Scriptures as a Service (API for LDS Scriptures)

46 postsstarted by carljokl 41,840 viewsoriginal topic

Member
#1
I was wondering if there was interest in providing a service portal to the LDS online scriptures as some kind of web service? This would involve accessing the online scriptures in a machine friendly manner such as in the form of XML. Along with this a form of scripture query language such that you could submit a query like Moroni 10:3 - 5 and have the portal return the content of those verses in a machine parsable format.

I ask this because I am involved in a comunity in Second Life which aims to promote the Church to users of Second Life. As one of the more tech savy members of that comunity I was asked whether it would be possible to do some kind of scripting in Second Life to provide access to the scriptures to make it easier to share the gospel or have gospel discussions there.

This would be just one use of this service but I am sure a machine to machine "Scriptures as a Service" mechanism could help many projects which want to link into the scriptures but without having to store the whole scriptures themselves.
There are no problems, only solutions.
Senior Member
#2
Carl Jokl wrote:I was wondering if there was interest in providing a service portal to the LDS online scriptures as some kind of web service? This would involve accessing the online scriptures in a machine friendly manner such as in the form of XML. Along with this a form of scripture query language such that you could submit a query like Moroni 10:3 - 5 and have the portal return the content of those verses in a machine parsable format.
We asked for this too when we started this project:

http://tech.lds.org/forum/showthread.php?t=113

It's nice to see another request for it. I would like to see more than just the scripture text also (the footnotes and everything).
Carl Jokl wrote:This would be just one use of this service but I am sure a machine to machine "Scriptures as a Service" mechanism could help many projects which want to link into the scriptures but without having to store the whole scriptures themselves.
Also storing it yourself for the purpose of then redistributing it to other people again violates copyrights. Storing it isn't the problem, but to then show it to other people besides yourself through some UI is.
Member
#3

Scripture API

You mention "More than just the text"

Does a scripture API of any kind currently exist?

I was looking at one point to try and just parse the content of the LDS Online Scriptures. If the pages conform to valid xhtml then an XML parser could pull content out of them. This is however not the prefered way of doing things as it would be much preferred if the scriptures could be accessed directly from LDS.org. I don't know whether this would infringe on copywright as in essence the reason for trying to get the content from lds.org in the first place is that then we are only relaying already openly accesible content from the internet. I think a parser for the original pages would work but could break if the Church made any fundamental changes to the page structure. It is also possible to create some kind of mapping of the URL locations within LDS.org online scriptures so that a Scripture Query Language knows where to look to find the content.

I am not really yet in a position to work on this just yet because I am currently using most of my free personal development time completing a library of Java classes used for communication with LSL Scripts in Second Life. Once I have those working well I could try and resurrect that Scripture project.
There are no problems, only solutions.
Senior Member
#4
Carl Jokl wrote:Does a scripture API of any kind currently exist?
No, unfortunately not. It would really be useful to us for the same reasons you have.
Carl Jokl wrote:I was looking at one point to try and just parse the content of the LDS Online Scriptures. If the pages conform to valid xhtml then an XML parser could pull content out of them. This is however not the prefered way of doing things as it would be much preferred if the scriptures could be accessed directly from LDS.org. I don't know whether this would infringe on copywright as in essence the reason for trying to get the content from lds.org in the first place is that then we are only relaying already openly accesible content from the internet. I think a parser for the original pages would work but could break if the Church made any fundamental changes to the page structure. It is also possible to create some kind of mapping of the URL locations within LDS.org online scriptures so that a Scripture Query Language knows where to look to find the content.
Yes, for the project I mentioned that we started, we first created a downloading mechanism. In the Rights and Use Information of the online Scriptures (http://www.lds.org/library/display/0,49 ... -1,00.html), it says you may "view, download, or print" the scripture content for "personal, noncommercial use." So we did just that. We created a desktop application that would help the user in downloading the scripture content for their own personal use within our application. We also did begin work on a parser, but you're right it's a difficult task and one where the content format could possibly change somewhat frequently.

