Leader and Clerk Resources access on new.lds.org

Ever since it was in Beta, when I log in to the new.lds.org site I see a "Leader and Clerk Resources" item in the dropdown of the Tools menu. Once it switched from beta.lds.org to new.lds.org, I also see "Membership Records" and "Organizations and Callings". These seem like a great addition and make it much easier to get ward reports without having to drive into the Church or fight for computer time on Sunday. I hope they continue to expand these areas.

I am the Ward Executive Secretary, but the features in here seem to apply to many leadership positions (such as the ability to print class rolls). None of the other leaders in the ward seem to be able to see any of these, including counselors in the bishopric (our Bishop hasn't gotten around to looking, so I don't know if he would be able to or not). It would seem that at least the counselors in the bishopric should be able to access these Leader and Clerk Resources item.

I have searched and cannot seem to find where on the Wiki these leadership tools are being tracked, or where there is documentation for them. Does anyone know who should have access to these areas or where there is any documentation on the leadership tools? Is there some site on the Wiki or somewhere else that is tracking what is going to be added to this area and a rough timeline?

benjamincarleski wrote: I am the Ward Executive Secretary, but the features in here seem to apply to many leadership positions (such as the ability to print class rolls). None of the other leaders in the ward seem to be able to see any of these, including counselors in the bishopric (our Bishop hasn't gotten around to looking, so I don't know if he would be able to or not). It would seem that at least the counselors in the bishopric should be able to access these Leader and Clerk Resources item.

Currently it is available to Bishop, Ward Clerk and Executive Secretary. The are adding Councilors and Assistant Clerks with the next release.

Ryan,
Is there an ETA for the next release?

kgthunder wrote:Ryan,
Is there an ETA for the next release?

Yes there is, but we aren't suppose to give dates. It wouldn't be good if something came up that held up the release.

The best I can say is soon.

Okay, I was just wondering if by end of year or next spring. Soon sounds good as long as it doesn't turn into indefinite delays.

Is there a way we can tell when the new version has been released? Is there a version in the HTML I can peek at periodically, will there be new reports or features, or will the councilor just need to keep checking back periodically?

I'm assuming that because of the nature of this area, it is an internal-only project, and so I understand that there isn't much detail that needs to be released to the community. Still, it would be nice if there was a place on the Tech Wiki or the Clerk's Wiki that talked a little about it, what features were planned, and maybe had a very rough timeline.

ryan jones wrote:Yes there is, but we aren't suppose to give dates. It wouldn't be good if something came up that held up the release.

The best I can say is soon.

I just had to chuckle a little at this comment. I work in the field and understand completely...

I understand as well, I just hope it doesn't turn into some Church projects that I knew of when I worked at the help desk that had a planned rollout and got delayed 18+ months with an eternally changing release date. I hope it's a minor release to update roles and rights.

ryan jones wrote:Currently it is available to Bishop, Ward Clerk and Executive Secretary. The are adding Councilors and Assistant Clerks with the next release.

It appears some functionality is now in place. As a bishopric counselor, I am now able to sign in to http://new.lds.org/leaders and browse the various reports, where I was not able to do so last week.

njcant1 wrote:It appears this functionality is now in place. As a bishopric counselor, I am now able to sign in to http://new.lds.org/leaders and browse the various reports, where I was not able to do so last week.

Well, it's perhaps half in place. I'm an assistant stake clerk, and I still have no access.

Alan_Brown wrote:

njcant1 wrote:It appears some functionality is now in place. As a bishopric counselor, I am now able to sign in to http://new.lds.org/leaders and browse the various reports, where I was not able to do so last week.

Well, it's perhaps half in place. I'm an assistant stake clerk, and I still have no access.

It looks like the intent was to include the stake and district callings in this release. I would recommend checking later this evening and see if they are still in progress. Also check the MLS portion to see if that allows the assistant stake clerks.

ryan jones wrote:It looks like the intent was to include the stake and district callings in this release. I would recommend checking later this evening and see if they are still in progress. Also check the MLS portion to see if that allows the assistant stake clerks.

No and no. I can't access http://new.lds.org/leader, nor can I access http://new.lds.org/mls/mbr -- in both cases, I get "Access Denied: You are not authorized to access this page." I just checked again this morning -- no change.

And yet I do have calendar permissions and directory permissions, and CDOL shows up on my Tools menu, so clearly there are some parts of the site that act differently because of my assistant stake clerk calling. But not the leader or MLS portions.

There may have been an intent to include assistant stake clerks in this release, but it's not working yet.

Alan_Brown wrote: There may have been an intent to include assistant stake clerks in this release, but it's not working yet.

I found out that they excluded finance clerks at this point. I wonder if the problem is that you are listed as both the finance clerk and the STS.

