Quarterly Report - Members Moved 3/20 & 3/30

As the clerk, my initial instruction to the Ward Council was to review their rolls before 3/31 and to give me the number of those members who attended their respective meetings.

It was brought to my attention by the primary, young women's, young men, and relief society that we had two families that moved out of the ward towards the end of the quarter. They asked if they should be counted. My gut said no but then I gave in and said let's count them. Now I am doubting that and think I should go with my gut feeling. Which is more correct (since the instructions don't specifically cover members who move during the month).

The other thing is I am thinking is to request names of members who attended their meetings and not just the numbers for future reports.

CWatsonJr wrote:It was brought to my attention by the primary, young women's, young men, and relief society that we had two families that moved out of the ward towards the end of the quarter. They asked if they should be counted. My gut said no but then I gave in and said let's count them. Now I am doubting that and think I should go with my gut feeling. Which is more correct (since the instructions don't specifically cover members who move during the month).

The attendance lines on the quarterly report cover all members who are members of the ward as of the last day of the quarter. If you think about it, there has to be clarity as to which ward will report on each member, and each member can only be reported on by one ward. That must be the ward that has its membership records on the last day of the quarter -- there is no other reasonable cutoff date. And the fact is that the base numbers are calculated on that date.

Yes, that means that some members may attend one ward most of March and then move on March 30, but the new ward has the responsibility, not the old ward. The new ward actually has the bigger challenge, since they have to report attendance on new members -- but that's no different from a young man who turns 12 on March 30, and so the ward has to report whether he attended his priesthood meetings in March, even though there were no Sundays in that month when he was 12 years old.

Consider a hypothetical scenario where you have 12 YM and 10 of them attend meetings most of March, but one family moves out on March 30, taking 3 of those active YM with them. You now only have 9 YM, and that will be the "Total number of young men" number on the quarterly report. Are you going to report that 10 of the 9 attended meetings? Of course not. You will report that 7 of the 9 attended, since of the 9 YM whose records you have on March 31, only 7 attended in March.

So the bottom line is that you report attendance (except sacrament meeting attendance, of course, which is based on all persons actually in attendance, regardless of membership) for all members whose records you have as of the last day of the quarter. It's that simple.

CWatsonJr wrote:The other thing is I am thinking is to request names of members who attended their meetings and not just the numbers for future reports.

That is exactly what you should do. In ward council meeting, you should be focused on ministering to individuals. You can't help unnamed "2 YM didn't attend their meetings in March" but you can counsel together about how to help "John Jones and Sam Smith who didn't attend their meetings in March".

CWatsonJr wrote:The other thing is I am thinking is to request names of members who attended their meetings and notjust the numbers for future reports.

Personally I asked for the list of names who did not attend any meeting that month. For us the list was smaller and it was the list we were more concerned about. I was also able to remove names that had callings that prevented them attending that the organization didn't know about or had forgotten about.

aebrown's explanation is sound.

You can view the names of the members associated with each line by clicking on the baseline numbers that were created when CMIS initially populated the quarterly report. For example, line 18 (Young men attending priesthood meetings) shows 51 young men in my ward as of the end of the quarter. If I click on the "51" link, I get a list of the 51 young men who make up that statistic. That is the best place to check to determine whether a member should be counted in a specific category. By design, this is only available for the most recent quarter.

The problem with this thinking is if they move after the last Sunday, which was 3/29, then they aren't counted on anyone's quarterly report as attending.

I understand the principle, it's the technicalities that are hanging me up. The one family that moved on the 22nd comes to church about every 3 months or so. So I can be pretty sure they didn't attend the last week Sunday of the month (but it would only be a guess) and the family that moved on the 30th wouldn't have a chance to meet in their new ward during the quarter, so how are they counted?

If it is cut and dry that the church doesn't care about them being accounted for, then I can handle not counting them but I just don't see the church being that way.

