Lighting for webcast

I wish we could keep the choir a bit darker than the speaker like they do for general conference. There are two podium lights but they are at the wrong angle and not bright enough. None of the other lights are configured such that you can dim the choir and still see the speaker well. Would it be considered too outrageous to mount a couple stage lights on the sides for this purpose?

They wouldn't be too visible to the audience, but I guess they might blind the speaker.

We also have a terrible problem with back lighting. The walls behind the choir loft are white and overpower the speaker when framed to a wide shot. In addition, if we could dim the choir during speaker's talks, distractions of unaware choir members would not be so noticable.

We have considered using PAR lights on the speaker also, so I'd be interested if anyone else has had success doing this. Is the additional lighting too much for the speaker and/or viewers? What wattage would be recommended?

I think there's probably as many different lighting setups in chapels as there are chapel designs.

The wattage you need is the wattage that does the job. Dimming is not a good idea as it causes a red shift in the color. You also might want to find out what kinds of light are on the speaker. Otherwise you might introduce yet another color (incandescent, halogen, fluorescent) in the mix.

They don't make the area behind the speakers darker in General Conference. They have lights that are a different frequency that are made to look darker just by changing the frequencies which he cameras capture. It gives the effect of the rear lights being dimmed down, but its simply a setting change with cool equipment that we will never be able to afford on the Stake level,

heyring wrote:They don't make the area behind the speakers darker in General Conference. They have lights that are a different frequency that are made to look darker just by changing the frequencies which he cameras capture. It gives the effect of the rear lights being dimmed down, but its simply a setting change with cool equipment that we will never be able to afford on the Stake level,

I went hunting and found still photos at a resolution too high to be video capture that seems to dispel that theory.

However the photos seem to suggest a very strong difference in lighting. You're not going to do that easily. You'd probably going to have to stage light the entire stage to to do it.

Instead, you might want to consider cheaper alternatives like repositioning the camera or making changes to what's behind the podium.

We had our first webcast this past weekend. Lighting was also an issue for us. We have lights on the back wall behind the choir. there is a row of lights that points down on that back wall. Also above those lights is a row of lights that points up at the ceiling. These looked really bad on camera so we turned them off. Unfortunetly these lights on stage are on the same light switch that controls some indirect lighting for the rest of the chapel. So, turning those off left the whole chapel a bit darker.

Of course everything is being switched to fluorescent also. Fluorescent doesn't look so hot on camera either.

miken2av wrote:Fluorescent doesn't look so hot on camera either.

The key is to do a white balance. But if the lights on the speaker are halogen and the back lights are fluorescent, yeah, that's not going to look so good. You might want to talk to the FM group about finding a different color of fluorescent lighting. Or at least putting those lights on a separate switch.

Thanks everyone. I tried to get our FM group to change what lights were on what switches but they said that was impossible.

I have some stage lights, but I'd have to play with them. And the color temperature is not ideal for video. But maybe adjusting the white balance will help. We have primarily fluorescent in the chapel with a few halogens.

craiggsmith wrote:Thanks everyone. I tried to get our FM group to change what lights were on what switches but they said that was impossible.

Poor choice of words on their part. What they really are saying is that they would have to submit a building configuration change request and incur an unplanned budget expense if approved. For some buildings this would deviate from the building plan standard which is quite hard to get approval to do.

You might want to check the breaker panel. I'm fortunate that in our chapel (not standard by any means) the breakers offer better control then the switches do.

jdlessley wrote:What they really are saying is that they would have to submit a building configuration change request and incur an unplanned budget expense if approved. For some buildings this would deviate from the building plan standard which is quite hard to get approval to do.

I'm having trouble getting them to do pre-approved things, like network cable, so I guess I'll strike this one.

RussellHltn wrote:You might want to check the breaker panel. I'm fortunate that in our chapel (not standard by any means) the breakers offer better control then the switches do.

