Building scheduler limitations with v2

With v1 of the calendar, as a building scheduler I could create an event and drop in on a unsubscribed calendar. Those unsubscribed calendars would be all of the ward calendars. This was extremely helpful in that I could take a call or email and schedule an activity on their particular wards calendar.

In our stake, we also have a "Stake Resource Calendar" where we drop events that don't really need to be on the main stake or individual ward calendars i.e. wedding receptions, recitals, etc... I could create and event on that calendar then edit the calendar where it would reside. Sometimes a ward would want one of those types of events to be on their calendar. I don't have visibility to those unsubscribed calendars anymore. Or .... I can't see what I need to change to gain access to them.

dshepher wrote:With v1 of the calendar, as a building scheduler I could create an event and drop in on a unsubscribed calendar. Those unsubscribed calendars would be all of the ward calendars. This was extremely helpful in that I could take a call or email and schedule an activity on their particular wards calendar.

In our stake, we also have a "Stake Resource Calendar" where we drop events that don't really need to be on the main stake or individual ward calendars i.e. wedding receptions, recitals, etc... I could create and event on that calendar then edit the calendar where it would reside. Sometimes a ward would want one of those types of events to be on their calendar. I don't have visibility to those unsubscribed calendars anymore. Or .... I can't see what I need to change to gain access to them.

This has been noted in two other threads:

• Edit event page only shows stake calendars
• calendars missing

jdcr256, any chance this is in the queue to get fixed soon?

This is becoming a big problem four our stake. Just in the past week, a couple well intending members are checking the "reserve entire location" for some of their activities and it is preventing others from scheduling rooms. I can't adjust the event because I don't have permissions on their calendar. I realize this is a training issue and have addressed it with the members who have done this on quite a few of their events. It would be nice to have the v1 ability for stake building schedulers to have access to unsubscribed calendars with locations/rooms included.

If you are a building scheduler for that location, you should be able to edit/delete any event on any calendar that books a resource in that location. However, you can't create events on those calendars. So the scenario you mention in post #3 should be something that you can resolve as a building scheduler.

You can see the event in the week view and click to edit it. You should also be able to see the event on the reservation calendar for that location (currently broken, but on the short list to be fixed), and edit it from there.

So, while you no longer have access to the calendars per se, you do have access to the events that use your location.

I'm finding that if I "touch" an event, then it gets moved to the stake calendar. The first stake calendar. So suddenly a ward event is now showing up in the stake "Holiday" calendar.

RussellHltn wrote:I'm finding that if I "touch" an event, then it gets moved to the stake calendar. The first stake calendar. So suddenly a ward event is now showing up in the stake "Holiday" calendar.

This sounds like a bug that was fixed in the update we rolled out yesterday. Make sure your cache has been cleared and try again. You don't have to save the event if you still see the problem, just make sure that the calendar drop down on the edit screen shows the original calendar the event was on before you tried to edit it.

jdcr256 wrote:If you are a building scheduler for that location, you should be able to edit/delete any event on any calendar that books a resource in that location. However, you can't create events on those calendars. So the scenario you mention in post #3 should be something that you can resolve as a building scheduler.

You can see the event in the week view and click to edit it. You should also be able to see the event on the reservation calendar for that location (currently broken, but on the short list to be fixed), and edit it from there.

So, while you no longer have access to the calendars per se, you do have access to the events that use your location.

I agree that I can edit the event, but once I do so, I can only save it to a calendar that I have edit permissions on. For example (a real one btw), a RS secretary creates an activity on her RS calendar. She selects a location in the event but clicks the "use the entire building". Since she created an event with a location, I can see the event in week view. If I need to change the rooms to accommodate another event, I have to save that event to a different calendar, not the sisters RS calendar because of this change in v2. In doing so, she looses visibility to her event unless she is subscribed to to the calendar where I saved the edited event. I can email her and call her with the information...but she cannot pull that event back onto her calendar. Why not allow the same v1 functionality for building schedulers? With v1, I could edit the location resources and save it back on her calendar. I would typically add a note to the description indicating why the event was edited.

