbooks. There isn't room enough to store two of the current hymnbooks longways.

Sorry I was not clear. A book has a top edge, a bottom edge, a side edge that is open and a side edge that is bound. A book also has a front face (title) and a back. The best way to store a book for archival purposes, when space permits, is flat on its back. Often Space does not permit and hymn books are typically not stored for archival purposes so it's best to store them sitting on their bottom edge, if on a shelf the binding showing, if in a holder in the chapel, with the front face showing.

When I see books stored on their side, I often wish the currently serving PFR would install little blocks of wood inside the holders so there would be no option but to store them upright, like an older chapel.

wrigjef wrote:. . . it's best to store them sitting on their bottom edge, if on a shelf the binding showing, if in a holder in the chapel, with the front face showing.

When I see books stored on their side, I often wish the currently serving PFR would install little blocks of wood inside the holders so there would be no option but to store them upright, like an older chapel.

We store them on the spine with the front face showing. Our PFR asked us to do it that way, because when we used to store them on the bottom edge (with the front fact showing, of course), and pages ripped out of the back spine when they were dropped into the slot.

We found it easier to train members to put the back spine down rather than not to drop the books into the slots, but you may have better success as part of a reverence program or other training. It just didn't work for us, so we went with the best we could under the circumstances.

I have a difficult time believing that the momentary vertical force of placing a book in a holder would cause enough stress on the binding to separate it. If that's a problem it would seem to be more effective to talk to a parent or primary about respect for the Lords property. Even storing the books binding up where gravity could prompt separation would take several years. It doesn't seem right to hide title information. As an author I'd be very unhappy to hear that my book was being stored with the tittle hidden. I'd imagine the Church music committee or any of the authors and or composers in the Hymn book would feel the same. Wards get budgets , stakes get budgets and there are more than adequate funds for wards to purchase a box of Hymn books every couple of years and rotate them out.

I did know a PFR that would buy extra hymn books and keep adding them to the point that each holder had to hold three books so members had no choice but to store them correctly.

wrigjef wrote:I have a difficult time believing that the momentary vertical force of placing a book in a holder would cause enough stress on the binding to separate it.

In our climate, they last about six to eight months vertically.

wrigjef wrote:If that's a problem it would seem to be more effective to talk to a parent or primary about respect for the Lords property.

As I mentioned, our training was not effective. We are still working on that, though.

wrigjef wrote:As an author I'd be very unhappy to hear that my book was being stored with the tittle hidden.

The racks are shallow enough that the title still shows. And I am confident most everyone knows the title of the only book they have seen in the racks on the pews all their lives as members.

wrigjef wrote:I did know a PFR that would buy extra hymn books and keep adding them to the point that each holder had to hold three books so members had no choice but to store them correctly.

Our racks are not wide enough to store three books "correctly", although I have only lived one place in my life (for about three years) where the hymnbooks were stored "correctly". Everywhere else I have lived they were stored on their spines.

I am a lost soul.

lajackson wrote:We found it easier to train members to put the back spine down rather than not to drop the books into the slots,

What's in the bottom of the holder? We have carpet scraps trimmed to fit. I remember the first meeting we had after something had been done and all the carpet removed from the holders. After the opening hymn it was *thunk* *thunk* *thunk* as all the hymnals were put away. The carpet (re)appeared very shortly after that.

russellhltn wrote:What's in the bottom of the holder?

Carpet. We are in a very dry climate. That exacerbates the problem.

lajackson are you in the US? I've lived in many places on both coasts and a few areas in the Midwest and south, I've never seen a Hymn book last less than a year unless it was consciously abused. If there are such problems with respecting the Lords property, there are bigger issues than this, the PFR for your building certainly has a difficult job with maintained issues. I agree people know what the book is without seeing the title, not the point, respect is. If two books can be stored horizontally in a holder, I'm really surprised three can't be stored vertically in the same holder.

This might be a disagreement not worth having. My major point back on the original post is that this issue seems be cultural and evolving as I've seen it develop more around the church in the last few years. As experienced in wards around the country as I've grown up (I've moved a lot) and in pictures (like the meeting house interiors shown in the media library) this used to not be an issue.