Could one of you that is just the STS check and see if your rights are working?

ryan jones wrote:I found out that they excluded finance clerks at this point. I wonder if the problem is that you are listed as both the finance clerk and the STS.

Could one of you that is just the STS check and see if your rights are working?

I'm the STS in my stake and I do not have access either.

ryan jones wrote:It looks like the intent was to include the stake and district callings in this release.

Ryan,

Who does make the "permissions" decisions - is this a programmer thing or a committee thing? Or, some combination of a programmer thing first then a committee thing....,
I have to say that sometimes who can access and who can't is puzzling...

These ward/stake duties often overlap, such as purchasing form the distribution center, but sometimes the "permissions" lock every ward into a "perfect ward" scenario. We aren't all built exactly the same.

If one of us is out of town for a few weeks, or sick but not yet released or replaced, another leader often covers, but then that member can't access the right part of the "new" tools because it's not "their" calling.

Can there be a way made in the future for local units to have some control over "who" can access "what" in spite of their MLS calling?
If our ward wants our "local service missionaries" to also work as employment specialists, why can't our bishop, who has the authority to instruct them on what he wants them to do, also give them the "permissions" on the new site that an employment specialist would have? Would a little more "local" control be bad?

ryan jones wrote:It looks like the intent was to include the stake and district callings in this release. I would recommend checking later this evening and see if they are still in progress. Also check the MLS portion to see if that allows the assistant stake clerks.

It looks like I was a bit too broad in this statement. They did include stake and district callings, but it was the councilors and the generic Assistant Clerk and the Assistant Clerk - Membership. STS was left off the list .

The good news is that tracking this down has started the request for STS's to be added to the list.

ryan jones wrote:....The good news is that tracking this down has started the request for STS's to be added to the list.

Ryan,

Please report back when the position of STS has been added. There's a number of forum members with that calling and I'm sure they be interested.

techgy wrote:Ryan,

Please report back when the position of STS has been added. There's a number of forum members with that calling and I'm sure they be interested.

Certainly. I should have looked at the list closer when I saw it the first time. I heard they were adding assistant clerks, except for finance and just assumed that STS's would be in the list.

kisaac wrote:If our ward wants our "local service missionaries" to also work as employment specialists, why can't our bishop, who has the authority to instruct them on what he wants them to do, also give them the "permissions" on the new site that an employment specialist would have? Would a little more "local" control be bad?

What would the objection be if you just added the "employment specialist" calling to the appointed "local service missionary"? Not only would it give that person the rights of an employment specialist, but it would help others - including the ward members - know who acting in that capacity.

We published some information about the Leader Portal on the wiki at https://tech.lds.org/wiki/index.php/Leader_Portal. If you still have access issues or unanswered questions, let me know and I'll add it to the wiki page.

tomjohnson1492 wrote:We published some information about the Leader Portal on the wiki at https://tech.lds.org/wiki/index.php/Leader_Portal. If you still have access issues or unanswered questions, let me know and I'll add it to the wiki page.

The wiki article uses the rather vague phrase "as well as their corresponding clerks and secretaries" to describe who can access the Leader Portal beyond the unit leaders. Since that has been a specific point of confusion (can assistant clerks access the leader tools? -- the answer currently is "not all of them"), it seems like more specific language would be helpful.

I thought they did have access. I'll find out for sure and update the wiki. Thanks for bringing this up.

tomjohnson1492 wrote:I thought they did have access. I'll find out for sure and update the wiki. Thanks for bringing this up.

Most of them do. The finance clerks and the stake technology specialists are they ones that don't.

Alan_Brown wrote:The wiki article uses the rather vague phrase "as well as their corresponding clerks and secretaries" to describe who can access the Leader Portal beyond the unit leaders. Since that has been a specific point of confusion (can assistant clerks access the leader tools? -- the answer currently is "not all of them"), it seems like more specific language would be helpful.

But here it is very useful to have an exact list. That way as people have questions we can answer them correctly.

BTW Thanks for getting the information out there on the wiki.

All clerks, both assistant and regular clerks, and all secretaries, both assistant and regular secretaries, should have access. If you're an assistant clerk or secretary, can you try accessing the portal? If you don't have access, it's not by design. Either the site isn't working correctly, or your calling in MLS isn't entered as a standard calling.

One role I don't know about is the stake tech specialist (STS). I think the STS is a stake clerk, but I'm not sure if the system recognizes the STS as a type of clerk.

tomjohnson1492 wrote:All clerks, both assistant and regular clerks, and all secretaries, both assistant and regular secretaries, should have access. If you're an assistant clerk or secretary, can you try accessing the portal? If you don't have access, it's not by design. Either the site isn't working correctly, or your calling in MLS isn't entered as a standard calling.

