Funeral expenses paid by ward

In our ward, we have had multiple funerals this year that have required the financial assistance of the ward. Assistance provided has included flowers for the service, clothing for the deceased, food for an after-service meal for the family, and a couple other items that aren't coming to me right now. All of these expenses have been taken out of the ward budget.

As we're approaching the end of the year, I'm wondering if some of these expenses would have been appropriate to come out of fast offering funds. Since these are expenses spent to assist individual members who couldn't otherwise afford them. The only input I can find in the Church handbooks is from 18.6.7:

In some cases, bishops can arrange with morticians to provide respectable burial services at cost when expenses are paid from fast-offering funds.

Is there specific guidance on how to handle funeral expenses? From experience, what has been the common procedure?

Thanks!

In my opinion only the essential items should be paid out of fast offerings. Form the items on your list that would be burial clothing. All other items are nice to have and should come from other sources, in this case budget.

I agree with Gary_Miller. I imagine if a family needed help with the mortuary services, that could come out of fast offerings as well.

We created a budget sub-category under Administration for funerals and place a modest amount in there for post-service family meals. We estimate 3 or 4 funerals per year. We've never been asked to provide any other items but I guess they could be paid from that too. Over the past couple of years the Relief Society presidency has figured out how to provide a nice meal for a very reasonable cost.

From what we have been told those are definitely budget expenses. We normally have 3 or 4 funerals a year. Last year there were more and several were huge funerals. So given how badly that bent the budget the bishop wanted to run some of it out of fast offering and was told definitely NO.

But this year we haven't had any yet. So my bishop is discussing with the stake presidency if we can create an other category for funerals to help level out the budget. The conclusion we reached as a bishopric after reading the rules for other accounts was we were probably within the letter of the law for other accounts but probably not quite meeting the spirit. So it is being left to the stake presidency to decide.

jirp wrote:From what we have been told those are definitely budget expenses. We normally have 3 or 4 funerals a year. Last year there were more and several were huge funerals. So given how badly that bent the budget the bishop wanted to run some of it out of fast offering and was told definitely NO.

But this year we haven't had any yet. So my bishop is discussing with the stake presidency if we can create an other category for funerals to help level out the budget. The conclusion we reached as a bishopric after reading the rules for other accounts was we were probably within the letter of the law for other accounts but probably not quite meeting the spirit. So it is being left to the stake presidency to decide.

Where would the funds in the other account come from?

If they come from the budget then using the other account is both inappropriate and unnecessary. Inappropriate because budget funds shouldn't be transferred to an other account except to cover appropriate member financed activities where the member payments don't cover all the expenses. Other accounts shouldn't be used as a savings account. Unnecessary because budget funds automatically carry over from one year to the next. If you don't spend it this year you can just keep it in the budget for next year (assuming you stake president is OK with that and doesn't request you return the funds to the stake).

If they come from member donations specifically for the funerals then that may be OK but I would think that the donations shouldn't be made until there is actually a funeral. In that case there should only be a balance in the Other account for a short time.

If there are member donations in advance of the need that's kind of suspect. Holding funds in an Other account for an unspecified time but for a specific purpose isn't exactly prohibited but doesn't follow the general guidance that money should pass in and then out of Other accounts in a reasonable time. It seems like it would be more appropriate to wait until the need to get the donation.

jirp wrote:From what we have been told those are definitely budget expenses. We normally have 3 or 4 funerals a year. Last year there were more and several were huge funerals. So given how badly that bent the budget the bishop wanted to run some of it out of fast offering and was told definitely NO.

Once again, the Handbook comes to the rescue.

Handbook 2: 18.6.7, Financial Policies

"In some cases, bishops can arrange with morticians to provide respectable burial services at cost when expenses are paid from fast-offering funds."

This would not cover "huge" funerals, or family desires that they cannot afford. But if the bishop feels prompted to help a family in financial trouble with funeral expenses, the Handbook tells him how to do it.

And the Relief Society sisters will be more than willing to help with a meal, as appropriate. Often they will donate the food as a pot luck, but the cost of the meal would come out of budget funds and would be simple, as well.

lajackson wrote:

jirp wrote:From what we have been told those are definitely budget expenses. We normally have 3 or 4 funerals a year. Last year there were more and several were huge funerals. So given how badly that bent the budget the bishop wanted to run some of it out of fast offering and was told definitely NO.

Once again, the Handbook comes to the rescue.

Handbook 2: 18.6.7, Financial Policies

"In some cases, bishops can arrange with morticians to provide respectable burial services at cost when expenses are paid from fast-offering funds."