As has come up in earlier posts, respect might be at the root and we might be seeing a de-evelotion of respect as well as the resort to teach and reinforce it.

wrigjef wrote:lajackson are you in the US? . . .
If two books can be stored horizontally in a holder, I'm really surprised three can't be stored vertically in the same holder.

First, I am 100% in agreement with you that the real issue is respect for the meetinghouse. We have some success teaching parents, but have great difficulty in helping parents understand that they are responsible for their children. We are working on it.

I have lived in 10 states, east, west, north, south, and center of the country. In some meetinghouses, book racks are so shallow that hymnbooks would almost fall out of the rack if they were placed vertically. In some meetinghouses, the rack is wide enough for two books on their spine, but is 1/4" too short for three books top up. In both cases, it appears they were trying to save some money when they built the building. But it was not cost effective in the long run. In some places, the racks are deep and the books stand up nicely. It largely depends on when the meetinghouse was built.

The other challenge we have is when we receive cases of books with poorly glued bindings. We do our best to keep them in good shape, but in the dry heat they break down quickly. We have had youth service projects to repair them for longer use, and that, along with youth conference and fireside type instruction, has helped with the respect issue.

The Distribution Center has sent replacements on occasion. It has been a while now since we had this problem, as manufacturing of hymnbooks has improved. LDS Distribution is trying to find the balance between cost and endurance to save our tithing dollars.

Finally, we never put a book in a rack without properly opening it and loosening up the spine. If we don't, the spine will crack at the point of the first hymn that is sung using the book.

The last three FM Groups with which I have been involved have requested that hymnbooks be placed gently in the rack on the spine. Others have said it doesn't matter. So we have put them on the spine in the last three stakes where I have lived.

As you can tell, this is a sore spot with me. Any member of the Church should know the importance of respect and it should be taught regardless of the subject "Honor thy Mother and Father". As far as the books go, as a PFR I'd actually go as far as requesting the FM group replace book holders with proper ones just so books can be stored correctly. I too have been involved in youth activities that have involved books and glue guns but I have also returned faulty books to the distribution center for replacement.

I make my living correcting problems rather than working around then so it is a real pet peeve when I see that going on at church.

wrigjef wrote:As you can tell, this is a sore spot with me. . . .
I'd actually go as far as requesting the FM group replace book holders with proper ones just so books can be stored correctly.

Perhaps the only hymnbooks that are stored truly correctly are the ones in the overflow, where they are placed on their backs on every other chair. Oh, and the ones on the front row, as well. [grin]

I admire someone who has firm convictions and is willing to defend them. It has been fun having this discussion.

The racks for the hymnals are even narrower here.

https://www.lds.org/media-library/images/gadfield-elm-chapel-1169272?lang=eng&_r=1

Our ward places the book in the slot with the spine down because it "lengthens the life of the book" I wish it was placed the other way so we could see the name of the church reminding us of the Saviors name. With the new emphasis on calling the church by its official name I think seeing the name as often as possible would be a good idea. The small sum of money saved by saving the spine of the book is not worth covering the name of our Savior.

Good point. I've been told directly that the book holders are designed to hold three books because so many buildings share with a foreign language unit. The holders are not ment to hold books on their side. How many libraries store books that way? If every ward bought a case of books every two years and rotated, all would be fine

wrigjef wrote:Good point. I've been told directly that the book holders are designed to hold three books because so many buildings share with a foreign language unit.

One of the buildings I met in a few years ago had hymnbook holders on the back and under each pew. The holders on the back of each pew held the English hymnals, and the holders under each pew held the Spanish hymnals.

wrigjef wrote:I've been told directly that the book holders are designed to hold three books ...

That may depend on how old your building (or at least the pews) are. I'm pretty sure the current hymnals are larger then their predecessors. What could hold 3 of the old ones can now only hold 2 of the green ones.

I was in a meetinghouse Sunday where hymnbooks were upright, two to a slot. If you had laid them on their spine you would only have been able to fit one book in a holder.

100% agree! Hymnals should be stored flat or upright; not on their spines. A handful of PM groups have little understanding compared with millions of libraries across multiple centuries. I travel to many wards across the United States and internationally. I have only seen this mystifying trend in Utah. It does not prolong book life. Please educate leaders and member to stop it.

rc4allred wrote: Sun Oct 23, 2022 11:14 am I have only seen this mystifying trend in Utah.

I have also seen it in Ohio, New Jersey, Nevada, Oklahoma, and Texas.

