Donations through Billpay

By sending an email to donations@ldschurch.org, I got set up to make tithing and fast offering donations through my banks billpay feature.

There were forms to fill out, and instructions on how to enter the information into the banks website.

I use this, and I'm sure there are others who might enjoy using this as well. (Quick, no check involved for me or my ward, and I assume anonymous.)

I state this, because I noted that the wiki sections on "Donations by bill payment service" and "Donations to Church Headquarters" don't mention this.

Is this because the church doesn't want a lot of people doing this, or is it new (I started only recently,) or some other reason?

I didn't feel my writing and knowledge were good enough to start editing wiki's without some discussion.

Thanks for your time.

Is it a true "online" payment? That is, you you actually pay electronically to the church?

The way my bank's billpay (and I believe most bank's as well) is that although you don't cut a check, a physical check *is* cut and sent in the mail. The physical check, which does not include any of your own bank information, simply says "for your customer's account" in a note area, and is mailed to the Bishop. Which leads me to my second question: Are you paying directly to CHQ, or does the information you input include your Bishop's address?

wrpdmd wrote:Is this because the church doesn't want a lot of people doing this, or is it new (I started only recently,) or some other reason?

The Church is not set up to handle BillPay directly to CHQ (electronically) on any significant scale, so this is not an option for regular members for convenience. It is reserved for those (such as perhaps members in the military overseas) who don't have other reasonable ways to make donations. I get the impression that the nice people at the Donations Department have a hard time saying no to people, but I've been assured by managers there that they really can't handle large numbers of BillPay donors at this point.

But there are indications that a different way of doing this will be available in the future, so just be patient.

It is good to know about this option.

I can think of two examples other than the one aebrown mentioned.
1) If your donations are large. For example do you think that the very wealthy want to donate to their local ward? How would the assistant clerk over finances handle the regular (monthly) tithing check that is coming from one of his ward members that amounts to his annual salary? There is great temptation there. What I mean is what if the asst. clerk has an annual salary of 100k and he processes a check each month from member X that is 300k. How does he handle this? How long did it take you to calculate how much member X must be earning a year to donate that much? Then how tempting would it be to tell his wife or best friend what member X is making a year? This and other tempations are easily avoided if member X donates directly to the CHQ.
2) I have known people who don’t trust their ward clerks, for various reasons. But a couple of them have been the victim of gossip and the whole ward knowing how much they donate and they don’t make any more that others in their ward. You might think that is a one off experience but I have seen people walk up and congratulate someone in the hall at church for a bonus and raise that they had told no one about. The only way that information could have gotten out was if the clerk noticed the donation and talked about it.

So there are good reasons to donate directly to CHQ but I would think the number of people who do this is small. With the prevelance of online banking growing I would expect that there will be enough pressure that there will be a system in place before long.

I know in our ward we get bank checks from people every week. They are donating directly from an online bank or bill pay system. I started doing it after I became ward clerk just so see how it worked. We have even had some people send themselves checks from online bill pay then donate them like other checks. So there are several ways to make this work. Some are just more convenient than others.

Curtis

imcurtis wrote:It is good to know about this option.

In either of the situations you mentioned, the clerk would not be functioning as a clerk the following week around here if he was not able to keep confidential information confidential.

Nevertheless, we have been reminded by CHQ that each donation is manually processed and they are not staffed to handle electronic donations from the general membership.

Many have suggested that those using a bank bill pay service write the check to the ward and mail it to themselves (preferred, in my opinion) or the bishop, and then the clerks deposit it using the normal procedures.

I am also aware that in many countries personal checks no longer exist, and members must contribute electronically.

I personally believe it will not be long before systems will be in place where that will be possible in the US. In the meantime, I write one check a month -- to the ward. Within a few months, my bank account will no longer allow the writing of checks, and at that point, if they do nothing sooner, CHQ will have one more donation to process manually on a regular basis.

Yes, clerks can be released but the damage is done.

Most banks that stop allowing personal checks have a means to send a check to a non-electronic vendor. So just set your bishop of as a vendor and send your checks to him. To make it easy on the clerks send each donation seperate and make sure to note the category. So sent a check (payment) for tithing with tithing in the memo then another check for fast offering with fast in the memo, and so on. That way when the clerk opens the envelope the check will tell him how to classify the donation. Different checks insure the categories are kept seperate. Combining them will work but you have to have the same guys counting. If you have the one guy that doesn't count that often the whole check might end up in tithing.