One role I don't know about is the stake tech specialist (STS). I think the STS is a stake clerk, but I'm not sure if the system recognizes the STS as a type of clerk.

With the last release they added Councilors and 'assistant clerks' after the release, there were issues discussed here in the forums and between the feedback here and an email I sent to Marlin (I'm forwarding it to you), we found out that all Stake/District/Ward/Branch Assistant Clerk - Finance, Stake/District Assistant Clerk - Technology Specialist were not included. Hopefully the Technology Specialists will be added soon.

I was originally called as an assistant stake clerk and then became the Stake tech specialist when they started doing the meeting house internet. I still did both callings (some of us just ask for big work loads). When the new directory site came online I wondered if the STS would cause problems since it is not really listed as a regular clerk, so we added assistant clerk back as one of my callings. It is kind of wierd that I am listed as two callings but it seemed to have worked in giving the correct access.

In conclusion, I have both callings listed under my name and I can currently see the leadership site starting with this version. Hope that helps if anyone is having issues, this might be a workaround until STS is added to the access list.

ryan jones wrote:we found out that all Stake/District/Ward/Branch Assistant Clerk - Finance, Stake/District Assistant Clerk - Technology Specialist were not included. Hopefully the Technology Specialists will be added soon.

Hopefully financial clerks will be added as well. I find this distinction among the assistant clerks to be rather odd and not in harmony with the handbook. There is no calling on the chart of callings for any kind of assistant clerk other than simply "assistant clerk." I was called and set apart simply as an assistant stake clerk. My assignments have changed over the years I have served, as the stake president has determined. I was not serving as the financial clerk at first, but that assignment was added later. I did not have to be sustained or set apart again when I received that assignment, for I was already an assistant clerk.

If my stake president asked me to do something in the realm of membership, I would never say, "Sorry, President, I'm just the financial clerk and STS. That's not my job." So I don't see why Church websites are effectively giving me that message.

Is it the intention of this tool in the future for the stake leadership, bishopric and clerks to be able to control who gets access to the different modules that are available, like it is currently done in MLS?

markgnorthcott wrote:Is it the intention of this tool in the future for the stake leadership, bishopric and clerks to be able to control who gets access to the different modules that are available, like it is currently done in MLS?

Everything I have seen points to access based on Standard MLS callings.

From the callings section of the WIKI:

When assigning a member to a position, use a standard position whenever possible. Some Church Web sites will look for a standard position linked to a member name when establishing rights and responsibilities in using the Web site. Therefore, please make sure no standard position exists before creating a custom position.

Emphasis added.

The wiki has information about callings with access to the Leader Portal. One reason financial clerks don't have access is because the financial section of MLS hasn't yet transitioned online.

I read on the Church Newsroom the following:

The other volume of the handbook, which contains relatively few changes, will be used primarily by bishops and stake presidents (leaders who oversee the work of several bishops). It will also be placed on the Church’s website with other resources specifically used only by these leaders.

I wonder if there are plans to release the text of Handbook 1 on to the Leaders portion of the website as it appears to hint in the last sentence of this paragraph?

Additionally, I'm wondering if there is any roadmap of MLS functionality being moved to the Leaders site? I am amazed and grateful for the amazing information already available. However, I would appreciate a day when some of the functionality of my clerk calling is accessible through the site (requesting/modifying records, updating callings) so I could work on those from home and not compete for computer time on Sunday. Usually if I'm looking up information on a member or a statistic, I want to then perform an action based on what I find in the data. It almost feels like I only have one piece of the puzzle, the input, with no ability to produce output.

kgthunder wrote:I wonder if there are plans to release the text of Handbook 1 on to the Leaders portion of the website as it appears to hint in the last sentence of this paragraph?

Another forum member confirmed to me that this is already the case. However, he is not a clerk, so I don't know how that shakes down on the permissions front for you.

kgthunder wrote: However, I would appreciate a day when some of the functionality of my clerk calling is accessible through the site (requesting/modifying records, updating callings) so I could work on those from home and not compete for computer time on Sunday.

It is coming. Part of the modifying records is there already. In new.lds.org/directory you can change phone numbers and email addresses.
The updating callings piece almost got released with the last release of mls online, but there were a few issues with the data syncing nicely with mls on the ward computer.

Additionally, I'm wondering if there is any roadmap of MLS functionality being moved to the Leaders site?

I'm in the process of writing an article about MLS Web. Basically, the goal of the first phase is to transition over the read-only reports, member information, and other static details. This has already been done, for the most part. The second phase involves transitioning over membership clerk functionality to write back to church databases. Finally, the third phase will transition over financial clerk's functions and tools. Eventually everything in MLS Classic will be available on MLS Web. The goal is to complete the transition by the end of 2011, but I'm not sure if that date will hold.

tomjohnson1492 wrote:I'm in the process of writing an article about MLS Web.

