Sacrament Meeting First or Last in Block?

From my general discussions with friends and family members, it seems like most wards in the church have Sacrament Meeting as the first meeting in their 3-hour block on Sundays. The new handbook lists this option first and there seems to be an implied preference for this. (But, of course, Sacrament Meeting is the last meeting of the block in every ward in our stake.)

Questions: Does anyone know what percentage of wards have Sacrament Meeting first throughout the church? Does anyone know if there has been any research about how attendance is affected by having the meeting first or last in the block? If there is such research, what was found? Are there any other advantages to one schedule over another?

Can't answer the questions about research. My personal opinion is that I like Sacrament Meeting first. Mostly because my kids did and now my grandkids do start to get really antsy that third hour. With luck, we can get them to fall asleep. Off hand, I'd say most units in the U.S. probably go with Sacrament first. I haven't been to a lot of meetings overseas but the ones I have gone to did Sacrament last.

all I know is that as a parent of young children, my wife has more chance keeping them interested/amused/quiet having sacrament first rather than last. Once they've been through 2 hours of church, trying to get them to sit still for the last hour is nigh on impossible.

Regarding attendance improvements - people who want to be late, will be late regardless of what time sacrament starts.

It is evident to me that CHQ prefers a sacrament-meeting first schedule. My observation in my own stake (YSA) is that those with sacrament meeting last have better attendance at the start of sacrament meeting. But based on Mormon-standard time, I imagine the same is true almost everywhere.

The schedule of meetings within a stake is generally decided by the Stake Presidency.

GregAnderson wrote:Questions: Does anyone know what percentage of wards have Sacrament Meeting first throughout the church?

No, but since the meeting times are on the public part of LUWS, given enough time (or some scripting), you could compile a list - or at very least a sampling.

We have Sacrament Meeting last, and it's always joked about how we're probably the only stake with this schedule. It's good to know we aren't the only ones.

root wrote:We have Sacrament Meeting last, and it's always joked about how we're probably the only stake with this schedule. It's good to know we aren't the only ones.

My mother's stake in the Salt Lake area has sacrament meeting last, and I attended another ward on a business trip once, but those are the only two I know of. I am sure there are others, since it was the first option in the former Handbook.

When the three-hour schedule began in 1980, our bishopric, being traditionalists, decided that the only way to go was to have sacrament meeting last. We switched the next week, putting it first, and never looked back.

There are things the Primary can do with the children during the 3rd hour that we could never get away with in sacrament meeting. [grin]

The previous Handbook did have the first Sunday schedule labeled 'Plan A' having Sacrament meeting last and now 'Plan 1' has Sacrament meeting first. Having been part of a congregation with local units that have been on both schedules, even having the schedule change in some units I have been a part and experiencing both schedules, my personal preference is having Sacrament meeting last. Having said this and knowing it is the Stake Presidency that decides the Sunday schedule for the Stake units, the Stake Presidency and High Council typically prefers Sacrament Meeting first because their Sunday duties involving attending Ward or Branch unit's Sacrament meetings are completed two hours earlier. Sacrament Meeting was changed to be the first meeting of the block in every unit of our Stake years ago when I was the Stake Finance Clerk.

Also as part of the Sunday meeting schedule coordinating the Senior Primary Sharing Time schedule with Aaronic Priesthood and YW class time. This way the youth that turn 12 will attend their Valiant 11 primary class during Sunday School time and will then go to their Deacons Quorum or Beehive class at the time the rest of the senior primary children go to Senior Primary Sharing Time.

I remember wonderfully back in the days when primary was during the week, the school bus would drop us off right at the church on those days. Also Relief Society was during the week and the Sunday schedule was split with Priesthood and Sunday school in the morning and Sacrament Meeting at night. In the winter months we would go to Sacrament meeting after the sun had set, I always loved evening Sacrament meeting during the Christmas season. I remember when the schedule changed to the three hour block time my Mom was so worried about how she was going to keep us kids behaving well for a whole three hours at one time.

Here is another question. For those who are in a Church building that is shared with three (or more) units, how do you rotate your three hour block times, clockwise or counter-clockwise?

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GregAnderson wrote:Does anyone know if there has been any research about how attendance is affected by having the meeting first or last in the block?

Are you suggesting some wards may have made the decision based on perceived budget implications? (grin)

To truly track attendance and figure this out, counting your attendance would need to be far more precise and more frequent than what is required for your quarterly report, and would need to span many years. The "key indicators" part of "leader and clerk resources" allows leaders to go back 4 years and chart their own units attendance data, but this data is only a "sampling" of the real picture.

