Showing presentation from chapel in cultural hall

We have an area leadership meeting at our stake center this week and they've asked us to show the PowerPoint presentation in the cultural hall. I have long thought this would someday be a need. We had talked about looking into wireless video of some sort, but now are thinking the easiest thing would be to do a screen share using something like gotomeeting. Any suggestions?

* Not sure if this is the best forum for this. I do wish there were building A/V forum here; a lot of discussions would fit best it such a forum.

Tried GoToMeeting and VNC today and it would probably work just for the slides but it failed miserably for the embedded videos.

I suspect that some video is written to the video card directly. As such, any software that embeds the hooks in the OS won't be able to intercept it.

I think long-term, a better plan is to figure out how to distribute the video from the laptop. Newer laptops have HMDI ports. It would be nice to use something that would work for other kinds of video.

Agreed. I need to get a newer laptop; maybe I'll figure something out when I do.

My current old laptop has an s-video output, and I could send that over the building video cabling, but it's flaky and also brings the VGA resolution way down to match. It works OK for video but is poor for presentations. It would be possible to take the VGA monitor output from the projector, run it over network cable using a balun, and convert back on the other end. But running cable through the audience isn't ideal for any method.

Another suggestion would be to use something like expression encoder 4 with the screen capture (which is made to capture the video) and stream it to another laptop that is hooked up to the projector.

Many Projectors will have an RCA output that you could use to daisy chain to another projector in the cultural hall.

JohnShaw wrote:Many Projectors will have an RCA output that you could use to daisy chain to another projector in the cultural hall.

It would work though he stated that using the video (480i) was too low of quality for the presentation. Plus if is like our building that would be a 200+ foot cable.

craiggsmith wrote:My current old laptop has an s-video output, and I could send that over the building video cabling, but it's flaky and also brings the VGA resolution way down to match.

He also wanted to avoid running a cable through the audience and instead use the wireless network

craiggsmith wrote:It would be possible to take the VGA monitor output from the projector, run it over network cable using a balun, and convert back on the other end. But running cable through the audience isn't ideal for any method.

thedqs wrote:Another suggestion would be to use something like expression encoder 4 with the screen capture (which is made to capture the video) and stream it to another laptop that is hooked up to the projector.

I was wondering about something like that, I'll have to try it. Is there something similar that runs on a Mac?

thedqs wrote:

JohnShaw wrote:Many Projectors will have an RCA output that you could use to daisy chain to another projector in the cultural hall.

It would work though he stated that using the video (480i) was too low of quality for the presentation. Plus if is like our building that would be a 200+ foot cable. ... He also wanted to avoid running a cable through the audience and instead use the wireless network.

None of our projectors have an RCA output, only VGA. If it had one I could use the existing cabling by changing the connections in the satellite cabinet. (I guess I could get some kind of VGA to composite converter but don't currently have one.) The video quality would be tolerable but the presentation would not be very legible due to the low resolution. The current ideal solution would be a built-in VGA cable (with appropriate balancing) from the rostrum to the cultural hall output. The best option at this point is probably streaming software run over wireless; I'd set up a separate router to avoid the LDSAccess traffic. We don't have a network port in the cultural hall.

Another option might be to use a camera focused on the presentation and displaying its output; anyone try this?

craiggsmith wrote:Another option might be to use a camera focused on the presentation and displaying its output; anyone try this?

I have but the quality I find is better just running the cable. The presentation appears washed out unless you darken the room enough but then nobody can see the presenter.

thedqs wrote:The presentation appears washed out unless you darken the room enough but then nobody can see the presenter.

Good to know, thanks!

A more low-tech solution would be to have a second computer at the back of the room with the same presentation open, then assign someone to advance to the next slide in the back whenever the presenter in the front advances.

I was going to do that but we had videos as well, and I think it would have been too difficult to sync them well enough so that the audio would be in sync.

Does the computer have an s-video output? If so, I would split the signal and covert it to the composite input to both projectors. You will need some cat 5 or 6 Ethernet cable and an s-video balun.