Interesting!

craiggsmith wrote:I tried to get our FM group to change what lights were on what switches but they said that was impossible.

OK, so here's a solution which really isn't practical but theoritically...you could put each light on an X-10 compact screw-in lamp module (see: http://www.smarthome.com/2005CM/X10-RLM20-LM15A-OR-PSM04-X10-SocketRocket-Compact-Screw-In-Lamp-Module/p.aspx) and control all them from one X-10 master control (40W to 150W incandescent lamps only).

Interesting option!

michaelfish wrote:OK, so here's a solution which really isn't practical but theoritically...you could put each light on an X-10 compact screw-in lamp module (see: http://www.smarthome.com/2005CM/X10-RLM20-LM15A-OR-PSM04-X10-SocketRocket-Compact-Screw-In-Lamp-Module/p.aspx) and control all them from one X-10 master control (40W to 150W incandescent lamps only).

(Emphasis added). I wouldn't do that with CFLs unless they were the dimmable type. Even then it might not work.

Of course if you were in a position to be able to install them, you could just simply unscrew them for the duration of the conference.

RussellHltn wrote:Of course if you were in a position to be able to install them, you could just simply unscrew them for the duration of the conference.

With enough auxiliary lighting I guess that might be an option.
I forgot about the fluorescents not likely being dimmable.

In our broadcasts, we also have a lighting issue. However, I'm not too worried about the choir area being darker. Instead, I have a problem with the two spotlights from above being at such an angle that there are a lot of vertical shadows on the face (under eyes/nose). I like the spotlights, as they let me turn down the exposure (which gives some of the choir dimming effect), but I end up with either very dark eyes or very bright foreheads.

My question is this: are there any suggestions/recommendations for fill lighting from below? It would need to be very discreet, but bright enough to balance a couple overhead spotlights.

rgme wrote:My question is this: are there any suggestions/recommendations for fill lighting from below? It would need to be very discreet, but bright enough to balance a couple overhead spotlights.

The most important thing is to have the fill lighting the same color temperature as the main lighting. If those spotlights are halogen, then you'll need halogen fills.

I think you're going to have to experiment with lights, distance and angles. You can't use a dimmer without shifting the color. You might start with some of those "high intensity" desk lamps Seems like that would be about the right power for something close to the speaker. Just keep in mind the heat and avoid burning anyone or setting the cushions on fire.

The CES Devotional with Marlin K. Jensen (6 May 12) is an example of how overcome lighting problems! The broadcast took place at the chapel of the Mormon Center of the Folsom California Stake, next to the Sacramento CA Temple (if I deciphered the information correctly).

As you watch the video (link), you will see a wide-shot at 10 minutes (and also at an extremely-wide-shot at 11:00) showing most of the chapel. Notice all the lights are the same color (our chapel has a mixture of bulbs types resulting in various color temperatures).

Then at the 14 minute mark, the lights above the choir are turned off. While this was a little distracting to the congregation, the results were extremely helpful for the video. People in the choir are much less noticeable and back-lighting problems were diminished. Since the podium was well lit, I assume lights were added and focused at the podium. It appears two fill lights were used because I can see only two shadows of the microphone on the speaker's suit.

The technical crew knew how to make the lighting of this broadcast incredible (and everything else) - and in a regular chapel! While I'm sure this was a professional crew, ignorant people (like myself) could really benefit from knowing what to recommend/purchase and how to set it up.

It would be great if the technical team that produced this CES broadcast (Stand in the Sacred Grove) would tell us what the did to get better results broadcasting in a regular chapel.

Could some of you professionals help us out?

Person note: If you have not watched this CES broadcast, you're missing out! It is one of the best devotionals I've heard.

If you look at 1:01:57, you see an even wider shot that shows some of the lights.

michaelfish wrote:We have considered using PAR lights on the speaker also, so I'd be interested if anyone else has had success doing this.

The proper lighting is a source 4/ellipsoidal light. This is the type of light that has a great deal of focusing flexibility.

