New feature allows building schedulers to create events

[Moderator note: this topic was split out from the announcement New Beta 2.7 Ready for Feedback! topic, because it deals with a distinct issue.]

jeffevannelson wrote:Building schedulers may create events associated directly with their assigned building without otherwise needing to be an editor on any regular calendar.

Is this the same as the capability default administrators have for all their public unit calendars?

jeffevannelson wrote:Known Issues are:

• Problems with Building Schedulers Creating Events.

Does this mean that the capability previously mentioned about building schedulers being able to create events does not work yet?

jeffevannelson wrote:Building schedulers may create events associated directly with their assigned building without otherwise needing to be an editor on any regular calendar.

Can you explain this a little more? What calendars would they have access to? Just stake? All units that meet in that building? Or is this like creating a "blocked" restriction?

russellhltn wrote:

jeffevannelson wrote:Building schedulers may create events associated directly with their assigned building without otherwise needing to be an editor on any regular calendar.

Can you explain this a little more? What calendars would they have access to? Just stake? All units that meet in that building? Or is this like creating a "blocked" restriction?

There is now a "building Calendar" so Building Schedulers no longer have to have access to a calendar. If they choose to make a "event or Restriction" they can either add it to that default building calendar or to any calendar they have edit rights to.

So Joe is made a building scheduler. He logs onto calendar and he can then add events and restrictions to the building in which he has access. Those are the only events he can make. They will not show up on any calendar other then the locations calendar for that building.

Ok, so this isn't really a functionally change, it's more like integrating access to the restrictions calendar into the rest of the calendars. The building scheduler can create an "event" by placing a blocked restriction (just like he/she can now). And no one else can edit that calendar except for a building scheduler, the "event" won't synce and the only way others can see that restriction is by viewing the location. (All of that just like now.)

I did notice that you re-iterated some changes made previously (like giving stake leaders access), so I think that's part of the confusion.

russellhltn wrote:Ok, so this isn't really a functionally change, it's more like integrating access to the restrictions calendar into the rest of the calendars. The building scheduler can create an "event" by placing a blocked restriction (just like he/she can now). And no one else can edit that calendar except for a building scheduler, the "event" won't synce and the only way others can see that restriction is by viewing the location. (All of that just like now.)

The feature that allows building schedulers to create events on a building calendar doesn't work right now, so I can't verify the following. But if I understand it correctly, it is indeed functionally different, because it truly is an event. You put "event" in quotations marks, supposing it is still a restriction. But it's really an event, which is quite different. No other building scheduler can create an event on top of it (but if it were a blocked restriction, any building scheduler would be able to create an event on top of it).

However, your other points are sound. The fact that no one can subscribe to that special building calendar means that it can't sync and is not visible except by viewing the location. So it's a fairly minor upgrade in capability.

aebrown wrote:The feature that allows building schedulers to create events on a building calendar doesn't work right now, so I can't verify the following. But if I understand it correctly, it is indeed functionally different, because it truly is an event. You put "event" in quotations marks, supposing it is still a restriction. But it's really an event, which is quite different. No other building scheduler can create an event on top of it (but if it were a blocked restriction, any building scheduler would be able to create an event on top of it).

Not new. It appeared back in May. I believe it correct to continue to call it a restriction as it still appears on the restriction calendar, but blocked restrictions behave more like events. But unlike events, you can sync them, assign editor rights, etc. so I don't think it's right to call it an event.

(I'll also add I don't think "Stake leadership may subscribe to and view calendars of all units within their stakes." is new either.)

russellhltn wrote:Not new.

OK, parts of it might be new. Re-reading the thread I see where there was a "future" that hadn't been implemented in May. I guess it gets implemented now. I had it in my mind that "blocked" already behaved like an event.

well blocked events reserved the building for no one. while a event reserves the building for a specific unit. The main change is events can exist but not on any calendar other then the building(location) calendar.

Also to get building schedulers to reserve they no longer have to be a editor were before they would make blocks of time they now simply make a event choose the building and "reserve it" to a unit.

jeffevannelson wrote:Also to get building schedulers to reserve they no longer have to be a editor were before they would make blocks of time they now simply make a event choose the building and "reserve it" to a unit.

It may be simpler to do, but I'm still not seeing a change in the end results other than blocked reservations are more reliable when used as a event substitute.

Building Schedulers still can't place an event on any unit calendar unless they also have calendar editor rights. Nor can they "reserve it" for a specific activity - all they can do is keep others from scheduling it or restrict it to a specific unit (but not group).

russellhltn wrote:Building Schedulers still can't place an event on any unit calendar unless they also have calendar editor rights. Nor can they "reserve it" for a specific activity - all they can do is keep others from scheduling it or restrict it to a specific unit (but not group).