By "article" it sounds like it will be published. Where will this appear?

mkmurray wrote:Another forum member confirmed to me that this is already the case. However, he is not a clerk, so I don't know how that shakes down on the permissions front for you.

Well I managed to find Book 1 on the church site, fairly easily, without even logging in!?

The web team need to close that loophole asap.

It will be published either in the LDS Tech articles section or the wiki. I'm actually wondering about the redundancy of information channels. Wiki articles have longer life and serve as reference information, while blogs serve as news channels. Maybe the blog should highlight and excerpt new content from the wiki?

tomjohnson1492 wrote:It will be published either in the LDS Tech articles section or the wiki.

I look forward to reading the details. However, I continue to wonder if there are stakes not yet aware of the treasure trove of information available through the Forum and Wiki. I suspect there are many clerks that have no idea what is available to them by signing in to new.LDS.org.

When the article is published, maybe an MLS message promoting it would be helpful. We know clerks read all their MLS messages, right?

JLRose wrote:I continue to wonder if there are stakes not yet aware of the treasure trove of information available through the Forum and Wiki. I suspect there are many clerks that have no idea what is available to them by signing in to new.LDS.org.

I do not believe I would know much at all about new.LDS.org unless I haunted this forum.

I am not very familiar with the Wiki because I usually have difficulty creating the right search phrase to find the information I need. More often than not, I search the Wiki, then give up and find the answer I need by searching the Forum. Go figure.

lajackson wrote:I do not believe I would know much at all about new.LDS.org unless I haunted this forum.

I am not very familiar with the Wiki because I usually have difficulty creating the right search phrase to find the information I need. More often than not, I search the Wiki, then give up and find the answer I need by searching the Forum. Go figure.

The wiki search is admittedly not very good. But Google is your friend. Just search for "site:tech.lds.org/wiki <search terms>" and you'll find relevant wiki articles.

Alan_Brown wrote:The wiki search is admittedly not very good. But Google is your friend. Just search for "site:tech.lds.org/wiki <search terms>" and you'll find relevant wiki articles.

I have found that using Google is better when searching the forum, too. "site:tech.lds.org/forum <search terms>"

Alan_Brown wrote:Google is your friend. Just search for "site:tech.lds.org/wiki <search terms>" and you'll find relevant wiki articles.

subtlecoolness wrote:I have found that using Google is better when searching the forum, too. "site:tech.lds.org/forum <search terms>"

Thanks, both. Never would have thought of that.

So I get that LUWS is falling away, so I won't worry about that.

Our MLS is currently up to date. The SP member (the one tech savvy) and I have both done everything we can think of to give me rights to update the new lds.org. I'm exec sec with every permission available in MLS, and the SP has given me every authority that he can at the ward level to make online changes, and yet I still don't see online tools for making changes to the new lds.org.

I can log into cdol.lds.org and modify information.

I can't log into http://new.lds.org/leader (denied access). We synced the MLS system on Sunday (not sure if that would do anything, but we figured why not).

Neither SP member nor I can figure this out, and we're probably the most technical among the leaders.

tortdog wrote:I'm exec sec with every permission available in MLS

For the new lds.org websites MLS permissions don't do anything.

tortdog wrote: I can log into cdol.lds.org and modify information.

This sounds like your calling is correct in MLS which should give you rights.
Can you see your calling in the directory?

tortdog wrote: I can't log into http://new.lds.org/leader (denied access).

I don't know the status of new.lds.org anymore. Have you tried https://lds.org/leader

If your calling is showing in the directory and it has been there for a few days then you will need to send feedback from the lds.org page or call LUS.

ryan jones wrote:This sounds like your calling is correct in MLS which should give you rights.
Can you see your calling in the directory?

Yes. It has me listed as exec sec.

I don't know the status of new.lds.org anymore. Have you tried https://lds.org/leader

Same result.

If your calling is showing in the directory and it has been there for a few days then you will need to send feedback from the lds.org page or call LUS.

Will do (soon as I find the LUS number).

tortdog wrote:Will do (soon as I find the LUS number).

All the LUS contact information is on the wiki at Local Unit Support.

Just got off the line with LUS. Apparently only three callings (not people) can make calendaring changes and have online tools at ward level:

* bishop
* clerk
* ward web administrator (WWA)

No one else (including counselors and exec sec) can do this. It's all calling driven. Since our Bish 2d counselor is WWA, LUS thinks that he probably cannot do anything as well. Apparently the bish counselor "authority" will trump the WWA authority, so you can't assign a bish counselor to WWA or you effectively lose that position.

LUS confirmed this happened with stake presidency, a position trumped the stake web administrator's authority so no one could make a change.

