CUBS Budget:Other and Other:XXXX confusion

A suggestion to the programmers - how about changing the name of the CUBS "Budget:Other" subcategory to "Budget:More"

Several units are currently re-creating their own subcategories under "Budget:Other" for things like combined YM/YW activities that are not represented in the standard list of budget accounts created by CUBS.

If "Budget:Other" was renamed to "Budget:More" then "More" would just be a heading with the locally unique budget accounts listed under it. "More" would in essence mean more subcategories.

The current use of the word "OTHER" in "Budget:Other" immediately creates confusion with our longstanding "OTHER" category which has subcategories under it for holding funds that have been collected for special events and projects.

That confusion is enhanced in some of the drop down lists that don't have deep indentations for subcategories. Its hard to tell which "Other" to pick. You see it as "Other" under the exploded budget category list AND again further below.

Having two uses of the word "OTHER" in the list of accounts is just asking for problems. I have already made the mistake of creating a few subcategories under "Budget:Other" that really belonged under our old Other category (CUBS first called it Other:Payable to Local Unit), and I have been at this for several decades.

This morning I see the "Payable to Local Unit" category that was holding our old "OTHER" accounts in the new CUBS system has now been renamed to "Authorized Member Financed Activities".

Lets hop on the rename it band wagon and rename "Budget:Other" to "Budget:More" or "Budget:WhateverElseTheyWantToCallIt" so we can create our locally unique budget subcategories under it and not get them confused with the longstanding "Other" accounts.

Thanks for listening.

chartman

Personally, I think Budget:Misc would be better. I agree that two "Others" is asking for trouble.

Although renaming the old "Other" to "Authorized Member Financed Activities" might clear up some misunderstandings of what it was to be used for.

All those in favor of "Budget:Misc" Please make it manifest

ralitaco wrote:All those in favor of "Budget:Misc" Please make it manifest

Aye Invisible Text

I thought about "Misc" earlier, but locally, we have long had a Budget:Misc category for miscellaneous items. It was historically a parallel category to our "Budget:Young Men", "Budget Relief Society", etc. categories.

In the new CUBS system we have it under the "Budget:Other" category at the moment, listed as "Budget:Other:Misc".

If you turned "Budget:Other" into "Budget:Misc" we (and I suspect many others like us) would then have "Budget:Misc", a "Budget:Misc:Combined Youth Activities", and a "Budget:Misc:Misc". While we could put the truly misc items in the top "Budget:Misc" and the sub guys under there in the appropriate subcategory, our old training on keeping the top category of the old "Other" account empty keeps bleeding over making it hard for me to put things in a top "Budget:Misc" then still put stuff in "Budget:Misc:Combined Youth Activities" in a subcategory under it.

The double use of "Misc" would create the same problem we are trying to avoid. Some people would be dropping misc. items in both of them ("Budget:Misc" and "Budget:Misc:Misc". )

The current "Budget:Other" category is not really a miscellaneous category. The way we and many others are using it, it is just a place to access some more subcategories that were not among the standard categories created by CUBS.

I looked at a dictionary and a synonym finder before suggesting "Budget:More". I am not real big on "more" but it seemed more appropriate and less likely to cause confusion that the alternatives, plus it is a short word.


While we are at it, I am guessing CUBS may eventually go to some abbreviations / acronyms for "Authorized Member Financed Activities" and other similar new categories with very long names because the current full names make it hard to pick out the correct trailing subcategories in drop down lists (you see many items in a row with a lot of the same letters vs a shorter group of similar letters - see below)

"Authorized Member Financed Activities:Girls Camp"
"Authorized Member Financed Activities:Nauvoo Trip"
"Authorized Member Financed Activities:RS Craft Blitz"
"Authorized Member Financed Activities:Scouts Flag Project"

would become:

AMFA:Girls Camp
AMFA:Nauvoo Trip
AMFA:RS Craft Blitz
AMFA:Scout Flag Project

and much easier to select from.

thanks for listening again

ralitaco wrote:All those in favor of "Budget:Misc" Please make it manifest

chartman wrote:I looked at a dictionary and a synonym finder before suggesting "Budget:More". I am not real big on "more" but it seemed more appropriate and less likely to cause confusion that the alternatives, plus it is a short word.

I like More better than Misc.