In the 2.7 Announcement, it is specifically noted that a known issue is "Problems with Building Schedulers Creating Events." I've been working under the assumption that the ability for building schedulers to create events is not working at all at this point, but that it is indeed intended to work before the beta concludes.

It would be good to hear a confirmation as to whether that assumption is correct, or if not, under what conditions a building scheduler can now create events.

aebrown wrote:In the 2.7 Announcement, it is specifically noted that a known issue is "Problems with Building Schedulers Creating Events." I've been working under the assumption that the ability for building schedulers to create events is not working at all at this point, but that it is indeed intended to work before the beta concludes.

It would be good to hear a confirmation as to whether that assumption is correct, or if not, under what conditions a building scheduler can now create events.

Well, given the statement (emphasis added)

So Joe is made a building scheduler. He logs onto calendar and he can then add events and restrictions to the building in which he has access. Those are the only events he can make. They will not show up on any calendar other then the locations calendar for that building.

I'm coming to a different conclusion, but any enlightenment would be appreciated.

russellhltn wrote:Well, given the statement (emphasis added)

So Joe is made a building scheduler. He logs onto calendar and he can then add events and restrictions to the building in which he has access. Those are the only events he can make. They will not show up on any calendar other then the locations calendar for that building.

I'm coming to a different conclusion, but any enlightenment would be appreciated.

I don't see any reason to assume anything other than that when the term "event" is used, it really means an event, particularly when one of the statements refers to "events and restrictions." I don't see how it makes any difference that these events don't show up on any calendar other than the calendar they were put on (in this case, the location calendar) -- that statement is true for all events on all calendars. I'd be shocked if that were NOT the case. It makes no sense at all to me to assume that something that is described over and over again as an event is somehow magically a restriction.

The new feature allowing building admins to create events on an LDS Facility calendar means precisely that. They are events, but we are exposing an actual system-managed building calendar to building admin users and allowing them to create true events on that calendar. These events have nothing to do with restrictions.

See also my post here: https://tech.lds.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=133&t=20064

vlott wrote:The new feature allowing building admins to create events on an LDS Facility calendar means precisely that. They are events, but we are exposing an actual system-managed building calendar to building admin users and allowing them to create true events on that calendar. These events have nothing to do with restrictions.

See also my post here: https://tech.lds.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=133&t=20064

As a "building scheduler" and a Stake Default admin, I cannot find or see how I would enter an event on a "system-managed building calendar" or view any such calendar in the beta calendar. I fully understand Restrictions vs Events, and can't create any restrictions in the beta calendar either. I can certainly enter new events on any of the calendars I am an editor for.

kisaac wrote:As a "building scheduler" and a Stake Default admin, I cannot find or see how I would enter an event on a "system-managed building calendar" or view any such calendar in the beta calendar.

I'm a STS and a Building Scheduler, so I fall into the same category. When I go to create an event, I have a choice of "Event" or "Restriction". If I select "Event" I can only see stake calendars - presumably because I'm a stake default admin. I can't see any of the three wards that meet at the location I have Building Scheduler rights for. Nor do I see any "building" on the list.

If I select "Restriction", I have the usual choices of selecting a unit or "blocked'. There is no way to place anything the interface calls an "event" on a "building calendar" - only a unit calendar. (But anything placed on any calendar connected with a facility will display when that facility is selected.)

My biggest issue right now is an apparent change in terminology that isn't supported by the beta interface. But we know there's outstanding issues in that area, so I'll have to be patent. Maybe the changes will bring the interface in line with the new terminology which currently is found only in this forum.

There is a known issue in the event/restriction dialog right now preventing building admins from creating events or restrictions correctly. I'm not sure what terminology change you're referring to (an event is still and event and a restriction is still a restriction) but when the issue is fixed:

If you're a bldg admin only, you'll be able to create a restriction or event. If you create an event, you will see the building in the calendar dropdown. You won't see any other calendars in the dropdown. Creating a restriction will be straightforward: pick the unit, pick the LDS facility, pick the time.

If you're both a building admin and a calendar editor (either by assignment or by calling), you'll see in the dropdown: 1) the building calendars for which you're a building admin and 2) the regular unit/auxiliary calendars for which you're an editor. The two calendar types will be clearly differentiated in the dropdown.

Sorry we don't have that quite functional yet - we're working on it right now - but we wanted to get the rest of the calendar out there to start getting feedback from the user base at large on the other changes.

vlott wrote:I'm not sure what terminology change you're referring to....

If you're both a building admin and a calendar editor...

I'm not quite sure of the "terminology change" russellhltn is referring too, but I'm not sure if we are Building schedulers, building specialists or building admin's in the beta, but I do hope the beta time is long enough for us all to get this straight!
1

You can assume that the terms "building scheduler", "building specialist", "building admin" or "building x" are equivalent.

vlott wrote:I'm not sure what terminology change you're referring to (an event is still and event and a restriction is still a restriction)

1. What are Building "Schedulers" (as it's called in the calender system) able to schedule without any additional rights?