CWatsonJr wrote:I understand the principle, it's the technicalities that are hanging me up. The one family that moved on the 22nd comes to church about every 3 months or so. So I can be pretty sure they didn't attend the last week Sunday of the month (but it would only be a guess) and the family that moved on the 30th wouldn't have a chance to meet in their new ward during the quarter, so how are they counted?

Let's step back and ask "why are they counted?". Is it to "grade" the member? No. To "grade" the ward? No. To serve a higher need for "stats"? No. To determine who the ward may need to focus on? I think so.

Once a member/family moves out of a ward, the old ward is no longer responsible for their spiritual nourishment. It's off the table. There's nothing they can do. Numbers for that family is no longer relevant. (Because we're not grading the ward, nor are we conserned about church-wide stats.) Is it really such a bad thing for the new ward to be concerned about someone who moved in March 30th? One would think it would be covered by the new member move-in report, but it's not necessarily a bad thing they show up as not having ever attended a Sunday meeting.

As for that this does to the over all stats, unless there was a ward boundary re-alignment, it's not significant. I believe a change of a few % amounts to "noise" and not representative of any real change. The real value in the stats is coming up with that list of members who haven't attended any meetings - and perhaps noticing a new name added to that list. That should trigger some action. The numbers reported is more for assurance to the stake and church that the information has been compiled and looked at - as well as spotting any significant trends in the unit. The absolute accuracy of the numbers isn't important.

CWatsonJr wrote:The one family that moved on the 22nd comes to church about every 3 months or so. So I can be pretty sure they didn't attend the last week Sunday of the month (but it would only be a guess) and the family that moved on the 30th wouldn't have a chance to meet in their new ward during the quarter, so how are they counted?

In your case, you don't count the families. Their records are not in your ward at the end of the quarter, so you should not be reporting information for those families.

CWatsonJr wrote:The problem with this thinking is if they move after the last Sunday, which was 3/29, then they aren't counted on anyone's quarterly report as attending.

Their new wards will need to determine how to account for these families on the quarterly report. If I were the clerk in the ward that had received the records, I would attempt to determine if the family had been active in their previous ward. It may be possible to make a reasonable assumption after meeting the family. If all else fails, I could contact the clerk of the previous ward and ask him for information.

Their new wards will need to determine how to account for these families on the quarterly report. If I were the clerk in the ward that had received the records, I would attempt to determine if the family had been active in their previous ward. It may be possible to make a reasonable assumption after meeting the family. If all else fails, I could contact the clerk of the previous ward and ask him for information.

This is the best answer yet. Thank you very much! This I can explain to the Ward Council without having their eyes roll back.

I am a new Ward Clerk. I just submitted my quarterly report. I was surprised to read the explanation that the numbers we report are only for the last month of the quarter. Is this correct? I thought it was the averages for the 3 months of the quarter. Do you know the reason why we only report the last month of the quarter numbers?

Marc Johnson
Ward Clerk
Spring Canyon Ward
Ogden Utah

mljohns2 wrote:I am a new Ward Clerk. I just submitted my quarterly report. I was surprised to read the explanation that the numbers we report are only for the last month of the quarter. Is this correct? I thought it was the averages for the 3 months of the quarter. Do you know the reason why we only report the last month of the quarter numbers?

Marc Johnson
Ward Clerk
Spring Canyon Ward
Ogden Utah

It is indeed only the last month of the quarter that is counted and not the average of the quarter, except for Sacrament Meetings, that is averaged over the quarter. Another thing the Ward Council likes to do is count if individuals showed up any time during the quarter. As Ward Clerks we need to be sure the report is correct before it is submitted. You still have time to correct it if you need to.

mljohns2 wrote:I was surprised to read the explanation that the numbers we report are only for the last month of the quarter. Is this correct?

It depends on the number in question. It's hard to say this without coming across harsh, but I'd suggest reading the instructions carefully. What's desired may not be intuitive and your predecessors might have been doing it wrong.

