Stickyexport households from ward directory?

Has the export households feature for the ward directory been removed? I do not see it anymore once I log in.

I don't know for sure if that feature is dependent on calling, but I suspect it is. I am able to export households as an assistant ward clerk. Has your calling recently changed?

I'm having the same issue. It seems the recent update has removed this feature. This didn't use to be dependent on a particular calling, and as the Help Documentation shows that this is a feature for all members, I believe this to be a bug.

I believe it must be dependent on calling. Due to a boundary change I was released from my calling as Assistant ward clerk and no longer have the capability in my new ward where I currently have no calling.

I know I used to see it, but now I don't. Clearly something has changed, but I don't know if it was removed entirely or limited to some callings. I've asked for clarification.

russellhltn wrote:I know I used to see it, but now I don't. Clearly something has changed, but I don't know if it was removed entirely or limited to some callings. I've asked for clarification.

It hasn't been removed entirely. As ward clerk I still have that option.

eblood66 wrote:

russellhltn wrote:I know I used to see it, but now I don't. Clearly something has changed, but I don't know if it was removed entirely or limited to some callings. I've asked for clarification.

It hasn't been removed entirely. As ward clerk I still have that option.

Just to be clear, this is from the directory, not the clerk tools, right?

russellhltn wrote:Just to be clear, this is from the directory, not the clerk tools, right?

Yes. The original post was clearly talking about the Directory, and I certainly responded in that context.

russellhltn wrote:

eblood66 wrote:

russellhltn wrote:I know I used to see it, but now I don't. Clearly something has changed, but I don't know if it was removed entirely or limited to some callings. I've asked for clarification.

It hasn't been removed entirely. As ward clerk I still have that option.

Just to be clear, this is from the directory, not the clerk tools, right?

Yes

eblood66 wrote:It hasn't been removed entirely. As ward clerk I still have that option.

As an Assistant Stake Clerk, I also have the export option available, so maybe it is calling specific.

What callings are asking for this. Yes Only bishops and Clerks export but I am wondering what is the calling of the person this came up for?

jeffevannelson wrote:What callings are asking for this. Yes Only bishops and Clerks export but I am wondering what is the calling of the person this came up for?

So far, the people who have asked about this are:

• A Stake Assistant Clerk--Technology Specialist
• A regular member

Was it a recent explicit change that removed the export capability from regular members?

I'm guessing that removing that capability from the STS role was unintentional.

jeffevannelson wrote:What callings are asking for this. Yes Only bishops and Clerks export but I am wondering what is the calling of the person this came up for?

At this point the documentation is at odds with how the system works. I believe it used to be that anyone could export but only leaders had access to hidden information. I'm not sure why regular users had access to it, but I'm sure auxiliary and quorum leaders would want it as they currently have no access to any leadership portal.

why did they remove it!?? I have a bunch of programs written that access the data using the export households function.

Apparently there may have been a policy change --- I'm speculating. I too have a program that used the household data export feature. It has been a very useful feature in dealing with my highly transient ward. My question isn't so much about policy change -- that is the leadership prerogative. My question is one of communication of policy change.

I'm an EQ President and no longer have access to export households. I used it regularly to manage and arrange home teaching. Is there a way for someone to grant export right to my account?

kennymcnett wrote:I'm an EQ President and no longer have access to export households. I used it regularly to manage and arrange home teaching. Is there a way for someone to grant export right to my account?

No, there is no way to grant rights to a account. You get it from the calling you have.

kennymcnett wrote:I'm an EQ President and no longer have access to export households. I used it regularly to manage and arrange home teaching. Is there a way for someone to grant export right to my account?

The tools on lds.org never have been very useful for leadership when their needs include exporting and downloading data. Now even the simple export of directory information -- without many of the extra data fields that leaders frequently need -- is being crippled further. Until the Leader and Clerk Resources tools online include both a robust custom-reporting function as well as export capability for various callings (and in your case, home teaching data) it cannot come close to matching the functionality of MLS for leaders.

In the case you pose, I suggest that you forgo lds.org, and ask your ward clerk to export a HomeTeaching.csv file for you from MLS. (He will need admin permissions in MLS to do this.) This file contains name-address-phone-email for every household in the ward, whether or not they have home teachers assigned, along with the home-teaching companionships and supervisors assigned (if any) in a simple CSV file. You have to get this at church, so it is not as convenient as online access. But if you are like most EQ presidents, I'll bet you only need it routinely once a month.

RossEvans wrote:In the case you pose, I suggest that you forgo lds.org, and ask your ward clerk to export a HomeTeaching.csv file for you from MLS. (He will need admin permissions in MLS to do this.) This file contains name-address-phone-email for every household in the ward, whether or not they have home teachers assigned, along with the home-teaching companionships and supervisors assigned (if any) in a simple CSV file. You have to get this at church, so it is not as convenient as online access. But if you are like most EQ presidents, I'll bet you only need it routinely once a month.

AND, it will contain everyone. The directory export you had would not include those members who had set their privacy level to "Leadership only".

If you go to "Ward Organizations" and click the option "Adults", at the top of the right column that comes up, you will see the option to "email all adults" in the ward. If you click on this it comes up with a list of emails that can be copied and pasted into an email. You can also do this for seperate organizations (ex: all of the Relief Society sisters). This doesn't help if you are needing addresses or phone numbers, but for emailing purposes it works.

When I go to lds.org Tools->Directory I am no longer seeing the Export Households button on the left of the screen. Is this a bug?

I am a leader in a YSA ward where we have a few people move in and out every week. I have been using this feature to keep abreast of what changes are taking place in the ward and I have been loading the location information into my Garmin to help me find houses when I make visits. I loved this export feature since it allowed me to access this information from home, rather than making a trip to the church to get onto MLS and gather this information and allowed me to serve more effectively.

Thanks,

Chris

chrishall wrote:When I go to lds.org Tools->Directory I am no longer seeing the Export Households button on the left of the screen. Is this a bug?

[Moderator note: the above message was merged into an existing thread because it's the same topic.]

Same issue here. I'm a WML.

This is a feature I use regularly get a source for running lookups to get contact info for lists of less actives. Frustrating.

I also miss this option. As the YM president I have used it many times to create maps for fast offering routes and other things. Please bring it back, if not for everyone at least for leaders.

spenwall wrote:I also miss this option. As the YM president I have used it many times to create maps for fast offering routes and other things. Please bring it back, if not for everyone at least for leaders.

Why are you setting up routes? Routes should be set up with the Bishopric, Deacon Quorum president and the Ward Finance Clerk working together.

I am the Relief Society President and I've always used it. Has it been confirmed that it is NOW calling specific?

williamsbt wrote:Has it been confirmed that it is NOW calling specific?

Yes. See post #11.

I found the export feature in Maps. The only difference is the lat/long in the first two columns. You can download either Ward or Stake information.

As a EQ presidency member of a large and highly transient YSA ward, I use the export households function multiple times per month. Can we get this back?

As Relief Society President, I too use this feature at least once a month, now I see it is gone, yet when searching the topic, instructions are still there on how to do this. Unfortunately, they no longer exist. Is there any chance of getting the feature back? I see on one post to go to directory and maps. Where is that located?

nilsonsnest wrote:I see on one post to go to directory and maps. Where is that located?

Sign in to LDS.org, then in the Tools menu at the top, choose Maps. Go to the "View Your Ward" (or "My Ward and Stake") area. Immediately below the drop down lists of units in your stake in the upper left corner, you should see links for Directory and Download. The Download link is what you want.

