Financial Clerk Training - Audit Question

Question 3 of the Audit asks: Has each of the bishopric members and clerks responsible for finances reviewed the financial training lessons during the last year?

The lessons are found in the Record-Keeping and Technology Support section of LDS.org

I know there used to be training videos, but I'm unable to find them anymore. Have they been removed??? All there are now are Topical "text" instructions. Are the clerks required to review all of these topics to be able to answer "Yes" to question 3?

URL for Record-Keeping is

"https://www.lds.org/callings/melchizede ... e?lang=eng"

for English speaking clerks.

chrispremo wrote:The lessons are found in the Record-Keeping and Technology Support section of LDS.org

I know there used to be training videos, but I'm unable to find them anymore. Have they been removed???

No, they are still available, but they are much harder to find. There are many topics in the RKATS Finance section you linked to. Some of them are only text, but several of them link to videos. See, for example, the following:

• Weekly Donations
• Expenses and Reimbursements
• Tithing Settlement Process

All of these have a link that says "Watch the Training Presentation" -- clicking that link will bring up the training video (all of which are the same ones that were available on the old site).

chrispremo wrote:All there are now are Topical "text" instructions. Are the clerks required to review all of these topics to be able to answer "Yes" to question 3?

That's a good question. In our stake, we've just had them watch the videos on those few topics that contain training videos. Those are the topics that seem to be categorized as "training"; the other topics seem more to be in the category of "reference."

The Church Auditing Department sent the following guidance on question 3 to assistant area auditors on March 7, 2013.

If the bishopric members, stake presidency members or stake or ward clerks responsible for finances did not review the Church Record-Keeping and Auditing Training courses available on the old site during 2012, this item should be marked “No”. The ward or stake can resolve this exception by having the individual who did not review the training courses go to new LDS.org training site and review the lesson topics available. After reviewing the lesson topics available, he should read the lessons he feels pertain to his calling.

Not being Nitpicky but . . . All the questions under the Financial section are relevant to the the Financial cleck.

So the question still is, do they have to read "ALL" of the topics on the site before we Auditor's can mark question 3 with a "Yes"??

chrispremo wrote:do they have to read "ALL" of the topics on the site before we Auditor's can mark question 3 with a "Yes"??

The quote in the previous post said

After reviewing the lesson topics available, he should read the lessons he feels pertain to his calling.

As I read those instructions, if he feels that all of the lessons pertain to his calling, then he should review them all. If not, he should review the ones he feels pertain to his calling.

how quarterly budget is editted on mls

Since this thread is about 2.5 years old, I'm finding the links aren't valid. And I can't find any training materials for ward finances on lds.org. This audit question has always been vague, but in the past we've at least had access to those videos or other information where there is now none. Anyone have some current thinking or links to such materials?

pbjameson wrote:Since this thread is about 2.5 years old, I'm finding the links aren't valid. And I can't find any training materials for ward finances on lds.org. This audit question has always been vague, but in the past we've at least had access to those videos or other information where there is now none. Anyone have some current thinking or links to such materials?

The available training is at https://www.lds.org/help/support/record ... e?lang=eng. As far as I know there isn't anywhere that has a list that is appropriate for each calling so you have to go through and find the articles that are most applicable. For a number of articles (but not all) there is both a text version and a video version which can be selected by clicking on 'Read' or 'Watch' under the title (see this article for an example: https://www.lds.org/help/support/updati ... s?lang=eng).

Note that you have to have an applicable calling and you have to be logged into your LDS Account in order to see many of these articles.

The support site appears to have several procedural posts that aren't necessary for the audit requirement. I found the following link which appears to satisfy the annual training requirement for the audit. The other resources within the financial support section have more detailed procedures you can use for specific taks. The Financial Training Lessons section is focused on the big picture concepts of safeguarding funds. Here's the link below for the training. Hope this is useful to others as I spent the past 45 minutes of my life trying to find the training link. Hope it saves others some time and searching.

https://www.lds.org/help/support/record ... s?lang=eng

How do I put someone on as a temporary member so they can carry out a LUFAS audit?

I don't think you can. The individual has to be in one of the "Authorized" callings in MLS to be able to access LUFAS. The Stake will have to put the Auditor in MLS for them to be able to see your Audit in LUFAS.

chrispremo wrote:Question 3 of the Audit asks: Has each of the bishopric members and clerks responsible for finances reviewed the financial training lessons during the last year?

Note that this question has been changed for the current audit (second half of 2016). The "during the last year" requirement has been dropped.

When you say 'carry out' the audit, what do you mean? I'm confused about why anyone who is supposed to be involved with the audit (bishop, finance clerk, etc) or the auditor would not have the ability to enter LUFAS. Is it a matter of that person not being listed with a calling that gives them access to LUFAS?

waltbristow wrote:When you say 'carry out' the audit, what do you mean? I'm confused about why anyone who is supposed to be involved with the audit (bishop, finance clerk, etc) or the auditor would not have the ability to enter LUFAS. Is it a matter of that person not being listed with a calling that gives them access to LUFAS?

