Microsoft Office License for MLS computers

I am trying to find an approved method for purchasing and using Microsoft Office 2010 on MLS computers (or at least one MLS computer in the stake clerk's office). I know they have OpenOffice installed on them, but our Stake Presidency and clerks all use and are familiar with Microsoft Office (particularly Excel) and OpenOffice just doesn't have the funcionality or familiarity they need. I did find an article here:
https://tech.lds.org/wiki/index.php/Software
that discourages using budget funds to purchase Microsoft Office, but our MLS computer has had Microsoft Office on it for years (a retail edition the stake presidency purchased), and it is our (very strong) preference to continue to use Microsoft Office. This is all being brought up now because we would like to upgrade to Office 2010. A non-profit license of Office 2010 standard is just over $50, so it's not really that expensive, but is there a recommended method of purchasing the software?

It just so happens that I also work for a division of the church in which I occasionally deal with software licenses using contracts with both CDW and Softchoice. I can purchase through those channels using our department's non-profit 501c certificate, but I don't know if that is appropriate, since we fall under the Corporation of the Presiding Bishopric and not really the ecclesiastical side of things.

I am basically looking for some advice on what the appropriate course of action would be to acquire Office 2010. Our stake presidency is set on using Microsoft Office, but I don't want to purchase a retail edition when we would qualify for a non-profit license.

rolfejr wrote:I did find an article here:
https://tech.lds.org/wiki/index.php/Software
that discourages using budget funds to purchase Microsoft Office

I don't think that is actual policy, but just an encouragement to be frugal. If your stake presidency wants to purchase the software with budget funds, that is their choice.

rolfejr wrote:A non-profit license of Office 2010 standard is just over $50, so it's not really that expensive, but is there a recommended method of purchasing the software?

There is no special method that is recommended. The only requirement is that the software is properly licensed for the unit (no attempts to share a license with an individual). So it's important to be organized and know where the license is.

rolfejr wrote:It just so happens that I also work for a division of the church in which I occasionally deal with software licenses using contracts with both CDW and Softchoice. I can purchase through those channels using our department's non-profit 501c certificate, but I don't know if that is appropriate, since we fall under the Corporation of the Presiding Bishopric and not really the ecclesiastical side of things.

I don't see how it could be appropriate to use your department's 501(c) certificate.

rolfejr wrote:I am basically looking for some advice on what the appropriate course of action would be to acquire Office 2010. Our stake presidency is set on using Microsoft Office, but I don't want to purchase a retail edition when we would qualify for a non-profit license.

I don't know just how this particular non-profit licensing works, but I would think that your stake would qualify for a non-profit license. But I don't think you can expect much help from the Church on the licensing issues, since the Church has a different (free) recommended office suite.

I don't think that is actual policy, but just an encouragement to be frugal. If your stake presidency wants to purchase the software with budget funds, that is their choice.

Thinking that this is a "personal" wish I'll find inappropriate to use "community" found.
I think that Stake President (and who soever "NEED" MSOffice) can buy it and then remove it when he/they will be released.
I don't see any problem in that!

marianomarini wrote:Thinking that this is a "personal" wish I'll find inappropriate to use "community" found.
I think that Stake President (and who soever "NEED" MSOffice) can buy it and then remove it when he/they will be released.
I don't see any problem in that!

The requirement is that the software is licensed to the unit, but there's nothing wrong with accepting a donation of the software by the folks that want it so badly.

However, the leaders also need to realize that as they move on to new units, they're going to run into the same situation.

RussellHltn wrote:The requirement is that the software is licensed to the unit, but there's nothing wrong with accepting a donation of the software by the folks that want it so badly.

However, the leaders also need to realize that as they move on to new units, they're going to run into the same situation.

Why not just do the work at home and send the data around in an email. That is what we do in our stake. We do use OpenOffice for simple stuff, but for the most part a lot of us keep things on our personal computers.

harddrive wrote:Why not just do the work at home and send the data around in an email. That is what we do in our stake. We do use OpenOffice for simple stuff, but for the most part a lot of us keep things on our personal computers.

That works for some documents. But it's impractical for us to do mail merge to labels or to envelopes or to double sided printing at home. We need the power of the stake printer to facilitate those operations, and we need to do them directly from the word processor in the clerk's office.

But each ward and stake needs to work out the flow that works best for them.

rolfejr wrote: I know they have OpenOffice installed on them...

Our old stake policy was that unit computers had only the software specified-
In that way, nobody had to question if any unit was in compliance -Is that version licensed correctly to your unit, or did the elders secretary bring up his own copy from home because he preferred to do his reporting with it? It just eliminated the need for the tech specialist (or anyone else) to ask the question.

Microsoft also has free copies of a web-based version of the office applications online....

