LDS tools Android production version

This might not be the forum to post this in. I couldn't find a forum for the LDS tools software.

I would like to see the latest production version of LDS Tools posted on this website somewhere. I have an eReader running on the Android operating system, BUT it cannot access the android market. I can download and install .apk files from a "http://" website, but not a "market:// site". I have downloaded the beta version (pre-release 1.0) from this site, but it is having sync issues, and I would like to try the production version.

Someone was very helpful and posted the .apk of the gospel library production version. Thank you. Please also post the production version (1.02 or newer) as well, Thanks.

The production version of LDS Tools is posted on the main LDS Tools for Android wiki site at https://tech.lds.org/wiki/LDS_Tools_for_Android. We will work to keep this updated with future releases.

Thanks for pointing out this link. I would just like to echo the request that the apk's continue to made available OUTSIDE the Google Android Market. There are many "grey market" android devices out there (like my B&N Nook Color) and the Market is not always available.

Does anyone know if this app will allow leaders (bishoprics) to see more detailed info like MRN's like they can in the online portal?

elderlarryhawkes wrote:Does anyone know if this app will allow leaders (bishoprics) to see more detailed info like MRN's like they can in the online portal?

There is a project, not yet completely defined, to expand LDS Tools into an app to serve leaders, similar to the historical Ward Tools product. Access to the more confidential data elements and functionality would be authenticated and controlled by LDS Account login according to calling. Whether this expanded online API will include the MRN specifically is not yet known. Presumably that would depend on whether the online API is considered sufficiently secure and controlled-- moreso than the MLS export files that recently had the MRN removed.

Thanks for the reply. I really hope they do that with this app. I guess that the main difference between the app and the online portal for leaders is that the app does a sync and the data is stored on the device and the portal is just an online view only if I understand what I read about the app right.

The other thing they may want to think about if they are trying to get the security of MRN's under control is the fact that you can still print a directory from MLS that includes MRN's. And it's not just paper copies you can print to. You can just as easily print to a PDF file and then put that file on just about anything now days.

At any rate leaders need quick access to all member info without always having to go to the MLS computer at the ward. The leader portal gives you access, but it is definitely not quick especially on Sundays for some reason. The ward MLS computer is heavily used on Sundays too so that tends to create some competition for its use.

elderlarryhawkes wrote:At any rate leaders need quick access to all member info without always having to go to the MLS computer at the ward.

I'm still puzzled by the keen interest in the MRN. One of the few places I know of where it's needed is for temple recommends. But to do temple recommends also requires the recommend book. It would seem to me that simply putting a list of MRNs in the book and updating it once a quarter would fulfill that need. I personally fail to see the need for MRNs in the leadership's pocket. Name and phone numbers, yes. But not MRNs.

If updating it once a quarter seems too slow, then you might want to review the procedure for renewing recommends for members who have been in the ward for less then a year. I think you'll find that it's not a speedy process - and may require returning to the ward computer for other information that is not normally disseminated beyond MLS.

Because MRNs are the key to the LDS Account, which is ever expanding in what it can access, we need to treat it as sensitive information and not have it were it's not absolutely needed.

What am I missing?

RussellHltn wrote:I'm still puzzled by the keen interest in the MRN. One of the few places I know of where it's needed is for temple recommends. But to do temple recommends also requires the recommend book.

The temple recommend interview usually takes place in a room other than the clerk's office. So I could see how a handheld device could be helpful on occasion for new move-ins (but it's certainly a valid point that members in the ward less than a year need special treatment anyway). And you're certainly right that a printout will work for almost all of the cases (and be faster).

RussellHltn wrote: Because MRNs are the key to the LDS Account, which is ever expanding in what it can access, we need to treat it as sensitive information and not have it were it's not absolutely needed.

What am I missing?

"Because MRNs are the key to the LDS Account" With this being mentioned, How do members get their MRN to create an account or reset their account (people even forget there email accounts). this all requires getting with a leader in the ward who has access to MRN's.