The auditor has access to LUFAS or he would not be able to complete the audit. The bishop has access or he would not be able to sign the audit.

The audit questions used to be available in MLS and could be reviewed by the clerks. I do not know if they are still there, but I would not be surprised if they are no longer.

You can review/print a copy of the audit questions on the web - from your local MLS go to Other Resources on the menu bar, then audits. You will be redirected to the web where you can log in (if you have the rights - as a finance clerk I can get in, probably the clerk and the bishop can as well). The audit form has a 2017 copyright notice at the bottom so it is reasonable to conclude that this is the current form that is used.

As a Ward Clerk I am not able to review/print the audit questions. When I sign in the web, it says I am not authorized.
Our Ward Financial audit is now due and I want to prepare for it (just called as WC). We do not have a Financial Clerk called.
How can I review/print the questions?

William Taylor-Basil

lazbaz wrote:As a Ward Clerk I am not able to review/print the audit questions. When I sign in the web, it says I am not authorized.
Our Ward Financial audit is now due and I want to prepare for it (just called as WC). We do not have a Financial Clerk called.
How can I review/print the questions?

Have you been added to your calling on Leader and Clerk Resources? If you have access, you can check by going to Leader and Clerk Resources > Organizations > Bishopric. Otherwise, you can check under Organizations in the LDS.org Directory or the LDS Tools app.

If you are listed in your calling, how long has it been since you were added? Sometimes it takes a few hours or overnight for online permissions to sync to callings.

Is your membership record number properly associated with your LDS Account? You can check at LDSAccount.LDS.org > Membership.

Did you go directly to Audit.LDSChurch.org, or did you follow a link that was bookmarked or emailed to you? Certain sections of the site may only be visible to stake auditors, for example, but if you go directly to Audit.LDSChurch.org you will see all the sections of the site that are visible to you.

I was called on 27th November 2016. My Ward Clerk Calling shows up in LCR.
I just went directly to audit.ldschurch.org nd signed in and still says "User has no valid assignments for this application."

So what is the next step?
Regards

lazbaz wrote:I was called on 27th November 2016. My Ward Clerk Calling shows up in LCR.
I just went directly to audit.ldschurch.org nd signed in and still says "User has no valid assignments for this application."

So what is the next step?
Regards

Not sure if this is what you're after, but did you notice on the login page. Lower left of the sign in area - Training and Support.

As a Ward Clerk you don't have direct access to the audit process. Certainly the Bishop and the Auditors do and their are possibly others. I don't think that anyone else, at the ward level, has access.

lazbaz wrote:I was called on 27th November 2016. My Ward Clerk Calling shows up in LCR.
I just went directly to audit.ldschurch.org nd signed in and still says "User has no valid assignments for this application."

So what is the next step?
Regards

You could ask your bishop to sign in and print the document or you could (with the bishop's and stake president's consent) record yourself as finance clerk as well as ward clerk.

eblood66 wrote:... or you could (with the bishop's and stake president's consent) record yourself as finance clerk as well as ward clerk.

I don't think the finance clerk has any more permissions than the ward clerk. The finance clerk (if there is one specifically designated) is an assistant to the ward clerk.

I've just checked the Users who have access information. At ward level, only the Bishop has access.

sbradshaw wrote:

eblood66 wrote:... or you could (with the bishop's and stake president's consent) record yourself as finance clerk as well as ward clerk.

I don't think the finance clerk has any more permissions than the ward clerk. The finance clerk (if there is one specifically designated) is an assistant to the ward clerk.

I'm listed as Assistant Ward Clerk and Assistant Ward Clerk - Finance and I have extremely limited access. Basically I just get a page that lets me print a copy of the audit form. But one of those callings provides access to the form. I would assume that a Ward Clerk would also have access but from the thread so far it doesn't seem like it.

eblood66,

Thank you for your help.
lazbaz

Biggles wrote:I've just checked the Users who have access information. At ward level, only the Bishop has access.

Where to check what access which Users have?

lazbaz wrote:

Biggles wrote:I've just checked the Users who have access information. At ward level, only the Bishop has access.

Where to check what access which Users have?

Check my earlier post #19 on where to find the information.

Biggles wrote:

lazbaz wrote:

Biggles wrote:I've just checked the Users who have access information. At ward level, only the Bishop has access.

Where to check what access which Users have?

Check my earlier post #19 on where to find the information.

My apology Biggles, but the posts are not numbered. So which one is #19?

Thanks

lazbaz wrote:My apology Biggles, but the posts are not numbered. So which one is #19?

