List of ordained bishops

I am 99% sure the answer is no, but is there a way to extract from stake MLS a list of ordained bishops? It does not appear that bishop ordinations are recorded on membership records.

mlh78 wrote:I am 99% sure the answer is no, but is there a way to extract from stake MLS a list of ordained bishops? It does not appear that bishop ordinations are recorded on membership records.

Bishop ordinations are recorded on membership records, but the information is not available at ward or stake MLS. So your 99% estimate is pretty good, sorry.

lajackson wrote:Bishop ordinations are recorded on membership records, but the information is not available at ward or stake MLS. So your 99% estimate is pretty good, sorry.

None of the bishops in our stake have their bishop ordination on their membership record. Are you suggesting that it is recorded on a more robust membership record kept at church headquarters?

mlh78 wrote:None of the bishops in our stake have their bishop ordination on their membership record. Are you suggesting that it is recorded on a more robust membership record kept at church headquarters?

Bishop ordinations are recorded in CDOL not on the membership record. That being said there isn't a way to see all members of a unit that have that ordination.

You could submit feedback via CDOL and ask for that information (or as a feature request), but I don't know what kind of reason would be considered sufficient to provide it.

JonesRK wrote:You could submit feedback via CDOL and ask for that information (or as a feature request), but I don't know what kind of reason would be considered sufficient to provide it.

Some of the uses could be:

1. For preparing the new bishop recommendation form (which asks for information regarding previous service as a bishop)
2. So that when a bishop is set apart and claims to have been previously ordained, the stake president can verify the ordination.
3. To help identify brethren for consideration for certain callings (e.g., new stake presidency counselor).
4. For general background information on stake membership.

JonesRK wrote:Bishop ordinations are recorded in CDOL not on the membership record.

IIRC, back in the days of the paper records, there was a place in the priesthood ordination sections for "Bishop". But I noticed that in my test system, MLS doesn't allow anything higher then "High Priest".

JonesRK wrote:Bishop ordinations are recorded in CDOL not on the membership record.

This would represent a change from past procedure, if the ordination is not actually in the membership record information kept at Church headquarters. Is it possible it went away when it was decided that other Aaronic Priesthood ordinations would no longer be kept on the records?

The ordination is definitely recorded on the membership record. Any ward with a newly ordained bishop can verify this, as a Membership action record comes through shortly after the ordination indicating "Bishop ordination recorded," just like any other ordination. It's been almost two years since the last bishop ordination in our stake, but I believe that as stake clerk, I actually submitted the ordination information via stake MLS. (And I'm confident there is much more information stored on the membership record than is available via MLS.)

I would also like to reinforce the reasons why having access to this information would be helpful -- hint: this is for you, any lurking Local Unit Support personnel :

- Nothing fuels rumors about a pending new bishop, especially when associated with ward boundary changes, like informal polling of who in the stake and wards are ordained bishops. We have some wards with decent turnover, and there can easily be 1/3 of the high priest quorum who have moved into the ward in a 1 - 2 year span. Most former bishops I know don't introduce themselves as "Hi, my name is John. Our family just moved here from XXXX, and I'm a former bishop."

- Infrequently, a training topic arises where our stake presidency values insight from those who have served as bishops. Similarly, when looking for brethren who can assist with welfare counseling, former bishops fill this role beautifully.

- When seeking new high councilors, our stake presidency considers former bishops. It's not a requirement by any stretch, but it is something that gets asked, and I don't have an easy way to get the information.

Rather than provide this information via MLS, I think it would be appropriate for the stake clerks to be able to get this list by calling Local Unit Support. I have called in the past and made this request, and I received the equivalent of crickets chirping and a "let me check and get back to you."

+1

I would add in addition, Mission Presidents, Temple Presidents, Patriarchs, Stake Presidents, and Stake Presidency Counselors - it is extremely valuable to have this information from time-to-time.

A manual workaround for those who are interested. In our stake, the stake presidency makes it a point to interview every high priest who moves into the stake. Bishops are under penalty of extended service if they do not let the presidency know of a new arrival. This may not work in a stake with large turnover, but it works here even with several a month.

And in those interviews, the presidency ferrets out past experience and keeps a record of it.