For each household, you'll see the following information:

• Longitude
• Latitude
• Household (name)
• Street
• City
• State
• Zip
• Phone
• E-mail
• Location Status (e.g., "Verified", "Unmapped", etc.)

Thanks for those directions - this list helps. However, the Email field is coming up blank for most people. Also, this seems to be a list of general household info without Individual contact info. Both the email and the individual contact info are what I need.

Is there any way we can request that the Export function be added back the way it used to be? It is so much quicker to export, filter for the people you need, and import them as contacts vs having to input contacts by hand, esp when lists change often. It sounds like I could request a CSV from someone like the clerk, but again not very convenient, esp when you just need a dozen or so names.

RossEvans wrote:

kennymcnett wrote:I'm an EQ President and no longer have access to export households. I used it regularly to manage and arrange home teaching. Is there a way for someone to grant export right to my account?

The tools on lds.org never have been very useful for leadership when their needs include exporting and downloading data. Now even the simple export of directory information -- without many of the extra data fields that leaders frequently need -- is being crippled further. Until the Leader and Clerk Resources tools online include both a robust custom-reporting function as well as export capability for various callings (and in your case, home teaching data) it cannot come close to matching the functionality of MLS for leaders.

In the case you pose, I suggest that you forgo lds.org, and ask your ward clerk to export a HomeTeaching.csv file for you from MLS. (He will need admin permissions in MLS to do this.) This file contains name-address-phone-email for every household in the ward, whether or not they have home teachers assigned, along with the home-teaching companionships and supervisors assigned (if any) in a simple CSV file. You have to get this at church, so it is not as convenient as online access. But if you are like most EQ presidents, I'll bet you only need it routinely once a month.

I'm also an EQ president and found the export function to be very useful. Please DO NOT presume to know how others may use that function or whether or not you believe it is useful.
Frankly, MLS is very archaic to the point of being useless for what I want to do with directory information. At the very least it should have a page break and sort break by selected criteria and it does not. I wrote programs 30 years ago on mainframes that used that very simple reporting technique. Excel and Word run circles around MLS, as long as I can import the data.
Please restore the export function.

wpyszczek wrote:I'm also an EQ president and found the export function to be very useful. Please DO NOT presume to know how others may use that function or whether or not you believe it is useful.

Frankly, MLS is very archaic to the point of being useless for what I want to do with directory information. At the very least it should have a page break and sort break by selected criteria and it does not. I wrote programs 30 years ago on mainframes that used that very simple reporting technique. Excel and Word run circles around MLS, as long as I can import the data.
Please restore the export function.

Please note that although MLS has its weaknesses, it can certainly export anything you need. So talk to your ward clerk and ask him to give you the appropriate export data that you need for your calling. You can then import that information into Excel and let it run circles around MLS as you sort, filter, and format the data.

I received a response on this subject and was told the export feature has not been taken out. Since it is missing on my computer but not on the ward clerk's, I would agree it is calling specific. However, since I am the building coordinator, I need the list for cleaning schedules. I keep sending help requests and as of yet, not been told it was removed. Perhaps if we all keep sending help requests, they will fix the bug.

Cheb wrote:I received a response on this subject and was told the export feature has not been taken out. Since it is missing on my computer but not on the ward clerk's, I would agree it is calling specific.

Yes, that has been well established by many people who have posted on this topic.

Cheb wrote:However, since I am the building coordinator, I need the list for cleaning schedules.

There is an export feature in the Maps tools, available to all members. This was noted here and detailed here. Is there a reason that export feature is insufficient for your needs as building coordinator?

Cheb wrote:I keep sending help requests and as of yet, not been told it was removed. Perhaps if we all keep sending help requests, they will fix the bug.

I'm not so sure that it is considered to be a bug. I think it's more likely that it was an intentional change.

Our ward had a utility program that used the csv file to create a ward list on one page, front and back side. Now the only option is to use your ward list program, but it bloats the list with so much white space the list is four pages long, even with smallest font, no margins, and max number of columns. Now that stake directories are not available, it was a nice way to have an inexpensive one-page list that could be easily updated every few months. Any chance you could put it back the way it was? Is it really that important to lock down so many things on your web site?

I'm currently serving a mission. With doing that, when I go to the directory section it lets me view information for both my home stake and the stake I'm serving in. But it doesn't have export households. And when I go to the maps to export data, it only has the information for my home stake and doesn't give me the option for the stake I'm serving in. It's very helpful to sort by address since we are limited on our miles.

b321gonzo wrote:I'm currently serving a mission. With doing that, when I go to the directory section it lets me view information for both my home stake and the stake I'm serving in. But it doesn't have export households. And when I go to the maps to export data, it only has the information for my home stake and doesn't give me the option for the stake I'm serving in. It's very helpful to sort by address since we are limited on our miles.

So far, the only the Directory tool has been made available to missionaries for the ward in which they serve. Other tools, such as Maps, don't have this feature. We don't know if or when it will be available. It's quite new that missionaries have access to the ward directory for the ward to which they are assigned.

My calling has not changed, still RS Sec. Used to be able to export ward directory to Excel. Now that is not an option. Help topic still states we should be able to do this. Please fix this bug. I really don't have the time to manually edit list for the RS Pres. each time it is requested.

OK I used this but the directory stops in the "S" and does not download/export the full directory. Additionally, no email address and no names of the children. If I were in Primary - this would not be helpful.

Just as a comment, I've tried to export the data myself as well. Kind of frustrating when the help item says to look in the left pane for the export data function

sjanderson wrote:Kind of frustrating when the help item says to look in the left pane for the export data function

That's a separate problem. The team that was responsible for documentation was let go awhile back, so there are some inaccuracies as things have changed. I have no idea when the documentation issue will be resolved.

I exported a ward directory for my new calling as the facilities rep in December, but the feature was removed for January. What up with that? I manipulate the ward roster to contact people to clean the church. I'm confused (and a little put out).

It seems odd that I can print or save the directory using a PDF file and if I am willing to pay Adobe money I can save it to a excel file. This does not seem to be a rights change maybe a deal made with Adobe

ritastan wrote:It seems odd that I can print or save the directory using a PDF file and if I am willing to pay Adobe money I can save it to a excel file.

The only print options available in the Directory is in the PDF format. I see no option to save or print in any other format. To save or print in another format you must first save the PDF file and then use an application you have installed on your computer to make the conversion.

ritastan wrote:This does not seem to be a rights change maybe a deal made with Adobe

Using the PDF file format to print makes it easier to control the output format of the printed page. The PDF format is a universal document sharing format used on the Internet and the print driver is free from Adobe. An other method would require using the browser print function. The output of a browser print function is more difficult to control. And the number of browsers and browser versions out there adds to the difficulty in maintaining an acceptable print output.

I don't have the option to export either. My calling hasn't changed and I was able to export in November but we have had new families move into our ward so I needed to re-export the directory but I am not able to anymore.

This is a recent change. In December I was able to export my ward directory. Since the start of the new year, the option no longer is available to me. None of my callings changed. Either this is a glitch or the new policy restricts access to certain callings. The print/export directory help file has not been updated. It still claims that general members are allowed to export their home ward directory. As my ward's Emergency Preparedness Specialist, it was useful to export the directory and geocode the membership into geographic sub-units as part of our disaster response plan. Now I'll have to ask the ward clerk for that file periodically to stay current with membership updates.