When recommending to store the hymnals on upright with the face out (so people can see the title) has anyone considered:
1) Everyone knows it is our hymnal

2) More importantly, the rack attached to the back of the pew is flush and angled with the pew, not perpendicular to the floor. Storing the hymnal upright, places an uneven base and (per the attached image) causes the hymnal to sit twisted. I would vote for the old way of lying on the back.

Since this original post I had a conversation with church facilities when I visited SL. I was asking about new technology trends but this subject came up. He told me that books should be stored on the bottom short end. I asked about stress and damage his reply was that was the reason that new hymn books can be requested. If units got one case per year and rotated them, everything would always be in good shape. At the time of our discussion facilities would pay for one case per building per year.

I have a question. I saw a few answers on this post talking about opening up new hymn books the right way so they don't split on the first song sung out of it? How do you properly open up a new hymn book?

My plan is to continue following the council received from FM. Upright with title facing out. I know many people, even on this website, don’t agree with that counsel but I will continue to put my hymn book away the correct way, i place them upright with title facing out when I’m assigned to clean the chapel and I encourage others to do so.

I love this discussion (only for the frivolity of it) and because I am staunchly on team spine.

My wife has taken on herself the role of hymn book fixer so she's fixed so many books in the last 15 years with book binding glue that I can't count.

Reading through this forum is the first I saw that FM would be willing to buy a box per year. I never requested that in my 10 years serving in the bishopric of my current ward. I like it and will pursue that now with our current bishopric.

jsorens6 wrote: Tue Aug 20, 2024 12:17 pm...
Reading through this forum is the first I saw that FM would be willing to buy a box per year. I never requested that in my 10 years serving in the bishopric of my current ward. I like it and will pursue that now with our current bishopric.

The current timeline for the release of the new hymnbook is 2026, and my expectation is that all the current hymnals will be rapidly left aside once units get the new hymnals. Personal opinion: I'd pause any purchases of large quantities (or any quantities) of new hymnals, and first try the following. I know we all have hymnals in disrepair, but perhaps you could first reach out to the other units in your stake (or neighboring stakes if geographically close), and get an idea of how many new-and-unused hymnals the different units have in storage. I wouldn't be surprised to find out that there are a few units that have a large box (or boxes) of hymnals in reserve, and if so then it might be reasonable for them to share some of them with you (as it's unlikely they would need to utilize all of them before the new hymnals arrive).

I've been thinking the Church might send out a notice giving guidelines for exactly this scenario, to avoid units purchasing hymnals that then end up being unused and discarded. But again, that's just my two cents, and I agree that having hymnbooks that are in good shape, is important however you manage it.

jsorens6 wrote: Tue Aug 20, 2024 12:17 pm I love this discussion (only for the frivolity of it) and because I am staunchly on team spine.

My wife has taken on herself the role of hymn book fixer so she's fixed so many books in the last 15 years with book binding glue that I can't count.

Reading through this forum is the first I saw that FM would be willing to buy a box per year. I never requested that in my 10 years serving in the bishopric of my current ward. I like it and will pursue that now with our current bishopric.

Agreed. This subject is humorous in its level of importance but we all have pet peeves about the people and traditions part of the church. Mine are music played/sung too slowly and hymn books stored sideways. Neither of these things affect my testimony of the church or sustainability of /members/leaders.

wrigjef wrote: Tue Aug 20, 2024 2:54 pm

jsorens6 wrote: Tue Aug 20, 2024 12:17 pm I love this discussion (only for the frivolity of it) and because I am staunchly on team spine.

My wife has taken on herself the role of hymn book fixer so she's fixed so many books in the last 15 years with book binding glue that I can't count.

Reading through this forum is the first I saw that FM would be willing to buy a box per year. I never requested that in my 10 years serving in the bishopric of my current ward. I like it and will pursue that now with our current bishopric.

Agreed. This subject is humorous in its level of importance but we all have pet peeves about the people and traditions part of the church. Mine are music played/sung too slowly and hymn books stored sideways. Neither of these things affect my testimony of the church or sustainability of /members/leaders.

I love that 8 years later you are still getting replies on this thread! 100% agree on the hymn playing being too slow. I have a friend that will get out the metronome app on his phone during the hymn just to see where we should actually be.