Better yet, when I would get an email/call from a non-editor, I could add those events with resources and drop them into the appropriate ward calendar. We asked all the wards to name their calendars with a ward prefix so we could identify and group the unsubscribed calendars. It was very functional and worked very well. This is definitely a step backwards.

jdcr256 wrote:This sounds like a bug that was fixed in the update we rolled out yesterday. Make sure your cache has been cleared and try again.

So are you saying the bug fix will allow the event to be saved to the original ward calendar? Want to make sure I understand that correctly. When I open those events, I can only update them to a calendar for which I have edit permission. Maybe I am confused.

jdcr256 wrote:This sounds like a bug that was fixed in the update we rolled out yesterday. Make sure your cache has been cleared and try again. You don't have to save the event if you still see the problem, just make sure that the calendar drop down on the edit screen shows the original calendar the event was on before you tried to edit it.

Perhaps. But at this point I still can't see any calendars other then the stake calendars, so I can't move it back to where it belongs. (I'm a default admin and Building Scheduler)

I noticed that for other events, I can see just that one calendar the event comes from, but that doesn't help me fix this problem.

dshepher wrote:So are you saying the bug fix will allow the event to be saved to the original ward calendar? Want to make sure I understand that correctly. When I open those events, I can only update them to a calendar for which I have edit permission. Maybe I am confused.

Yes, in the original release, editing an event that booked a resource would only allow you to save it to a calendar you had edit rights to. The bug fix we put out yesterday at 4pm fixed that bug so the calendar field will now include the original calendar the event belongs to. I don't know why the fix is not working for you, but I'll continue to investigate.

RussellHltn wrote:I noticed that for other events, I can see just that one calendar the event comes from, but that doesn't help me fix this problem.

I'm afraid the only way to fix the problem now is to delete the event and have the original calendar editor re-create it.

jdcr256 wrote:I don't know why the fix is not working for you, but I'll continue to investigate.

From what you've indicated, I think it's is working. The damage was done before the bug fix was rolled out.

But now that the event is on the stake calender, I can't move it back because I can't see anything but the stake calendars in the edit screen. In other words, I can't schedule a resource for a non-stake calendar.

Will the v1 functionality every be restored in some shape or form? i.e. Will stake building schedulers ever be able to create an event on non-stake calendars that they don't have edit permissions on?

dshepher wrote:Will the v1 functionality every be restored in some shape or form? i.e. Will stake building schedulers ever be able to create an event on non-stake calendars that they don't have edit permissions on?

That functionality was mostly accidental. We are trying to design a good paradigm for sharing ward calendars with different stake members, based on roles or need.

jdcr256 wrote:That functionality was mostly accidental. We are trying to design a good paradigm for sharing ward calendars with different stake members, based on roles or need.

So, do I understand correctly that a building scheduler can no longer create an event on any calendar other than ones within the ward they are members of and stake calendars (ie calendars they are subscribed to)? That they have lost the functionality in V2 of being able to create events on other ward's calendars that reside within the building they have been designated as building schedulers for?

meyerds9 wrote:So, do I understand correctly that a building scheduler can no longer create an event on any calendar other than ones within the ward they are members of and stake calendars (ie calendars they are subscribed to)? That they have lost the functionality in V2 of being able to create events on other ward's calendars that reside within the building they have been designated as building schedulers for?

Yes, we have lost that v1 "feature". You cannot, as a building scheduler, create an event and place it on a calendar that you do not have editor permissions. You CAN edit an event on a calendar that you don't have editor permissions on and save it. Just can't create one from scratch.

That is really unfortunate. The v1 building scheduler feature of being able to add/edit events on calendars the scheduler is not subscribed to is a necessary feature. Removing that in v2 is a big step backwards and will only cause more difficulty and issues across buildings. I just had to schedule a Court of Honor for another ward in my building and I had to add it to a "Stake Calendar" because that ward's calendars are no longer available to me. Their ward cannot schedule the event on that night because it is blocked, so they have no access to add anything on that night.