Okay, so I should have looked further before posting my previous message. Apparently a member can still export a limited directory from the Map area. Under sign in/Tools, choose the Map option. At the top left you'll find an option to download the map data for use in a GPS device. It will export the data to an Excel file. That works for my purposes as Emergency Preparedness Specialist. Maybe it will fill others' needs as well.

k9rfz wrote:This is a recent change. In December I was able to export my ward directory. Since the start of the new year, the option no longer is available to me. None of my callings changed. Either this is a glitch or the new policy restricts access to certain callings. The print/export directory help file has not been updated. It still claims that general members are allowed to export their home ward directory.

Help files are not being updated much, since the documentation team was laid off a year ago. For the Calendar, this post talks about some coming improvements to the documentation, but we've heard no details about the documentation for the Directory. So it's probably not a good idea to rely on documentation as being definitive about how these tools are supposed to work.

I have been asked to post the following statement, approved by a manager at Church headquarters with responsibility for products such as the Directory on LDS.org. I hope this will help clear up some of the questions that have been raised in this discussion.

The Church has to be careful about following privacy laws in many different jurisdictions. Because of this, the Directory on LDS.org has been changed so that only clerks, bishopric members, and stake presidencies can access the Export Households functionality. The issue is that once data is exported, the Church no longer controls the data. The Church then becomes legally liable when it has provided a way for data to be exported. Similar data export changes are also being made in LDS Maps and MLS. When other ward and stake leaders need access to lists of members for their callings, they should contact their ward or stake clerk.

I'd also add that the Meetinghouse Technology Policy that came out this month says "4.8.3 The use of MLS data and membership information in third party software is prohibited."

Third-party software is defined as "3.10 Third Party Software: Any computer software program that was not created by the Church or is not approved for use on Church computers."

You're probably OK with MS Office/OpenOffice, but that doesn't give much leeway for other programs.

russellhltn wrote:I'd also add that the Meetinghouse Technology Policy that came out this month says "4.8.3 The use of MLS data and membership information in third party software is prohibited."

Third-party software is defined as "3.10 Third Party Software: Any computer software program that was not created by the Church or is not approved for use on Church computers."

You're probably OK with MS Office/OpenOffice, but that doesn't give much leeway for other programs.

The scope of that policy is expressly limited to meetinghouse computers:

Scope

2.1 Worldwide: The meetinghouse technology policies defined in this document apply to all meetinghouses worldwide unless otherwise stated.

The policy does not dictate what software leaders may or may not use on their own computers to crunch membership data they might have download from lds.org or exported from MLS. But note that there is a firm prohibition about storing any membership data in the cloud:

4.8.4 The use of cloud-based services for storing and/or backing up MLS or any membership related data is prohibited.

RossEvans wrote:The scope of that policy is expressly limited to meetinghouse computers:

Scope

2.1 Worldwide: The meetinghouse technology policies defined in this document apply to all meetinghouses worldwide unless otherwise stated.

The policy does not dictate what software leaders may or may not use on their own computers to crunch membership data they might have download from lds.org or exported from MLS.

That's a rather narrow reading of that section. Since the data originates on a meetinghouse computer, I would say that it is still within the published scope to specify what may be done with that data. So it seems clear enough to me that the restriction on using MLS data with third-party software includes any such software on any device.

aebrown wrote:

RossEvans wrote:The scope of that policy is expressly limited to meetinghouse computers:

Scope

2.1 Worldwide: The meetinghouse technology policies defined in this document apply to all meetinghouses worldwide unless otherwise stated.

The policy does not dictate what software leaders may or may not use on their own computers to crunch membership data they might have download from lds.org or exported from MLS.

That's a rather narrow reading of that section. Since the data originates on a meetinghouse computer, I would say that it is still within the published scope to specify what may be done with that data. So it seems clear enough to me that the restriction on using MLS data with third-party software includes any such software on any device.

I disagree, obviously. I think the scope means exactly what it says, no more and no less. The the entire document is about "meetinghouse" technology policy, the scope definition says "meetinghouses," and the very definition of "third party software" expressly references software "not approved for use on Church computers." When the policy expands beyond that to regulate use of the cloud, it does so expressly, and if the authors meant to include the scope to include our own computers, they could easily have done so with a few unambiguous words.

I think we should avoid overgeneralizing from the written policy by our own imputation to create unauthorized "policy" that is nothing more than forum folklore. In any case, no one on the forum can settle this question of interpretation because we lack that authority. The policy itself tells us who can interpret it for us:

Meetinghouse Technology Roles and Responsibilities

...
6. Stake President

6.1 Oversees proper use of technology within a stake

6.2 Understands and enforces meetinghouse technology policy

So for my part, I have called my bishop's attention to the new policy, and he can take the matter to the stake president if he needs clarification.

RossEvans wrote:I think we should avoid overgeneralizing from the written policy by our own imputation to create unauthorized "policy" that is nothing more than forum folklore.

I think we should avoid UNDERgeneralizing from the written policy by our own imputation to create unauthorized "policy" that is nothing more than forum folklore.

I certainly wasn't trying to start an argument. I just wanted to let it be known that there is a different reasonable interpretation of the policy than the one you put forth.

RossEvans wrote:In any case, no one on the forum can settle this question of interpretation because we lack that authority.

The policy itself tells us who can interpret it for us...

On that point, I'll agree with you 100%.

aebrown wrote:

RossEvans wrote:In any case, no one on the forum can settle this question of interpretation because we lack that authority.

The policy itself tells us who can interpret it for us...

On that point, I'll agree with you 100%.

The policy also indicates that inquiries may be made to the Meetinghouse Technology Coordination Team (mht@ldschurch.org). Doing so might elicit an edit to clarify the intent.

RossEvans wrote:The scope of that policy is expressly limited to meetinghouse computers:

I understand your angle, but the question is why would they prohibit use of church data on third party apps on church computers, but be perfectly fine with using it on third party apps on member's machines where they have even less control?

Note that they did not limit the restriction to just "MLS data" but included "membership information". So I don't see how any claim that the directory download isn't covered is going to fly.

I"ll note 4.13.2: "Only Church-approved, licensed software is permitted for installation on Church computers." So in the case of church computers, you can't even have any such software installed much less use it on membership data. So either 4.8.3 is just repeated for emphasis or it was intended to have a broader reach. I suspect the latter. But you raise an interesting loophole that probably should be pointed out to TPTB.

russellhltn wrote:

RossEvans wrote:The scope of that policy is expressly limited to meetinghouse computers:

I understand your angle, but the question is why would they prohibit use of church data on third party apps on church computers, but be perfectly fine with using it on third party apps on member's machines where they have even less control?

I think the more pertinent question is why, if the authors meant to regulate software used on our private computers in a document all about Meetinghouse Technology Policy, they did not say so. It is a hugely speculative leap to assume that more expansive meaning.

Further, if there is policy meant to apply so generally to members' and leaders' private computers, a document about "meetinghouse technology" is not where I would expect to find it. Such generally applicable policies are more likely to be communicated in the handbook or a letter to unit priesthood leaders.

And in the case of lds.org directory downloads (now for leaders only), that policy would be expected to be stated in the website terms and conditions or the popup dialog that precedes every such export and states the conditions of the download. I just looked at the dialog from the directory download. And, even though the directory website was recently reprogrammed to implement the new, more restrictive download policy policy and the verbiage was changed to say the data "must only by used by Church officers for official Church purposes," there was no mention whatsoever of what software I am allowed to used to consume the exported file. And BTW, I was nowhere near my "meetinghouse" when I accessed the website.