Being this a tech forum I let willingly fall the "appropiate" question (use community funds for personal wishes) but I'm still interest in what you can do with MSOffice but with OOffice.org (soon LibreOffice). I used for several years MSO before OO comes forth. Since that time I used OO without any missed funcionality (execpt Access).
So I will appreciate some examples of these "funcionalities" missed into OO rigth now. (Familiarity can be acquired).

marianomarini wrote:Being this a tech forum I let willingly fall the "appropiate" question (use community funds for personal wishes) but I'm still interest in what you can do with MSOffice but with OOffice.org (soon LibreOffice). I used for several years MSO before OO comes forth. Since that time I used OO without any missed funcionality (execpt Access).
So I will appreciate some examples of these "funcionalities" missed into OO rigth now. (Familiarity can be acquired).

There's really no reason for that kind of discussion in this thread (but you're welcome to start such a discussion in another thread). The original post made it clear that the major motivation for the purchase is that the stake presidency and clerks already had familiarity with MSOffice. Anyone who has used both OpenOffice and MSOffice knows that there are significant differences in how you do things in the two systems, even if you can actually get the same work done. Although you are correct that "familiarity can be acquired," that's not necessarily a good use of time for all these leaders and clerks, who have better things to do with their time. It's within policy for the stake to purchase MSOffice, and we're not talking about very much money here, so I see no reason to try to talk that stake presidency out of a very reasonable decision. This thread should stay focused on how to buy the software so that financial and licensing policies are properly observed, which I believe have been addressed.

This thread should stay focused on how to buy the software so that financial and licensing policies are properly observed, which I believe have been addressed.

I agree. I beg your pardon.

aebrown wrote:Anyone who has used both OpenOffice and MSOffice knows that there are significant differences in how you do things in the two systems, even if you can actually get the same work done.

Depending on the versions involved, there are also significant differences between versions of MSOffice. If the leaders are used to a older version, they may be in for a shock at current version.

If one can find a legal copy of an older version, then the cost may be significantly less.

Thank you for all the comments. My next question is on how I would purchase it, and may speak to a more general purchasing question for units. If I want to buy the non-profit, or "charity" license, I am going to have to provide a 501C certificate to prove that we are a non-profit. Is there a church-wide 501C certificate that is available to units that need to demonstrate their non-profit status for purchases like this? Would our stake have our own? I apologize, I'm not the financial clerk, so I don't really know how that all works (actually, our financial clerk has the same questions). Of course, we could just buy the retail version, but we are talking about a pretty significant price difference - $55 for charity license, $250 for retail license (especially when you can consider purchasing for the stake and multiple wards). In addition, I don't really want to start up our own Open License program with Microsoft just for our stake, I was hoping to piggy-back off existing Microsoft relationships the church already has. A couple people have suggested purchasing the academic license (which has actually been done by some wards in the past), but the license agreement for the academic/student version specifically prohibits use by non-profits.

I realize all this would be avoided by just using OpenOffice, but without getting too much into the specifics (a discussion for another thread I supposed), we use Excel extensively both at stake and ward levels, and yes, there are SEVERAL features that just don't work the same (or at all) in OpenOffice. We've tried to stick to OpenOffice before and it has been a huge frustration for a lot of people, most of whom have Excel at home and struggled going between the two products all the time, not to mention the familiarity and learning curve issues.

rolfejr wrote:My next question is on how I would purchase it, and may speak to a more general purchasing question for units. If I want to buy the non-profit, or "charity" license, I am going to have to provide a 501C certificate to prove that we are a non-profit. Is there a church-wide 501C certificate that is available to units that need to demonstrate their non-profit status for purchases like this? Would our stake have our own?

I would think that the Tax Administration department would be your best source. I know that each stake has a federal EIN, but I don't know how that relates to a 501(c) certificate. I've always found the people in Tax Administration to be very helpful and they will be happy to redirect you to the correct department if this topic isn't their responsibility.

Tax Administration
50 East North Temple Street, Room 2223
Salt Lake City, UT 84150-3620
Telephone: 1-801-240-3003 or 1-800-453-3860, extension 2-3003

for the non-profits that are my clients, I suggest that they register with "techsoup". there they can purchase MS software with volume licenses at very cheap prices. $20 per office installation ect. I do not know how this would work in a stake, I have never really looked into that. Also with techsoup, you are limited to one order a year of MS software, so you need to make sure you order everything you need, or wait til next year

clementsms wrote:for the non-profits that are my clients, I suggest that they register with "techsoup". there they can purchase MS software with volume licenses at very cheap prices. $20 per office installation ect. I do not know how this would work in a stake, I have never really looked into that. Also with techsoup, you are limited to one order a year of MS software, so you need to make sure you order everything you need, or wait til next year

Techsoup restricts you to one purchase of MS products (ie: Office, or Windows 7) every 2 years, but you can order additional licenses for your products (up to 50 total) one year after the initial purchase.
However (if I remember correctly), I dont think that the church would qualify to use Techsoup (unless the individual stakes are registered as 501c3 orgs) because Techsoup will not work with organizations who have a budget of over ~$1M/year.