But would that cover flowers and the after meal? That seems to be what everyone in this thread is focusing on. I don't think anyone has denied the actual services.

russellhltn wrote:But would that cover flowers and the after meal? That seems to be what everyone in this thread is focusing on. I don't think anyone has denied the actual services.

lajackson wrote:
And the Relief Society sisters will be more than willing to help with a meal, as appropriate. Often they will donate the food as a pot luck, but the cost of the meal would come out of budget funds and would be simple, as well.

If the bishop works with the funeral home, simple flowers can be a part of the services they provide. And at many funerals, most flowers come from friends, relatives, and other organizations.

lajackson wrote:And the Relief Society sisters will be more than willing to help with a meal, as appropriate. Often they will donate the food as a pot luck, but the cost of the meal would come out of budget funds and would be simple, as well.

I don't see how the RS sisters could "donate the food as a pot luck"; that seems to me to be a misinterpretation of the narrow exception for "activities in which members provide food" (HB2, Section 13.2.8). But maybe I'm misunderstanding you, since you said in that same sentence that "the cost of the meal would come out of budget funds," which seems appropriate.

aebrown wrote:

lajackson wrote:And the Relief Society sisters will be more than willing to help with a meal, as appropriate. Often they will donate the food as a pot luck, but the cost of the meal would come out of budget funds and would be simple, as well.

I don't see how the RS sisters could "donate the food as a pot luck"; that seems to me to be a misinterpretation of the narrow exception for "activities in which members provide food" (HB2, Section 13.2.8). But maybe I'm misunderstanding you, since you said in that same sentence that "the cost of the meal would come out of budget funds," which seems appropriate.

I suppose that in an ideal world, totally handbook compliant, those who provided food at a lunch or dinner after the funeral would be reimbursed for their costs. I guess that would also apply when dinners are taken in to a family during times of illness or loss.

The funerals and dinners with which I have been associated have been low-key, low cost, and any food provided was more along the lines of a gift from the contributing family to the grieving family than that of bringing a casserole to the ward social.

I will admit to having attended some funerals in some more established areas of the Church where there were so many in attendance that a ward social budget would not handle the expense. Out here in the hinterlands, we limit the lunch or dinner to the family, their most immediate friends (including any who traveled great distance), and those who are providing the food. Just because someone attends the the funeral does not mean they are invited to dinner.

Sometimes the food is provided at the cultural hall; sometimes it is provided at the home. It is always family centered.

And if a member is asked to bring a dish and join in the meal, and is not in a financial position to do so, they are reimbursed. And if there is a larger family, the ward sometimes furnishes the main dish and others bring salads or other items.

There are usually more asking to do something than there is need.

So yes, I suppose if I were asked to take a potato casserole over to my friend who had lost a family member, I should ask to be reimbursed. Rather than do that, I just let those who need to know that I am going to do it, and ask which day would be best to take it.

On the other hand, if the plan was to feed 150 in the cultural hall after the funeral, I would expect it to be funded out of the ward budget, lock, stock, and barrel. But we do not have ward budget for that, so we do not have big ward socials at the same time we have funerals.

I can see where this may be a problem where other larger traditions are different than ours and have become well established.

aebrown wrote:

lajackson wrote:And the Relief Society sisters will be more than willing to help with a meal, as appropriate. Often they will donate the food as a pot luck, but the cost of the meal would come out of budget funds and would be simple, as well.

I don't see how the RS sisters could "donate the food as a pot luck"; that seems to me to be a misinterpretation of the narrow exception for "activities in which members provide food" (HB2, Section 13.2.8). But maybe I'm misunderstanding you, since you said in that same sentence that "the cost of the meal would come out of budget funds," which seems appropriate.

I don't know about other places but in our ward the meal after the funeral is generally only for the family and very close friends. The ward usually arranges the entire meal, the family pays the ward back for the meat, and ward members donate casseroles, salads and such. I don't see such a family meal as a ward activity that is covered by 13.2.8. Rather I see it as service and ward members taking care of one another. If a family can't afford to help in such a situation there are generally other ways of providing service so no one is excluded. And, of course, providing this food is always voluntary. I don't think the handbook means to prohibit ward members from helping each other directly.

If the family can't afford to pay for the meat then we would probably try to reduce the expense as much as possible and pay for that potion with budget funds. But we would still allow ward members to help out with the side dishes. And if a few ward members wanted to donate the meat even, I don't see any problem with that.

eblood66 wrote:I don't think the handbook means to prohibit ward members from helping each other directly.