2. What is the proper term for Restriction, sub-category: blocked?

russellhltn wrote: 1. What are Building "Schedulers" (as it's called in the calender system) able to schedule without any additional rights?

They are not able to "schedule" any events or reserve any LDS Facility for a meeting. They are able to create (a better term than "schedule") Restrictions, including "Blocked - Location Unavailable" (i.e., not assigned to a unit). But your point is valid, "Building scheduler" heretofore was the wrong term. It should have been "Building Admin".

russellhltn wrote: 2. What is the proper term for Restriction, sub-category: blocked?

It's still a restriction and just says that no events can be scheduled at all by any unit in the specified facility at the specified time. I did not understand before that this was the workaround many building admins have been using to "schedule" "events". But I can see how a blocked restriction could be considered to be equivalent to an event with an LDS Facility reserved (the building is unavailable to anyone else to schedule), but that is actually only by coincidence. They still are not the same thing.

I believe that the blocked restriction type was originally intended to close the building off during events such as General Conference, Family Home Evening, etc. But using it as an event scheduler mechanism is more a misuse of the feature and does not communicate to the user what actually is happening. That restriction type should actually probably be removed also to further cut down on confusion.

vlott wrote:The new feature allowing building admins to create events on an LDS Facility calendar means precisely that. They are events, but we are exposing an actual system-managed building calendar to building admin users and allowing them to create true events on that calendar. These events have nothing to do with restrictions.

vlott wrote:If you're a bldg admin only, you'll be able to create a restriction or event. If you create an event, you will see the building in the calendar dropdown. You won't see any other calendars in the dropdown.

I'm confused. I thought these two earlier statements of yours were clear and fit with earlier statements about what building schedulers could do in this new 2.7 version (for example, in the first post of this topic, by Jeff Nelson). It seems quite clear from these statements that building schedulers/admins can indeed create events.

But then you just said the following:

vlott wrote:

russellhltn wrote: 1. What are Building "Schedulers" (as it's called in the calender system) able to schedule without any additional rights?

They are not able to "schedule" any events or reserve any LDS Facility for a meeting. They are able to create (a better term than "schedule") Restrictions, including "Blocked - Location Unavailable" (i.e., not assigned to a unit). But your point is valid, "Building scheduler" heretofore was the wrong term. It should have been "Building Admin".

There, you definitively state that a building scheduler can NOT create an event.

So which is it?

In the last quote, the question I was answering sounded like it was referring to the current production 2.5 system (not beta 2.7), but I think I was mistaken on that. But in the new beta 2.7 version my first two statements you quoted are correct.

So currently in production - not beta - building admins cannot schedule events (although they were using blocked restrictions as a workaround). As soon as the known issue is fixed in beta, they will be able to create events on the Location Calendar for their assigned building.

Sorry for the mixup.

I can schedule restrictions and events on open days. I can schedule a private function on an open day, but I cannot schedule a private event on a day restricted for a ward, even though I am the creator of the restriction. If I have a private function (funeral) on a restricted day, I have to schedule it as a ward activity and not as a private function.

Sorry there is no "layering" or prioritization of anything that blocks time on a church building. If there is a unit restriction or there is a scheduled event, there is a conflict. If you need to schedule a funeral or some other event, you will first need to cancel the occurrence of the restriction that falls at that time before scheduling your event.

It's probably a reasonable future enhancement to allow building admins to schedule events over the top of restrictions IF there are no events already scheduled by the unit in the restriction block. But if there are events scheduled then the conflict must be resolved the normal way by un-scheduling any events that conflict.

kaibua wrote:If I have a private function (funeral) on a restricted day, I have to schedule it as a ward activity and not as a private function.

Or, you could edit the restriction.

vlott wrote:It's probably a reasonable future enhancement to allow building admins to schedule events over the top of restrictions IF there are no events already scheduled by the unit in the restriction block.

That's the way it used to work. I'm not so sure it will come back.

vlott wrote:Sorry there is no "layering" or prioritization of anything that blocks time on a church building. If there is a unit restriction or there is a scheduled event, there is a conflict. If you need to schedule a funeral or some other event, you will first need to cancel the occurrence of the restriction that falls at that time before scheduling your event.

I don't think you're addressing the question that was implicitly asked. Note that the post said "I cannot schedule a private event on a day restricted for a ward, even though I am the creator of the restriction. If I have a private function (funeral) on a restricted day, I have to schedule it as a ward activity and not as a private function."

