LockedOnline Financial Tools

I know this may be a stretch... is there any possibility of a day where we'll be able to use an EFT or online bill-pay format to pay tithes and offerings? About the only thing I use my checkbook for these days is tithing or the rare payment to an individual. It would even be nice if there were also a way to have some general account number for my ward or some central account i could setup a percentage of my direct deposit to and have my employer send it for me. I forsee the issues of such a system being things such as security, transaction fees, limiting sources of payment to debit, electronic check, something not CREDIT - no debt for tithing ... Thoughts?

Question: Would one receive the same blessings if tithing was set up via direct deposit? Yes, the same money is transfered, but it's done automatically without any thought on the part of the donor. This is not a technology question, or even a financial one, but a spiritual one. A part of me says that to receive the blessings, the donor has to make the conscious decision to donate each time. It's a matter of the task changing the person.

I kinda assumed that's why it hasn't be done already as it would probably increase the amount of tithing paid if members didn't forget. Just my 2¢.

I have heard the same idea expressed by RussellHltn from others as well-- that an important part of paying tithing is the repeated decision and action of filling out of the donation slip and handing over the donation and that therefore the church will not accept tithing electronically. It is true there is something powerful about physical actions with interpersonal interactions and sacrifices. If I remember right, C.S. Lewis contended that the physical act of kneeling is an important act of submission during prayer; that we are _physical_ and spirit creatures and that therefore expressing submission physically was just as important as addressing God with words. Some have suggested that there is power in vocal prayer over mental communication for similar reasons. I think that is an important consideration.

At the same time, we have already transformed from the very physical tithe of the early restoration (bringing a tenth of our harvest or prize pig physically to the storehouse) to handing the bishop a small envelope containing a clutch of paper-bills, and from there to a single paper check. Is our tithe less meaningful now because we don't physically deliver a tenth of our chicken's eggs to the storehouse? Perhaps.

But I think that the principle is that we return to the Lord one tenth of our increase so that his servants can use it to build up the Kingdom. However the Church sees fit to accept that tithe is acceptable.

I know of one couple that uses the online bill pay feature with their credit union to send a tithing check payable to Church to their home address. The check arrives at their home in a few days, and they take it, and put it in a donation envelope, take it to church and hand it to the bishopric.

While an online electronic way of paying tithing would be very convenient and help me with budgeting, I am happy with whichever way the church decides is best for us spiritually and for the church financially.

I have had this question asked several times while serving as bishop of our ward... One workaround for this would be to have the people use tools found at banks and credit unions - called BillPay... They can set it up to have a check written out to their ward/branch and the address to deliver the check can be to their own home, when they receive the check they can place it in the donation envelope and specify where they want the funds allocated (tithing, fast offering, PEF, etc.)

This is not exactly EFT... But it is an option for the wired people of the new century!

I guess as I read my former post that it's not all that clear. YES the church has this functionality already. It is available and easy to setup. The link in my previous post will take you to documents needed to fill out to setup this process, or you can call the contact information at the bottom of the post to start using this functionality.

I do see one side issue here as well, and that is the fees that are taken out of the donation by the bank or other issuing institution.

For example, a merchant who takes a card at the grocery store is charged a fee, usually a percentage of the transaction. That fee varies based on the volume of sales the merchant does. But it's always not less than a few percent and it could be more, much more depending on the card or card type used.

So some money, even if just a small percentage, that the member thinks would be going to the Church is easily going to wind up in the hands of his/her bank instead.

JamesAnderson wrote: I do see one side issue here as well, and that is the fees that are taken out of the donation by the bank or other issuing institution.

For example, a merchant who takes a card at the grocery store is charged a fee, usually a percentage of the transaction. That fee varies based on the volume of sales the merchant does. But it's always not less than a few percent and it could be more, much more depending on the card or card type used.

So some money, even if just a small percentage, that the member thinks would be going to the Church is easily going to wind up in the hands of his/her bank instead.

The Bill Pay services will transfer the amount specified in full to the payee. Now they might charge the account holder extra for the use of their transfer system. But some banks even offer this service for free to their users. From the forms I saw, any fee is completely based on the institution that you are using and the church recieves in full the amount you send.

JamesAnderson wrote:I do see one side issue here as well, and that is the fees that are taken out of the donation by the bank or other issuing institution.