Also - to address the question of how they do it in TV/Conference center lighting - they do dim the choir, rostrum, and first few rows then have several very carefully focused lights on the speaker from lots of angles. The dimmed area is not totally dark, though. The rest of the 'dimming' is achieved through camera settings - which I'm not totally familiar with - but I think it's mostly a contrast setting.

To achieve this type of effect would require a HUGE investment in terms of time and money in a chapel, and would result in some pretty ugly wall/ceiling warts. I don't deny there is a problem in many buildings, but I'm not sure adding this type of lighting is the best solution.

To achieve this type of effect would require a HUGE investment in terms of time and money in a chapel, and would result in some pretty ugly wall/ceiling warts. I don't deny there is a problem in many buildings, but I'm not sure adding this type of lighting is the best solution

What would be your recommendation? What type, quantity, wattage, angle (degree) etc. should I use? Although they may be expensive, I have lots of patience to find bargains.

I am mostly ignorant about lighting but I believe our Stake center's configuration would allow us to hide some fixtures pretty well. Also, they would also be only set up for a broadcast.

The rest of the 'dimming' is achieved through camera settings - which I'm not totally familiar with - but I think it's mostly a contrast setting

If the podium and speaker is lit brighter than the background, the iris in the camera(s) can be closed slightly so that a speaker's composition (lighting) is correct and the background behind the poduim will appear much darker.

In our case, there are so many lights falling on the white walls behind the choir, we actually have to adjust the iris down on each camera (which makes the speaker appear darker) in order to avoid over-exposing the white walls in the background (just like in the picture here...and this was taken with all the chapel lights on).

michaelfish wrote:What would be your recommendation? What type, quantity, wattage, angle (degree) etc. should I use?

ETC and Strand are the big brands of theatrical lighting, though there are many other up-and-comers. "Source 4" is ETC's ellipsoidal light. In order to know what degree and wattage, you'd have to have measurements of how long the throw would be. A typical wattage I've seen used in most theaters is a 1000 watt bulb. You may be able to get away with less if you're just trying to get a little more light on the speaker's face (vs. totally lighting the speaker in a dark chapel)

The reason I recommend against trying to achieve the conference center effect, is that you need at least 3 lights (and preferably 4-6) to properly pull off the effect. They have to be mounted very specifically so as not to get odd shadows on the person's face. Then you still have the problem that you need to more accurately control the choir lights and congregation lights when the meeting transitions. That type of control can't be achieved with so many fluorescent lights in the chapel. Then there's a cost for a lighting control console and a dimmer rack. Plus, when you factor in all the wattage these lights can add, you probably need to then add more breakers and electrical circuits.

Just seems way out of scope for what is usually being done for these webcasts.

Maybe you could try just adding 1 or 2 lights on each of your ledges to help pump up the speaker's face a bit, but I'd recommend not trying the speaker isolation unless you have a lighting designer in your stake and a FM with unlimited budget and patience.

If you do use a couple of lights to light up the speaker's face, you might be able to find some gels to shift the color to match the florescent lights. Even in the Fireside video, I find the speaker's face is reddish while the background is green. Not quite as bad as I'd expect, but they didn't get it matched quite right.

In order to know what degree and wattage, you'd have to have measurements of how long the throw would be

The distance from the ledge to the pulpit is 45' and the ledge is 11' higher than the pulpit. The start of the ledge parallel to the pulpit so the lights could be at a 90 degree angle from the poduim. The ledge continues back about 50 feet or so (see picture)

Assuming 2 to 3 lights on each side, how would this be done and what specifics (wattage) would I look for. Remember, I no NOTHING about what I would need as I'm not familiar with brands and types of lights, what wattage would be needed, etc.

I'm not sure what to suggest other then to hit the yellow pages and see if you can find a theatrical lighting rental place in town. That would give you some access to local expertise and "try before you buy".