So as for your uses, it may be more difficult to do something similar to what we did. Here are the legal statements that might get ya:
You may not post material from this site on another web site or on a computer network without our permission. You may not transmit or distribute material from this site to other sites.

I know you're not posting to another "site," but it may be interpreted that you are posting the scriptural content "on a computer network without permission."

This is where a Scripture API or web service would really help both of us. And as for me saying "more than just text," that is what I am hoping the web service could deliver (things like footnotes, etc.).
Senior Member
#5
Carl Jokl wrote:You mention "More than just the text"

Does a scripture API of any kind currently exist?
Not currently yet but a project to create one is in the works. Part of the issues, however, are how to control and maintain copyright on the scriptures.

Tom
Member
#6

Permission

The legal note says that the content cannot be distributed without permission not that it cannot be redistributed at all. I would hope to secure permission. I don't think it is unreasonable. It is not being done for proffit.

The Second Life Scripting engine provides other obstacles too because there are lots of tight contraints in terms of memory and how much can be retrieved via HTTP. For example it has been the case that the response body from a http request can be no longer than 2048 characters. Outputting text in a chat in Second Life is constrained to 255 characters. For that reason I have already got some code in place to break down text into smaller fragments which Second Life can handle. LSL is limited too in that it has no built in XML parsing capabilities which means I would need to have server side code standing between Second Life and LDS.org in order to reformat everything into a form a LSL script could cope with.

It is a shame I wasn't around for the first LDS Tech broadcast or I could have asked about "Scriptures as a Service". Maybe I can try to for the next broadcast.
There are no problems, only solutions.
Senior Member
#7
I've noticed that the site scriptures.lds.org, plays nicely with the iPhone (so far). It would be nice to have it be a bit more user-friendly for mobile devices, but I don't have any suggestions at the moment.
Senior Member
#8
jbh001 wrote:I've noticed that the site scriptures.lds.org, plays nicely with the iPhone (so far). It would be nice to have it be a bit more user-friendly for mobile devices, but I don't have any suggestions at the moment.
Yes, the developers did make some minor improvements so that the content is easier to read on a PDA such as the iPhone. More work can and will be done but it is not a high priority as the current priority is to publish in more languages.

Tom
Member
#9
In terms of the scriptures as an API I suppose if a level of abstraction were introduced in a system which has to retrieve the scriptures from lds.org whereby it could parse the existing xhtml content as it currently stands but the details of how the parsing is being done being encapsulated from the rest of the application. This would allow for a parsing solution in the interim. When a machine parsable portal is available it would be a matter of swapping out the parser with a different parser but as far as the rest of the application the encapsulation would insulate the rest of the application from the change. As long as both parsers expose the same interface to the rest of the application and behave in the same way when using them it would just be "old parser drops out and new parser drops in".
There are no problems, only solutions.
Senior Member
#10
Carl Jokl wrote:In terms of the scriptures as an API I suppose if a level of abstraction were introduced in a system which has to retrieve the scriptures from lds.org whereby it could parse the existing xhtml content as it currently stands but the details of how the parsing is being done being encapsulated from the rest of the application. This would allow for a parsing solution in the interim. When a machine parsable portal is available it would be a matter of swapping out the parser with a different parser but as far as the rest of the application the encapsulation would insulate the rest of the application from the change. As long as both parsers expose the same interface to the rest of the application and behave in the same way when using them it would just be "old parser drops out and new parser drops in".
I don't really think a parser is needed at all. Perhaps if we as the Community needed a temporary solution, but the Church doesn't need to write a parser of XHTML. They have the content in databases. They just need to expose it via web service to us. As Tom mentioned, there is a project planned, but it is in the stages of figuring out copyright and other legal issues.
Member
#11

Module

Perhaps I should redefine the software boundery and say rather than a "Parser" the boundery would be perhaps a scripture data retrieval adapter which can be swapped out. I get the impression with the bulk of the emphasis being on getting the online scriptures available in more languages. I know something is being worked on but I think that this could be quite a while away (I could be wrong). In the mean time I think that it still might be worthwhile experimenting with some connectivity to the scriptures even if this invloves some messy parsing. The messy bits can be hidden behind a clean interface. After all retrieving the scriptural content is only one aspect of an application which uses the scriptures. Any classes defined for example could still be reusable in a system which retrieved Scriptures in a completely different way.