S-video spitter
http://www.amazon.com/30S2-12101-S-Vide ... tter+cable
S-video balun
http://www.amazon.com/Muxlab-Avad-50001 ... B001DPX5TE
S-video to composite or AV
http://www.amazon.com/StarTech-SVID2COM ... +composite
You may need to order s-video gender changers.
http://www.amazon.com/S-Video-MiniDin4- ... r+changers

I hope this helps.

My computer has an s-video output, but strangely it wouldn't play the embedded video in the powerpoint we were showing. I have a VDA that I can split it with, and I could rewire a couple things and use the building wiring, but it kills the quality. Thanks for the parts though, I'll take a look.

The quandary is that a presentation requires high resolution but a low frame rate, whereas a video is opposite. So solutions that work for one don't often work for the other.

I hope someday we'll have a real built-in video connection between the chapel and cultural hall.

Your meeting's probably over by now. What did you do and how did it work out?

After discussing it further with the area office we determined that there wouldn't be enough people for there to be any value in showing it in the cultural hall. So we got a reprieve, but we need to figure this out someday, before we actually need it.

I've seen the low-tech solution mentioned by sbradshaw in use (put it on more than one device and have multiple operators). It works for PowerPoints, but would be odd if there's video, because the screens will be slightly off, depending on when Play was pushed.

The expression encoder idea is interesting, but I wonder how much latency there is. Would it be distracting?

Probably the best solution is to run some cat 5 or 6 and get baluns. Most HDMI baluns seem to need two network lines, but I've seen some that claim to work with just one network line. I've used baluns for other signals, but haven't yet experimented with HDMI baluns.

It may not be too difficult to run the lines if you don't mind crawling in attics. Years ago (in my single carefree years) I used to crawl through the church attics to get cables places, but now it's hard to find the time. I don't know if you could get the FM group to run the lines. I'd start there.

Hopefully the church starts thinking of video distribution systems for buildings that support things like HDMI.

If this is something you wish to do on a regular basis, contact your FM and have them look into installing an AVDH-1 or AVDH-2 in your building. Depending on your install, it is possible to have a VGA connection at the podium for a laptop that connects to the AVDH device that would be located in the Satellite Equipment closet. The input from the VGA is run through a scan converter in the AVDH device and then can be fed throughout the building using the AV equipment in the satellite cabinet, if your building is so equipped.
Your Stake president will most likely have to give approval for this to be installed, it is a long term solution that can also be used for sending and receiving local stake Conf Broadcasts if you stream them for over flow purposes.

Hey, I'm reaching here but has anyone thought of using one of the new Google ChromeCast HDMI receivers ($35) and Fling to stream the video file? The author of this article says

...[Fling] is really a simple tool. There is no need for servers, browsers or anything. Simply open the native app and drag/drop your files. The video should start playing right away

...onto a display with an HDMI input. This is similar to Apple's AirPlay.

Here's how I think it will work. Plug the HDMI adapter into the HDMI input of the projector (I'm assuming your projector has one). Then, using a Windows laptop, use Fling to play through the HDMI port using the ChromeCast device (streams without a server). Complete the setup and play!

If someone has one, let us know how well it works. Does it have to connect to an existing WiFi SSID or can it be used in Ad-Hoc mode?

Does Fling overcome the security issues?

I'll give Fling a whirl at home. I still think the Chromecast is a better bet for home use than meetinghouse duty, for the reasons explored earlier in this topic (WiFi bandwidth, security/control issues).

jbtork wrote:AVDH-1 or AVDH-2

A-HA! Where have you been all my life?

jbtork wrote:Depending on your install, it is possible to have a VGA connection at the podium for a laptop that connects to the AVDH device that would be located in the Satellite Equipment closet.