Removing the other wards' calendars from building schedulers and stake leaders view is a step backwards! Please restore this functionality!

jdcr256 wrote:That functionality was mostly accidental. We are trying to design a good paradigm for sharing ward calendars with different stake members, based on roles or need.

In the meantime, would it be possible to restore this until something is figured out?

RussellHltn wrote:In the meantime, would it be possible to restore this until something is figured out?

+1 on this. This has severely impacted my effectiveness as a building scheduler.

This causes confusion in our stake as well. The missionaries always call me to reserve the Stake Center for baptisms (it is the only font in the Stake; I am the building scheduler). Although I can schedule the font, I cannot add the event to the ward calendar of the ward where the missionaries are serving. So they have to make 2 calls -- 1 to me to schedule the font; and one to the ward calendar person who will add it to the ward calendar. But, unless I misunderstand, the ward scheduling person cannot include the correct location, since that ward meets in another building.

mwgbell wrote:But, unless I misunderstand, the ward scheduling person cannot include the correct location, since that ward meets in another building.

That can be fixed by assigning the other wards to that building in addition to their normal building.

I think that the answer is to use the reservation system instead of creating events. You can schedule a reservation and allow only a certain ward to use the building during that time. This way the time is blocked out, everyone in the stake can see it, and you don't have to put it on a specific calendar, just assign it to a specific ward (much easier than going through that list that had 10 different "Elders Quorum"s on it and not knowing from which ward each one was.) I wish the title was more prominent, and for some reason it only shows up in week view on the calendar, not month view, but I believe that using the reservation system is the intended way to do it from here on out. Though it needs a few tweaks, I much prefer this to to the mess of calendars from before.

My building schedulers were confused by this change, however, so I made this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SGGaTXpScaY

I agree wholeheartedly that this is a step backwards. I am a building scheduler and get calls all the time from wards within the building I schedule. I can no longer help them and schedule the building on one of their wards calendar. There are many people who are not computer savvy (believe it or not in this day) that don't understand how to get on and schedule the building. If we rely 100% on ward auxiliaries to schedule the building on their own, I fear we will have more conflicts because they just won't/can't do it or don't understand how to schedule using the online calendar. While we are in the training stage of this new scheduling paradigm, I believe the building schedulers should have the ability to schedule events on the wards calendars that reside in the building they are over. I fear without this capability that wards in my building will stop using this online calendar all together.

I really hope I am not misunderstanding the functionality of the calendar. I have been using version 1 since it was released and we have made it work very well. I think this is an amazing tool but if we make it difficult schedule for or help those who don't understand how to use it, it won't get used.

Dusey wrote:I think that the answer is to use the reservation system instead of creating events. You can schedule a reservation and allow only a certain ward to use the building during that time. This way the time is blocked out, everyone in the stake can see it, and you don't have to put it on a specific calendar, just assign it to a specific ward (much easier than going through that list that had 10 different "Elders Quorum"s on it and not knowing from which ward each one was.) I wish the title was more prominent, and for some reason it only shows up in week view on the calendar, not month view, but I believe that using the reservation system is the intended way to do it from here on out. Though it needs a few tweaks, I much prefer this to to the mess of calendars from before.

We just had each ward modify each calendar with a ward prefix. This identified which ward it belonged to and grouped them all together. But....that was v1. Doesn't matter now. For all the little issues it did have, I miss the features that made my calling much more easier. I'm sure v2 will get better, just seemed rushed.

michellesmith17 wrote:If we rely 100% on ward auxiliaries to schedule the building on their own, I fear we will have more conflicts because they just won't/can't do it or don't understand how to schedule using the online calendar.

There is a middle ground that works quite well. All you need is at least one person in the ward who is the main calendar coordinator. Each ward really needs such a person to help decide what calendars are appropriate. So if a ward has challenges with finding auxiliary leaders who are capable of scheduling events, they can still have someone in the ward who schedules events. Such a person can add events to any ward calendars. There is no need for the building scheduler (who might well be in another ward and thus not have good access to the ward's calendars) to be involved in 90+% of the scheduling.