Having an interim solution could at least mean something is available to work with until a more ideal solution is available.
There are no problems, only solutions.
Senior Member
#12
But the real issue is not getting a scriptures API available but is how to protect copyright. So if the community where to develop such a tool, it would allow many people to grab the Scriptures without the Church being able to enforce copyright.

Tom
Member
#13
Could this not already be a copyright problem even with the existing system?

Someone can read the scriptures online as intended. They can also print the scriptures. Copy and paste the text for use in a handout or talk. I someone were to copy and paste from the scriptures as they stand and use the text in an unauthorised publication? How would the Church know about it? You could use perhaps JavaScript to monitor copy and paste events maybe but you would have no idea who was copy and pasting for legitimate purposes and who is not? How is the Church able to enforce control on the scriptures even as they stand? They are currently openly available through the internet without requirement for anyone to authenticate with the Church's website to access the scriptures.

I am not trying to criticise but am not clear on how the current system provides copyright protection. All it does is display the copyright information in the lower left corner. Users are not forced to agree to any kind of disclaimer before proceeding to the scriptures. Tools exist today for ripping the content from a website. I don't know that there are any measures in use in the online scriptures to prevent this at least that I am aware of.

I don't see the current scriptures are able to enforce copywright protection.
There are no problems, only solutions.
Senior Member
#14
This is a good question. And a good follow up question would be this:

If the current copyright system is indeed sufficient (in all legal senses), then shouldn't there be a way to add something similar to the proposed Scripture API service as well?
Senior Member
#15
There are a variety of ways to enforce intellectual property rights in an API, none of them foolproof.

One layer is legal. In addition to the general protections of copyright law, the API can carry with it a Terms of Use document in which the user covenants to honor the copyright and preserve all copyright notices embedded in the output.

All the enforcement mechanisms do not have to rely on litigation; they can be technical. If it is the the Church's API, the Church can require registration for the user and issue each user a unique API key that becomes part of each client-server transaction. Then, if the Church discovers abuse, it can simply disable the API key.

That general framework is how the big online services such as Google and Yahoo operate their public APIs.

Of course, there is an underlying problem of discovering abuse, but that problem obtains in almost any situation in which machine-readable data is available.

Addendum: If the API users are members of the Church, I doubt that any litigation would ever be necessary anyway. They likely would respect requests from Salt Lake to desist from violations.
Senior Member
#16
boomerbubba wrote:All the enforcement mechanisms do not have to rely on litigation; they can be technical. If it is the the Church's API, the Church can require registration for the user and issue each user a unique API key that becomes part of each client-server transaction. Then, if the Church discovers abuse, it can simply disable the API key.
Yes, how could I forget? That is how the big guys do it.

In addition, if the Church needed to track the use of the API, during registration they could ask for a domain that will be using the API key. Then when a request using that API key comes in, the domain the request is coming from could be checked against the registered one.
Senior Member
#17
Carl Jokl wrote:Could this not already be a copyright problem even with the existing system?

Someone can read the scriptures online as intended. They can also print the scriptures. Copy and paste the text for use in a handout or talk. I someone were to copy and paste from the scriptures as they stand and use the text in an unauthorised publication? How would the Church know about it? You could use perhaps JavaScript to monitor copy and paste events maybe but you would have no idea who was copy and pasting for legitimate purposes and who is not? How is the Church able to enforce control on the scriptures even as they stand? They are currently openly available through the internet without requirement for anyone to authenticate with the Church's website to access the scriptures.