Aaron Z

As far as TechSoup goes, I noticed a few Family History Centers and one stake show up as related organizations when you start the techsoup registration process, I wonder if they successfully registered?

• Honolulu LDS Family History Center
• Oakdale MN Family History Center
• Ogden Regional Family History Center
• Palmyra NY Stake

I started the registration process, but stopped at the qualification/verification process. Here is what techsoup needs in order to verify your organization:

https://www.techsoup.org/stock/download ... orm_US.pdf

Essentially, they need (best to read their PDF, but here is my summary):

• The First Page of your 501(c)(3) determination letter
• If the name of your organization doesn't match the name on the determination letter, they need a letter explaining why and also your contact information.

Anyhow, I'm not sure what to do next. Should I try to contact one of those family history centers or the Palmyra stake to see how they did it? Or just LUS? Or send a message through MLS?

I wonder how we'd go about getting a 501(c)(3) determination letter, or if that is even okay.

Thanks~!

aebrown wrote:I would think that the Tax Administration department would be your best source. I know that each stake has a federal EIN, but I don't know how that relates to a 501(c) certificate. I've always found the people in Tax Administration to be very helpful and they will be happy to redirect you to the correct department if this topic isn't their responsibility.

Tax Administration
50 East North Temple Street, Room 2223
Salt Lake City, UT 84150-3620
Telephone: 1-801-240-3003 or 1-800-453-3860, extension 2-3003

Thanks for this suggestion. I actually finally got around to calling them (kept forgetting during business hours, you know how it is). I spoke with Jeri Close, who said we are perfectly fine using the Corporation of the Presideing Bishopric 501(c) certificate as a stake or ward to validate non-profit status. She was very helpful and emailed it to me in PDF form. I plan to use this to set up a non-profit account for our stake with CDW and order the software. I'll let you know how it goes.

OK, I think I FINALLY have some definitive answers here. The church has a volume license agreement with Microsoft for purchases for headquarters, departments, BYU, etc. They don't want stakes/wards piggybacking off that agreement because it could potentially be a huge cost and maintenance/administration nightmare just to manage the licenses. Hence the encouragement to use Open Office. However, it also costs the church more for stakes/wards to just buy off the shelf when they should be able to buy at charity pricing. So the church also has a separate SELECT agreement with Microsoft that wards and stakes CAN use (with appropriate approval from local leaders of course). Softchoice is the reseller who administers church Microsoft contracts. A stake/ward can set up their own account with Softchoice and make purchases on this SELECT agreement with charity pricing. You have to make an initial purchase of 5 licenses (any qualifying Microsoft license, doesn't have to be Office) to qualify for the program. After that you can make single purchases for up to two years, at which time you would need to buy another 5 licenses to "get back in" to the program. Once you purchase the software Microsoft will send you an authorization code. Using that code you can login to Microsoft's volume licensing site to download software, get license keys, view purchases, etc. Each purchase will generate it's own authorization code, but they can all be associated with one central login to the licensing site.

So I am having Softchoice set up an account for our stake. We will then buy 5 copies of Office standard at $50.71 each (a little more than the cost of ONE off the shelf license!). Of course, you could go with Pro, or just Excel, etc. I have set up a stake login to Microsoft's licensing site where I will associate the purchase. Then when I move on, I can just pass on the login info for our stake for Softchoice and Microsoft to the next guy (a good reason we are using a generic stake gmail address). The stake technology specialist will manage Microsoft purchases (I know we have at least 5 wards who want to purchase Office and are waiting on our advice). We will then handle billing internally, whether the stake will incur the cost or split it out to the wards.

I've seen pretty rampant use of Microsoft Office throughout different wards and stakes - some copies someone just brought from home, sometimes bought off the shelf. Most of the time the current clerk has no idea where their copy of Office came from. This will give us a LEGAL, COST EFFECTIVE, CHURCH-APPROVED, and MANAGEABLE method of dealing with Microsoft Office, so I'm pretty excited about that.

If any one else would like to do this in their stake, the contact at Softchoice is Jon Brune. 1-888-607-7638 x4240. He is very good to work with and can get you set up with an account. I'm not encouraging wards and stakes to run out and abandon OpenOffice if that is working for you, but I AM encouraging you to use Microsoft Office in a legal and cost-effective way if you are already using it or have plans to.

Oh, and you can also buy software assurance (upgrade protection) when you buy your licenses if you choose, but given how often wards/stakes upgrade their hardware/software, I personally don't think it makes financial sense.