The subcategories we are talking about just happen not to be built-in categories. But they're not really miscellaneous -- they are simply more categories beyond the built-in categories. So I like "More".

Alan_Brown wrote:I like More better than Misc.

The subcategories we are talking about just happen not to be built-in categories. But they're not really miscellaneous -- they are simply more categories beyond the built-in categories. So I like "More".

The problem I have with "more" is that it seems like a oxymoron - more money/more budget.

"Other" is the most appropriate term. And if the top level "Other" is getting renamed to AMFA, that would probably be best. However, it would cause quite a confusion during the change-over, especially with older posts and guidelines.

Part of me wonders if this is a preview of the CHI training.

RussellHltn wrote:"Other" is the most appropriate term. And if the top level "Other" is getting renamed to AMFA, that would probably be best. However, it would cause quite a confusion during the change-over, especially with older posts and guidelines.

I agree that "Budget:Other" is the most appropriate term. But it does create potential confusion, so that's why I can go along with a proposal to change it.

Note, however, that the top level "Other" is not getting renamed to AMFA. "Other" is still the top level, but there is a new second level. That second level was called "Other:Payable to Local Unit" in the initial CUBS transition, and now it is "Other:Authorized Member Financed Activities". Either way, it's still a subcategory of "Other".

RussellHltn wrote:Part of me wonders if this is a preview of the CHI training.

I think the CHI training will have to be rather broad in content, since so many different people are involved. I wouldn't anticipate any significant discussion of financial issues. But we will all know soon enough....

This, to me, is another example of something that did NOT need to change but was included anyway in this latest, comprehsensive re-write of the financial portion of MLS. Why restrict our ability to create sub-categories of the budget? We'll just end up creating the same sub-categories we had before but we'll be forced to put them into places where they won't fit as neatly. Another example of a mess caused because too much was changed all at once. I can say "if it ain't broke" etc. Someone back in HQ will argue that this stuff DID need to be fixed but, out here on the ground, we can't understand why.

I considered "more" might seem like more money/more budget before I suggested it. However, it still seems like the best choice to me.

I am not sure if the system would support it or not, but one way around the point raised by Bro. RussellHltn is to use "More..." (the three dots signifying that if you click on it you will be led to more categories).

Budget:More...
Budget:More...:Combined Youth Activities
Budget:More...:CUBS PTSD foundation (a little humor)

Alan_Brown wrote:I agree that "Budget:Other" is the most appropriate term. But it does create potential confusion, so that's why I can go along with a proposal to change it.

I think we're all in agreement on that one. The question is what to call it.

Budget:None Of The Above
Budget:Something Else
Budget:Everything Else
Budget:Custom
Budget:Custom Categories
Budget:Local Unit Categories
Budget:Whatever
Budget:The other Other
Budget:B Other (which might be a good way of saying Budget:Other, "Bother")


Brainstorming can be fun. :rolleyes:

GregAnderson wrote:Why restrict our ability to create sub-categories of the budget?

My guess is that too many wards were not producing reports. Standardizing the top level categories allows CHQ to create standardized reports for the ward and stake leadership.

It would also allow the higher level leaders to see where the wards are spending their money.

RussellHltn wrote:I think we're all in agreement on that one. The question is what to call it.

After seeing the awful effects of an outrageously long category name, I definitely vote for something short.

I know that the powers that be were trying to make it really clear what the "Other:Authorized Member Financed Activities" category is for, but it's definitely awkward to have categories that are the same for at least the first 44 characters. You have to make category columns quite wide on the screen in order to see the unique part of the category name, and for reports containing category names, the category pretty much always wraps to two or more lines within a cell.

So I can live with Budget:More, Budget:Custom, or something else short, but please don't curse us with something like "Budget:Local Unit Categories".

Alan_Brown wrote:I know that the powers that be were trying to make it really clear what the "Other:Authorized Member Financed Activities" category is for, but it's definitely awkward to have categories that are the same for at least the first 44 characters.

I noticed last night that my stake Income & Expense report has no "Other" categories at all (we never used it, so none got carried forward). However, I do have at the very top of the list a category called "Authorized Member Financed Activities". I'm assuming that is my new Other.

I have not noticed that category on any ward computers yet, however. In contrast, they DO have Other:Payable to Local Unit and some carryover subcategories under that.