CWatsonJr wrote:It is indeed only the last month of the quarter that is counted and not the average of the quarter, except for Sacrament Meetings, that is averaged over the quarter.

Sacrament meeting attendance is also only for the last month of the quarter. You don't need to average the whole quarter.
https://www.lds.org/help/support/quarte ... t?lang=eng

CWatsonJr wrote:It is indeed only the last month of the quarter that is counted and not the average of the quarter, except for Sacrament Meetings, that is averaged over the quarter.

Sacrament meeting attendance should also be reported for the last month of the quarter. The help text for that line says "Record the average sacrament meeting attendance for the last month of the quarter. Include in your count all individuals, including nonmembers, who attended sacrament meeting."

Student wards may be using slightly different procedures (either officially or unofficially) since the last month of the quarter frequently falls on a school break. That results in numbers that are not representative of what's happening as well as impacting the budget.

russellhltn wrote:Student wards may be using slightly different procedures (either officially or unofficially) since the last month of the quarter frequently falls on a school break. That results in numbers that are not representative of what's happening as well as impacting the budget.

I am not aware of any different official procedures, and they certainly should not be using any different unofficial procedures.

There have been discussions here in years past about the selection of the third month as the one where statistics are measured. There are pros and cons to any set of months selected, whether first, second, or third months of each quarter. For example, conventional wards have the very same challenges with vacations in June and Christmas travel in December as do Young Single Adult or Student wards or branches.

But the current official guidelines expect that the majority of statistics will be measured during March, June, September, and December.

lajackson wrote:

russellhltn wrote:Student wards may be using slightly different procedures (either officially or unofficially) since the last month of the quarter frequently falls on a school break. That results in numbers that are not representative of what's happening as well as impacting the budget.

I am not aware of any different official procedures, and they certainly should not be using any different unofficial procedures.

That is correct – student wards don't have any other guidelines besides what's written in the handbook and official training resources. It can be frustrating at first, but I see it as a great motivator to keep the clerks on their toes with move-ins and -outs, and the quorums and Relief Societies making special efforts to get home and visiting teaching organized and performed despite the beginning- and end-of-semester difficulties. It keeps us focused.

scgallafent wrote:

CWatsonJr wrote:It is indeed only the last month of the quarter that is counted and not the average of the quarter, except for Sacrament Meetings, that is averaged over the quarter.

Sacrament meeting attendance should also be reported for the last month of the quarter. The help text for that line says "Record the average sacrament meeting attendance for the last month of the quarter. Include in your count all individuals, including nonmembers, who attended sacrament meeting."

Yes, I indeed did not type my answer out correctly. The Sacrament Meeting attendance for the last month of the quarter is averaged, not the attendance for the whole quarter. Thank you for clarifying that for me

I believe the Sacrament Meeting attendance is also only for the last month of the quarter.

mfwhitney wrote:I believe the Sacrament Meeting attendance is also only for the last month of the quarter.

Yes - it is an average of all the Sundays in the last month of the quarter.

lajackson wrote:There have been discussions here in years past about the selection of the third month as the one where statistics are measured. There are pros and cons to any set of months selected, whether first, second, or third months of each quarter. For example, conventional wards have the very same challenges with vacations in June and Christmas travel in December as do Young Single Adult or Student wards or branches.

But the current official guidelines expect that the majority of statistics will be measured during March, June, September, and December.

Wards are impacted by vacations in June and December, but YSA branches and wards are impacted a great deal more than the average. I oversaw several non-YSA wards where the Majority were Dental / Medical student families that made up 50% of active membership - my advice to the SP when he asked - was to show him how the numbers worked out when averaged over the entire year, average over the quarter and average for 'official counting months' (along with their budget financial impact) - After that instructions came out to the Bishops on how to count. Whether he made the decision or if he counseled above him I don't know, but the result seemed extremely fair and accurate.