Thanks very much for this information!

rolfejr wrote:I know they have OpenOffice installed on them, but our Stake Presidency and clerks all use and are familiar with Microsoft Office (particularly Excel) and OpenOffice just doesn't have the funcionality or familiarity they need.

Sorry to comment on a stale thread, which I just found. As Russell said, familiarity with Office 2003 is irrelevant when discussing Office 2007 or 2010. I use 2003 at home and love it. At work, I am totally confused and confounded by Office 2010. Also, it is my experience that only the clerk, and maybe the executive secretary, create documents on the administrative computer. The presidency just uses their smart phones and tablets.

Dana in Omaha

With the introduction of Win7, there's another factor with older versions of MS Office:

Microsoft Office 2003 and 2007 Microsoft Office system are tested and supported in Windows 7. Microsoft Office XP is approaching the end of its support life cycle. Currently, Office XP is in the Extended Support period of the support life cycle. During this period, only security issues are addressed by updates. All support for Office XP will end on July 12, 2011.

Needless to say, that date has passed.

Our Ward Council and PEC has moved to Google Docs... so the need for locally installed software has dramatically decreased. Usually we download a docs as a PDF to print it (or sometimes printing directly from within Google docs works okay, too)

I am the executive secretary in our ward... And I have personal original copy of Microsoft Office 2007 professional (licensed), I just want to know if the church will approved this kind of Office to be installed in the MLS Computer of Ward.

angelfly wrote:I am the executive secretary in our ward... And I have personal original copy of Microsoft Office 2007 professional (licensed), I just want to know if the church will approved this kind of Office to be installed in the MLS Computer of Ward.

Two things come to mind:

1) Usually those copies that you or I may buy are for "Home" or "Student" use, not for a non-profit use.
2) if the licensing was okay, you'd definitely have to uninstall it from your home computer

I still think that I would caution against doing this. I'm trying to put words to my thoughts but the only thing that I can come up with is that:
* Libre Office is free (or Open Office)
* Google docs has worked wonders for us ("us" being Bishop, Counselors, Exec. Secretary, and Membership clerk) - we just have everything online and we don't have to worry about who has what software installed on their Windows/Mac/Linux computers at home (and yes, we cover all three OS's with different people on different licenses of MS Office... moving to Google docs has helped get over all of this).

nathangg wrote:if the licensing was okay, you'd definitely have to uninstall it from your home computer

To be legal, you'd have to give your license to the ward so they'd have it on file. As stated, you wouldn't be able to continue to use it at home.

But you wouldn't be legally able to give the license to the church if you've used that license to qualify for a upgrade for yourself.

One of the responsibilities of the STS is to insure that all software is properly licensed. So if he found Office installed and the ward could not produce the slip of paper, he'd be obligated to remove it from the computer.

rolfejr wrote:OK, I think I FINALLY have some definitive answers here. ... the church also has a separate SELECT agreement with Microsoft that wards and stakes CAN use (with appropriate approval from local leaders of course). Softchoice is the reseller who administers church Microsoft contracts. A stake/ward can set up their own account with Softchoice and make purchases on this SELECT agreement with charity pricing.

...If any one else would like to do this in their stake, the contact at Softchoice is Jon Brune. 1-888-607-7638 x4240. He is very good to work with and can get you set up with an account. I'm not encouraging wards and stakes to run out and abandon OpenOffice if that is working for you, but I AM encouraging you to use Microsoft Office in a legal and cost-effective way if you are already using it or have plans to.

Has anyone else used this approach since March 2011, when rolfejr posted this? As a recently called STS, this is the first "assignment" I have been tasked with and it sounds like exactly what I need. The new clerk support web pages on lds.org seem to continue to indicate that it is OK to purchase MS Office software, just not encouraged. This sounds like a very reasonable price, but curious if it is still working after a year and a half, and interested in some of the smaller details, for example: Do they mail physical copies of the license certs once purchased, so that they can be kept in the clerk's office as instructed on this page of the clerk support pages?

I have not, but I have it on good authority that the Church is currently working on a license agreement with Microsoft for wards and stakes to purchase it on their own.

As one who was given this task some months ago, I have two pieces of info for anyone who is interested.

1st. there is a very specific version of office that is suitably licensed for charity.

2nd. the easiest way to get that version for 59.00 (Office Standard 2010 for Charity) is simply call ccbnonprofits set up a free net 30 account.

This is how we did it in our Stake, all of our wards have it and its 100 legal. For XP when you set up the volume license it will let you backup to office 2007.

www.ccbnonprofits.com

Toll-Free: 800-342-4222

There, all the leg work is done.
http://www.ccbnonprofit.com

Excellent, thanks.

Did you ever get the Tech Soup account to work? I am trying to do the same thing for our stake and can't find the 2 specific requirements they are asking for that you also listed.