I am not trying to criticise but am not clear on how the current system provides copyright protection. All it does is display the copyright information in the lower left corner. Users are not forced to agree to any kind of disclaimer before proceeding to the scriptures. Tools exist today for ripping the content from a website. I don't know that there are any measures in use in the online scriptures to prevent this at least that I am aware of.

I don't see the current scriptures are able to enforce copywright protection.
I'm no lawyer but as I understand it, the web pages are like a book. A book that is published could easily be photocopied and re-distributed but that would be in violation of the copyright on the book which prohibits that behavior. Similarly, the online scriptures have copyrights on them and are geared for people to consume individually. If a person copies a portion and uses it in a talk, no problem. If a person screen-scrapes it and creates a derivative work and sells or distributes that work, we have a problem. So with the API comes how do we ensure that those applications consuming the content are properly re-displaying the copyright information from the Church? This is not a hard technical question but more of a "process" question. If we had people doing nothing but figuring this out, it would not take long. But because this issue is just one of many the legal department is working on, it gets a little bit of time every once in a while.

Tom
Senior Member
#18
mkmurray wrote:This is a good question. And a good follow up question would be this:

If the current copyright system is indeed sufficient (in all legal senses), then shouldn't there be a way to add something similar to the proposed Scripture API service as well?
The current system is not insufficient because each page as has a copyright notice at the bottom. The real question is that once you have an API, how do you make sure that those program using the API also display the copyright information to their customers so that the copyright is protected.

Tom
Member
#19
Displaying a copyright notice is possible, even in more obsure scenarios like Second Life. I would think that as part of the requirement to use a Scripture API would be a formal agreement to display the copyright notice and perhaps Also the Church could inspect that this is being done to their satisfaction on any party signed up to use the API. I think the whole idea of securing the service is a good way of doing things. I don't know the Church would feel too bad if they know exactly who is using their service and what for, also reserving the right to inspect that the terms of use are being adhered to.
There are no problems, only solutions.
Community Moderators
#20
Carl Jokl wrote:Displaying a copyright notice is possible, even in more obsure scenarios like Second Life. I would think that as part of the requirement to use a Scripture API would be a formal agreement to display the copyright notice and perhaps Also the Church could inspect that this is being done to their satisfaction on any party signed up to use the API. I think the whole idea of securing the service is a good way of doing things. I don't know the Church would feel too bad if they know exactly who is using their service and what for, also reserving the right to inspect that the terms of use are being adhered to.
I remember a company who did this and to start with loads of people signed up and they used far too much time inspecting sites that didnt even use it until someone came up with the idea of having a test mode returning a notice together with the data passed (could be "1.Nephi 3:7") so once the code was in place and it was nearly up and running first then would the company inspect and enable their full license when they were satisfied everything was fine.
Senior Member
#21
dkjorgi wrote:I remember a company who did this and to start with loads of people signed up and they used far too much time inspecting sites that didnt even use it until someone came up with the idea of having a test mode returning a notice together with the data passed (could be "1.Nephi 3:7") so once the code was in place and it was nearly up and running first then would the company inspect and enable their full license when they were satisfied everything was fine.
That's an interesting idea, worth giving some thought to.
Senior Member
#22
I don't know if this adds anything new, but it's interesting post by Tom Welch:

http://tech.lds.org/forum/showthread.ph ... #post19702

One can only hope this gets worked out.
Senior Member
#23
mkmurray wrote:I don't know if this adds anything new, but it's interesting post by Tom Welch:

http://tech.lds.org/forum/showthread.ph ... #post19702

One can only hope this gets worked out.
This is also an interesting post by Tom Welch:

http://tech.lds.org/forum/showthread.ph ... #post23261

There is a version of the Book of Mormon released under public domain, but that was back in 1925 or so. However, it is a legally ok to use that content in any third-party project.
New Member
#24