Upon further reflection, I agree with you. Thanks for the helpful explanation.

aebrown wrote:

eblood66 wrote:I don't think the handbook means to prohibit ward members from helping each other directly.

Upon further reflection, I agree with you. Thanks for the helpful explanation.

I still think the Handbook instruction is important. A wise bishop is going to be very aware of the situation of his members, make sure that what they do is within their means, and provide budget funds where needed to augment their willing service without taking advantage of their willingness to serve.

For our ward usually the ward provided the table service and the meat for the funeral was all. The members were requested to provided other items as needed. As for limiting it to immediate family that is fine. Where do you draw the line? We had 2 funerals last year that with almost no friends included the family alone was well over 120 people in attendance for the dinner.(120 because that is are steel chair count and we had to set tables well beyond that) Nearly the whole chapel was reserved for the family for the funeral. Many of those in a year and the best planned budgets break even if the ward isn't footing the whole bill for the food.

It is not the norm for the funds to be rolled over in budget to the next year. It can be done at the stake presidents discretion but is not supposed to be the norm. Unused ward budget is supposed to return to the stake and unused stake budget is supposed to return to church headquarters. See handbook 1, section 14.7.2, third sub head, paragraph 6.

Our ward is not located in a large city.

Today I made phone calls to see what the costs would be in our area:

1) $300 to $550 to purchase a burial plot in cemetery
2) $550 to open and close the burial plot for burial of deceased.
3) $575 required purchase of casket "liner" when casket is buried in plot (prevents erosion of lawn)
4) $300 to $1000 for casket (wood)
5) $500 for embalming
6) $1000 for mortician services (storage of body, pickup and delivery transportation, etc)

On the low side, the above amounts to around $3225.00

Question: Has it been anyone's experience that the bishop may authorize payment of the above if the deceased member and their spouse (both temple worthy) are in serious financial hardship? (There is a small Social Security burial allowance of $250 paid to the surviving spouse)

Michael_Newman wrote:Today I made phone calls to see what the costs would be in our area:

1) $300 to $550 to purchase a burial plot in cemetery
2) $550 to open and close the burial plot for burial of deceased.
3) $575 required purchase of casket "liner" when casket is buried in plot (prevents erosion of lawn)
4) $300 to $1000 for casket (wood)
5) $500 for embalming
6) $1000 for mortician services (storage of body, pickup and delivery transportation, etc)

On the low side, the above amounts to around $3225.00

A fair amount of this thread has talked about the costs costs of the funeral itself - for example, refreshments afterwards. (In my area such "refreshments" are closer to a buffet.)

Michael_Newman wrote:Question: Has it been anyone's experience that the bishop may authorize payment of the above if the deceased member and their spouse (both temple worthy) are in serious financial hardship? (There is a small Social Security burial allowance of $250 paid to the surviving spouse)

You might want to read this post up-thread.

Michael_Newman wrote:Has it been anyone's experience that the bishop may authorize payment of the above if the deceased member and their spouse (both temple worthy) are in serious financial hardship?

Guidelines in Handbook 1:18.6.7 explain how a bishop may arrange for a funeral and pay those expenses if there is a need.

lajackson wrote: Guidelines in Handbook 1:18.6.7 explain how a bishop may arrange for a funeral and pay those expenses if there is a need.

You mean Handbook 2. <grin>

Handbook 1: 5.2 provides general guidance on the issue of Fast Offerings and would be worth reviewing.

I think it important to remember that the immediate family of the deceased should be taking on much of this responsibility if arrangements were not made ahead of time by the deceased. Of times there is life insurance and other way for family members to pay these expenses. The Bishop working with the family should be able to determine these needs. Its not simply the deceased do not have the funds so the church should pay the expenses. Many times they have children who and should be expected to help with expenses.

Gary_Miller wrote:I think it important to remember that the immediate family of the deceased should be taking on much of this responsibility if arrangements were not made ahead of time by the deceased.

Which is the general guidance of Handbook 1: 5.2: Individual, family, church - in that order.

Gary_Miller wrote:I think it important to remember that the immediate family of the deceased should be taking on much of this responsibility if arrangements were not made ahead of time by the deceased. Of times there is life insurance and other way for family members to pay these expenses. The Bishop working with the family should be able to determine these needs. Its not simply the deceased do not have the funds so the church should pay the expenses. Many times they have children who and should be expected to help with expenses.

Absolutely. My question is more geared to the deceased having no immediate family except their elderly spouse, no insurance because they have been living on an extremely small social security income ($600 to $900/mo), a very small savings account ($200 to $500 that could go toward the entire funeral), tithe payers, temple worthy, active in church with callings, and known to the bishop for their small financial income. Although I estimated their burial costs may be $3200.00, it could very well be double that amount.