Curtis

imcurtis wrote:So just set your bishop of as a vendor and send your checks to him. To make it easy on the clerks send each donation seperate and make sure to note the category.

Or, just have it mailed to yourself and you turn it in with a donation slip just like everyone else.

Yes, clerks can be released but the damage is done.

Is clerk come from Mars or was he known before his calling? Who make that call?
This kind of argumentation leed easily to try to find out a way to "prevent mistakes", and this is not a Gospel way!
I'll support better a bad reputation once in a while than an ever untrust to my leaders. (What to say to HT or VT? Personal interview, ecc., or only money MUST be "secret"?).

imcurtis wrote:So there are good reasons to donate directly to CHQ but I would think the number of people who do this is small. With the prevelance of online banking growing I would expect that there will be enough pressure that there will be a system in place before long.

There are already other methods for donating directly to CHQ for those exceptional circumstances that do not use a BillPay mechanism. See the wiki article Donations to Church Headquarters.

As for the BillPay donations, it's not a matter of "enough pressure." Believe me, the Donations Department feels the pressure. The efforts are well underway to get the new system in place. But there are a lot of pieces to the puzzle. The new CUBS system was one step along the way, but there are other elements still to be developed. So again, please be patient. Nothing anyone can do at this point in terms of pressure will speed up the process. It is indeed a priority.

Did you think that that system wil bee world wide worthing? Just curious to know if this will change our actual practice.

So in the experience of others here, a financial clerk/bishop would likely be okay receiving an envelope directly from the bank with separate checks for tithing/FO/mission fund and the member not submitting a donation form?

My recollection from when I was a finan clerk was that we needed a donation form, and if one was not provided by the member then we had to create one. That would be a pain. I'd LOVE to send donations directly to the ward, but am assuming that it creates more work for the clerk.

tortdog wrote:So in the experience of others here, a financial clerk/bishop would likely be okay receiving an envelope directly from the bank with separate checks for tithing/FO/mission fund and the member not submitting a donation form?

My recollection from when I was a finan clerk was that we needed a donation form, and if one was not provided by the member then we had to create one. That would be a pain. I'd LOVE to send donations directly to the ward, but am assuming that it creates more work for the clerk.

This topic was discussed at some length in the thread Donations Received via Bill Payer Service. You'll see there that different wards have different answers for your question. Some clerks are happy to fill out a donation slip; others require donors to submit it ahead of time.

I may be looking at this differently but as a bishop when I have received an EFT check mailed to my home, I have handed it back to the member and asked them to fill out the donation slip and to change the address it was mailed too, to be their home so they can continue to fill it out. I think this is still a good way of getting it paid first in the month and having to think about it less.

I have a two reasons why I think this is best:
1) The member should be the one filling out the donation slip
2) Clerks and Counselors have enough to do when counting
Think about half the ward or more doing this and asking the clerk and counselor to fill out the donation slip.

With funds going directly to CHQ I also have a concern.
1) There are some members I would not be comfortable with them simply telling me they were full tithe payers and my not having any accounting of what has been paid.

There would need to be some tie to a membership number and therefore the ward with true EFT to CHQ so that then the bishop could run a report to get those numbers. This would eliminate earlier concerns of larger donations and confidentiality.

Just my feelings on the topic.
Troy

With funds going directly to CHQ I also have a concern.
1) There are some members I would not be comfortable with them simply telling me they were full tithe payers and my not having any accounting of what has been paid.

Help me understand... Why is tithing any different than other principles of the gospel, TR questions are trust-related, mostly the individual self-certifying that what they are saying is true. Only when prompted would a leader challenge a member on this point, and a loving conversation would ensue.

I feel very unconfortable with the idea that the quote seemed to indicate... just my own 2 cents.

JohnShaw wrote:Help me understand...

You have heard from a bishop with actual experience who knows his members well. Note that he said "some members", and I suspect, from my own personal experience, that there are very few. But I have had members look me in the eye during temple recommend interviews and tell me they were full tithe payers, when the truth was that they had never paid a dime.

In the meantime, I am excited that CHQ is working on a way to pay electronically. We discussed this with a visiting general authority not too long ago. He is from another country. When he moved to Salt Lake, he asked his bishop for the electronic contribution information for his ward. The bishop asked him to send his tithing by check. He had never had a checking account before in his life. In his home country they do not use checks, and they paid all of their donations electronically through bank transfers.