What about an HDMI connection? With VGA allegedly going away in 2015, I would hope that the church can provide a solution that works with newer technology as well as older technology. I'm sure we'll have many years of people using VGA connectors after 2015, so I'd want to see both types of connectors available.

jbtork wrote:The input from the VGA is run through a scan converter in the AVDH device and then can be fed throughout the building using the AV equipment in the satellite cabinet, if your building is so equipped.

How well does this technology work with things like Excel (lots of small information that needs to be readable) and video? It's becoming more frequent that visiting General Authorities come with a laptop, and that's when we need to be able to distribute it to other rooms in the building.

As for VGA connectors, I was annoyed to find that the new 32-inch TVs that FM just gave us have a VGA input connector, but no 3.5mm mini-stereo plug input. I guess LG assumed we would naturally use external speakers, rather than the internal TV speakers.

The first 32-inch LG TV we received has a 3.5mm input jack, but cannot play mp4 files from a USB flash drive.

Does it have an RCA audio in?

Moderator notes:

This quote is from the original post of this topic:

craiggsmith wrote:* Not sure if this is the best forum for this. I do wish there were building A/V forum here; a lot of discussions would fit best it such a forum.

Ask and ye shall receive (sometimes, eventually, if you're patient enough). This topic has been moved to the new Meetinghouse Audio/Video forum, the creation of which was triggered by that original post. Thanks, craiggsmith, for the suggestion.

Also, please note that this post was originally unintentionally posted in the Redirecting a/v to building distribution topic; that post and two responses to it have been moved here (the topic that was originally desired) and edited slightly to fit in the correct context.

mevans wrote:How well does this technology work with things like Excel (lots of small information that needs to be readable) and video? It's becoming more frequent that visiting General Authorities come with a laptop, and that's when we need to be able to distribute it to other rooms in the building.

I'm pretty sure that once you drop to composite video, you're back somewhere around the 40 character/line for readability.

Of course, if you're planning on people in the back of the chapel to read it, the presentation needs to be close to that anyway. But the front row people will see a noticeable difference when it come to spreadsheets, etc.

Craig Smith

if you are in the Stake Center, you can use the Satellite rack and a video camera to view it in any room that has a TV outlet. There is a hookup in the rack that allows this if its connected in the Chapel, let me know if I can help we had done this a couple of times with General meetings that need to viewed in different rooms due to the number of people attending.

Regards
Wallace Bryce

I am dealing with this same issue this coming Sunday the 15th of September. There is so much to take in already with all of the posts on this thread. We tried a couple of different options log me in and a go to meeting type connection. Neither one worked well over the wireless. The best connection achieved was to an Ipad but we don't have a lightning connector for it to hook up to the vga port on the projector. They are $50 but don't know if we want to invest in a guess. I am intrigued by using the idea of using the satellite system that is already in place but really don't have a clue where to start.
Also the fact we have 3 Stakes coming together in the evening after the regional conference broadcast the same day I find it hard to believe we will have anyone sitting in the cultural hall.

aebrown wrote:Moderator notes:
Ask and ye shall receive (sometimes, eventually, if you're patient enough). This topic has been moved to the new Meetinghouse Audio/Video forum

Thank you very much!

brycewj wrote:if you are in the Stake Center, you can use the Satellite rack and a video camera to view it in any room that has a TV outlet. There is a hookup in the rack that allows this if its connected in the Chapel, let me know if I can help we had done this a couple of times with General meetings that need to viewed in different rooms due to the number of people attending.

Thanks very much, yes, this would work for a video but I think the quality wouldn't be ideal for a presentation.

I have a legacy building, and with stake conference this week the Stake Presidency wants to show a video on all three screens... (chapel and 2 in cultural hall) This is what I've surmised so far.

1. If the video source (laptop) is sitting at the pulpit, I can provide audio to the whole building but only video to the chapel screen. I could try to time it right with another laptop in the overflow to show the same video at the same time on the cultural hall screens.

2. I can source the video from the overflow into the "camera" jack and provide video to all three screens, as the pulpit projector can plug into the rca at the pulpit to get the signal. however there's no audio input in the overflow.