When I visited Salt Lake City a few years ago, the ward that struck me the most was nearly 95% all elderly living on a minimal social security income, with subsidized housing, state food benefits, Medicare, and all. The bishop of such a ward must surely be challenged with above-normal funerals per year. On the other hand, I suspect many elderly living throughout the country may have a severe depression worrying about what will happen to themselves if deceased, or what will happen when their spouse becomes deceased.

If the guidelines permit the bishop, on an individual basis, to pay for the modest burial and funeral costs, then that would be an encouraged and hopeful thought for them to meet with their bishop in advance of their death to determine what else they can do to save for the eventual event, no matter how small their savings may be.

There is a segment in the church who live on a surprising low income, but are only able to save $5 a month.

Your experiences may serve to add hope to those who may lack it.

Thanks,

No policy can cover every possible situation, but the Spirit can. The bishop has the mantel and a Stake President to reach out to for advise and guidance. It's a wonderful process. Hopefully the Bishop is reaching out to any who may be depressed about their financial situation through ward leaders and home/visiting teachers. There is help and hope.

See Handbook 2, 18.6

I noticed that there was one comment that said that fast offerings could not be used to help in funeral expenses. Here is what the manual says:

18.6.7 Financial Policies

Church members who conduct or take part in funeral services should not accept fees or contributions, whether the service is for a member or a nonmember.

In some cases, bishops can arrange with morticians to provide respectable burial services at cost when expenses are paid from fast-offering funds.

I am a newly called a relief Society president. I have my first funeral coming up next week. I cannot find anywhere in the handbook that says that the lunch that is provided for the family comes from Ward budget. Is that just a tradition but not really in the handbook? there’s been some conversation about what part actually comes from the Ward budget, some say flowers, some say not. Some say all the food. But bishop said that in the past we just have a sign up and members sign up to bring the food. I’m looking for official policy not what other traditions are. Much appreciated. Thank you

veronicaluna wrote: Fri Jan 26, 2024 4:51 pm I am a newly called a relief Society president. I have my first funeral coming up next week. I cannot find anywhere in the handbook that says that the lunch that is provided for the family comes from Ward budget. Is that just a tradition but not really in the handbook? there’s been some conversation about what part actually comes from the Ward budget, some say flowers, some say not. Some say all the food. But bishop said that in the past we just have a sign up and members sign up to bring the food. I’m looking for official policy not what other traditions are. Much appreciated. Thank you

I think you're solidly in the "tradition" area. General Handbook 29.5 covers funerals. The closest I get is "ward members could" "Prepare meals". It's unclear if that's for the funeral or for the grieving family. It's placement makes me think it's the latter.

veronicaluna wrote: Fri Jan 26, 2024 4:51 pm I’m looking for official policy not what other traditions are.

In all my years, I have never seen anything in the Handbook or elsewhere that provides official policy on a luncheon after a funeral. Some wards do it potluck. Some ask the Relief Society to make food assignments and otherwise take care of the luncheon. Some do not do anything and make sure that the family has plenty to eat at home.

Everywhere I have lived the meal is for close family members or those who have traveled a great distance to attend the funeral. It is not a ward social with food provided. If the food is potluck, the members who bring it usually provide the food at their own expense. Some families may be asked to bring something and are not in a position to afford it. I have usually seen the ward budget reimburse them for these costs. When the meal is provided as a Church assignment, it is usually covered by the budget.

Ultimately, the bishop gets to decide how Church funds are used. Church members should not be asked to do anything they cannot afford to do. It seems your bishop has encouraged the sign-up/potluck approach to the meal.

No matter how it is done, I believe in keeping it simple.

When doing a funeral luncheon does or can that money come out of fast offerings?

From the Handbook:

29.5.1 - "Members are counseled against practices or traditions that become a burden for the living. Such practices may include ... prolonged feasts"

29.5.4 - "In some cases, the bishop can arrange with morticians to provide modest, respectable funeral and burial services at cost if expenses are paid from fast-offering funds.- "

22.4.2 - "Church assistance is meant to sustain life—not to maintain lifestyle."

Bottom line, there's not much in the Handbook about it. This leaves things open to local interpretation. Some say "if it's not stated, then it's not allowed". Others are "if it's not prohibited, then it is allowed".

At this point we need to invoke 0.4 - "If leaders have questions about information in this handbook or about issues it does not address, they counsel with their immediate presiding authority."