RussellHltn wrote:I think we're all in agreement on that one. The question is what to call it.

Budget:None Of The Above
Budget:Something Else
Budget:Everything Else
Budget:Custom
Budget:Custom Categories
Budget:Local Unit Categories
Budget:Whatever
Budget:The other Other
Budget:B Other (which might be a good way of saying Budget:Other, "Bother")


Brainstorming can be fun. :rolleyes:

I vote for

Budget:42.

LVAllen wrote:I vote for

Budget:42.

The answer to all budgeting questions!

crislapi wrote:I have not noticed that category on any ward computers yet, however. In contrast, they DO have Other:Payable to Local Unit and some carryover subcategories under that.

I don't sit still long. After inquiring, I was given the following answer:

[font=&quot]After the next send/receive the wards should see Authorized Member Financed Activities[/font]

I'm not trying to kill the discussion, but looks like we're going to be using the long name after all. Once implemented, the only "other" will be Budget:Other, or as adequately truncated earlier, "bother".

That still doesn't account for what we are used to thinking of other as being.

crislapi wrote:or as adequately truncated earlier, "bother".

Just to be clear, since I was thinking phonetically, it was to be pronounced Be-other". Somehow I didn't even see "bother" as in to bother someone.

Just did a send/receive.... the names of those accounts are now changed

crislapi wrote:

[font=&quot]After the next send/receive the wards should see Authorized Member Financed Activities[/font]

I'm not trying to kill the discussion, but looks like we're going to be using the long name after all. Once implemented, the only "other" will be Budget:Other, or as adequately truncated earlier, "bother".

I think something got lost in translation. There is still an Other account. It has one and only one subcategory: "Other:Authorized Member Financed Activities"; that category has multiple sub-subcategories.

The change is that "Other:Payable to Local Unit" became "Other:Authorized Member Financed Activities". Personally, I don't see any use for that intermediate level; they could have just had "Authorized Member Financed Activities" replace Other at the top level. But that hasn't happened.

Alan_Brown wrote:The change is that "Other:Payable to Local Unit" became "Other:Authorized Member Financed Activities". Personally, I don't see any use for that intermediate level; they could have just had "Authorized Member Financed Activities" replace Other at the top level. But that hasn't happened.

I think they are struggling to come up with a name to cover two types of Other. There is the Other that the Church uses to handle things like bounced checks. And then there is the Other that the local unit uses for a very few proper reasons and then for reasons that are not so, well, proper.

Trouble is, by calling it "Other:Authorized Member Financed Activities", they have tried to include an entire training course on how to use the Other category properly into the sub-category title of the Other account.

Not that these are any better, but they are shorter:

Other:Church controlled
Other:Locally controlled

or even better:

Other:Hq
Other:Local

Alan_Brown wrote:The change is that "Other:Payable to Local Unit" became "Other:Authorized Member Financed Activities". Personally, I don't see any use for that intermediate level; they could have just had "Authorized Member Financed Activities" replace Other at the top level. But that hasn't happened.

That's odd. My stake computer shows just "Authorized Member Financed Activities"; there is no preceding "Other:". It is the first item on my Income and Expense report. However, we never used the Other account so it didn't even appear post-CUBS. The wards I have looked at, however, all show "Other:Authorized Member Financed Activities". They did use Other and did have categories appear after the transition.

crislapi wrote:That's odd. My stake computer shows just "Authorized Member Financed Activities"; there is no preceding "Other:".
. . .
The wards . . . all show "Other:Authorized Member Financed Activities".

Our stake computer does not show anything, but that is totally unrelated to CUBS. However, because we will be in that situation for a short while longer, we have taken the position that it does not hurt to let the dust settle a little bit.

After we start receiving stake financial support, perhaps in a week or two, we plan to do a few Send/Receives, see what is left, and then start working from there.

And by then, it appears, all of the world's problems will have been solved. [grin]

(Well, we can only hope, eh?)

The "Other" (or Pass-Through) category contains TWO top-level sub-categories. The first is "Authorized Member Financed Activities", under which local units can add their own lower-level sub-categories (such as "Scout Camp"). The second top-level sub-category is the rarely remembered (because it does not appear on our tithing & offerings slips) "Temple Patron Assistance".