There are very few systems that people create an account for requires them to get a piece of information from someone else to create or reset the account. As we encourage members to use the church website on one hand but don't have the information they need at the tips of our fingers when they need it, they just won't bother. Because of this setup, we are their first line helpdesk so to speak. If we have to tell them we will have to get back with them after we get the MRN they need, they will feel they are are just bothering us. If we can help them right on the spot and make them feel glad that they called, they will be more inclined to use the church website as a valuable tool.

In today's world of electronic media, we find it easier and faster to also have this information available on a hand held device even for Temple recommend interviews. It is easier and faster to verify and write the MRN on the recommend from the hand held than looking back and forth between pages in the recommend book or taking the pages out of the book so you can look and write the number to ensure it is accurate. I will agree this can work both ways and there is some personal preference involved, but we prefer and have found a hand held to be easier and faster to be accurate.

elderlarryhawkes wrote:"Because MRNs are the key to the LDS Account" With this being mentioned, How do members get their MRN to create an account or reset their account (people even forget there email accounts). this all requires getting with a leader in the ward who has access to MRN's.

Not really. Everyone who has a temple recommend has their MRN on their recommend. And every member who attends tithing settlement should have received an Individual Ordinance Summary for review, which also has the MRN on it.

elderlarryhawkes wrote:There are very few systems that people create an account for requires them to get a piece of information from someone else to create or reset the account.

Actually, that's extremely common in the world of employment. Access to internal systems often requires an employee ID of some kind, which is issued by the company to the individual. That is fairly analogous to what the Church does.

elderlarryhawkes wrote:There are very few systems that people create an account for requires them to get a piece of information from someone else to create or reset the account. As we encourage members to use the church website on one hand but don't have the information they need at the tips of our fingers when they need it, they just won't bother. Because of this setup, we are their first line helpdesk so to speak. If we have to tell them we will have to get back with them after we get the MRN they need, they will feel they are are just bothering us. If we can help them right on the spot and make them feel glad that they called, they will be more inclined to use the church website as a valuable tool.

I'll certainly agree with that. Anything we can do to make it easier for people to feel comfortable registering for and using the Church's online systems is a good thing. So providing leaders and clerks with a variety of ways of obtaining the information needed to assist members with this process is indeed helpful.

Of course, that all has to be balanced with the Church's security concerns, as well as its limited development resources.

elderlarryhawkes wrote:In today's world of electronic media, we find it easier and faster to also have this information available on a hand held device even for Temple recommend interviews. It is easier and faster to verify and write the MRN on the recommend from the hand held than looking back and forth between pages in the recommend book or taking the pages out of the book so you can look and write the number to ensure it is accurate. I will agree this can work both ways and there is some personal preference involved, but we prefer and have found a hand held to be easier and faster to be accurate.

There's definitely some preference involved. I guarantee I can write down an MRN faster from a one-page piece of paper than you can look up a member on a handheld and then write down the number. But that assumes that I have the paper and that you have your handheld in hand. As I said before, a variety of ways to get the information is good.

aebrown wrote: There's definitely some preference involved. I guarantee I can write down an MRN faster from a one-page piece of paper than you can look up a member on a handheld and then write down the number. But that assumes that I have the paper and that you have your handheld in hand. As I said before, a variety of ways to get the information is good.

:DI like the guarantee:).
On the other hand, have you found a way to get MLS to print just Names and MRNs all on one page or even just 2 pages. That would really be nice rather than the 12 page list that I could only get MLS to print with MRNs.

elderlarryhawkes wrote::DI like the guarantee:).
On the other hand, have you found a way to get MLS to print just Names and MRNs all on one page or even just 2 pages. That would really be nice rather than the 12 page list that I could only get MLS to print with MRNs.

I generated a custom report with names and MRNs, then copied the results to a spreadsheet, where I could put three columns per page in a small but reasonable font. Some wards fit on one page, and others may take front and back, but it can be done pretty compactly.

aebrown wrote:I generated a custom report with names and MRNs, then copied the results to a spreadsheet, where I could put three columns per page in a small but reasonable font. Some wards fit on one page, and others may take front and back, but it can be done pretty compactly.