RossEvans wrote:Further, if there is policy meant to apply so generally to members' and leaders' private computers, a document about "meetinghouse technology" is not where I would expect to find it.

I agree, but it's not like its never happened before. Check out points 11, 12 and 13 on the 2009 Policies and Guidelines for Computers Used by Clerks for Church Record Keeping.

Edit: asking the STS to enforce it wouldn't be so bad - if the policy was posted somewhere more logical. But I think that document is the only place it's found.

russellhltn wrote:

RossEvans wrote:Further, if there is policy meant to apply so generally to members' and leaders' private computers, a document about "meetinghouse technology" is not where I would expect to find it.

I agree, but it's not like its never happened before. Check out points 11, 12 and 13 on the 2009 Policies and Guidelines for Computers Used by Clerks for Church Record Keeping.

Yes, I recall that older document, and I thought it an odd construct -- mostly because it made it the responsibility of the STS to "ensure" behavior on the part of others over whom he had little control.

But more on point, I note that in each of those cases, there was express mention of those personal devices. That is all the more reason to believe that when the authors mean to expand the scope of such a document to include such personal devices, they do so explicitly. In the current policy document, they do not do so. BTW, thanks for the link. I looked for the reference about an hour ago to help buttress my point, but failed to find it.

Again, I find it odd they'd be so cautious on church machines but ignore what people do with data on their home machines. I can't help but feel that it's some kind of oversight. But there's other questions that document raises. I will be interesting to see what the response is.

russellhltn wrote:Again, I find it odd they'd be so cautious on church machines but ignore what people do with data on their home machines. I can't help but feel that it's some kind of oversight. But there's other questions that document raises. I will be interesting to see what the response is.

I don't think the authorities "ignore" that at all. I think they are taking steps to ensure that any downloaded or exported data is available to and placed under the stewardship of local priesthood leaders, who already are under general instructions in Handbook 1, Section 13.8 to protect it by password and keep it confidential on all media. It is just that the church does not micromanage which software we can use on our own computers to work with such data. It is a case of teaching correct principles and expecting leaders to govern themselves.

Yes, the church obviously controls the software installed on its own systems more rigorously, and for reasons that extend beyond privacy protection (licensing, firewall, anti-malware, network security, compatibilty, etc. for meetinghouse systems.) But is is far from feasible for Salt Lake to govern all the possible applications that we might use, quite legitimately, on thousands of varied computers owned by leaders.

As for smartphones, which are particularly vulnerable to loss, by other policy we all are now prohibited from storing membership data on such devices except in church-sanctioned apps such as LDS Tools. (This more restrictive policy obviously supersedes the older policy you cited from the 2009 document, which preceded development of LDS Tools and quaintly referred to "PDAs.")

BTW, with respect to meetinghouse computers themselves, where does one find the current list of approved software? It used to be that there was a short list maintained by CHQ (Open Office/Libre Office, CutePDF, etc.), and stake presidents had the authority to supplement it locally. Is that still the case under the new document?

EDIT: Never mid. Found it.

RossEvans wrote:BTW, with respect to meetinghouse computers themselves, where does one find the current list of approved software?

That's one of the questions we had - as well as how to get software added to that list.

For now, I'd assume that RKTS > Applications > Third-Party Software is our list. The ability of the stake president to autorize anything else came from the 2009 policy I linked to earlier. It's not clear if the new policy (which has no such provision) replaces the 2009 policy. (Yet another question.)

russellhltn wrote: The ability of the stake president to autorize anything else came from the 2009 policy I linked to earlier. It's not clear if the new policy (which has no such provision) replaces the 2009 policy. (Yet another question.)

The way I read it, the new policy has no requirement that the stake president expressly approve any particular software not on the suggested list. He just has the general responsibility to understand and enforce the whole policy, which means that any unlisted software acquisition adheres to the policy guidelines. And the new policy guidelines themselves are quite open-ended and permissive with respect to application software. Far from being focused on privacy protection or even functionality, the guidelines are almost entirely concerned with budget and adminstrative issues: requiring proper licensing, preferring free software, allowing donated software, allowing purchases but discouraging expensive purchases with budget funds.

All of which is concerned entirely with managing meetinghouse software legally and parsimoniously, and having nothing to do with what we install and use on our own personal computers.

(In fact, the whole subject of the new Meetinghouse Technology Policy document is so unrelated to the original topic of this thread -- which was about members downloading directory data from lds.org -- that I suggest it be spun off on its own.)

RossEvans wrote:All of which is concerned entirely with managing meetinghouse software legally and parsimoniously, and having nothing to do with what we install and use on our own personal computers.

I don't think anyone is claiming the policy dictates what we can install or use on our personal computers. The question is only whether MLS and/or membership data may be used in connection with third-party software on personal computers.

RossEvans wrote:(In fact, the whole subject of the new Meetinghouse Technology Policy document is so unrelated to the original topic of this thread -- which was about members downloading directory data from lds.org -- that I suggest it be spun off on its own.)

Whether the policy restricts how we may use downloaded directory data does seem relevant to the discussion.

RossEvans wrote:The way I read it, the new policy has no requirement that the stake president expressly approve any particular software not on the suggested list.

True.

RossEvans wrote:And the new policy guidelines themselves are quite open-ended and permissive with respect to application software. Far from being focused on privacy protection or even functionality, the guidelines are almost entirely concerned with budget and adminstrative issues: requiring proper licensing, preferring free software, allowing donated software, allowing purchases but discouraging expensive purchases with budget funds.

We must not be reading the same document. That would be true of the web page with the Sept 2013 date. But the 2014 policy says "4.13.2 Only Church-approved, licensed software is permitted for installation on Church computers." I'm not sure how you want to define "Church-approved", but I've never seen it to mean anything other than area office or CHQ approved. I think it would be phrased differently if it could be "stake president approved".

Edit: It should be noted that the new policy does not indicate what or where the Church-approved list is. It's pure conjecture on my part to suggest we can find a list at the web page I pointed to. So OpenOffice, LibreOffice, Microsoft Office, Microsoft Works, Chrome, Firefox, Adobe Reader, Adobe Flash Player, CutePDF, Foxit Reader, and Picasa are likely "church-approved" for use on clerk computers. But I would not expect the policy expressed on that page which predates the Meetinghouse Technology Policy to supersede the new policy.

eblood66 wrote:

RossEvans wrote:All of which is concerned entirely with managing meetinghouse software legally and parsimoniously, and having nothing to do with what we install and use on our own personal computers.

I don't think anyone is claiming the policy dictates what we can install or use on our personal computers. The question is only whether MLS and/or membership data may be used in connection with third-party software on personal computers.

Well, I have read nothing in the document that provides any hint that it applies to our personal computers at all. I have only seen speculation on the part of forum commenters that, in their opinion, "meetinghouse" policy should be construed to regulate leaders' use of "third party software" for that purpose on their own computers.

The explicit definition of "third party software" in the document refers to software "not approved for use on Church computers." And when one looks in the document to see what that means, really nothing is "not approved for use on Church computers" unless it violates guidelines requiring proper licensing and discouraging large budget purchases. So even if I accepted the preposterous notion that the defined scope of the document to "meetinghouses" applies to my personal computer -- which I certainly do not -- I find that I would still be in complete compliance with the "meetinghouse technology policy" guidelines because I have no illegal software, and the unit never spent a dime on anything I have installed on my personal computer.

russellhltn wrote:

RossEvans wrote:The way I read it, the new policy has no requirement that the stake president expressly approve any particular software not on the suggested list.

