Out of Unit Callings not going away

Hi,

I just wanted to report an issue we are having with the Callings section in the Leader and Clerk Resources page. We have a few Out of Unit callings that won't go away, even after several weeks for some and over a month or two for others. One is listed as a full-time missionary. A unit refresh on our end did not solve the problem.

Thanks!

stanmoore1 wrote:I just wanted to report an issue we are having with the Callings section in the Leader and Clerk Resources page. We have a few Out of Unit callings that won't go away, even after several weeks for some and over a month or two for others. One is listed as a full-time missionary. A unit refresh on our end did not solve the problem.

The Leader and Clerk Resources area on lds.org gets its data from CDOL. When you do a unit data refresh on MLS, that simply sends the current CDOL calling data to MLS. So a refresh couldn't possibly fix the problem. But a refresh as part of the process for Correcting duplicate or missing callings might help.

However, out of unit callings are tricky, since they are created by another unit. The solution then depends on the other unit that entered the calling. You may need to contact them to correct the problem.

That's right, we can't see these callings in MLS, even after a unit refresh.

stanmoore1 wrote:That's right, we can't see these callings in MLS, even after a unit refresh.

You won't see them in your MLS, because that out of unit calling is tied to another unit. Either that other unit needs to do the refresh and remove the calling (for someone that moved from their ward to yours) or you need to send feedback via CDOL and ask them to remove the calling.

What's the process for sending feedback via CDOL?

stanmoore1 wrote:What's the process for sending feedback via CDOL?

Within CDOL in the upper right there is a feedback link. On the second page in the feedback process there is a 'Information Updates or Corrections' option.

I submitted the following feedback to CDOL and I'm not sure what to do now. As I understand, I can contact each of the previous ward clerks and have them each perform a unit refresh and then delete the callings, but I really wish there was a way that we could take care of these ourselves. Thanks.

Here is the feedback I submitted:

Me:
The following callings need to be removed from CDOL. They are out of unit callings that won't go away. They are in the ... ward and (I listed the callings...). It would be *really* nice if we could take care of these ourselves. Thanks!

CDOL responded as follows:
We checked your unit in CDOL but did not see any of the positions you listed. Please indicate where you are seeing these positions in CDOL. Thank you.

Me:
On lds.org, I click on Tools, then Clerk Resources. I then click on the Organizations drop-down menu, and then Out of Unit Callings. They are the three callings listed under Serving Outside of Stake.

CDOL responded:
But where in CDOL? I'm not showing any of those in CDOL. If it is not in CDOL we can't touch it. If you cannot find these listed in CDOL, please contact MLS support at 801-240-3500. Thank you.

Go to cdol.lds.org. See if the callings in question are there. If they are, then reply to CDOL Support. If not, then the problem is a sync issue and you need to contact Local Unit Support (aka MLS support) so they can check into the problem.

Okay, following up, here is the rest of my correspondence with CDOL:

Me:
These are out of unit callings, so they don't show up in our unit in CDOL. But they should show up in their previous ward in CDOL (I can't check because I don't have the rights). I listed their previous wards in my original message.

CDOL responded:
Okay, we were able to delete [one of the callings], but the other two are entered in MLS as custom positions and we cannot touch custom positions from CDOL. The [previous] wards will have to remove the respective custom callings from within MLS.


Looks like I will have to contact the previous ward clerks. I really wish there was a way that we could just take care of these ourselves. Thanks!

stanmoore1 wrote:Okay, following up, here is the rest of my correspondence with CDOL:

Me:
These are out of unit callings, so they don't show up in our unit in CDOL. But they should show up in their previous ward in CDOL (I can't check because I don't have the rights). I listed their previous wards in my original message.

CDOL responded:
Okay, we were able to delete [one of the callings], but the other two are entered in MLS as custom positions and we cannot touch custom positions from CDOL. The [previous] wards will have to remove the respective custom callings from within MLS.


Looks like I will have to contact the previous ward clerks. I really wish there was a way that we could just take care of these ourselves. Thanks!

If you want to PM me the info on those 2 custom positions I will remove them.

The good news is that they are working on some of the calling management in the clerk resources tool. It sounds like they will be adding some edit abilities (which should let you fix this problem) sooner, rather than waiting until all the capabilities are done.