Technically, "Humanitarian Aid", "Perpetual Education", and "Temple Construction" also fall under the "Other" (or Pass-Through) category, but they appear as categories rather than sub-categories because donations made to them are automatically transferred to Church Headquarters at Send/Receive time. (Unless something has changed that I am not aware about,) we still have to send "Temple Patron Assistance" funds to Church Headquarters manually, thus its inclusion as a sub-category under the "Other" (or Pass-Through) category.

As one of those poor uninformed souls who spent 7 hours setting up all our Ward's "missed" sub-categories (such as Activities Committee!) under "Budget:Budget Allocations" (because that is where two other sub-category budget areas were already located by the conversion process), just to receive the notification that we should NOT do that an hour after I had finished the conversion, I REALLY would appreciate knowing how MLS & CUBS themselves use any special budget sub-category, such as "Budget Allocations" itself. I am refusing to use "Budget:Other" for ANY sub-sub-category until I run some test reports from the Other (or Pass-Through) category, to see whether any of those reports show the word "Other". If any of them do show the word "Other", then use of Budget:Other is out at our Ward. It simply would be too confusing to our quorums and auxiliaries. (Sigh.)

HunsakerTG wrote:Technically, "Humanitarian Aid", "Perpetual Education", and "Temple Construction" also fall under the "Other" (or Pass-Through) category, but they appear as categories rather than sub-categories because donations made to them are automatically transferred to Church Headquarters at Send/Receive time.

Just clarifying. Temple Patron Assistance is an automatically swept category while I believe it is Temple Construction that is not (at least not right now).

crislapi wrote:Just clarifying. Temple Patron Assistance is an automatically swept category while I believe it is Temple Construction that is not (at least not right now).

crislapi is correct. (I am now guessing Temple Patron Assistance is not its own category because it does not [currently] appear on the tithing and offerings slip. It would not have anything to do with the automatic sweep.)

GregAnderson wrote: ...We'll just end up creating the same sub-categories we had before but we'll be forced to put them into places where they won't fit as neatly.

This is the reason I recommended to my Bishop that we just live with the standard categories for the next 1.5 months. We told the organizations in Ward Council this week that they would have 1 budget line for the rest of the year and they will just have to live with that. For 2011, we hope to have a better understanding of how to best set-up their subcategories.

At first I really struggled with trying to think through how to make the new system match the old. I finally just decided to let it go, concentrate on the new system and learn how to work within it. I had the same problem with MLS at first until I let go of my pre-conceived notions as to how I thought it should work.

I'm struggling with the categories and hope someone can shed some light, or at least some suggestions.

As a YSA branch, our biggest budget category has always been the Activities Committee. In CUBS, that committee has been banished. Does anyone have some ideas about where a sub-category for Activities Committee should be created?

I created one under Other, but I'm thinking that might be inappropriate. I just can't see any of the other categories that look better.

idjeeper wrote:I'm struggling with the categories and hope someone can shed some light, or at least some suggestions.

As a YSA branch, our biggest budget category has always been the Activities Committee. In CUBS, that committee has been banished. Does anyone have some ideas about where a sub-category for Activities Committee should be created?

I created one under Other, but I'm thinking that might be inappropriate. I just can't see any of the other categories that look better.

We are a YSA stake. I created most of my categories under Budget:Other because 1) they are mostly activities related (mingles, FHE, sports) and 2) they didn't seem to fit well under any of the other options.

For more reading, I'd recommend this thread. Basically, use whatever subcategory makes the most sense. If it's Other, that's fine. I don't think it's intended for every category to be in Other, but if that's the most logical association, then that's ok.

Isn't there a category Budget:Young Single Adult? Seems like that would be a good place.

RussellHltn wrote:Isn't there a category Budget:Young Single Adult? Seems like that would be a good place.

To be precise, it's "Budget:Single Adults," but that would indeed be another category that could be used. You can create subcategories under that category such as "Budget:Single Adults:Activities" (but remember that you can't create categories nested any deeper than that third level).

I have done a lot of one on one training with the wards clerks and some of the bishops since the change. It has been very interesting to see how much confusion is caused by using the term "Other" in a budget category.
I would agree with a change to "misc", "more" or something else in place of "other". If we don't see a change then we will just continue to teach on the differences.
I am one that likes to run headlong into the next thing. As I take a deep breath and look at this latest change I am greatful for the blessings it will bring as we learn to use it.

idjeeper wrote:As a YSA branch, our biggest budget category has always been the Activities Committee. In CUBS, that committee has been banished. Does anyone have some ideas about where a sub-category for Activities Committee should be created?