True.

RossEvans wrote:And the new policy guidelines themselves are quite open-ended and permissive with respect to application software. Far from being focused on privacy protection or even functionality, the guidelines are almost entirely concerned with budget and adminstrative issues: requiring proper licensing, preferring free software, allowing donated software, allowing purchases but discouraging expensive purchases with budget funds.

We must not be reading the same document. That would be true of the web page with the Sept 2013 date. But the 2014 policy says "4.13.2 Only Church-approved, licensed software is permitted for installation on Church computers." I'm not sure how you want to define "Church-approved", but I've never seen it to mean anything other than area office or CHQ approved. I think it would be phrased differently if it could be "stake president approved".

Edit: It should be noted that the new policy does not indicate what or where the Church-approved list is. It's pure conjecture on my part to suggest we can find a list at the web page I pointed to. So OpenOffice, LibreOffice, Microsoft Office, Microsoft Works, Chrome, Firefox, Adobe Reader, Adobe Flash Player, CutePDF, Foxit Reader, and Picasa are likely "church-approved" for use on clerk computers. But I would not expect the policy expressed on that page which predates the Meetinghouse Technology Policy to supersede the new policy.

We are reading the same RKATS document, which is the only source I know of that explains what "church approved" means. And that document is not an exclusive list at all, but a suggested list that can be expanded by adherence to open-ended, general guidelines:

When it comes to third-party software, the Church recommends using free software applications like OpenOffice when possible to keep costs down and to reduce the burden of keeping license agreement records. There is no prohibition against purchasing third-party applications or receiving donations of software, as long as the unit adheres to the license agreements and keeps physical copies of the license certificates in the clerk’s office. In the case of donated software, the donor must provide the software license certificate and confirmation that they have either uninstalled the software from or have never installed it on other computers.

When purchasing software, copies of the proof of purchase must be emailed to ITAssetManagement@ldschurch.org. Please include the unit number where the software will be used and the contact information of the individual who purchased it.

The software products listed below are optional, but have been used by many clerks. These products are free and do not require licenses. Other software products may be used as long as the guidelines above are followed.

RossEvans wrote:I have only seen speculation on the part of forum commenters that, in their opinion, "meetinghouse" policy should be construed to regulate leaders' use of "third party software" for that purpose on their own computers.

No, I'm not suggesting that it limits in any way what software you can use on your computer. I'm saying it limits what software can be used to handle the church's data.

We've discussed elsewhere the difference in security risk between programs that are generic data handlers (like Excel) compared to non-church sponsored programs that "understand" the data. Usually in the context of third-party servers.

russellhltn wrote:

RossEvans wrote:I have only seen speculation on the part of forum commenters that, in their opinion, "meetinghouse" policy should be construed to regulate leaders' use of "third party software" for that purpose on their own computers.

No, I'm not suggesting that it limits in any way what software you can use on your computer. I'm saying it limits what software can be used to handle the church's data.

We've discussed elsewhere the difference in security risk between programs that are generic data handlers (like Excel) compared to non-church sponsored programs that "understand" the data. Usually in the context of third-party servers.

There you go again with speculation, what commenters here think a policy or good practice ought to be. More forum folklore. I am concerned with what the new Meetinghouse Technology Policy actually says, and I see absolutely nothing that applies to leaders' own personal computers. The deeper we analyze the current documents, all we find with respect to "third party software" is policy regarding church computers in meetinghouses.

The fact remains that the Meetinghouse Technology Policy that came out this month says "4.8.3 The use of MLS data and membership information in third party software is prohibited."

We can disagree on if this is binding on only church machines or not. Hopefully, in due time we'll get a clarification.

aebrown wrote:I have been asked to post the following statement, approved by a manager at Church headquarters with responsibility for products such as the Directory on LDS.org. I hope this will help clear up some of the questions that have been raised in this discussion.

The Church has to be careful about following privacy laws in many different jurisdictions. Because of this, the Directory on LDS.org has been changed so that only clerks, bishopric members, and stake presidencies can access the Export Households functionality. The issue is that once data is exported, the Church no longer controls the data. The Church then becomes legally liable when it has provided a way for data to be exported. Similar data export changes are also being made in LDS Maps and MLS. When other ward and stake leaders need access to lists of members for their callings, they should contact their ward or stake clerk.

So, they're just trying to make it harder to get an exported list, if you can still get it from a clerk. It's really not solving any problems, and will just make things more difficult for members (and clerks, who will be getting more requests for exported data).

Online help on this (https://ue.ldschurch.org/ldsapphelp/dir ... orting.htm) still says "1.In the left sidebar, click Export Households." - but that option is no longer there - can someone please restore it? Thanks...

jwolley wrote:Online help on this (https://ue.ldschurch.org/ldsapphelp/dir ... orting.htm) still says

The help files are slow in getting updated.

I see in LUD [Export Households] and indeed a file 'unit#.csv' is exported. The schema is very different from MLS though.

Where is the MLS schema (fields) for geo-coding member lists in LDS.Org?

As a clerk, I use the MLS ward and stake geo-codes to track Spanish/English households and other attributes my unit leaders have requested be tracked. Without seeing/setting geo-codes, LDS.Org member list exports are less functional for a clerk.

rich wrote:I see in LUD [Export Households] and indeed a file 'unit#.csv' is exported. The schema is very different from MLS though.

Where is the MLS schema (fields) for geo-coding member lists in LDS.Org?

As a clerk, I use the MLS ward and stake geo-codes to track Spanish/English households and other attributes my unit leaders have requested be tracked. Without seeing/setting geo-codes, LDS.Org member list exports are less functional for a clerk.

Those codes are not stored in the databases at CHQ. So they aren't available from lds.org in any form or by any mechanism. You have to use MLS for reports that include the Geo Code fields.

I partially agree/understand that they aren't available in LDS.Org. From my experience geo-codes are received/sent from/to CHQ all the time.

Example: when I receive a new record in my unit, CHQ often has the geo-codes set to some value that means something to them or the previous unit the record came from. Also when I change a geo-code locally in MLS, do a [Send/Receive Changes], the change is confirmed in a CHQ record update response. Whether it's actually stored at CHQ and would be recovered if I did a [File][Request Unit Refresh Data...], I can't say for sure. I suspect the geo-code values set locally would be recovered though.

rich wrote:I partially agree/understand that they aren't available in LDS.Org. From my experience geo-codes are received/sent from/to CHQ all the time.

Example: when I receive a new record in my unit, CHQ often has the geo-codes set to some value that means something to them or the previous unit the record came from. Also when I change a geo-code locally in MLS, do a [Send/Receive Changes], the change is confirmed in a CHQ record update response. Whether it's actually stored at CHQ and would be recovered if I did a [File][Request Unit Refresh Data...], I can't say for sure. I suspect the geo-code values set locally would be recovered though.

Geo Codes are transmitted from the ward to the stake which is why you see the change confirmed. But I'm pretty sure they are not stored in the CMIS (the membership database).

I've not heard of records coming with a geo code. That would make it hard for units to know which records need to have the geo code field set according to local standards. But I've never actually used geo codes so I can't say from experience anything about that. Perhaps others can comment.

This is really a different topic so I expect a moderator will move these posts to a new thread.

As Ward building cleaning coordinator I can't make my assignments without a digital list of ward members. Could someone please help by providing a solution to get access to the export again.

scottlynnrichards wrote:As Ward building cleaning coordinator I can't make my assignments without a digital list of ward members. Could someone please help by providing a solution to get access to the export again.