I think such decisions are as much a matter of tradition, logistics and preference as being based on any "attendance data." After all, attendance (or non-attendance) at our meetings is more dependent on our personal commitment then start times. Hold the meeting at 4 AM and those that are committed will do whatever it takes to be there.

crislapi wrote:....My observation in my own stake (YSA) is that those with sacrament meeting last have better attendance at the start of sacrament meeting. But based on Mormon-standard time, I imagine the same is true almost everywhere.

My wife reminds me of a previous ward that had sacrament last, and as she was in the primary presidency, tells me that opening exercises in Primary was at times difficult due to late attendance because it was right at the first of the block. She is once again in the primary with Sacrament first and notices the difference. She theorizes that perhaps people make more of an effort to make it to Sacrament on time then they did to primary or their Sunday school class.

GregAnderson wrote: Does anyone know what percentage of wards have Sacrament Meeting first throughout the church?

RussellHltn wrote:No, but since the meeting times are on the public part of LUWS, given enough time (or some scripting), you could compile a list - or at very least a sampling.

Since that data is stored in CDOL I just queried it.

Of those units with times entered:
There are 70% that start with sacrament meeting
There are 15-20% that end with sacrament meeting
For the rest the times don't line up easily.

kh_design wrote:Here is another question. For those who are in a Church building that is shared with three (or more) units, how do you rotate your three hour block times, clockwise or counter-clockwise?

In our stake, it tends to be everyone moves "back" one slot with the last ward becoming first. So, if the times are 9AM, 11AM, and 1PM; the 9AM ward moves to 11AM, the 11AM ward becomes 1PM, and the 1PM becomes 9AM.

Another "problem" with Sacrament meeting last is sustaining priesthood advancements. You would now either have to do them after the block (which I don't like because it is harder to involve the quorum) or delay it a week. I prefer Sacrament meetings first.
Troy

Rumor has it that our stake has just been ordered to arrange the schedules so that every ward has Sacrament Meeting first, and that this will be the new requirement church-wide. I don't know if anyone can confirm that having Sacrament Meeting last is no longer an option anywhere. Supposedly, we have to make the change within 3 months, with the exact timing dependent on when the local leaders in each building can decide to make it happen in their building.

Perhaps by the end of our meeting block tomorrow it will not be a rumor anymore.

mrrad wrote:Rumor has it that our stake has just been ordered to arrange the schedules so that every ward has Sacrament Meeting first, and that this will be the new requirement church-wide.

With overlapping meetings in a building, all units have to use either Plan 1 (sacrament meeting first) or Plan 2 (sacrament meeting last). In our stake, units were allowed to use either plan, but to facilitate visits for ward and branch conferences, units were asked by the stake president to hold sacrament meeting first. This always caused some confusion, especially if not well announced in advance, and most units finally gave up and started holding sacrament meeting first.

But if Plan 2 is going away, that would be news here.

Our area authority also recently asked that our sacrament meetings be first. He said it will be rolled out church-wide, except for units where it's not feasible.

I wonder why the change? I can only guess that the stats on attendance favors sacrament first.

I took at quick look. I think only a student singles ward is affected in my stake. Nothing in the neighboring stakes.

There is a training emphasis on the Sabbath Day that was given to the area and general authorities at the General Conference Training the Thursday and Friday before General Conference. It's a two-part training: The first segment is "Sabbath Day Observance at Church" and the second is "Sabbath Day Observance in the Home."

The training will be given to each stake, and from the stake level, to each ward (I am pretty sure this is Church-wide, if not, at least within the United States). Our stake presidency received the training materials for the first segment a couple of weeks ago, and we're now in the process of getting the training and discussion down to the ward council level.

This is the first time that I know of that the Church has produced handouts, PowerPoint, and video recordings (© Intellectual Reserve) of the General Conference leadership training with the specific instruction to take the full set of materials to the stakes and wards for discussion in ward council.

Looking through the materials, I don't see anything that specifically states that Sacrament meeting needs to be held first. Perhaps your stake leaders have been reading the handbook more carefully recently about Sacrament meetings, and feel like having Sacrament meeting first will more closely align with the principles of Sacrament meeting and the Sabbath Day that are taught. Or perhaps the area authorities have received more specific instruction.

There's nothing earth-shattering in the training, but it's a very clear focus and very interesting how it's being approached. Based on this focus, it seems clear that the Sabbath Day is something we haven't been taking full advantage of as a Church.

sbradshaw wrote:Looking through the materials, I don't see anything that specifically states that Sacrament meeting needs to be held first.

We received the same training in conjunction with our stake conference earlier this month. The instruction regarding sacrament meeting being first was given by the visiting authority over the pulpit.