Reading between the lines, it sounds as if this will become a possibility in the US in the not too distant future. I certainly hope so.

And as Alan says, patience.

SheffieldTR wrote:
With funds going directly to CHQ I also have a concern.
1) There are some members I would not be comfortable with them simply telling me they were full tithe payers and my not having any accounting of what has been paid.

Troy

I understand that; but that does already happen when stock or other like items are donated directly to CHQ.

I suppose one difference is that most people don't pay all their tithing through stock!

For personal reasons, I think the ability of people to donate without the local unit knowing is needed.

wrpdmd wrote:I understand that; but that does already happen when stock or other like items are donated directly to CHQ.

I suppose one difference is that most people don't pay all their tithing through stock!

For personal reasons, I think the ability of people to donate without the local unit knowing is needed.

I knew by the nature of the forum that some would not like what I said. That's fine.

But there is a HUGE difference between TITHING and OTHER donations! One is bound by covenant (that must be accounted for to the proper ordained authority) and the other is bound by conscience and ability. I'll say it again, HUGE difference! Let other donations go to CHQ, unless they are for the ward mission fund. But if Tithing goes there then give the bishop the ability to review it.

I'm sure that we are off far beyond the purpose of this forum, but how is a Bishop to "review" the tithing of a person when he doesn't even ask how much "income" the person has? That's not a "review," that's a guess, if anything. Beyond that, would the Bishop do follow ups when in response to his question on whether the amount on the statement represents a full tithe and the member says, "No. I gave some amounts via e-pay/contributions to SLC at well." Does the Bishop then have the right to ask for a production of a report for those contributions as well?

No.

And he doesn't ask to see a list of videos that the member has checked out to determine if he is morally chaste. He doesn't ask to see a list of associations that a member belongs to "review" whether the member associates with organizations that are opposed to the Church.

It is ALL based on trust, with honestly of the member inherent in the priesthood authorities making decisions. Only when the priesthood authorities become aware through outside sources that the member is lying does a "review" enter into the equation. And even then, it doesn't matter if the member lies to the Bishop and the Bishop knows about it. The Bishop can't fix a liar, and the liar gets no blessings anyway. Disciplinary proceedings lack any value (absent public figure situations) when a "bad" member lies about his sins and refuses to accept responsibility for the wrong doing. Discipline is focused on repentance, and if the person refuses to accept responsibility there is not basis to proceed.

It's all about internal honesty, not about "bishop review".

Just my view.

Moderator caution: Before anyone posts to this thread to continue the comments afforded in the past few posts, please remember two things. The first is the topic of this thread as identified in the lead post. The second is that we do not discuss policy matters that are best discussed with local leaders (see the forum Code of Conduct).

I was kind of expecting that . . .

We have been doing this but no statements. but haven't gotten any statements from SLC.

When I was Financial clerk in another ward, we had a Professional Football player in that ward as well as the Bishop had a very well paying job with a Tech Company and I never saw a donation of any kind from either, and the football player was Elders Quorum President. I asked the Bishop the first year he was Bishop about that and he said that he paid his tithing with stock directly through CHQ. I never did ask the football player. Defensive Lineman.

My experience.

waynecooke wrote:I never did ask the football player. Defensive Lineman.

Great reason!

I've donated stock to the church towards tithing on several occasions. It has some perks, such as avoiding capital gains tax, but I always make sure all Fast Offering or Ward Missionary donations are contributed directly to the ward.

by Mikerowaved »"I've donated stock to the church towards tithing on several occasions. It has some perks, such as avoiding capital gains tax, but I always make sure all Fast Offering or Ward Missionary donations are contributed directly to the ward."

How to do that? don't you need a tax id number for the tithing contribution? how to go about doing that?

marielenaB525 wrote:by Mikerowaved »"I've donated stock to the church towards tithing on several occasions. It has some perks, such as avoiding capital gains tax, but I always make sure all Fast Offering or Ward Missionary donations are contributed directly to the ward."

How to do that? don't you need a tax id number for the tithing contribution? how to go about doing that?

It was quite painless, except it DOES take a bit of processing behind-the-scenes before it becomes effective. My first attempt at doing this was late in December, but the transaction didn't go through until early January. Live and learn I guess.

This link will take you to a page where you will find contact information:

https://tech.lds.org/wiki/Donations_in_kind

They were very helpful with my donations.