As you can read in this post, access to the export on the Directory on LDS.org was intentionally removed for everyone except bishoprics, stake presidencies, and clerks. You won't be getting access to that export again.

As that linked post also says, if you need access to membership lists for your calling, you'll need to contact your ward clerk.

Given the fact that providing the capability to export a ward list was intentionally removed sometime in 2007, wouldn't it be a good idea to update the online help text to reflect the fact that this functionality is restricted by calling?

If you trace this thread back far enough, it was reported that this feature was intentionally restricted to certain callings.
It would appear that, due to legal issues in certain countries, this features availability to the general membership will probably occur on the first patch following the rapture.
A correction to the online help text, that states the limitation of this feature to certain callings, will probably be available immediately after this restriction has been removed.

arick wrote:Given the fact that providing the capability to export a ward list was intentionally removed sometime in 2007, wouldn't it be a good idea to update the online help text to reflect the fact that this functionality is restricted by calling?

Actually the change to restrict that capability was made in late 2013. The help documentation is suffering the lack of updates because the technical publications team was laid off in January 2013. Technical publications is suppose to be out sourced. What that really means to the community is there is no quick turn around for online help documentation. In fact we are seeing most of the help documentation become stagnated without any changes since the team was laid off.

Either this option needs to be given to all members, or the Print Directory needs to allow printing in all black characters. Those gray phone numbers and email addresses are unreadable, even with the biggest font. I'm a female and therefore can't be given rights to be a clerk. Too bad.... I need a readable printed ward list for an older ward member who doesn't do computers much. Please fix this!

sueallen wrote:Those gray phone numbers and email addresses are unreadable, even with the biggest font.

You may want to explore your print options for something that will fix this. If something is clearly visible on the screen, but not in print, then that seems to me to be a problem with the printer, not with the content.

They are almost as unreadable on the screen. Gray is NOT a good color for screens or printing. Please make it all black! Why have the gray at all? The bold family names and indented information are good distinguishers between families. I made the font as large as possible, but there is no choice to change colors.

sueallen wrote:They are almost as unreadable on the screen. Gray is NOT a good color for screens or printing. Please make it all black!

On my computer it is all black. The only difference is that some of the font is bold and some of the font is normal. When printed the entire document is black font with bold and normal font. I do not see any gray.

When printing the directory PDF, I've always had the same issue as sueallen with some info being too gray using a 1200 dpi laser printer set to print black and white. I end up resorting to third party software to edit the PDF.

Having the same problem. Looks like I can still print the directory and just copy the data over into a spreadsheet. Kind of a pain but still workable.

I am Executive Secretary and I would like to export membership contact lists simply to update my phone and email contacts. Of course it would be easiest if there was simply a sync button in LDS Tools. Importing each contact individually from LDS Tools isn't all that hard albeit time consuming, but its frustrating when you know there could be a better way.

Furthermore, since it seems online access here is slowly replacing MLS, exporting, as others said, is irreplaceable.

I am the building cleaning coordinator I must have a complete ward directory with as much contact information as possible in order to properly communicate the cleaning assignments. I was exporting the directory; now I must ask the executive secretary to do it for me. I still get access to the data, because I must have it to complete my calling. Now, It just makes my job more difficult and time consuming.

It makes no sense to remove the functionality of exporting a list I can see. If I can see it I can copy it. Removing export functionality just makes it more difficult to copy it. I can print a PDF version of it. I can scan the PDF and distribute the scanned image at will. What makes paper more secure than electronic, other than ease of distribution? If the functionality was limited to people with member ID's then the same security level is in place for the electronic version as the paper version.

tobinbeck1 wrote:Removing export functionality just makes it more difficult to copy it.

It makes it harder to load into a database and used for other things.

As a new ward clerk I have a question. Why would I want to export households?

jmower wrote:As a new ward clerk I have a question. Why would I want to export households?

The basic answer is that you can fulfill all your responsibilities without exporting households. Now that clerks have access to the Directory and to Leader and Clerk Resources on LDS.org, LDS Tools on their mobile devices, and MLS on the clerk computer, there are abundant ways to find the information you need.

A small number of quite technical clerks have set up databases to create their own more powerful reporting mechanisms, and those databases typically imported data that was exported from MLS or from the Directory. Some people have used the Directory's export feature to import data into various contact managers. But generally there are other ways to accomplish these tasks without using the export feature.

Well, that's disappointing. I'm in the RS presidency and we wanted to export the list and then sort it by postal code so we could each set up a compact route to contact sisters as a visiting teaching interview/how ya doin' kind of thing with personal visits. Postal codes were a better way to sort than by addresses.

:/

Now this just got harder.

Oh yeah, and since this isn't an option anymore, you need to remove the "how to" from the the help page.

pzylik wrote:Oh yeah, and since this isn't an option anymore, you need to remove the "how to" from the the help page.

It's still there - depending on your calling.

house of order? Whoever manages MLS and the lds.org directories may be in need of repentance

stumpffiddle wrote:house of order? Whoever manages MLS and the lds.org directories may be in need of repentance

I find things to be pretty orderly. These computers and websites are doing exactly what they have been programmed to do. If there is something in particular that you are having trouble doing, and you have a calling that you feel should allow you to do it, there are those here who would be able to help you figure out how to accomplish it.

As for the need of repentance, I think those matters are best left between the developers and their bishops. [grin]

stumpffiddle wrote:house of order? Whoever manages MLS and the lds.org directories may be in need of repentance

I'll bet whoever ordered the removal of the feature for most of the users was considerably higher than the developers. Probably a GA or a lawyer. Call them to repentance at your own risk.

I really need to be able to export households. The Relief Society presidency is in charge of the Ward Christmas party, and I need to go through the ward list to determine who gets taken or mailed an invitation, etc. It's absurd that they removed this. It is very needed. I can do something similar in the Leader Resources, but why can't I add address to it? Why would anyone need age in a report more than address? I can export to pdf 1 column and now my software developer husband is writing a script to put it into a csv, but what a waste of his and my time when we could just export it no problem before.

cheney13 wrote:I really need to be able to export households. The Relief Society presidency is in charge of the Ward Christmas party, and I need to go through the ward list to determine who gets taken or mailed an invitation, etc. It's absurd that they removed this. It is very needed. I can do something similar in the Leader Resources, but why can't I add address to it? Why would anyone need age in a report more than address? I can export to pdf 1 column and now my software developer husband is writing a script to put it into a csv, but what a waste of his and my time when we could just export it no problem before.

It may seem absurd to you that this was removed, but I'm sure the Church had very good reasons.

In any case, another option for obtaining ward lists is for you to work with your ward clerk. He has access to export information from either MLS or the Directory. He can then remove any sensitive information (which certainly isn't needed for your purpose) and give it to you.

Christmas Cards to other ward members.
Why is it gone. It was there last year.

fredccox wrote:Why is it gone. It was there last year.

Read the rest of the thread for that information.