Post #10:

CWatsonJr wrote:It is indeed only the last month of the quarter that is counted and not the average of the quarter, except for Sacrament Meetings, that is averaged over the quarter. Another thing the Ward Council likes to do is count if individuals showed up any time during the quarter. As Ward Clerks we need to be sure the report is correct before it is submitted. You still have time to correct it if you need to.

I believe even Sacrament meeting count should be as noted in the remarks when one clicks on "Sacrament Meeting Attendance" on the Quarterly Report, which states: "Record the average Sacrament meeting attendance for the last month of the quarter. Include in your count all individuals, including nonmembers, who attended Sacrament meeting." So it appears it's the average of the last month of the quarter rather than the average of the entire quarter. Years ago it use to be the average of the 3 months in the quarter. Not sure of the reason for the change.

calnaluai wrote:I believe even Sacrament meeting count should be as noted in the remarks when one clicks on "Sacrament Meeting Attendance" on the Quarterly Report

That's correct. You quoted post #10, and its misstatement was corrected in posts 12, 13, 17, 18, and 19.

calnaluai wrote:Years ago it use to be the average of the 3 months in the quarter. Not sure of the reason for the change.

My memory as a clerk doesn't extend to any time when the whole quarter was averaged; that must have been many, many years ago. I'm guessing that we average only the last month of each quarter to make everything consistent and simpler.

aebrown wrote:My memory as a clerk doesn't extend to any time when the whole quarter was averaged; that must have been many, many years ago.

It was back when we used to check our email by candlelight, for those of you too young to remember. [grin]

But that was long, long ago. As explained, the current standard is the last month of the quarter.

lajackson wrote:It was back when we used to check our email by candlelight, for those of you too young to remember. [grin]

Back in the days of horse-drawn computers, when the mountains were forming and the lakes were filling up.

aebrown wrote:

calnaluai wrote:Years ago it use to be the average of the 3 months in the quarter. Not sure of the reason for the change.

My memory as a clerk doesn't extend to any time when the whole quarter was averaged; that must have been many, many years ago. I'm guessing that we average only the last month of each quarter to make everything consistent and simpler.

My memory goes back to when the report was monthly. But when the reports were switched to quarterly, I don't know as it ever covered the whole quarter. Although, I would imagine that many units continued to tally sacrament attendance each Sunday since it's easy to do and to keep the habit. Otherwise, it would be easy to forget to count on the last month of the quarter and there's no way of reconstructing an accurate number after the fact.

russellhltn wrote:

aebrown wrote:

calnaluai wrote:Years ago it use to be the average of the 3 months in the quarter. Not sure of the reason for the change.

My memory as a clerk doesn't extend to any time when the whole quarter was averaged; that must have been many, many years ago. I'm guessing that we average only the last month of each quarter to make everything consistent and simpler.

My memory goes back to when the report was monthly. But when the reports were switched to quarterly, I don't know as it ever covered the whole quarter. Although, I would imagine that many units continued to tally sacrament attendance each Sunday since it's easy to do and to keep the habit. Otherwise, it would be easy to forget to count on the last month of the quarter and there's no way of reconstructing an accurate number after the fact.

I have similar recollections of being averaged for the quarter. I believe it was in the days of the NCR triple copy where we used hammer and chisel to submit our report. Be kind to us that may be over 70

I can't find anything definitive, but the change from monthly to quarterly reporting may have been in 1988.

The handbook also states (or used to) that Stake Presidents can ask for this data more often, but the official report is quarterly, Many stakes report the data monthly, but the quarterly report is only submitted through MLS/LCR quarterly.

johnshaw wrote:The handbook also states (or used to) that Stake Presidents can ask for this data more often, but the official report is quarterly, Many stakes report the data monthly, but the quarterly report is only submitted through MLS/LCR quarterly.

https://www.lds.org/help/support/quarterly-report

The Quarterly Report includes information for only the last month of each quarter. However, the stake president or bishop may request this information monthly.

See also:
https://www.lds.org/help/support/bc/cle ... nglish.pdf