store.lds.org

I've been probing into the new website for the clerks in my stake, this year we've turned over about 15 of the 17 and this will be the first time that any of them have completed the curriculum order. I wanted avoid the surprise that I got as a new ward clerk when I was charged $200 or so for a Priesthood/Relief Society 2nd year order and wasn't aware it was coming.

In the process of talking through issues (for instance the Stake Clerk can't order for the stake online) It became clear that the programming behind the store is more complex than I thought. In the past with the unit login, as long as you have that unit login you can order material. Now, with the ability to use the MLS positions only the Stake President can order certain items, only the presidency can order other items, and so on.

I can see the issues already, the Stake Presidency will be asking me to order things online, and they won't even show up under my MLS position. At least in the past there was a message that said... only the Stake President can do this. Also, I have very large issue with this going forward because I see my responsibility as a clerk to reduce/relieve the administrative burden of the Stake Presidency, like ordering materials online. But if only they can do it, we're seeming to move in the wrong direction. Even in my previous example, I prepared a request for a Book1 or Book 2 and faxed the letter. The only thing the Stake President needed to do was sign the request.

I hope I'm making something out of nothing, but how much time do we really want ecclesiastical leaders ordering sacrament cups.

I agree. Many of these things are only exacerbating the problems of overburdened bishops and stake presidents, not to mention other ward and stake leadership.

The clerks, are being instructed by ecclesiastical leaders to take on as much administrative responsibility as possible so that the bishops and stake presidents can concentrate on ministering.This is especially true with new bishops and stake presidents who are struggling to learn and fulfill all of their duties.

Under the new LDS store it also restricts ordering ward materials to only the bishop, counselors and the ward clerk, making it impossible to assign material ordering to an assistant clerk or allow an auxiliary leader to order needed supplies.

It's obvious that there's a great deal of disagreement with the direction of the new church catalog site (store.lds.org). However, we need to keep our comments constructive in nature. Feedback is encouraged as long as it is in agreement with the Code of Conduct.

One of the best methods of reporting issues with the new store.lds.org site is to use the feedback feature on the site itself in addition to reporting it in the forum.

My Feedback has been placed online, with an individual that I called because I tried to order some material at the request of the Stake President and couldn't online, and then it got me thinking about the calling, and how the technology (I perceive) is moving certain aspects of the calling of administrative leaders (clerks, exec sec) and the training I receive for those callings. As an example, from the slide deck for the Training: "Role of the Ward Clerk"

The service of a diligent clerk relieves a great burden from the bishop and allows him to focus on ministering to members.

This becomes the great challenge of every clerk—to seek the Lord’s guidance in knowing how he can lighten the administrative burden of the bishop.

Follow the Lord’s counsel to “do many things of [your] own free will, and bring to pass much righteousness.”

I can understand limiting the ordering online to a specific group, and I can see leaving out auxiliary leaders and assistant clerks from the ordering. An individual like that can still take the lead in getting the order together, as a clerk, I would then enter the order online. That doesn't seem to me to add to my burden.

jshawut wrote:I tried to order some material at the request of the Stake President and couldn't online

So I'm curious -- were you able to order the material over the phone that you couldn't order online? Are the policies for who can order materials different for online vs phone orders?

jshawut wrote:I can understand limiting the ordering online to a specific group, and I can see leaving out auxiliary leaders and assistant clerks from the ordering. An individual like that can still take the lead in getting the order together, as a clerk, I would then enter the order online. That doesn't seem to me to add to my burden.

Just as a bishop or stake president can authorize assistant clerks to process missionary applications, they should be able authorize whoever they choose to be able to place orders for materials from Distribution Services. Many wards and stakes have called assistant clerks whose main responsibility is to order materials needed by the Unit. Since all local unit orders were automatically shipped to the bishop or stake president, and I would expect that orders charged to a local unit will continue to be shipped to the bishop or branch president, it still achieves the need for the bishop or stake president to know what is being charged to the local unit.

rpyne wrote:Just as a bishop or stake president can authorize assistant clerks to process missionary applications, they should be able authorize whoever they choose to be able to place orders for materials from Distribution Services. Many wards and stakes have called assistant clerks whose main responsibility is to order materials needed by the Unit. Since all local unit orders were automatically shipped to the bishop or stake president, and I would expect that orders charged to a local unit will continue to be shipped to the bishop or branch president, it still achieves the need for the bishop or stake president to know what is being charged to the local unit.

A couple of days ago I sent feedback to the store.lds.org site explaining that the CHI (2006 Book 1 p. 141) actually specifically mentions that an assistant clerk is typically given this responsibility, so the site permissions should conform to policy (and common practice). It seems to me that adding a whole new mechanism for giving explicit authorization might be more work than the development team wants to devote to it, but simply allowing all assistant clerks to order unit materials seems reasonable.

It would be interesting to know if the upcoming CHI (2010 Book 1) will be changing any related policies regarding these duties and delegation.

kgthunder wrote:It would be interesting to know if the upcoming CHI (2010 Book 1) will be changing any related policies regarding these duties and delegation.

Not impossible, but not likely. I don't think the principle of having clerks run the "mechanics" of the ward to free up the Bishop for the spiritual leadership has changed. Only in certain cases of something highly confidential or sensitive would they require the Bishop to do it.

However, there have been a number of betas that have rolled out with incomplete permission settings. I link store.lds.org is just following that pattern.

RussellHltn wrote: However, there have been a number of betas that have rolled out with incomplete permission settings. I link store.lds.org is just following that pattern.

Why is that? Is it more technically difficult, a policy decision, or are the other callings simply overlooked? Shouldn't there be checklists or requirements that need to be followed rather than leaving it up to developer memories? I'm still looking for the Standardized Calling for Sacrament Meeting Program Specialist in MLS.

- Atticus

atticusewig wrote:Why is that?

Why not?

It's just a pattern I've noticed. I don't know why it's done that way.

I would guess that if it were required to have everything in place before it's rolled out to beta, it would be longer before it reached beta and before they got feedback from real users.

aebrown wrote:A couple of days ago I sent feedback to the store.lds.org site explaining that the CHI (2006 Book 1 p. 141) actually specifically mentions that an assistant clerk is typically given this responsibility, so the site permissions should conform to policy (and common practice). It seems to me that adding a whole new mechanism for giving explicit authorization might be more work than the development team wants to devote to it, but simply allowing all assistant clerks to order unit materials seems reasonable.

I haven't visited store.lds.org in a while, but when I visited the site this morning I happily noticed that as an assistant clerk I can now order administrative materials at the stake level, including the Staples link for office supplies. I can even order the Cisco ASA 5505 Firewall; I don't know if all assistant stake clerks can order that or just those who are stake technology specialists, but that's a good change.

GreenwoodKL wrote:It would be interesting to know if the upcoming CHI (2010 Book 1) will be changing any related policies regarding these duties and delegation.

The new Handbook still mentions that an assistant stake clerk can be designated to help with Church materials (see 13.3.3 in Handbook 1).

aebrown wrote:So I'm curious -- were you able to order the material over the phone that you couldn't order online? Are the policies for who can order materials different for online vs phone orders?

I haven't checked in the past few weeks, but when I tried to order Bishop's Storehouse orders as requested by my bishop, I was informed that if there was anything I could not order online as a Clerk, I could call and order. So the rules are different between online and via telephone orders. This strikes me as exactly backwards to what it should be since when I am online, the system verifies my identity via my login yet I could call and pretend to be anyone and order anything.