From a practical standpoint I'm glad that all the workarounds to export MRNs have not yet been shut down. But I fail to see how such a custom report exported to a spreadsheet is inherently more secure than just including the MRN in the complete export file Membership.csv, which at least requires Administrator privilege to generate in MLS. If the security rationale is to keep the exported MRN out of portable export CSV files possesed by leaders and clerks, I should think that same rationale might constrain such custom reports, too. This may just be a hole that hasn't been closed yet, but will be.

aebrown wrote:I generated a custom report with names and MRNs, then copied the results to a spreadsheet, where I could put three columns per page in a small but reasonable font. Some wards fit on one page, and others may take front and back, but it can be done pretty compactly.

Thanks, I will give that a try. And you know I can't help asking if there is a guarantee that this is faster too.

RossEvans wrote:From a practical standpoint I'm glad that all the workarounds to export MRNs have not yet been shut down. But I fail to see how such a custom report exported to a spreadsheet is inherently more secure than just including the MRN in the complete export file Membership.csv, which at least requires Administrator privilege to generate in MLS. If the security rationale is to keep the exported MRN out of portable export CSV files possesed by leaders and clerks, I should think that same rationale might constrain such custom reports, too. This may just be a hole that hasn't been closed yet, but will be.

Custom reports that include the MRN cannot be run by users with only organizational rights -- you have to have at least View Membership rights in order to run such a report.

aebrown wrote:Actually, that's extremely common in the world of employment. Access to internal systems often requires an employee ID of some kind, which is issued by the company to the individual. That is fairly analogous to what the Church does.

Thank you, I was trying to come up with a business world analogy. You wouldn't expect to walk up to a HR manager in the hallway and ask "what's my employee number" and get an immediate answer. It's far more likely you'll hear "It's in the computer - I'll have to look it up when I'm at my desk."

Can anyone come up with a business world analogy of what's being requested - sensitive information stored in a smart phone?

aebrown wrote:Custom reports that include the MRN cannot be run by users with only organizational rights -- you have to have at least View Membership rights in order to run such a report.

Yes, I know. But that is still a lower level of privilege than is required to export Membership.csv. IIRC, the MLS user executing the Membership.csv export must have rights to view temple-recommend data. Further, if that user is not an Administrator, he must get an Administrator to countersign the export. Since this elevated level of privilege apparently is now deemed too low to regulate the export of MRNs in the Membership.csv file, it seems that to be consistent with this principle a greater level of privilege, not a lower one, would also be needed for other MRN exports. (Note the the new restriction is not on who can view the MRN, but on whether it can be exported tp a file.) So it may be that the continued permitting of exported MRNs from a custom report is just a hole that has not yet been closed.

RussellHltn wrote:Thank you, I was trying to come up with a business world analogy. You wouldn't expect to walk up to a HR manager in the hallway and ask "what's my employee number" and get an immediate answer. It's far more likely you'll hear "It's in the computer - I'll have to look it up when I'm at my desk."

Can anyone come up with a business world analogy of what's being requested - sensitive information stored in a smart phone?

Is there a policy that says we are not supposed to keep a printed paper document with us that has MRNs on it? Since a paper document is still easily generated and possibly converted to a spread sheet or PDF as mentioned, what's the difference?

elderlarryhawkes wrote:Is there a policy that says we are not supposed to keep a printed paper document with us that has MRNs on it?

I know of no such policy. The closest I know is that such information is not to lie around the office unsecured.

elderlarryhawkes wrote:Since a paper document is still easily generated and possibly converted to a spread sheet or PDF as mentioned, what's the difference?

It seems to me that on a grand scale, the likelihood of such a document being created and lost is lower then the probably of a member of the bishopric losing their smart phone. Policy tends to plug the big holes and not every possible hole.

elderlarryhawkes wrote:Is there a policy that says we are not supposed to keep a printed paper document with us that has MRNs on it? Since a paper document is still easily generated and possibly converted to a spread sheet or PDF as mentioned, what's the difference?

The policy is that membership record information is to be kept confidential.

Personally, I am still struggling to understand why someone generally would need to have this list and carry it around. For the average member, the MRN is not even needed to set up an LDSAccount, or to retrieve a lost password.