Although, to be perfectly honest, just knowing the people you serve goes a long ways toward radically reducing the need for such lists. The challenge is for new leaders who are not familiar with their members to get to know them better.

lajackson wrote:A manual workaround for those who are interested. In our stake, the stake presidency makes it a point to interview every high priest who moves into the stake. Bishops are under penalty of extended service if they do not let the presidency know of a new arrival. This may not work in a stake with large turnover, but it works here even with several a month.

The real key here is to tell the Stake President about the new arrival after the Bishop has had a chance to issue a calling, lest the stake swoop down and hijack all that newly-discovered leadership.

allenjpl wrote:The real key here is to tell the Stake President about the new arrival after the Bishop has had a chance to issue a calling, lest the stake swoop down and hijack all that newly-discovered leadership.

That's never stopped them here! [grin]

lajackson wrote:A manual workaround for those who are interested. .....

I apologize specifically to lajackson, because this comment doesn't reflect on him specifically, however, I grow weary of hearing about manual work-arounds when it comes to clerking.... and other leadership aspects. When I hear manual work-around I translate that to ..... 100,000 wards and stakes do something manually (or differently), take time away from their families to do something [track the selection, approvals, calling, sustaining, setting-apart, and recording of a calling for one example] and spend a great deal of effort doing things that a quick month-long project from the central office could easily save thousands and thousands of volunteer hours... I feel, at times, that our volunteer hours are built into their equations, and that our volunteer hours are built into church project plans relieving them of having to 'complete' many of the projects they undertake.

In this particular aspect, it would be great if our SP were to interview each HP as they move into the Stake, However, logistics of that are very difficult for us. A list is easy and accessible.

JohnShaw wrote:In this particular aspect, it would be great if our SP were to interview each HP as they move into the Stake, However, logistics of that are very difficult for us. A list is easy and accessible.

In this case, that list might not be as easy as expected, and might prove doctrinally problematic. When someone is ordained to the Melchizedek Priesthood, that ordination replaces the earlier ordination to the Aaronic priesthood. The old ordination date is completely wiped out (as far as I know). His record only identifies the highest office he holds. Bishop is an office in the lesser priesthood, so his ordination as a high priest takes precedence (and is required in probably 100% of cases, as we can't identify the literal descendents of Aaron). And, since bishop is an office in the Aaronic Priesthood, there's nowhere for it to go on the member's record, and thus nowhere to pull it from in MLS. To include it, you'd have to add a line on the membership record for the office in the Aaronic Priesthood, which conflicts with the fact that he isn't really a member of that priesthood anymore, although he can officiate as a bishop by virtue of his ordination as a high priest. So, if that's the reason why MLS is set up the way it is, blame D&C 107. The CDOL, by contrast, is just a directory of leaders and units. If the CDOL was set up to accept historical queries, I think that would be the place you would go to get the information, not through the ward or stake MLS. And, as it so happens, CDOL seems to be working on maintaining a historical database.

JohnShaw wrote:I grow weary of hearing about manual work-arounds when it comes to clerking.... and other leadership aspects.

Part of the reason we suggest such things is that we have no idea how long it will take and where it is on CHQ's priority list. By the time that feature is developed, there's a fair chance you'll be on to a new calling. Manual processes is something you can do now. Waiting for a automated process isn't productive.

allenjpl wrote: The CDOL, by contrast, is just a directory of leaders and units. If the CDOL was set up to accept historical queries, I think that would be the place you would go to get the information, not through the ward or stake MLS. And, as it so happens, CDOL seems to be working on maintaining a historical database.

Actually CDOL has some historical positions. Bishop is one of those. You just have to have the rights to see/search them.

Presentnig a list of ordained bishops in a ward is something that could be done within CDOL. I would just need it to be prioritized. If this is desired I would recommend submitting feedback within CDOL and listing the benefits of this feature.

JonesRK wrote:Actually CDOL has some historical positions. Bishop is one of those. You just have to have the rights to see/search them.

I can see a historical information tab in my own ward, which identifies the only former bishop we've had (we're a relatively new ward), so I wasn't sure if it went beyond that or not. I can't see any historical information for my stake, because my stake has no historical information (it's even newer than my ward), so I can't tell if I even have access to it. Still, once a stake clerk had worked through the entire High Priests Quorum in the stake, it would only take a few minutes each month to identify whether move-ins were also in *the system*. But the initial undertaking would be massive, unless there was some way to speed up the process. Like, for instance, creating a stake-wide "High Priest Quorum" membership report in Leadership & Clerk Resources, and then providing access to a "Search CDOL" function directly from a name or list of names.