They are fixed now. Thank you!

stanmoore1 wrote:Hi,

I just wanted to report an issue we are having with the Callings section in the Leader and Clerk Resources page. We have a few Out of Unit callings that won't go away, even after several weeks for some and over a month or two for others. One is listed as a full-time missionary. A unit refresh on our end did not solve the problem.

Thanks!

I have the same issue with a sister (Relief Society 1st Counseller) who moved in from Portugal. Her records were requested by us in April 2011, but she still remains listed in the Out of Unit Callings list, for her old unit. I've done all the usual unit data refresh for duplicate callings etc.. Any further advice out there?

I want to correct some misunderstanding about Out-of Unit Callings in MLS, CDOL and LDS.org.

1. There is no cross-population between one ward's (or branch's) MLS assignments and another's. If an assignment appears under a ward or branch in "Show all assignments" in CDOL, that assignment was previously entered in that unit's MLS and then removed from visibility in MLS through one of several possible methods. For ecclesiastical organizations, both custom positions (displayed in green) and standard positions (displayed in black), visible in CDOL under "Show all positions," are usually only entered in MLS, and therefore should be removed in MLS if possible. Item 2 describes the normal process for viewing and removing incorrect assignments no longer visible in MLS.
2. The correct process for removing incorrect out-of-unit callings (or other duplicate or historical callings) that erroneously show in either CDOL and/or LDS.org, but not in the current MLS, is to have a CDOL refresh pushed down to the unit (not a refresh requested from the unit). The unit would then transmit from within MLS to receive the refresh, after which a clerk or someone with MLS assignment edit rights would go to the incorrect assignments and remove them as needed. Once only correct assignments are showing, the unit would transmit the corrections back to headquarters, which would update CDOL and eventually LDS.org.
3. If, after the downloaded refresh from CDOL is retreived, MLS still does not display the incorrect assignments, the unit would then need to contact MLS support so that a technician can take control of the unit's MLS computer and check the backend local unit database for hidden assignment artifacts. If those exist the technician can remove them and then the fixed data can be transmitted to update the other applications.
4. On rare occasions the incorrect information might only show on LDS.org. That may be due to timing, where the LDS.org data has not yet been updated after a data entry in CDOL or MLS. That issue is usually corrected by waiting a day or two. If the data still only appears in LDS.org after sufficient waiting, an administrator for LDS.org might need to be notified.

The above information has been validated by testing and research. Examples that fall outside of the above are welcomed and should be sent to oiservices@ldschurch.org.

brobergmw wrote:

1. There is no cross-population between one ward's (or branch's) MLS assignments and anothers. If an assignment appears under a ward or branchin "Show all assignments in CDOL, that assignment was previously entered in that unit's MLS and then removed from visibility in MLS through one of several possible methods. For ecclesiastical organizations, both custom positions (displayed in green) and standard positions (displayed in black), visible in CDOL under "Show all positions," are usually only entered in MLS, and therefore should be removed in MLS if possible. Item 2 describes the normal process for viewing and removing incorrect assignments no longer visible in MLS.

The problem is that in the Clerk resources they do display the callings in Out of Unit Callings from other wards. So when someone moves, if that calling doesn't get removed correctly then the old calling stays in CDOL, and the new ward's clerk can't clean up the calling.

brobergmw wrote:There is no cross-population between one ward's (or branch's) MLS assignments and anothers.

This is true. However, the link of data between one unit's MLS and another unit's MLS is displayed on the LDS.org directory. The linking key is the membership number for the member with an out-of-unit record. The clerk for the unit in which the membership record resides has no control over the out-of-unit record since it is in another unit's MLS. Since out-of-unit records are temporary records they are not automatically removed when a member moves.

The link of data mentioned does exist, but only for LDS.org, not for one unit's MLS to another, nor for a unit's CDOL to another. LDS.org does not push information from one unit's MLS to another unit's MLS, nor from one unit's CDOL to another unit's CDOL. Some prior comments in this thread make it sound like entries in one unit's MLS or CDOL ("Show all assignments") are the result of another unit's MLS entries, which is not so. The only assignments at present that a unit will see in MLS or CDOL are those that have been entered in that unit's MLS or CDOL, while on LDS.org a home unit will see an assignment entered from another unit because the assignment was entered using a member's record number. For this reason, wards or branches need to stay on top of any out-of-unit callings (or active callings assigned to moved-out members that might be stuck in the system) and properly release the individuals in MLS when they have completed their service so that the current home unit is not carrying assignment discrepancies on the LDS.org site, over which the home unit has no control to change in MLS or CDOL.