So what to do when a bishop and the clerk are both gone? There is no means to make a replacement. You can't sub someone in (obviously you can't change names for those positions, they are MLS callings). You are kind of stuck until they get back (or they can act via the web). Would be nice to allow local units to grant authority as they see fit for changes.

In our case, our clerk is gone for 6 months. Bish wanted me (exec sec) to take over all the web stuff, but obviously I can't. (That's okay for me!) Bish is on vacation so now we have to "release" the bish counselor from WWA and put someone else (prob me) in that place.

If anyone has clarification, would be nice. Sure would be nice to have all this laid out so we wouldn't have to try and figure it out on our own.

tortdog wrote:Just got off the line with LUS. Apparently only three callings (not people) can make calendaring changes and have online tools at ward level:

* bishop
* clerk
* ward web administrator (WWA)

Each tool on the new lds.org has slightly different access rules but this is definitely not correct for the calender tool. For the calendar tool, all members of the bishopric, the ward clerk, the executive secretary, all assistant ward clerks and the website administrator all have administrative rights. Likewise for the equivalent stake positions for the stake calendar. Having multiple callings provides access given by the union of all callings. One calling doesn't trump any other.

For the Leader and Clerk Resources tool all bishopric members, the ward clerk, the executive secretary, all assistant clerks (except the financial clerk) and equivalent stake positions all have access.

I've verified that all these positions have access in my ward.

Well, she was a very nice sister at LUS. She even called in for backup. So I guess we are back to square one, not knowing how to fix it.

BTW, she had confirmed that I am exec sec in her system. When I login to lds.org, I see no tools for leadership, and no access to the leader web site.

You can see all the rights and roles for the calendar here: Rights and Roles. Specifically, see the Administrators section.

Callings with access rights to Leader and Clerk Resources are listed here.

Thanks, Tom. I will forward that to our stake too for distribution to the units.

So the calling's rights "stack" on each other, sounds like. An exec sec has no admin rights to calendar per

https://tech.lds.org/ldshelp/index.php5 ... /eng#Wards

So that would explain why I am not with calendar rights.

This says that exec sec should have access to Leader and Clerk Resources, but I don't and LUS shows me as exec sec.

https://tech.lds.org/ldshelp/index.php5 ... ces_access

Might try calling them again.

New LUS guy (supervisor) corrected info. Sounds like he's confirming to what this forum is saying. He thinks that somehow my rights were corrupted, and suggested removing the entire exec sec position from MLS, send/receive, then create exec sec again, put my name in and send/receive and see if that would "take".

He confirmed that rights should "stack".

tortdog wrote:Thanks, Tom. I will forward that to our stake too for distribution to the units.

So the calling's rights "stack" on each other, sounds like. An exec sec has no admin rights to calendar per

https://tech.lds.org/ldshelp/index.php5 ... /eng#Wards

So that would explain why I am not with calendar rights.

I think that page is incorrect. Our Exec Sec has admin rights to the calendar and last time I looked at the community version of the source code (which is somewhat out of date but not that far), the Exec Sec did have rights.

tomjohnson1492 wrote:You can see all the rights and roles for the calendar here: Rights and Roles. Specifically, see the Administrators section.

It might be worth having someone regenerate the screen shot with some kind of standard Windows theme and not the green window with the red title bar. I know that someone likes that color scheme, but I know it's not me.

tomjohnson1492 wrote:It will be published either in the LDS Tech articles section or the wiki. I'm actually wondering about the redundancy of information channels. Wiki articles have longer life and serve as reference information, while blogs serve as news channels. Maybe the blog should highlight and excerpt new content from the wiki?

Re the article, I decided to include the information here instead: Leader and Clerk Resources.

@tortdog,
For the new calender, approvers have administrative privileges. An approver is not linked to MLS standard positions. An approver can be member designated by a default approver. The default approvers are linked to standard MLS positions. The only difference between an approver and a default approver is that an approver cannot designate another approver or see the list of other approvers.

Approvers have managing powers for all calendars. The only exception is for private calendars. They can't see or manage events for a private calendar.

The ability for default approvers to designate other approvers greatly enhances the management of the calendar. This enables the unit leadership to be relieved of this responsibility. In this regard the new calendar is much like the classic calendar when it comes to who can manage it.

This is different for the directory. Those who can manage the directory are linked to standard positions in MLS. Members cannot currently be designated to manage the directory like they can in the calendar.

eblood66 wrote:I think that page is incorrect. Our Exec Sec has admin rights to the calendar and last time I looked at the community version of the source code (which is somewhat out of date but not that far), the Exec Sec did have rights.