I think he's talking about this one: https://tech.lds.org/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 10#p166813

I contacted our assistant area auditor and the Global support in Salt Lake about this about 3 weeks ago. Ward Clerks are not even able to login to LUFAS. The Assistant Clerk - Finance can login to LUFAS and print the audit forms. You will need to have the Bishop or Stake Clerks print out the forms for you if you do not have an assistant clerk for finances called. In our stake, we are encouraging our ward clerks to do internal ward audits ahead of the official audit to help reduce exceptions and ran into this problem. I said that the ward clerk should have access for the following reasons:
1. The Ward Clerk is responsible for all of the work done by his assistant clerks - if they are not available, he is still responsible to make sure everything happens as it should.
2. In some wards, the ward clerk does all of the reimbursement/audit duties and the assistant finance clerk only does tithing on Sundays.
3. What if there is not an assistant clerk for finances called?

The response back from the auditing department was:
"We have discussed this several times and do not wish to give ward clerks access. This would add one more level of required security and would add more than 30,000 additional LUFAS users. We believe ward clerks can get needed information from the SAC or stake clerk"

You have made very important points. I wanted to be prepared before the external audit took place. I don'the know what/how long the questions are.
I will get the Bishop (we are supposed to reduce the work for him!) to review/print it.
Thank you for your help. Much appreciated

As a ward AC-F I cannot access LUFAS to print out the audit form. According to the access matrix the bishop can, but not even the ward clerk.

https://www.lds.org/help/support/lufas/ ... s?lang=eng

aclawson wrote:As a ward AC-F I cannot access LUFAS to print out the audit form. According to the access matrix the bishop can, but not even the ward clerk.

Although I definitely was able to access the form 6 months ago, when I tried just now I can't any longer. It now says I do not have a valid assignment.

Things are being set up at LUFAS for the new audit period, and there is usually a short time in July (and January) each year when the site does funny things. That may be the case here and it may resolve itself in a few days. I no longer have access, but our auditors have said the site has changed significantly for this audit period.

I do not recall that the finance clerk had access to LUFAS or the audit forms. I think only those who actually process the audit have that access, bishops, auditors, the audit committee, stake president. If you do not need to electronically sign the audit, I don't think you have access. At least that is the way it used to be.

I'm a relatively newly called Ward Financial Clerk (one of 3). A few years ago I was a Stake Financial Clerk. I have been surprised at how I have seen no emphasis on the training. The current handbook wording that I could find regarding training also seemed vague on what was expected. Does the audit no longer contain an annual training requirement? (That would seem surprising. It always seemed fairly important to me.)

As a Ward Financial Clerk, I don't really have access to LUFAS

As for training frequency and subject matter, did you look at Handbook 1: 13.3.2 Stake Clerk? I know it can be hard to find everything as it's sometime categorized in unexpected ways.

Stake and Ward Audits—Question 3: Financial Training for Leaders

The stake president ensures that clerks, stake leaders, and ward leaders are taught their financial responsibilities and that they are adequately trained. The bishop has the same responsibility for all ward leaders and clerks. Some leaders and clerks may need occasional training; others may need frequent training. In previous audits, this question set a minimum training frequency of once every 12 months. Recognizing that this may be too frequent for some leaders and clerks and not frequent enough for others, the minimum training frequency of once every 12 months has been removed.

Ahh, well, now I can see why training is seen as optional in my ward. (I think I may be the only clerk in my ward currently who has gone through it at all.)

Yes, each 6 months both the Bishop and the Ward Financial Clerk are asked the following audit question:
Did each bishopric member, the ward clerk, and the assistant ward clerk assigned to finances receive training on Church financial policies?
Training on Church financial policies may be available by the following means:
• From a stake presidency member, the stake clerk, the assistant stake clerk assigned to finances, or another member of the stake who is assigned and has the necessary knowledge.
• From the lessons and articles found in the Finance section of the Help Center on LDS.org. (The Finance section is under the topic “Record Keeping.”)
• From the assistant area auditor.

Can you tell me how a new ward clerk gets authorized to use LUFAS? I have access to Leader and Clerk Resources but not LUFAS. What is the process? Thank you.

brucepackard wrote:Can you tell me how a new ward clerk gets authorized to use LUFAS? I have access to Leader and Clerk Resources but not LUFAS. What is the process? Thank you.

The ward clerk doesn’t have access to LUFAS. Only auditors have access.

I had access to LUFAS when I was a member of the stake audit committee, but my ward was moved to another stake, so I lost that access. When I was stake clerk, I would download a PDF of the audit questions, and send it to all clerks and bishops in the stake. But now I am flying blind. I don't know what the audit questions will be until the auditor walks in the door.
When I was on the stake audit committee, I strongly encouraged all clerks in the stake to perform a self-audit a couple weeks before the real audit. As a ward clerk, I always audit my own records before the auditor arrives. Doing so allows the clerk to fix 99% of possible audit exceptions. But when the clerk doesn't know the audit questions until the day of the audit, there is only so much he can do to help himself.