For example, a merchant who takes a card at the grocery store is charged a fee, usually a percentage of the transaction. That fee varies based on the volume of sales the merchant does. But it's always not less than a few percent and it could be more, much more depending on the card or card type used.

So some money, even if just a small percentage, that the member thinks would be going to the Church is easily going to wind up in the hands of his/her bank instead.

If you are being charged a fee for online banking, change banks, there are plenty out there that included it for free.

Fast offering and tithing donations go to the church not the ward. They are "swepped" each week from the wards to the church general funds. That might be an over simplification but the intent is the same. The money the bishop might use for welfare is taken from church funds not ward or stake that don't exist. So it makes little difference whether you pay the money directly to headquarters. However, paying fast directly removes the need for the Deacons to come to your home to collect. You might want to continue to provide this opportunity for them to serve.

Will the Bishop have a record of tithing paid directly to headquarters?

Please be careful in discussing methods of paying tithing. The methods of paying your tithes and offerings is something that should be discussed between you and your ecclesiastical leaders. I fear that we are straying from a technology discussion to a permission or policy discussion which these forums are not prepared for or designed to accept.

Tom

tomw wrote:Please be careful in discussing methods of paying tithing. The methods of paying your tithes and offerings is something that should be discussed between you and your ecclesiastical leaders. I fear that we are straying from a technology discussion to a permission or policy discussion which these forums are not prepared for or designed to accept.

Tom

Tom, I respect your position on this but don't understand it. Local Bishops (our ecclesiastical leaders) will have no idea how to pay tithing electronically.

Please explain further your concern...

Ted wrote:Tom, I respect your position on this but don't understand it. Local Bishops (our ecclesiastical leaders) will have no idea how to pay tithing electronically.

Please explain further your concern...

Your leaders will have handbooks and resources at the Stake level and at the Church HQ level that they can use to find the information that you request. I want to keep the discussions focused on technology. I know that this discussion started with technology but I fear that people may feel that the Church is endorsing a particular process or method of paying tithes. For example, questions arise on if the Bishop will have records of the tithing. This will lead to other questions with get us further off topic.

Thanks for your input.

Tom

I realize that my earlier post in this thread probably violates the proscription on "religious discussion" put forth in the new Code of Conduct. I'm sorry if I have contributed to the problem. Feel free to delete my previous comment. Thanks.

Ted wrote:Will the Bishop have a record of tithing paid directly to headquarters?

Just so this thought is completed, the church sends to the individual, just like the ward would, the record of donations, first for tithing settlement and then for Tax Purposes.

For additional information, see here http://www.lds.org/ldsfoundation/ways/d ... -1,00.html

E-payment for tithing and fast offering is a reality in wards around Australia.
Thanks for our local Church admin office, we have been able to do so for the past 6 months or so. It is easy and convenient for members and means the bishop/clerks are able to do the financial work much faster each Sunday.
We use an online system called BPay ( http://www.bpay.com.au ). We have a customer reference number and each donation category has a unique biller code (to make sure tithing goes to tithing, etc).
I print a receipt of each transaction to help me at Tithing Settlement time.
Not sure if the Church pays a fee for registering with BPay but my financial institution does not charge me any fees. (I use it to pay as many bills online as I can).
It works great! And I still get the promised blessing for paying tithes and a generous fast offering!

My parents are currently overseas with my dad's job. They have to mail their tithing checks to the States because the Church is not allowed to have any ward bank account over there and barely be an organized religion. I've personally had no need for anything like this, though it would be convenient. However, my parents are practically begging for something like this. It just would be so much faster and more secure to have their tithing paid electronically from their American bank account(s).

I've seen the Yahoo groups link, but I'm not sure I want to create an account nor join the group just to get the info. Can somebody else make an enrollment form or instructions available? Does this conversation need to be had with a local ecclesiastical leader?

Thanks in advance.

Ah, the ability to reply to a closed thread

mkmurray wrote:Can somebody else make an enrollment form or instructions available?

RussellHltn wrote:Ah, the ability to reply to a closed thread

LOL, yeah I forgot it was closed. With my parents' situation, I looked at this conversation in a different light. At least now anyone can read this and make their own decision and use this paperwork to get started if they desire.

Thanks again.