3. So here's my plan. Can I somehow use the wireless mic receiver in the chapel and use a wireless mic unit to interface with the headphone jack on a laptop in the overflow to provide audio to the whole building? Those lavaliers seem to have a 3.5 mm jack that could work... Would I run into mic-level/line level incompatiblities? Would a wireless mic even reach signal wise from the overflow to the rostrum/pulpit?

Otherwise, how do we show a video with audio on all three screens?

nognielsen wrote:I have a legacy building, and with stake conference this week the Stake Presidency wants to show a video on all three screens...

It sounds as if you have a video distribution system in your building. I would consider tapping into both the video system and the building audio at the satellite rack and running the video from there. I think this would be easier than tapping into the camera input at the rear of the chapel and then running a long cord through the crab box to the nearest microphone input, or using the wireless approach you suggest.

I guess I could do this, I didn't think about that. thanks! However the video is in the middle of the meeting, so i'd have to switch from the camera input in the overflow, and somehow communicate with someone in the library/materials center to start and stop the video and switch the feed over.... Seems problematic. Wish I could do it from the overflow where I can see what's going on with everything.

nognielsen wrote:Can I somehow use the wireless mic receiver in the chapel and use a wireless mic unit to interface with the headphone jack on a laptop in the overflow to provide audio to the whole building? Those lavaliers seem to have a 3.5 mm jack that could work... Would I run into mic-level/line level incompatiblities? Would a wireless mic even reach signal wise from the overflow to the rostrum/pulpit?

Yes, mic-level and line level is incompatible. You'd have to attenuate the line level down to something the transmitter expects to see. Note that the mic input might not be standard. It may have a voltage to power a condenser mic pre-amp.

I think a better plan would be a crab box into a mic input. Do you have a mic input to the chapel system in the back? I've seen some systems like that. Otherwise you'd have to run a mic line to an available mic input. Kind of humbug, but it's not that bad.

Here's another approach:
Get a VGA splitter and VGA baluns. Then all you have to do is run Cat 5 from the chapel to the cultural hall.

If you have a TV or projector on each side in the cultural hall, you could run a cat 5 down each side of the chapel. You probably only need to go over/across 2 or 3 doors with the cable and avoid going across the width of the cultural hall curtain where it's more of a pain to tape it down so people don't trip on it. The setup for that wouldn't take too long (although if you don't already have the Cat 5 cables made, you'll need to put the connectors on them, which may frustrate some people).

If you're going to do this a lot, get stranded wire instead of solid. It's a little more expensive but will survive repeated use. Make sure you get connectors that are designed for stranded wire. Some of them aren't.

mevans wrote:VGA splitter

I'm not sure what you mean by "splitter", but I can't imagine a passive device doing this. It would have to be more like a distribution amp. Particularly since we're talking 3 screens, not just 2.

In our Legacy stake center I can easily reconnect the video cables in the satellite cabinet to turn the video output at the rostrum into an input, whose signal will then be sent to the rest of the building, and I suspect you could do the same.

Get a Ruko box from the FM group and don't use a credit card to open account. they do have free set up.

I just show the video as normal and use my camera on presetting to show the speaker and switch to the screen. Video and audio will go closed circuit thought the building. Is you want to go internet turn on your webcast communicator. Come and see my set up anytime.

russellhltn wrote:

mevans wrote:VGA splitter

I'm not sure what you mean by "splitter", but I can't imagine a passive device doing this. It would have to be more like a distribution amp. Particularly since we're talking 3 screens, not just 2.

Yes, I meant some kind of active VGA distribution device. For example, MonoPrice calls both the passive and active devices "splitters".

I suggested VGA over HDMI here because it's temporary and the cost for all the parts for the solution (wire, baluns, splitter, and gaff tape) isn't going to add up to a lot of money. If you wanted to run permanent wires through the attic, you might think about Cat 6, HDMI baluns and distribution instead.