I'm confused. I skimmed this thread but I can't seem to find an exact answer on why the option to export the CSV file isn't there and why there is a discrepancy between this support page and what's actually happening on LDS Tools. I need the CSV file. I am an assistant executive secretary (placed as an assistant ward clerk in MLS) for my ward and would have figured I would naturally have access, according to posts here. But the support page I link does not say that special privileges are needed. If this has changed, it must be reflected on the support page, since that's what it's there for. Anyway, I need the CSV file because of the limitations of LDS Tools. I can export to a PDF, sure, but I cannot do much with it. At best, it is limited to listing members by last name alphabetically with photos and other info but we need our directory organized by apartment for those with applicable callings to easily use it, so I am using a third party program to do this. I will be updating the directory often, I need to be able to get the CSV often. The purpose of LDS Tools is to make our lives and callings easier, but this is not the case and it is clear that many are finding this frustrating and limiting. Will this be fixed? Logically it makes no sense that the ability to export the CSV has been removed for regular/non-clerk members. If we can SEE the directory since we're in the ward, and we can even EXPORT the PDF, why can't we get the CSV?

natelovesyou wrote:Logically it makes no sense that the ability to export the CSV has been removed for regular/non-clerk members. If we can SEE the directory since we're in the ward, and we can even EXPORT the PDF, why can't we get the CSV?

There is definitely a greater ability to misuse a CSV than a PDF. For example, it's simple to use a CSV to create an inappropriate mass mailing. Doing the same with the PDF required retyping all the information or at least using OCR to extract text and then reformat. Basically, the same convenience that you want can be used to misuse the information.

The church has to balance convenience against protecting sensitive information against misuse. The general authorities that decide these things have to consider not only the needs and best interests of the leaders and members but also privacy laws in many countries (many of which are much more strict than in the US).

I have no inside information on what happened to cause the restriction over what used to be available. It might have been legal, there may have been some incident or it may have just been an internal review. But I wouldn't expect it to come back for general membership. It's possible access might be expanded to certain other ward leadership. This is just speculation based on increased access to LCR for organization leaders. But I wouldn't count on that either. Access to the CSV export in MLS has long been strongly restricted and there has even been talk from developers that it might be removed entirely. The trend has been for less access to data in CSV format.

This may also be driven by a desire to reduce or eliminate the use of membership data with 3rd party software tools where the church can't control how and where the information goes.

eblood66 wrote:

natelovesyou wrote:Logically it makes no sense that the ability to export the CSV has been removed for regular/non-clerk members. If we can SEE the directory since we're in the ward, and we can even EXPORT the PDF, why can't we get the CSV?

There is definitely a greater ability to misuse a CSV than a PDF. For example, it's simple to use a CSV to create an inappropriate mass mailing. Doing the same with the PDF required retyping all the information or at least using OCR to extract text and then reformat. Basically, the same convenience that you want can be used to misuse the information.

The church has to balance convenience against protecting sensitive information against misuse. The general authorities that decide these things have to consider not only the needs and best interests of the leaders and members but also privacy laws in many countries (many of which are much more strict than in the US).

I have no inside information on what happened to cause the restriction over what used to be available. It might have been legal, there may have been some incident or it may have just been an internal review. But I wouldn't expect it to come back for general membership. It's possible access might be expanded to certain other ward leadership. This is just speculation based on increased access to LCR for organization leaders. But I wouldn't count on that either. Access to the CSV export in MLS has long been strongly restricted and there has even been talk from developers that it might be removed entirely. The trend has been for less access to data in CSV format.

This may also be driven by a desire to reduce or eliminate the use of membership data with 3rd party software tools where the church can't control how and where the information goes.

Thank you for the very helpful reply! Well, I feel kinda helpless. Perhaps my ward clerk can either fix my permissions, or give me the CSV file every Sunday or something. From my understanding, however, it isn't just the ward clerk that can export it, but also assistant ward clerks and executive secretaries, correct? I've read other comments on this site pertaining to similar issues with LDS Tools permissions for even second counselors who can't do much, so just checking. If I'm given assistant ward clerk or exec. sec. permissions, can I get the CSV myself?

natelovesyou wrote:Thank you for the very helpful reply! Well, I feel kinda helpless. Perhaps my ward clerk can either fix my permissions, or give me the CSV file every Sunday or something. From my understanding, however, it isn't just the ward clerk that can export it, but also assistant ward clerks and executive secretaries, correct? I've read other comments on this site pertaining to similar issues with LDS Tools permissions for even second counselors who can't do much, so just checking. If I'm given assistant ward clerk or exec. sec. permissions, can I get the CSV myself?

I'm not absolutely sure about access to the CSV export in the Directory but usually assistant ward clerks do have access to this kind of thing. Can you access Leader and Clerk Resources (https://clerk.lds.org)? It not, then you may have a custom calling instead of the standard calling of Assistant Ward Clerk. If so, then you or the ward clerk needs to remove your calling in MLS and make sure it's entered using the standard calling.

I too could not find the export household feature in the Directory as the help system indicated. I was able to get a .cvs file with addresses and coordinates via the Maps section. Just click on the download link near the top of the left panel. I do not have a calling that gives me access to leader resources, so I assume anyone can use it.

natelovesyou wrote:From my understanding, however, it isn't just the ward clerk that can export it, but also assistant ward clerks and executive secretaries, correct?

To export the CSV file in MLS the user must have administrator rights. Typically only the bishop/branch president and the clerk have those permissions.

jdlessley wrote:

natelovesyou wrote:From my understanding, however, it isn't just the ward clerk that can export it, but also assistant ward clerks and executive secretaries, correct?

To export the CSV file in MLS the user must have administrator rights. Typically only the bishop/branch president and the clerk have those permissions.

This discussion deals only with the export from the Directory, not from MLS. So the permissions are entirely related to the standard calling assigned to the person, not any MLS user permissions.

gdr538 wrote:I too could not find the export household feature in the Directory as the help system indicated. I was able to get a .cvs file with addresses and coordinates via the Maps section. Just click on the download link near the top of the left panel. I do not have a calling that gives me access to leader resources, so I assume anyone can use it.

Thanks for the tip, but I did download the CSV file but when I opened it in an external directory creating program, it's not turning up the right into. The last name field has info like "-111.671771" and then the first name field has the zip code, and the address has the person's name and address. It's odd. I feel like perhaps the program is either outdated, or, the CSV from the maps section is not the same CSV file I'd get from the directory.

For those that know, is there an easy way to export all of the photos too so that they can be applied to the directory? I'm trying to keep this as non-manual as possible but it's turning into a lot of work, just open to suggestions on how to make a directory by apartments.

Edit: I'm trying to use this program, perhaps I should try this one though.

natelovesyou wrote:the CSV from the maps section is not the same CSV file I'd get from the directory.

It's different. MLS is yet another. Each one is different from the other.

LDS MAPS has been updated to include this information so that members do not have to create their own maps. The ward map is visible on LDS Maps, or the content can be downloaded from there for use with GPS software.
1. Go to LDS.org and sign in to your LDS Account.
2. Click Resources - Locations and Schedules - Find Your Ward or Branch.
3. When LDS Maps appears, your ward area should be outlined, and the households visible. To export for GPS purposes, simply click on Download, found directly underneath the name of the ward.

natelovesyou wrote:I am an assistant executive secretary (placed as an assistant ward clerk in MLS) for my ward and would have figured I would naturally have access, according to posts here.

They have added you as a custom position in MLS, so you won't have any special access on lds.org

The problem that I'm having when I download is that the header at the top of the CSV file are wrong when I download from LDS Maps The info that has been enter via Maps (Emergency Response, and Emergency Comments) shows up in the download as (Special Needs and Special Need Comments)
The headers need to be cleaned up.
Emergency Response* Emergency Response Comment* Special Needs* Special Needs Comment*

For general church members, the Export function was removed from the Directory in late 2013. They can still print the information. Click on Households on the left side, then the print option is found on the top right hand side. However, the general membership *can* still export the data, but not through Directory. Go to LDS.org - Resources - Locations and Schedules - Find your Ward or Branch. When the map comes up, on the top of the left hand column click Download. It will create a file that can be used for GPS and spreadsheets.