While I can see the benefit of displaying this information on LDS.org, perhaps the communication between the website and the two feeding applications of MLS and CDOL should be reviewed to consider if one unit's failure to release individuals from callings in MLS should continue to affect the accuracy of the home unit's LDS.org callings list, besides the other unit's callings list. Actually, to me it doesn't seem that big of an issue, as the callings list for any given unit is only visible to a limited number of individuals (it's not like the issue is announced at general conference or broadcast in the media). The biggest issues are that it displays inaccurate information (and we always strive for accuracy) and that the inaccuracy is not controllable by half of the group it affects.

The possible edit tools for the callings list on LDS.org, mentioned by Ryan, may be just the ticket for resolving this issue.

brobergmw wrote:Some prior comments in this thread make it sound like entries in one unit's MLS or CDOL ("Show all assignments") are the result of another unit's MLS entries, which is not so.

Posts to these forums, I think, is a good indication of the level of understanding that exists in the community. If there are but a few who post to these forums with this misunderstanding about how data is handled then imagine how many more who have the responsibility to keep MLS data up to date are not aware of the affect of their recording keeping habits. To have one clerk who is keeping on top of his unit's records and then have one or more other units that do not or can not do the same adversely affect the data of the former is frustrating at the least.

brobergmw wrote:For this reason, wards or branches need to stay on top of any out-of-unit callings...

There are some who are aware of this. But I would venture a guess that there is a very high percentage of that are not for various reasons. Information like this needs to be in front of those who are not aware of the impact they could be creating outside their own unit. Nowhere other than these forums has this information been presented. So if there is a small number of forum users who are aware of this just imagine how many units out there are not aware.

jdlessley wrote:So if there is a small number of forum users who are aware of this just imagine how many units out there are not aware.

Perhaps we could have an Out of Unit Calling Awareness Day. Or the stake clerk can keep it on the list of things he does when he goes around to visit units during the year. [grin]

For me, I am hoping that upcoming editing tools will allow the receiving unit to solve the problem.

brobergmw wrote:Actually, to me it doesn't seem that big of an issue, as the callings list for any given unit is only visible to a limited number of individuals (it's not like the issue is announced at general conference or broadcast in the media). The biggest issues are that it displays inaccurate information (and we always strive for accuracy) and that the inaccuracy is not controllable by half of the group it affects.

This issue could delay or prevent a new member from getting a calling. For example, someone with an out-of-unit calling won't show up on the Members without Callings report. If leadership is not aware of this issue, they may skip over this member when looking for potential candidates because they are trusting the Members without Callings report. Of course, if they are aware of this issue, they can check to see if anyone has an out-of-unit calling and add them to the list.

brobergmw wrote: The correct process for removing incorrect out-of-unit callings (or other duplicate or historical callings) that erroneously show in either CDOL and/or LDS.org, but not in the current MLS, is to have a CDOL refresh pushed down to the unit (not a refresh requested from the unit). The unit would then transmit from within MLS to receive the refresh, after which a clerk or someone with MLS assignment edit rights would go to the incorrect assignments and remove them as needed. Once only correct assignments are showing, the unit would transmit the corrections back to headquarters, which would update CDOL and eventually LDS.org.

How does one go about requesting a refresh pushed down by CDOL? IIRC there is that option within MLS to request refresh but that does not sound like what your talking about.

ckellsworth wrote:How does one go about requesting a refresh pushed down by CDOL? IIRC there is that option within MLS to request refresh but that does not sound like what your talking about.

Call Local Unit Support and ask them to set it up. You need a CDOL refresh pushed down to the unit, not the normal MLS refresh request.

brobergmw wrote:Actually, to me it doesn't seem that big of an issue...

Aw! But you can't say inaccuracy in data display, anywhere it shows up, is not a big issue to us clerks!