The only time I can think of that the MRN is needed is when a temple recommend is issued for the first time, and when renewed for those one or three TRs still floating around in our stake with the wrong MRN on them.

Other than that, I think the information should be protected.

In other countries, criminal laws are involved. In the U.S., we are still catching up to that standard.

lajackson wrote: For the average member, the MRN is not even needed to set up an LDSAccount, or to retrieve a lost password.

What is the method to create an LDS account without the MRN, and how to recreate the LDS account if the member forgets both their LDS account info and email account info?

elderlarryhawkes wrote:

lajackson wrote:For the average member, the MRN is not even needed to set up an LDSAccount, or to retrieve a lost password.

What is the method to create an LDS account without the MRN, and how to recreate the LDS account if the member forgets both their LDS account info and email account info?

To set up an LDS Account the MRN and birthday are needed for a member. Otherwise the LDS Account registration would be for a non-member. If the LDS Account is a non-member registration then they would not have access to websites that require member registration.

A member would need to know the e-mail address they used to register with LDS Account to recover a forgotten username. They would need their LDS Account username to reset their password if that was forgotten. For more complex situations they would need to contact the LDS Account support team to get it resolved.

lajackson wrote:the MRN is not even needed to set up an LDSAccount

We must be looking at different screens. It appears the MRN is needed to set up the account, but not to retrieve lost user names or passwords.

RussellHltn wrote:We must be looking at different screens. It appears the MRN is needed to set up the account, but not to retrieve lost user names or passwords.

My apologies. I am having browser behind a firewall at work issues.

Yes, the members needs their MRN. So have them look at their temple recommend, or give them an IOS. They already know their birthdate.

If they forget their password and remember their login, I think they still need their confirmation date, rather than their birthdate, to get into the system and reset their password. So the IOS gets them their confirmation date, as well.

Still, I don't see a compelling need to walk around with a list of MRNs for the ward. Perhaps if you are having a "sign up for LDSAccount" drive or something. Even then, I think I would just hand out the IOS.

RussellHltn wrote:We must be looking at different screens. It appears the MRN is needed to set up the account, but not to retrieve lost user names or passwords.

We have already had some users who have forgotten there email account information too. So if you click on Forgot your user name, there is also a box to check that says don't have or forgot email address. Then it asks if you are a member and then it asks for your MRN again.

Getting back to elderlarryhawkes' original question above about the future of LDS Tools, I think it is still possible that when the LDS Tools app is expanded for leadership functionality, the online API will be sufficiently locked down so that the MRN can be available to authenticated leaders. While we can all second-guess about how much leaders really need this data, the Church has already granted them the priviliege of viewing it in several ways, including a browser authenticated by online LDS Account login. I agree with aebrown that multiple ways to view the information are desirable, I believe ward and stake leaders who say they find this functionality useful, and I think it can be done securely.

The only recent steps I am aware of to restrict the MRN have to do with capturing export files: The MRN has been removed from the MLS Membership.csv file, and from the geocoded membership file downloadable from the maps website. So I am assuming that batch exports are what are considered too risky -- either in theory or because there may have actually been careless abuses. That problem would not really obtain in a locked-down LDS Tools app that did not allow export of that data. Locking down such an API is difficult to do perfectly, but I think it can be done sufficiently to enforce an articulated policy on priesthood leaders who are the users of such apps. Bishops and stake presidents are hardly likely to hack the API deliberately, or run rogue apps that are prohibited clearly by policy.

RossEvans wrote:I think it is still possible that when the LDS Tools app is expanded for leadership functionality, the online API will be sufficiently locked down so that the MRN can be available to authenticated leaders.

Possible. But that decision will be made at a level far above the paygrade of anyone in the forum.

elderlarryhawkes wrote:What is the method to create an LDS account without the MRN, and how to recreate the LDS account if the member forgets both their LDS account info and email account info?

I went through this on Sunday with someone who needed access to new FamilySearch. We had the MRN and birth date and nothing else.

