Multiple passwords

I need a password I can share for Family History, that is different from the one I use for LDS.Org. I should not need to expose my LDS clerk privileges to my wife when she is helping me on Family History. Is this possible?

kd7ufs wrote:I need a password I can share for Family History, that is different from the one I use for LDS.Org. I should not need to expose my LDS clerk privileges to my wife when she is helping me on Family History. Is this possible?

That is the purpose of the Helper function in Family History. She signs in with her own LDSAccount, and then is able to help you. You should find information on how to do it at the Family History Forum.

lajackson wrote:That is the purpose of the Helper function in Family History. She signs in with her own LDSAccount, and then is able to help you. You should find information on how to do it at the Family History Forum.

An even better link is the FamilySearch article: Using the Help Others features.

My only problem with the Helper function of FamilySearch is that it is usually good only for the current window. If you click one of the search links to open a search window, or a Source Linker window, the second window usually reverts to the original login credentials.
Then again, when working with deceased persons, which are visible to anyone who has a login, I'm not sure if it really matters whether you use the Helper function or not. We all share a single Family Tree, and we can all create, modify, and delete any deceased person in Family Tree. The only reason to become a Helper is to manage living person records, or to manage temple submissions.

drepouille wrote:The only reason to become a Helper is to manage living person records, or to manage temple submissions.

Well, although it's true that many things can be done without helper mode, you're understating the reasons for that mode by quite a bit.

A helper can also work with the person's memories -- all the photos, stories, and audio -- and many operations on memories can only be done by the owner. Everything done on behalf of the person will have that person's name attached (not the helper's), which affects the history. The helper can also set (or clear) watches on the person's behalf, and can view the relationship of people on the tree to the person. None of those things can be done outside of helper mode.

kd7ufs wrote:I need a password I can share for Family History, that is different from the one I use for LDS.Org. I should not need to expose my LDS clerk privileges to my wife when she is helping me on Family History. Is this possible?

The LDS Account is a single-user account that is used across multiple LDS church-affiliated sites. Because lds.org and familysearch.org both use the LDS Account, they will use the same password. Unless your wife tries to access resources with your account that she shouldn't have access to, everything should be fine. Of course, using the 'helper' function is also a great way to receive help without sharing your LDS Account login.

Thanks to the first question on this thread. However, I believe the issue is not truly resolved.
I have accounts in lds.org, familysearch.org temple portal.org (and maybe more).
I just read this article https://www.pcmag.com/news/stop-using-t ... -no-really
It says to stop using the same password for multiple accounts.
Well, as far as I can see (and I'm not very "tech-y") the Church wants me to use ***one*** password for all 3 of those accounts.
What's a person to do?
Please help.

gsgiauque wrote: Wed Mar 01, 2023 12:01 pm I have accounts in lds.org, familysearch.org temple portal.org (and maybe more).

I believe the familysearch.org account is a separate account. You can change the password on that.

The others, I'm pretty sure use the same account (Church Account), so of course they will be the same login/password. The article doesn't really cover the situation where one account is designed to work on multiple places.

I don't believe I made my question clear.

Let me quote from the answer given to ks7uds on 06 Nov. 2015.
"Because lds.org and familysearch.org both use the LDS Account, they will use the same password. "

****Exactly!**** And therein lies the problem.

The previous sentence (just before the one I just quoted) says: "The LDS Account is a single-user account that is used across multiple LDS church-affiliated sites."

I know that. I really do know that!

But the material I have read concerning using the same password for more than one account says -- **Do ***not do*** that!**

The sentence I quoted above says lds.org and familysearch.org both use the LDS Account. So does templeportal.org.

But my password manager says that they are 3 separate and distinct accounts! They certainly appear to be. But they all use my one and only single password to get into any one of the three.

"So--" someone will say --"change your password manager -- find one that doesn't say that the 3 .org "entities" are not 3 separate accounts."
Nope! I'm not gonna do that, thank you.

But what exactly are lds.org, familysearch.org and templeportal.org if they are not accounts? What are they "called?"

I realize this is a blog. The idea of a blog is for people to help other people. No one who posts on the blog has any authority to make changes in the Church's sites. I've known that for a long time.
But doesn't the following seem strange? Most people who have a Familysearch.org "account" probably also have an lds.org "account." And of those, a certain percentage, maybe small, have a templeportal.org account. It would be a hacker's paradise to find the password of any one of those 3 "accounts" and thereby gain access to additional personal information. This is exactly what the "experts" who advise against using the same password for multiple accounts are warning about . Surely -- some computer engineer working for the Church ought to be concerned about this important security issue. I would hope that one of those who blog frequently on this site might have a way to get the attention of an engineer who would take seriously this security issue.
As I said at the end of my first post, Please help. Pretty pretty please.

BTW, my general location is Utah. I clicked on "Profile" and it asked questions I really can't answer. What is an ICQ? I have no interest in Twitter, Facebook, etc. etc. So I'll just bypass editing Profile.