Late to the party

Though I'm a year late, I want to add my thumbs up to this idea. I'm the developer of the LDS Linker WordPress plugin (http://www.joeyday.com/to/lds-linker), and I'd love to be able to access the Standard Works via a RESTful API in order to enable full-text tooltips when users hover over the links the plugin generates. This feature is implemented in other WordPress plugins, such as the Holy Scripturizer (http://scripturizer.wordpress.com/), using APIs like the ESV Bible API (http://www.esvapi.org). That API is an excellent example of how an LDS Scriptures API might look, including the rules for using it so as not to violate copyrights. Anyway, my two cents. Cheers!
New Member
#25
tomw wrote:Not currently yet but a project to create one is in the works. Part of the issues, however, are how to control and maintain copyright on the scriptures.

Tom
What ever happened to this?

MikeD
New Member
#26

Scripture API

This link may be of some interest if you looking for an API to access the scriptures.

http://scriptures.nephi.org/
New Member
#27

Community Services List of Services

All,

You can find many of the published services here. It looks like scripture search is in there as well:

https://tech.lds.org/wiki/Community_Ser ... f_Services
New Member
#28
nielsensk wrote:All,

You can find many of the published services here. It looks like scripture search is in there as well:

https://tech.lds.org/wiki/Community_Ser ... f_Services

The links do not work on the wiki page... Anyone have the correct URL to go to to use this API?
New Member
#29
gavinpayne wrote:The links do not work on the wiki page... Anyone have the correct URL to go to to use this API?
After a bit more looking and using Google... I came across this site that seems to be the current implementation:

http://tech.lds.org/wiki/Gospel_Library_Web_Service
New Member
#30
Speaking of other aspects of Scriptures as a Service. It would be extremly valuable I think to have the Journal as a Service.
New Member
#31
http://tech.lds.org/wiki/Gospel_Library_Web_Service looks like it can only be "used by official LDS Church applications". It also looks like the link is down. Does anyone know if there is a solution for a web api that will return scriptures?
Community Administrator
#32
ScottTDavis wrote:Does anyone know if there is a solution for a web api that will return scriptures?
There was a link to one possibility in an earlier post.
Questions that can benefit the larger community should be asked in a public forum, not a private message.
New Member
#33
aebrown wrote:
ScottTDavis wrote:Does anyone know if there is a solution for a web api that will return scriptures?
There was a link to one possibility in an earlier post.
That doesn't look like a good solution. Uses old versions that are public domain and is not provided by the church.
Community Administrator
#34
ScottTDavis wrote:
aebrown wrote:
ScottTDavis wrote:Does anyone know if there is a solution for a web api that will return scriptures?
There was a link to one possibility in an earlier post.
That doesn't look like a good solution. Uses old versions that are public domain and is not provided by the church.
Since the Church doesn't provide a public API to its scripture content (see this post for some additional information), I was just trying to give you an alternative that might be helpful.
Questions that can benefit the larger community should be asked in a public forum, not a private message.
New Member
#35
I appreciate the info. Didn't mean to sound ungrateful.
New Member
#36
I know this is incredibly late to post here, but I am wonder if there would be any way to access NOTES, links, tags, comments on scriptures by username or perhaps by group? Perhaps Scriptures may be copyrighted, but my own notes and tags aren’t, are they?
Community Moderators
#37
robmerrill wrote:I know this is incredibly late to post here, but I am wonder if there would be any way to access NOTES, links, tags, comments on scriptures by username or perhaps by group? Perhaps Scriptures may be copyrighted, but my own notes and tags aren’t, are they?
Technically, you own the copyright of your notes. But setting up a service to access your notes from the LDS.org servers on demand would require LDS Account authentication, which the Church doesn't allow third-party apps or service calls to use, because it could introduce security holes that would allow people to access the information on other people's accounts.
Samuel Bradshaw • If you desire to serve God, you are called to the work.
New Member
#38
Six years later, and I wonder if there’s a way to recommend a feature to LDS Library product managers:

Feature Request:
- Enable a method to share my links, notes, tags, etc with other gospel library users.
- To limit security challenges, this seems best if user-to-user, and only through only approved church applications.
- Perhaps just those members of my family, but why stop there? Many members would be able to share their scriptural insights to each other. Perhaps in a RSS-style format or something the architecture could be built to enable a security-based sharing protocol of notes, tags, links, notebooks, etc.
- Some thought will have to be given to making this too easy to share. Perhaps an intentionally one-to-one sharing model is better than a one-to-many sharing model to help keep so called Celebrities from being pressured to share their notes. Perhaps certain notes can be shared “publicly” like a public calendar feed, but the only way to share ALL your notes would be in a specifically one-to-one sharing method.

Many times over my life, I have heard stories of scriptures being passed down from generation to generation to pass on both the Living words of the Gospel, but also the notes, inspiration and highlights of our ancestors, combined with their interests, passions and journal entries. Surely, this kind of behavior helps ground the current reader in the reality and testimony of their ancestors and could more-fully help assist with the urgent effort I have heard in recent years from church leaders to grow more strong, multi-generational families that have been the backbone of the Church for many years.

To that end, and with current technology, in some future date, I envision the capability for me or my wife to share our notes and scriptural insights together and with our children and their children. Would it not enhance gospel learning to see a small, unique icon highlighting a verse for you to tap on and read a note from your great grandfather telling of how that verse changed their life or brought about a more fervent testimony or even a simply linking of that verse to another verse thereby deepening the scriptural understanding and insight AND strengthening the bonds across time and even the veil.

This has been impressed on my mind in one way or another for more than 10 years. I cannot shake it. The reality is that EACH TIME I make notes in the Gospel Library, I fear that content will eventually be digitally discarded and walled off from MY OWN CHILDREN and their children at some future date when I shuffle off this mortal coil (lol) and no longer need access to my Library in its temporal form.

I said already and I will say it again: I CANNOT SHAKE THE FEELING that we are creating a treasure trove of vast gospel insights that might be an incredible fountain of faith to our children and their children and their children.

Was it not Nephi who, seeing the destruction of his own posterity, endeavored even more fervently to keep the commandment of the Lord to write the words of his soul that perhaps some of his seed might be more diligent in the gospel, and that, in the end, the remnant of his seed (or, perhaps in a major twist of irony, the seed of his brothers,) would Come Unto Christ and be saved?

I dont write this here expecting change to happen soon. But if a PM for the great Church I love is listening or could be forwarded this and just think about it, please consider ways to setup our notes and tags and links today that some kind of future ability to share these notes, tags and links, even upon a member’s death if necessary, could be permitted, even if it was INSIDE the apps and within the security parameters the church needs to maintain.

Consider this a plea to build in some “elevator shafts”* in the current architecture that could be later built out and used, if desired by the leaders of the Church, to enable some careful sharing features of this content, which I think could prove useful to our children’s children’s children someday.

Thank you :)




* I know the elevator shafts in the SLC temple weren’t as revelatory as the urban legends say. Nevertheless, its pretty great that we have elevators in the SLC temple, regardless of the way the shafts got into the designs. Bravo, brother Angell. Bravo.
Senior Member
#39
I know that I've submitted this as a suggestion, and I'm positive that it's been done before. I wish there was a way to truly design these apps for the end user and with the end user in mind, but sadly we don't get much in the way of prioritization.
“A long habit of not thinking a thing wrong, gives it a superficial appearance of being right, and raises at first a formidable outcry in defense of custom.”
― Thomas Paine, Common Sense
Community Administrator
#40
Personally, I think the church is very nervous about mixing the notes of men with scriptures. If a way were found to share notes with strangers, it would only be a matter of time before there would be the "cool kids" notes circulating around from teachers, leaders and whatnot.