Re exec sec rights to the calendar, my mistake. It was accidentally left off the list of admin roles in the doc (now that's fixed). Exec secs should have calendar admin rights.

tomjohnson1492 wrote:Re exec sec rights to the calendar, my mistake. It was accidentally left off the list of admin roles in the doc (now that's fixed). Exec secs should have calendar admin rights.

And when you say calendar admin rights you are talking about a default approver, correct?

jdlessley wrote:And when you say calendar admin rights you are talking about a default approver, correct?

You're right. The current calendar doesn't use the term "administrator." The next version will, but I see that I've used a potentially confusing term in the help. I'll update the help to use "default approver" rather than administrator. Thanks,

Tom

tomjohnson1492 wrote:You're right. The current calendar doesn't use the term "administrator." The next version will, but I see that I've used a potentially confusing term in the help. I'll update the help to use "default approver" rather than administrator. Thanks,

Tom

Actually, if you have the ability to change the terms used, I think the term administrator is more appropriate for the current term default approver. That way when there are discussions about administrators (currently default approvers) and approvers there is a differentiation and less confussion. IMHO.

So the terms used with the calendar would, from higher privileges to lower, would be administrator, approver, editor.

Note: If there is further discussion on this topic I will move this post and any that follow to another thread.

jdlessley wrote:Actually, if you have the ability to change the terms used, I think the term administrator is more appropriate for the current term default approver. That way when there are discussions about administrators (currently default approvers) and approvers there is a differentiation and less confussion. IMHO.

That terminology (from approver to administrator) will change in the upcoming re-design release (prob. 3 months).

Maybe this is too "individual" but am updating on the status. Sitting at the ward's computer and deleted the entire row for exec sec. Did a send/receive. Then created a new row for exec sec adding my name in that position. Did a send/receive.

Checked online directory and noted that there was no exec sec (so first change "took"). A few minutes later I had appeared as exec sec online so second change "took". Then went to tools and I have nothing for leaders. Access to http://new.lds.org/leader was also denied.

Logged out and logged back in - same deal.

Did the remove row for exec sec at local MLS again, send/receive, add the position back with my name and send receive. Checked online directory in a few minutes and now there are two exec sec positions (both filled by me). Local MLS only shows one. Still have no access to tools and http://new.lds.org/leader is still access denied for me.

Perhaps someone is trying to tell me something.

tortdog wrote:A few minutes later I had appeared as exec sec online so second change "took". Then went to tools and I have nothing for leaders. Access to http://new.lds.org/leader was also denied.
...
Perhaps someone is trying to tell me something.

You're not doing anything wrong -- you're just making an incorrect assumption. As explained in this post, updates to CDOL happen very quickly (as you are seeing), but access to tools takes a day or two after the callings appear in CDOL.

So leave your calling in MLS and CDOL alone, be patient, and soon you should have access to the tools.

Will advise back in a few days.

One thing to note for developers, though. After I had REMOVED the position exec sec and performed a successful send/receive, I recreated the position and assigned the name. When I did that, it gave me a warning that someone already had this position, and asked a confirmation to remove that person's rights and assign them to the person whom I had selected. Of course I confirmed that decision.

But how could someone have had exec sec rights when the position did not even exist in the MLS at that moment in time? Note that the former exec sec mentioned that he received a notice of editor privileges on the calendar (was assigned to exec sec) but this was after he had been removed from MLS as exec sec and I had been inserted.

It's almost as if MLS thought that the former exec sec still had the calling's privileges, regardless of who was assigned to the calling, and perhaps that's why I as the current exec sec had no rights. Somehow MLS still thought that the released person was still in the calling, so wouldn't assign to me?

Hard to figure out, but trying to give as much useful information as I can.

tortdog wrote:One thing to note for developers, though. . . .

It's almost as if MLS thought that the former exec sec still had the calling's privileges, regardless of who was assigned to the calling, and perhaps that's why I as the current exec sec had no rights. Somehow MLS still thought that the released person was still in the calling, so wouldn't assign to me?

Sometimes MLS gets a little confused and keeps things in its memory until you exit the program completely. Perhaps this is one of those cases.

Writing excellent computer code that totally cleans up after something goes away is a rare art.

Day 2 since I deleted exec sec and recreated the position with my name.

Local unit directory still shows 2 exec sec positions (both with my name), while local MLS shows only 1 (with my name).

My tools on lds.org still do not include any for my calling.

I still get "access denied" at http://new.lds.org/leader.

tortdog wrote:Local unit directory still shows 2 exec sec positions (both with my name), while local MLS shows only 1 (with my name).

And what does CDOL show? Do you have access to CDOL?

Alan_Brown wrote:And what does CDOL show? Do you have access to CDOL?

Yes, I do have access to CDOL. It shows the same as the local unit directory, with two exec secs, both being me.