The article is written for the general population. There's limits to the extent of how they can be applied.

If you're concerned, then I'd suggest turning on Two-factor authentication. Then, even if your password is stolen, hackers can't get in. However, you have to choose carefully which system to go with as the mobile apps don't support all of them.

The church uses what is called Single Sign On (or SSO). This is where a single account (with a single username and password) is used to access multiple web sites or services (like churchofjesuschrist.org, lcr, the temple portal ect.) It is true that SSO introduces some additional security risk because if someone discovers your username and password then they have access to all sites and services it provides access to.

On the other hand, for an entity like the church, having a separate sign on for each site also introduces risk. Each separate implementation of the login procedure adds the possibility of bugs which might allow an attacker to get into the site without credentials or to steal user credentials. By only having a single signon procedure, the church can do more work to ensure that it doesn't have vulnerabilities. Or better yet it uses a 3rd party specialist who is an expert in this area. The company I work for deals with a lot of very sensitive data so we have some of the highest security policies in the industry. But we also use SSO for access to our internal resources for the same reason.

Also, for most church sites, the church needs to link your account with your membership number in order to identify what rights you have (based on the ward and stake you are in and what callings you have). Maintaining this link for multiple accounts would increase church costs and cause users more difficulty. Sometimes security has to be balanced with cost and support problems.

So although that article is correct in general it isn't the last word in security (as russellhltn indicated as well). And as russellhltn also indicated, the usual recommendation to mitigate the increase risk for single sign on is to enable multi-factor authentication.

[EDIT: eblood66 posted a response before I did, and his post addresses things better than I did in my post below]

I believe that it makes sense for every member to have a single username & password linked to their church account. The church then uses this information to identify access to various church-affiliated sites, and link member information for that site to use. Thus the church has a single way of identifying whether I am able to be provided access to member functions at churchofjesuschrist.org, leader functions at lcr.churchofjesuschrist.org, finance functions at lcrffe.churchofjesuschrist.org, temple ordinances at FamilySearch.org, etc. I personally update my church password regularly, but I believe leaders at least are required to modify their passwords after a certain period of time. And from the Church's perspective, it may be prohibitively complicated for them to even consider implementing separate passwords for unique sites, given their recent struggles to provide even more basic capabilities.

I agree with your concerns about data safety. I suppose if FamilySearch.org is storing password information for church members, that would be an additional avenue for hackers. But I would think (guess?) that when logging on to FamilySearch via a church account, it goes directly to the church servers, and no local username/password data is stored outside the Church's systems. But I'm not an IT guy, and those who know better may point out my misconceptions.

Also, note the article is from 2015, so it may not be completely current.

And these articles are more targeted to those who use the same username/password across large portions of their online presence. One should not use the same password for the "Jane's Dress Barn" online store (name made up) that they use for their bank access and their email login. If a password at a shopping site were compromised, one would not want that to open access to their bank account or email (which is often used for password resets). However, having the same login for multiple church pages inside the church domain is low risk (in my opinion). While all earthly systems and software are imperfect, the church takes security seriously. One can easily have different login for FamilySearch than their regular church account login and still have their membership linked to that FamilySearch account in their account settings.

Thank you for these insights, particular that of davesudweeks -- the example of "Jane's Dress Barn" (name made up) vs. bank access and email login -- is useful and "comforting." Case closed.

On e last comment -- even to get into this tech.church account, I had to use my lds.org account. This all just strikes me as "kinda strange." Case now **really** closed.

gsgiauque wrote: Fri Mar 03, 2023 6:38 am Thank you for these insights, particular that of davesudweeks -- the example of "Jane's Dress Barn" (name made up) vs. bank access and email login -- is useful and "comforting." Case closed.

Having a questioning attitude is a very good thing when we seek to understand.

gsgiauque wrote: Wed Mar 01, 2023 8:02 pm The sentence I quoted above says lds.org and familysearch.org both use the LDS Account. So does templeportal.org.

But my password manager says that they are 3 separate and distinct accounts! They certainly appear to be. But they all use my one and only single password to get into any one of the three.

"So--" someone will say --"change your password manager -- find one that doesn't say that the 3 .org "entities" are not 3 separate accounts."
Nope! I'm not gonna do that, thank you.

But what exactly are lds.org, familysearch.org and templeportal.org if they are not accounts? What are they "called?"

Those are all different websites (or web applications). churchofjesuschrist.org, templeportal.org and many others all have a single sign on of your Church Account. It is truly one account so you aren't sharing your password across multiple accounts. Because it is used for many sites, and the password manager can't tell that it is the same account under the covers, the password manager is doing the best it can to warn you to be wise. In this case you only have one account so it is a bit of a misleading warning.

familysearch.org now has multiple options for logging in. One is to create a separate account just for family search, or you can use one of several different OpenId logins, or your Church Account. If you choose to use your Church Account login here it actually uses the main Church account login, so it wouldn't appear to be an additional site with the same password.