We had our stake conference last week and the visiting authority didn't mention anything about Sacrament being first or not. He did mention the training about Sabbath day observance and we will hear more after our CCM in a weeks time.

We shall see if any formal announcement is made, until then it will be business as usual.

sbradshaw wrote:There's nothing earth-shattering in the training, but it's a very clear focus and very interesting how it's being approached. Based on this focus, it seems clear that the Sabbath Day is something we haven't been taking full advantage of as a Church.

Very interesting, and something I have been pondering personally for a while already. I will avoid further discussion for now (because I don't want to derail the focus of this thread) but I'll just say that, after 35 years of doing the block schedule, I would welcome something earth-shattering. Oh, well.

sbradshaw wrote:There is a training emphasis on the Sabbath Day that was given to the area and general authorities at the General Conference Training the Thursday and Friday before General Conference. It's a two-part training: The first segment is "Sabbath Day Observance at Church" and the second is "Sabbath Day Observance in the Home."

The training will be given to each stake, and from the stake level, to each ward (I am pretty sure this is Church-wide, if not, at least within the United States). Our stake presidency received the training materials for the first segment a couple of weeks ago, and we're now in the process of getting the training and discussion down to the ward council level.

This is the first time that I know of that the Church has produced handouts, PowerPoint, and video recordings (© Intellectual Reserve) of the General Conference leadership training with the specific instruction to take the full set of materials to the stakes and wards for discussion in ward council.

Looking through the materials, I don't see anything that specifically states that Sacrament meeting needs to be held first. Perhaps your stake leaders have been reading the handbook more carefully recently about Sacrament meetings, and feel like having Sacrament meeting first will more closely align with the principles of Sacrament meeting and the Sabbath Day that are taught. Or perhaps the area authorities have received more specific instruction.

There's nothing earth-shattering in the training, but it's a very clear focus and very interesting how it's being approached. Based on this focus, it seems clear that the Sabbath Day is something we haven't been taking full advantage of as a Church.

I get that training tonight. I noticed the news about this training on ldsliving.com and in the article they state that the materials they had for the training specifically state that sacrament meeting should be first whenever possible. We only have one ward (YSA) that mixes up the schedule and that is due to having four units in one building.

I reviewed the training again and you're right, it is specifically mentioned in the video.

sbradshaw wrote:I reviewed the training again and you're right, it is specifically mentioned in the video.

Elder M. Russell Ballard says in the video, "It's a recommendation. It is not a directive. . . . If it's possible, . . . consider having sacrament meeting the first meeting of the block."

The videos were placed online in an article at the Newsroom this week for anyone who wishes to see them.

The Q&A videos are recent, supplementary videos (not the actual training videos). Hopefully they'll post the training videos soon.

I have a few Questions:
Will the Sabbath Day training be posted online so that everyone who needs them may have access?

Thus far, our ward has resorted to handing out the 1.8GB of training materials on 2GB Flash (Thumb) drives. This is a costly way to disseminate information in 2015 with the availability of the internet. I have duplicated and distributed 35 thumb drives to all our ward leadership and instructors because that is the way our Bishop received it from the Stake and Area leadership.

One individual who is out-of-town for the week and preparing a lesson for Sunday could not access the training info on their thumb drive for whatever technical reason and I resorted to placing the training files on my Dropbox account and emailed them access. Hopefully they have internet.

If this were a talk or a lesson this would not be an issue, but as stated, this is almost 2 gigabytes of information.
What is the confidentiality regarding these training materials?

The Brethren have asked that every member be taught this information but have not provided suggested method for circulation, so we have devised the use use of flash drives and Dropbox.
Is placing them on Dropbox discouraged?

We put the training videos in a Google Drive folder shared with stake leaders and bishoprics. I don't think the training materials are considered confidential, but they are copyrighted. I would stop short of distributing them outside of your stewardship area (ward or stake). I expect the Church to put them online eventually.

One reason they may not be publicly online yet is to make sure leaders who can receive inspiration for their wards are able to review it, consider it, and prayerfully make plans without being pressured to go various directions by anxious stake members who are not in the same position to receive revelation for the ward. It is wise for instruction to go to the leaders first, then to everyone else who would benefit.

sbradshaw wrote:One reason they may not be publicly online yet is to make sure leaders who can receive inspiration for their wards are able to review it, consider it, and prayerfully make plans without being pressured to go various directions by anxious stake members who are not in the same position to receive revelation for the ward. It is wise for instruction to go to the leaders first, then to everyone else who would benefit.

Yes. I think some stakes are still in the process of getting it to their wards and branches.