Below follow the details on each of the duplicate assignments from CDOL:

Last updated by cdol-sys on 12/15/10 6:05 AM

Last updated by cdol-sys on 12/15/10 6:14 AM

tortdog wrote:Day 2 since I deleted exec sec and recreated the position with my name.

Local unit directory still shows 2 exec sec positions (both with my name), while local MLS shows only 1 (with my name).

My tools on lds.org still do not include any for my calling.

I still get "access denied" at http://new.lds.org/leader.

Please continue to update. I'm in a similar position. 5 days and waiting since callings were added in MLS (website administrator and ward assistant clerk) with no change in lds.org tools. Callings appear in directory, access to CDOL ok, but doesn't seem to have "taken" on lds.org.

The techie in our Stake Presidency has advised me that sometimes it seems it takes 4-5 times of submitting the calling before it "takes". He's very technical oriented, and he has not been able to figure out a reason.

He's stumped.

I'm going to just be patient and wait to see if anything changes. In the meantime, I don't have to do as much so all is good!

High Powder wrote:Please continue to update. I'm in a similar position. 5 days and waiting since callings were added in MLS (website administrator and ward assistant clerk) with no change in lds.org tools. Callings appear in directory, access to CDOL ok, but doesn't seem to have "taken" on lds.org.

If you haven't already I'd say you should submit feedback at very least. Even if you rights show up eventually, that's really too long to have to wait.

You may also want to contact LUS. If you don't want to spend the time on the phone then at least an MLS message is probably in order.

LUS informed me that they are receiving multiple reports of similar issues, in which MLS is not synchronizing correctly with lds.org. They are queuing me in to be manually corrected in the next 3 days or so.

Tools are up for me. Not sure if LUS manually fixed it or it just suddenly "took".

Same here. Called and talked to Tier 1 support this morning, but missed the call back from Tier 2. Access has now been granted.

I'm in the same boat -- don't know if it was added manually, or if it just took.

I had the same issue, I was released from my calling

Sunday, MLS was updated
Tuesday, directory shows new calling, but still have access to edit profiles
Thursday, calendar shows new calling, but still have access to the approvers page
Friday the permissions for both directory and calendar take effect

markgnorthcott wrote:Is it the intention of this tool in the future for the stake leadership, bishopric and clerks to be able to control who gets access to the different modules that are available, like it is currently done in MLS?

I would be interested in hearing somebody "in the loop" answer this..or did I miss it?

We've been told that all we have in MLS eventually will be availble via the internet. However, as we see with those tools released so far we are losing control at the stake and ward level of who can access what information.

To rephrase markgnorthcott's question:
Will the future of access to these tools always be based on callings and not on the "preferences" of individual bishops? For example, some units may wish to have only certain people see temple recommend information, as can be the case in MLS. You can select who will see this: Is it your ward clerk, is it your exec. sec., is it both, or is it neither? The bishop has always been able to decide this within MLS. Now, as we expand these internet tools, SLC makes that decision, and seems to favor expanding who can do and see what, from my experience. We are losing this ability on the ward/stake level.

Maybe it's not a problem. Maybe it's the future. Will local control come back?

kisaac wrote:The bishop has always been able to decide this within MLS. Now, as we expand these internet tools, SLC makes that decision, and seems to favor expanding who can do and see what, from my experience.

It suppose that depends on the particular issue and on the bishop. In many cases, the online privileges are more restrictive.

kisaac wrote:Will local control come back?

My assumption is that there will be no features to delegate online control back to bishops. If there has been such a hint, I have missed it, too.

kisaac wrote:Maybe it's not a problem. Maybe it's the future. Will local control come back?

We have to remember that desktop MLS (or classic MLS, depending on who you talk to) will still be around and have the same functionality as we have to come to be familiar with. The modules being developed for the internet will evolve over time. We are not losing anything. We are gaining the ability to access information, and in some cases make changes, to the database from a web interface. So in this respect local control was never lost.

When the confidential information is made available on the Internet there has to be more restrictive measures employed to ensure the data will remain secure. Eventually we may see access approaching the same as we now enjoy at the clerk computer.

tortdog wrote:The techie in our Stake Presidency has advised me that sometimes it seems it takes 4-5 times of submitting the calling before it "takes". He's very technical oriented, and he has not been able to figure out a reason.

He's stumped.

I'm going to just be patient and wait to see if anything changes. In the meantime, I don't have to do as much so all is good!

(Picked this post to quote to show trying to get the conversation back to updating CDOL and access rights rather than the local control issue beginning to play out. With that "disclaimer", I'll share an interesting first person story that has since resolved, so no further action is requested, but if it helps another . . .)