I see where this could get out of hand and start substituting for personal reading and pondering the scriptures. It's not hard to read the scriptures and come up with something contrary to what the church teaches. Were it not so, there would be only one sect of Christianity.

The church does take purity of doctrine seriously. Sharing notes is not a bad thing, but doing it in the scriptures app seems like a "mingling" issue to me.
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Community Moderators
#41
I am always intrigued by some of the things my children notice and comment on as they read the scriptures. I do not think I would really be bothered if they could share their notes with me. Last I checked, there were scriptures and there were notes, two separate things in the app, even though they are tied together.

Honestly, I do not use notes or highighting in the app at all. It is a reliability issue with me.
Senior Member
#42
robmerrill wrote:Six years later, and I wonder if there’s a way to recommend a feature to LDS Library product managers:

Feature Request:
- Enable a method to share my links, notes, tags, etc with other gospel library users.
- To limit security challenges, this seems best if user-to-user, and only through only approved church applications.
- Perhaps just those members of my family, but why stop there? Many members would be able to share their scriptural insights to each other. Perhaps in a RSS-style format or something the architecture could be built to enable a security-based sharing protocol of notes, tags, links, notebooks, etc.
- Some thought will have to be given to making this too easy to share. Perhaps an intentionally one-to-one sharing model is better than a one-to-many sharing model to help keep so called Celebrities from being pressured to share their notes. Perhaps certain notes can be shared “publicly” like a public calendar feed, but the only way to share ALL your notes would be in a specifically one-to-one sharing method.

Many times over my life, I have heard stories of scriptures being passed down from generation to generation to pass on both the Living words of the Gospel, but also the notes, inspiration and highlights of our ancestors, combined with their interests, passions and journal entries. Surely, this kind of behavior helps ground the current reader in the reality and testimony of their ancestors and could more-fully help assist with the urgent effort I have heard in recent years from church leaders to grow more strong, multi-generational families that have been the backbone of the Church for many years.

To that end, and with current technology, in some future date, I envision the capability for me or my wife to share our notes and scriptural insights together and with our children and their children. Would it not enhance gospel learning to see a small, unique icon highlighting a verse for you to tap on and read a note from your great grandfather telling of how that verse changed their life or brought about a more fervent testimony or even a simply linking of that verse to another verse thereby deepening the scriptural understanding and insight AND strengthening the bonds across time and even the veil.

This has been impressed on my mind in one way or another for more than 10 years. I cannot shake it. The reality is that EACH TIME I make notes in the Gospel Library, I fear that content will eventually be digitally discarded and walled off from MY OWN CHILDREN and their children at some future date when I shuffle off this mortal coil (lol) and no longer need access to my Library in its temporal form.

I said already and I will say it again: I CANNOT SHAKE THE FEELING that we are creating a treasure trove of vast gospel insights that might be an incredible fountain of faith to our children and their children and their children.

Was it not Nephi who, seeing the destruction of his own posterity, endeavored even more fervently to keep the commandment of the Lord to write the words of his soul that perhaps some of his seed might be more diligent in the gospel, and that, in the end, the remnant of his seed (or, perhaps in a major twist of irony, the seed of his brothers,) would Come Unto Christ and be saved?

I dont write this here expecting change to happen soon. But if a PM for the great Church I love is listening or could be forwarded this and just think about it, please consider ways to setup our notes and tags and links today that some kind of future ability to share these notes, tags and links, even upon a member’s death if necessary, could be permitted, even if it was INSIDE the apps and within the security parameters the church needs to maintain.

Consider this a plea to build in some “elevator shafts”* in the current architecture that could be later built out and used, if desired by the leaders of the Church, to enable some careful sharing features of this content, which I think could prove useful to our children’s children’s children someday.