The directory download link is missing that was found at the top of the directory in classic view. When I try to use classic view>Map Apps>My Ward & Stake the option will flash on the screen while the page loads before going to the newer looking view. Is anything being done about this?

Someone should write a chrome extension that does custom reporting for the directory. I've never created one before, but it doesn't seem too difficult. Any takers?

kmoser82 wrote:The directory download link is missing that was found at the top of the directory in classic view. When I try to use classic view>Map Apps>My Ward & Stake the option will flash on the screen while the page loads before going to the newer looking view. Is anything being done about this?

It was intentionally removed.

scgallafent wrote:

kmoser82 wrote:The directory download link is missing that was found at the top of the directory in classic view. When I try to use classic view>Map Apps>My Ward & Stake the option will flash on the screen while the page loads before going to the newer looking view. Is anything being done about this?

It was intentionally removed.

Any reason why? This was one of the best features of the site! I wish it was still at least available for leaders. It is VERY useful to be able to download a list of households into Excel.

One of the reasons we've heard is because of privacy/legal issues. If there are certain reports you want to see, I'd suggest sending feedback on Leader and Clerk Resources and see if they can be built in, so you don't need to rely on exporting and generating your own reports.

It is now 2016. The "Maps" feature as it previously existed has been changed and replaced by "Ward Map" as far as I can tell. There is no download feature on "Ward Map" that I can find. Unfortunately, there now appears to be no way to download the ward directory in any useful form other than through MLS.

kentallenhatch wrote:It is now 2016. The "Maps" feature as it previously existed has been changed and replaced by "Ward Map" as far as I can tell. There is no download feature on "Ward Map" that I can find. Unfortunately, there now appears to be no way to download the ward directory in any useful form other than through MLS.

Download features have been intentionally removed. I believe it's for privacy purposes and because the church doesn't want members putting membership data in other information systems. Yes, there are still some things you can do with MLS, but I wonder what the fate of those features will be when all the membership goes online.

Someone yesterday pointed out to me that you can download households from the Ward directory that everyone uses. Not in LCR.

bballrob wrote:Someone yesterday pointed out to me that you can download households from the Ward directory that everyone uses. Not in LCR.

I believe that you can download from the directory only if you have certain callings. It's not there for everyone.

russellhltn wrote:

bballrob wrote:Someone yesterday pointed out to me that you can download households from the Ward directory that everyone uses. Not in LCR.

I believe that you can download from the directory only if you have certain callings. It's not there for everyone.

I just looked at the Directory and saw Export Households was there (I'm an assistant ward clerk). I thought they'd removed that from everyone. I guess not.

When someone earlier mentioned that it may be there based on your calling, I had my son try. He is a Sunday school teacher. He does not have that ability.

bballrob wrote:He is a Sunday school teacher. He does not have that ability.

That calling would not be one of the callings referred to. The callings that would have the ability would be leadership, such as the bishopric, clerk, assistant clerk, and assistant clerk - membership. It is possible that members of the ward council may have download capabilities but I have not been able to verify that yet.

jdlessley wrote:

bballrob wrote:He is a Sunday school teacher. He does not have that ability.

That calling would not be one of the callings referred to.

Which is what I suspected. I just wanted to verify.

I can confirm that the RS president does NOT have "Export Households"

It has never been just for callings , it's always been for members.

rick62649 wrote:It has never been just for callings , it's always been for members.

The export used to be generally available to all members of the ward but it was restricted to just certain callings some time ago. I can't remember exactly when but I think it was over a year ago. Given that all other exports have been removed completely I wouldn't be surprised if this one goes away as well when the Directory is updated again.

eblood66 wrote: The export used to be generally available to all members of the ward but it was restricted to just certain callings some time ago. I can't remember exactly when but I think it was over a year ago. Given that all other exports have been removed completely I wouldn't be surprised if this one goes away as well when the Directory is updated again.

I sure hope they don't take away that export for clerks. There are things we can't do with LCR. One of the other clerks in our ward routinely saves a bunch of CSV exports from MLS before he does a send/receive so he has data just in case they remove another feature that he needs. Then he has something to hold him over until he can figure out some other way of doing what he used to do.

mevans wrote:

eblood66 wrote: The export used to be generally available to all members of the ward but it was restricted to just certain callings some time ago. I can't remember exactly when but I think it was over a year ago. Given that all other exports have been removed completely I wouldn't be surprised if this one goes away as well when the Directory is updated again.

I sure hope they don't take away that export for clerks. There are things we can't do with LCR. One of the other clerks in our ward routinely saves a bunch of CSV exports from MLS before he does a send/receive so he has data just in case they remove another feature that he needs. Then he has something to hold him over until he can figure out some other way of doing what he used to do.

I hope he's sending feedback to Leader and Clerk Resources if there are specific reports he needs, because he won't be able to keep that process going much longer...

Why would you want to remove it---unless you move and then the ward clerk will send it to a new address----thus removing it from ward directory

Does LCR have an exporting feature? My calling is High Councilor so I'm not sure if I have permissions for this. I'd like to export the stake directory, preferably with callings as one of the fields in the export. Thank you!

Jeffobryant wrote: Sat Oct 15, 2022 12:40 pm Does LCR have an exporting feature?

No, LCR does not have an exporting feature. But you can use Member Tools for the same thing. It lists every member in the stake and the calling of each one is also shown.

lajackson wrote: Sat Oct 15, 2022 1:25 pm

Jeffobryant wrote: Sat Oct 15, 2022 12:40 pm Does LCR have an exporting feature?

No, LCR does not have an exporting feature. But you can use Member Tools for the same thing. It lists every member in the stake and the calling of each one is also shown.

Is there a way to export information to a text or delimited file from the Member Tools app? I know I can share a list of names using the Tools app, but would like to be able to export more information than just a name.

crowjb wrote: Mon Dec 05, 2022 4:39 pm Is there a way to export information to a text or delimited file from the Member Tools app?

No, that feature does not exist. The export feature in LCR was removed years ago. That feature was never provided in Member Tools. Speculation is that exported member data had been misused or abused too many times and put the church in a position of liability.

Please note that while the church does not provide any export feature for membership or financial data there may be other ways to get the data. But due to the Tech Forum Code of Conduct prohibiting discussing methods for circumventing Church policies or security mechanisms we cannot allow those methods to be discussed nor allow linking to any website that discusses those methods.

This information is obsolete.

darinray wrote: Sun Nov 03, 2024 2:00 pm This information is obsolete.

Which information is obsolete, and in what way is it obsolete?

jdlessley wrote: Mon Dec 05, 2022 7:07 pm

crowjb wrote: Mon Dec 05, 2022 4:39 pm Is there a way to export information to a text or delimited file from the Member Tools app?

No, that feature does not exist.

I suppose it depends on what one considers "export". Certainly it's possible to export the Ward directory by just pressing the "Print" functionality in your browser, which then brings up a dialog which allows one to choose what to include in the print. While it's not formatted as a CSV it has all the relevant data.

Make sure to check "Show for Heads of Household" for the Individual Contact Information
EDIT: My response was intended to go with a discussion about the export options available on the web, not in the "app".

Jeffobryant wrote: Sat Oct 15, 2022 12:40 pm Does LCR have an exporting feature?

Please see my response here:

viewtopic.php?p=256372#p256372