Another silent change has been made to MLS in the last few days. In my Stake MLS this morning I noticed "Budget:Activities Committee" now appears in the category list. Luckily I did not make any transactions with the "Budget:Other:Activities Committee" subcategory I had created and was able to delete it.

One of the BEST solutions that I think could be done is for an UPDATED training on MLS & CUBS. The most recent update to the training modules is 2008. When they make major changes like this, they need to release updated training at the same time as it would greatly reduce the confusion, questions, and misunderstanding.

But this is SO MUCH BETTER that what I had to use in 1974 when I was first called as clerk. A book (11 x 17) to record all expenses, weekly deposits (in triplicate). Typing the receipts three to a page, again in triplicate. Membership records that were hand written on 5 x 8 cards. When someone moved in, you sent a request to Salt Lake, they sent a request to the ward they were from, that ward sent the records to Salt Lake, then Salt Lake sent them to you. If you got membership records within a minth, you were lucky!

This is progress brothers, work WITH it and not AGAINST it!:D

James Nice
Ward Clerk
Sandy River Ward
Mt Hood Oregon Stake

idjeeper wrote:I'm struggling with the categories and hope someone can shed some light, or at least some suggestions.

As a YSA branch, our biggest budget category has always been the Activities Committee. In CUBS, that committee has been banished. Does anyone have some ideas about where a sub-category for Activities Committee should be created?

I created one under Other, but I'm thinking that might be inappropriate. I just can't see any of the other categories that look better.

Just saw this post. Looks like an activities committee subcategory has been silently added to Budget.

I've changed my mind about the use of Budget:Other. Our quorum and auxiliary leaders won't focus on the word "other" at all as long as the name assigned to each (lowest level) budget category is able to stand on its own merit.

I also believe it is critical for us to attend this Saturday's Worldwide Leadership Training. I doubt CUBS will be addressed or even hinted at, however, because we do have a few weeks experience with the new system, the spirit behind It will undoubtably become very obvious. Updated MLS & CUBS training can then follow.

JLRose wrote:Another silent change has been made to MLS in the last few days. In my Stake MLS this morning I noticed "Budget:Activities Committee" now appears in the category list. Luckily I did not make any transactions with the "Budget:Other:Activities Committee" subcategory I had created and was able to delete it.

Noticed this today when I did an initial send/receive. Unfortunately I can't delete the subcategory I made, so it's there for eternity. Small issue compared to having a member hanging out for a couple a hundred while I wait for CUBS fixes.

idjeeper wrote:Small issue compared to having a member hanging out for a couple a hundred while I wait for CUBS fixes.

Not sure exactly what this means, but it sounds like you're holding off on reimbursing a member until all CUBS patches have been made. There is no need for this. Reimburse as normal. The fixes aren't going to change the money you have.

From the e-doc:

Issue: Can I write checks with no Budget?
Most wards and branches will start with a negative or zero balance. (If checks were written after October 17, or distribution center charges occurred in October, they now show in MLS, creating a negative balance). Stakes will now send their wards a check for their portion of their budget left for the year. Until this happens, wards can still write checks and code expenses to the appropriate budget subcategory. Wards may show a negative balance until they receive the budget check from the stake.

crislapi wrote:Not sure exactly what this means, but it sounds like you're holding off on reimbursing a member until all CUBS patches have been made. There is no need for this. Reimburse as normal. The fixes aren't going to change the money you have.

From the e-doc:

No, no - paying as normal. It was just a matter of deciding where to put the expense initially, then finding the proper category came along after the deal was done. I do know that some units have been holding off until their allocations come from the stake - I educate as I can when I see that.

chartman wrote:A suggestion to the programmers - how about changing the name of the CUBS "Budget:Other" subcategory to "Budget:More"

They listened. i noticed today that my Budget:Other was now listed as Budget:Miscellaneous

crislapi wrote:They listened. i noticed today that my Budget:Other was now listed as Budget:Miscellaneous

I saw that yesterday also. I really didn't like the Budget:Other due to the confusion with the old "Other" account. Glad they came up with something else.