To my reading, that says that he has rights to create ward events, and the restriction is set for that ward. Otherwise it wouldn't work to "schedule it as a ward activity." So it's not correct to say "If there is a unit restriction ... there is a conflict." If the restriction is set for a ward, and an event is being put on a calendar for that ward, then there is no conflict. And in that case, there is no need "to cancel the occurrence of the restriction that falls at that time before scheduling your event."

I'm wondering if the problem is that the private calendar being used to attempt to reserve the building for the funeral is not a ward calendar. Perhaps it is a private stake calendar. If so, that would fit all the details in the original post, and the system would be working properly. In that case, the solution would be to use a private ward calendar to create an event on top of a restriction for that ward.

aebrown wrote:In that case, the solution would be to use a private ward calendar to create an event on top of a restriction for that ward.

That's certainly one way to do it. But it would be a less than clean solution if the private event was for someone in a different ward. And I can certainly understand someone wanting to put all private events going though him/her on one calendar.

The alternative is to edit the restriction. Which is what one would have to do if another ward wanted to hold an event at that time and had gotten the OK to do so.

russellhltn wrote:

aebrown wrote:In that case, the solution would be to use a private ward calendar to create an event on top of a restriction for that ward.

That's certainly one way to do it. But it would be a less than clean solution if the private event was for someone in a different ward.

Of course. But since he seemed willing to put the funeral on a ward activity calendar, it seemed reasonable to assume that the funeral was for that ward. That may or may not be true.

In any case, I wasn't really trying to say what he should or shouldn't do. I was trying to address the reasons why there might have been some confusion about why he couldn't create a private event on top of the restriction, but he was able to create a public event on top of the restriction. That could really only be the case if the public calendar matched the unit of the restriction, but the private calendar did not.

After reading all of the comments, and after a disastrous year trying to deal with Restrictions, I am somewhat conflicted about this new Building calendar and its functionality. I schedule all of the buildings in our Stake (for any non-Ward or non-Stake activity). I think we are going to not use Restrictions. We have a Stake calendar called Private Events that only 3 or 4 people can edit and view. All funerals, weddings, family events, etc. go on that calendar regardless of the building that is assigned to the event. We also use it for when we need to lock down a building (like for deep cleaning or refinishing a Cultural Hall floor). Wards and Stake events are put on their individual Ward/Stake calendars. With 11 Wards/2 Branches in 3 buildings it is tough but everyone has been told that "If it is not on the calendar, it isn't happening" and something else could get scheduled over it.
I hope I am not misunderstanding something about how the new calendar works.

RBeatse wrote:I schedule all of the buildings in our Stake (for any non-Ward or non-Stake activity). I think we are going to not use Restrictions. We have a Stake calendar called Private Events that only 3 or 4 people can edit and view. All funerals, weddings, family events, etc. go on that calendar regardless of the building that is assigned to the event. We also use it for when we need to lock down a building (like for deep cleaning or refinishing a Cultural Hall floor). Wards and Stake events are put on their individual Ward/Stake calendars. With 11 Wards/2 Branches in 3 buildings it is tough but everyone has been told that "If it is not on the calendar, it isn't happening" and something else could get scheduled over it.
I hope I am not misunderstanding something about how the new calendar works.

That will work just fine.

So a little more info on my issue. I am the building scheduler for 3 wards in one building. I put all the restrictions on the calendar for all 3 wards. If I have an event I try to schedule such as a funeral etc I cannot schedule it over a restriction (ie 3rd Saturday of every month is restricted to the 7th ward) even though I created the restriction. Let's say the funeral is from 10 am to noon. If I remove the restriction then that would "open" the day so anyone could schedule on the 7th wards day because there would no longer be a restriction. Let's use the example of a family event that may be requested 6 months in advance. If the ward that has the restriction approves of the family event for a couple hours in the morning in the RS Room. I would have to remove the ward's restriction on the entire building for the entire day, 6 months in advance for the couple hours for the family event. I guess I could remove the restriction then put another event on reserving the rest of the building for the rest of the day for the ward. My work around is that I can schedule an event on the day of a restriction as long as I do not select a location. Thanks for any suggestions. I am just curious why, if I am the originator of the restriction why I can't I also schedule an event?

kaibua wrote:Let's say the funeral is from 10 am to noon. If I remove the restriction then that would "open" the day so anyone could schedule on the 7th wards day because there would no longer be a restriction.

Note that you've posted in the Beta Calendar section. It's for discussing issues with the beta, not production calendar.

You could create a restriction, or multiple restrictions to block off the rest of the time for that ward.

Note that if you create an event, then no one, not even the ward you're trying to reserve it for can create an event. So that's not a good solution.

And this is why I (and my Stake) gave up trying to use Restrictions. We have awards actually put their events on the calendar. I am sure there are uses for others but tRestrictions have been more headaches than just scheduling events.