Given that information, we were able to determine the LDS Account user ID, determine the email address associated with that ID (which he no longer had access to), change the email address to a different address, and reset the LDS Account password. I don't know if an email went to the old email address as a notification that the email address had changed, since he didn't have access to the old address.

I walked out with a much clear understanding that an MRN and birth date gives me full access to your LDS Account. I definitely consider it sensitive now.

Ward tools app gave me that information when you export the memberships from mls you have to have certain access right to even get the files to export. Put the mrn back in the exports we have been taught correct principles now let us govern ourselves. I can see them when I use my sign on to lds.org but sometimes we have areas without wifi so I can't get to the site. You don't want to know how many temple recommends that I try and activate that have the wrong mrn numbers. I am not always at the stake center to access the mls system to get the mrn numbers to fix issues for members. I truly understand the security issues I do, but having to run all over to do my calling is not fun either.. Just my two cents worth.

thor0128 wrote:Ward tools app gave me that information when you export the memberships from mls you have to have certain access right to even get the files to export. Put the mrn back in the exports we have been taught correct principles now let us govern ourselves. I can see them when I use my sign on to lds.org but sometimes we have areas without wifi so I can't get to the site. You don't want to know how many temple recommends that I try and activate that have the wrong mrn numbers. I am not always at the stake center to access the mls system to get the mrn numbers to fix issues for members. I truly understand the security issues I do, but having to run all over to do my calling is not fun either.. Just my two cents worth.

But you can look up members by name on the online Temple Entry System. Especially if you have wrong MRNs on the recommend, that seems like an argument for using the Search By Name feature -- then you can verify the MRN (since it is displayed when you do Search By Name).

So I fail to see how this is an argument for putting the MRN back in the exports.

aebrown wrote:I generated a custom report with names and MRNs, then copied the results to a spreadsheet, where I could put three columns per page in a small but reasonable font. Some wards fit on one page, and others may take front and back, but it can be done pretty compactly.

I gave this a try tonight and it worked fairly easily. I exported and attached the custom report file (the file that contains format for the custom report) that can be used to import into the custom reports on MLS if you want to test it and see an example of a custom report with some basic info and MRNs. You can then adjust the format of the report in MLS to your liking.
You will need to change the extension on this attached file from .txt to .mls after you download it and before you import it into the custom reports. After that, open MLS and go the the reports and then custom reports and then click on import at the bottom left of the screen.
Once imported you can then open the report and then instead of printing the report, use the save to file button. You can then open that new file into a spreadsheet and then use the spreadsheet as needed.

This method is not nearly as nice as WardTools or other 3rd party options that used the MLS export function, but it's still fast and at your fingertips.

elderlarryhawkes wrote:I gave this a try tonight and it worked fairly easily. I exported and attached the custom report file (the file that contains format for the custom report) that can be used to import into the custom reports on MLS if you want to test it and see an example of a custom report with some basic info and MRNs. ...

This method is not nearly as nice as WardTools or other 3rd party options that used the MLS export function, but it's still fast and at your fingertips.

One could even take that one step further. Technically it would be quite easy to write a script that would run on any clerk's machine (or other Windows box) without installing any new software, that could merge the MRNs from a custom MLS report back into Membership.csv. But I think it would be folly to publish such a script because this hole is bound to be closed once the policymakers realize that their intent was incompletely implemented. Better to respect that intent, I think, and focus on a more secure method of including this data element in LDS Tools someday.

The link provided on the page listed below says it is LDS Tools, but you will download Gospel Library when you click on it.

jasonhyer wrote:The production version of LDS Tools is posted on the main LDS Tools for Android wiki site at https://tech.lds.org/wiki/LDS_Tools_for_Android. We will work to keep this updated with future releases.

I tried to download the LDS tools from the page below, but I got Gospel Library instead. Please fix the link so that you download LDS Tools. Thank you.

jasonhyer wrote:The production version of LDS Tools is posted on the main LDS Tools for Android wiki site at https://tech.lds.org/wiki/LDS_Tools_for_Android. We will work to keep this updated with future releases.

The link to LDS Tools on the wiki has been fixed and points to the current production version of LDS Tools.

The link is not working currently.