Thank you for this youtube video! This helps tremendously. I think as building schedulers we are so used to creating "events" that it looked like at first run through that was taken away from us and there was no way to help ward members "schedule" the building. Creating reservations reserves the building for wards but they have the responsibility to put the actual even on the calendar. It also allows to just block time for weddings and personal use without creating a separate calendar for those events. This was very helpful so thank you for sharing.

Dusey wrote:My building schedulers were confused by this change, however, so I made this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SGGaTXpScaY

I'd be wary of using reservations as broadly as you recommend in that video. I suppose it could work if you only have one building scheduler, but if you have more than one building scheduler, remember that any building scheduler can override a reservation by scheduling an event -- and they won't even see that they are doing that. So your reservation may not be as secure as you hope.

An event always trumps a reservation. Reservations also have no notifications, and cannot be synced to a third party calendar because they don't appear on any actual calendar. That may be what you want for non-Church events such as a wedding reception, but for any Church-related event I would strongly recommend that someone schedules actual events that truly appear on a calendar. That's the only reliable way to make sure you have booked the resource.

aebrown wrote:I'd be wary of using reservations as broadly as you recommend in that video. I suppose it could work if you only have one building scheduler, but if you have more than one building scheduler, remember that any building scheduler can override a reservation by scheduling an event -- and they won't even see that they are doing that. So your reservation may not be as secure as you hope.

An event always trumps a reservation. Reservations also have no notifications, and cannot be synced to a third party calendar because they don't appear on any actual calendar. That may be what you want for non-Church events such as a wedding reception, but for any Church-related event I would strongly recommend that someone schedules actual events that truly appear on a calendar. That's the only reliable way to make sure you have booked the resource.

The problem is this is the only way a building scheduler can schedule the building for events in another ward. The other ward must still put the event on their own calendar.

An idea I had to prevent people from creating "Entire Location" events is simply create a dummy room and block that room. Someone creating an event would still be able to reserve every room (except the dummy) but they'd have to check each box, so they'd probably only check the rooms that they actually expect to use.

robartsd wrote:The problem is this is the only way a building scheduler can schedule the building for events in another ward. The other ward must still put the event on their own calendar.

Understood. But I think that building schedulers are requested to schedule events far too often. I know that sentence may seem strange to people who are used to the old way of doing things, but I stand by it. Scheduling events is fundamentally a ward or stake function, not a building function. So each ward should have at least one person who is an event scheduler. This responsibility can be distributed among as many editors as the ward would like, but there should be at least one. Those people can put events on the appropriate ward calendars and reserve the building(s) as necessary.

If wards are functioning effectively this way, why would the building scheduler need to add events to a ward's calendar? Only in very rare situations where it might be necessary to work out scheduling conflicts. It should not be the normal course of events with the new calendar. So the problem becomes so rare that it is hardly a problem at all.

aebrown wrote:... I think that building schedulers are requested to schedule events far too often. I know that sentence may seem strange to people who are used to the old way of doing things, but I stand by it.

I agree, it is just going to take some time. The more building schedulers encourage self reliant behavior, the behavior will change! Even if it may be easier to just do it yourself. I struggle with that big time! Within our stake there are varying degrees of buy in and adoption. Some ward leaders take full advantage of it...some don't even want to use email. Some just don't like change and resist anything and everything! It's a process!

aebrown wrote:There is a middle ground that works quite well. All you need is at least one person in the ward who is the main calendar coordinator. Each ward really needs such a person to help decide what calendars are appropriate. So if a ward has challenges with finding auxiliary leaders who are capable of scheduling events, they can still have someone in the ward who schedules events. Such a person can add events to any ward calendars. There is no need for the building scheduler (who might well be in another ward and thus not have good access to the ward's calendars) to be involved in 90+% of the scheduling.

Is there any administrator/calling in the stake that does have access to all the calendars in the stake a some level like the schedulers had previously? being a ward website administrator should give access to your wards.

lediesa wrote:Is there any administrator/calling in the stake that does have access to all the calendars in the stake a some level like the schedulers had previously? being a ward website administrator should give access to your wards.

No, there is no stake position that has access to all the calendars in the stake. Stake administrators only have access to stake calendars and calendars in their home ward.