We recently changed units (same stake) and the process seemed very drawn out and perhaps not exactly what was intended. Our "records" moved appropriately quickly (24-48 hours) on the classic site. Our house marker for our new address (in maps) moved, but it was still "assigned" to the old unit. Even our old unit's callings/permissions remained in the leader portal, CDOL, etc (for a period, I saw I had calendar approval privledges in the new unit, which would have be appropriate in my old unit, but not (yet?) in the new one).

Our names eventually (several days) migrated to the new unit on the new lds.org directory. But the callings and associated accesses remained with the old unit for up to 10 days. CDOL went away first (still showed up in Tools, but then it presented "you have no permission" or similar).

Now everything is in order. It is interesting to wonder why/how that happened, and whether member moves are usually so convoluted (I expect not).

Alan.Richardson wrote:(
We recently changed units (same stake) and the process seemed very drawn out and perhaps not exactly what was intended. Our "records" moved appropriately quickly (24-48 hours) on the classic site. Our house marker for our new address (in maps) moved, but it was still "assigned" to the old unit. Even our old unit's callings/permissions remained in the leader portal, CDOL, etc (for a period, I saw I had calendar approval privledges in the new unit, which would have be appropriate in my old unit, but not (yet?) in the new one).

Our names eventually (several days) migrated to the new unit on the new lds.org directory. But the callings and associated accesses remained with the old unit for up to 10 days. CDOL went away first (still showed up in Tools, but then it presented "you have no permission" or similar).

Now everything is in order. It is interesting to wonder why/how that happened, and whether member moves are usually so convoluted (I expect not).

For the most part that makes sense. The membership records don't move until the clerk sends them. I was called as a ward clerk after a ward split and it took a few days to get together with the old ward clerk to get keys and MLS access. As the membership is moved MLS releases people that are moving from their callings. This will go up to CDOL with the next send/receive (I'm not sure if it is the same one as the membership changes or the next one). Once the callings are removed from CDOL you would see the "you have no permission" message in CDOL. The Tools menu and other rights in lds.org take the 2-3 days to replicate, so you would have rights there until it gets cleaned out.

I read through this thread as it seemed the most likely to help me but still have a question:

I need a membership record quickly for someone moving into our ward.

I asked my membership clerk to request the record which he did last evening.

Will I be able to see the membership record in my ward list from the "tools" "membership" tabs at home when they arrive, or do we need to do a "send/receive" at the Church before I can see them at home?

This is a good question and I will be interested in the answer. If it is there, you can use the "member lookup" on the Leader and Clerk Resources to see the record by using the "print" link. The Membership Records link under Tools is still under development.

TinMan wrote:Will I be able to see the membership record in my ward list from the "tools" "membership" tabs at home when they arrive, or do we need to do a "send/receive" at the Church before I can see them at home?

I have seen records online that are waiting to come down to MLS on the next send/receive, and then seen them show up in MLS after the next send/receive. So you should be able to see them as soon as the records move.

Thanks.

That is helpful.

Thank you Ryan:

It worked just like you said.

That was very nice. Saved me and my ward clerk a few trips to the Church!

I just found that the new release of the leader and clerk resources now includes a page that shows who has access to which sections of the application.

JonesRK wrote:I just found that the new release of the leader and clerk resources now includes a page that shows who has access to which sections of the application.

As a STS, I have access to the leader portal, but not to that page that explains who has access.

RussellHltn wrote:As a STS, I have access to the leader portal, but not to that page that explains who has access.

STS's aren't on the list in the chart, Assistant Stake Clerks and Assistant Stake Clerks - Membership are listed. Also it looks like it is more relating to the MLS type features rather than all of the leader tools.

Do we have access yet for assistant exec secretaries or asst ward clerks yet? Also, I have a young women's secretary that has no access rights...What is the current status for this issue?

brsod2000 wrote:Do we have access yet for assistant exec secretaries or asst ward clerks yet? Also, I have a young women's secretary that has no access rights...What is the current status for this issue?

Assistant ward clerks have access (except for financial clerks).

But there is no standard calling for an assistant ward executive secretary (see the thread Assistant Ward Executive Secretary can't view lds.org/leader) and so such a person has no access.

There is currently no access for any quorum or auxiliary leaders, which would include the YW secretary. The timing of future plans is rather vague, but the FAQ says: "Quorum and auxiliary leaders will also have access to information needed in their callings in the future. "

Do you know when phase 2 will complete?

The YSA ward Bishop Counselors in our stake do not have access to the lds.org Leader resources. They are both out-of-unit members of the YSA ward. How do we get them access to these parts of the website?

Thanks.

larry19810 wrote:The YSA ward Bishop Counselors in our stake do not have access to the lds.org Leader resources. They are both out-of-unit members of the YSA ward. How do we get them access to these parts of the website?

Thanks.

Since they were sent up to CDOL Sunday night after the data export ran they won't have access until Tuesday morning.