Thank you :)




* I know the elevator shafts in the SLC temple weren’t as revelatory as the urban legends say. Nevertheless, its pretty great that we have elevators in the SLC temple, regardless of the way the shafts got into the designs. Bravo, brother Angell. Bravo.
I totally hear you on this one, I had my missionary scriptures stolen out of my car in the last couple of months before my mission ended. The amount of time, effort, and inspiration that was lost to generations of my family still tears at my heartstrings. Each time I hold a class on Gospel Library I share this story. There is NO reason why we shouldn't be seeing this as functionality to members.
“A long habit of not thinking a thing wrong, gives it a superficial appearance of being right, and raises at first a formidable outcry in defense of custom.”
― Thomas Paine, Common Sense
New Member
#43
russellhltn wrote: Mon Sep 02, 2019 5:32 pm Personally, I think the church is very nervous about mixing the notes of men with scriptures. If a way were found to share notes with strangers, it would only be a matter of time before there would be the "cool kids" notes circulating around from teachers, leaders and whatnot.

I see where this could get out of hand and start substituting for personal reading and pondering the scriptures. It's not hard to read the scriptures and come up with something contrary to what the church teaches. Were it not so, there would be only one sect of Christianity.

The church does take purity of doctrine seriously. Sharing notes is not a bad thing, but doing it in the scriptures app seems like a "mingling" issue to me.
Never thought of it like that.

How about you can only get notes from your direct family members, then… I can read notes from my kids, perhaps their kids, they can read notes from me and my generations backward.

Or what if sharing was, still by family lines, only shared tags or links. Heck, even seeing a little visual cue that “19 members of your family highlighted this” like the kindle app does would be cool even if I had no clue what they underlined that for.
New Member
#44
robmerrill wrote: Wed Oct 05, 2022 6:00 am
russellhltn wrote: Mon Sep 02, 2019 5:32 pm Personally, I think the church is very nervous about mixing the notes of men with scriptures. If a way were found to share notes with strangers, it would only be a matter of time before there would be the "cool kids" notes circulating around from teachers, leaders and whatnot.

I see where this could get out of hand and start substituting for personal reading and pondering the scriptures. It's not hard to read the scriptures and come up with something contrary to what the church teaches. Were it not so, there would be only one sect of Christianity.

The church does take purity of doctrine seriously. Sharing notes is not a bad thing, but doing it in the scriptures app seems like a "mingling" issue to me.
Never thought of it like that.

How about you can only get notes from your direct family members, then… I can read notes from my kids, perhaps their kids, they can read notes from me and my generations backward.

Or what if sharing was, still by family lines, only shared tags or links. Heck, even seeing a little visual cue that “19 members of your family highlighted this” like the kindle app does would be cool even if I had no clue what they underlined that for.
Even being able to see what someone in my family linked to… a conference talk or scripture or hymn… would be interesting.
Community Moderators
#45
robmerrill wrote: Wed Oct 05, 2022 6:00 am How about you can only get notes from your direct family members, then… I can read notes from my kids, perhaps their kids, they can read notes from me and my generations backward.
There is a process where a spouse, parent, or legal custodian of the estate can request access to a deceased relative’s Gospel Library notes and annotations. See "Can I access notes created by a deceased family member?" in the Gospel Library Help Center:
https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/learn/mobile-applications/gospel-library-faq?lang=eng
Samuel Bradshaw • If you desire to serve God, you are called to the work.
New Member
#46
Thank you for letting me know about this!
sbradshaw wrote: Wed Oct 05, 2022 9:44 am
robmerrill wrote: Wed Oct 05, 2022 6:00 am How about you can only get notes from your direct family members, then… I can read notes from my kids, perhaps their kids, they can read notes from me and my generations backward.
There is a process where a spouse, parent, or legal custodian of the estate can request access to a deceased relative’s Gospel Library notes and annotations. See "Can I access notes created by a deceased family member?" in the Gospel Library Help Center:
https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/learn/mobile-applications/gospel-library-faq?lang=eng