Antivirus solutions

60 postsstarted by brado426 31,134 viewsoriginal topic

Member
#1

Norton Anti-Virus = Not a good thing

I just wanted to agree with Enrique regarding Norton Anti-Virus. In my professional experience, it is the worst virus scanner ever created. Norton Internet Security as a suite is even worse.

These product slow down PC's significantly. When I encounter someone using NIS that is complaining of slowness, my first recommendation is to uninstall Norton Internet Security and switch to something that does not negatively affect the user's experience.

Trend Micro's virus scanner does an excellent job of remaining invisible while still offering the necessary protection.

This is not an advertisement for Trend Micro (I have no affiliation with this company).... just my personal experience.

Brad O.
Community Administrator
#2
There's Norton (typically marketed to the home market) and there's Symantec (I think typically marketed to the business market). The two are not the same even though they come from the same company. In other words, please do not confuse Norton Anti-virus with Symantec Anti-virus.
Have you searched the Help Center? Try doing a Google search and adding "site:churchofjesuschrist.org/help" to the search criteria.

So we can better help you, please edit your Profile to include your general location.
Member
#3
Ah... I'm glad you clarified that. I am only speaking from my experience with Norton Anti-Virus (apparently the home-marketed version.)
Senior Member
#4
I subscribe to PCWorld magazine, and they have the exact opposite preferences for antivirus software than you do, brado426. Perhaps Symantec/Norton has really improved their latest version. I also thought it was interesting their low rating of TrendMicro's software. I've never used it myself. Just thought the results were interesting.

http://www.pcworld.com/article/id,13086 ... ticle.html

Russell, I know what you are talking about regarding Symantec/Norton, but in this article they refer to it by both names. Do you know if the company is trying to shake the split image?
Community Moderators
#5
As for one who has used most of the name brands (Trend-Micro, McAfee, Norton, Symantic, AVG) the least intrusive was AVG and only during the daily system scan (from 1 to 6 am) would I notice any affect from it (Most it would use it 2% CPU and 30 MB of memory). Nice thing is that for home use AVG's scanner is free. Also Trend-Micro wouldn't uninstall which was annoying. Both McAfee and Norton in my experence slow down the computer because it was constantly scanning the hard disk, virtual memory and the operations of the executing programs.

Anyway that is my experences with these programs and it is only posted here as an informative comparision and not as a promotion. If it helps my computer is a P4-D 3 GHz 1 GB 4200 DDR2 with 750 GB of hard disk space running windows xp (or vista sometimes).
- David
Member
#6
mkmurray wrote:I subscribe to PCWorld magazine, and they have the exact opposite preferences for antivirus software than you do, brado426. Perhaps Symantec/Norton has really improved their latest version. I also thought it was interesting their low rating of TrendMicro's software. I've never used it myself. Just thought the results were interesting.

http://www.pcworld.com/article/id,13086 ... ticle.html

Russell, I know what you are talking about regarding Symantec/Norton, but in this article they refer to it by both names. Do you know if the company is trying to shake the split image?

I think PC World is taking bribes from Symantec or something, because every exposure I have ever had to it has been disastrous. :)

Brad O.
Senior Member
#7
brado426 wrote:I think PC World is taking bribes from Symantec or something, because every exposure I have ever had to it has been disastrous. :)

Brad O.
I wouldn't be surprised if there is a little financial messaging of some of the rankings.
Senior Member
#8
I have been at my FHC and the combination of the antivirus and the filtering program for FHCs are very effective. No slowups on even the old castoff PCs they often get, not even on the one Dell XP box they have either.

Someone from Ancestry was speaking about things at the PAF user group meeting some time back here and he advised against using AVG because of spyware that allegedly came with it. Not a really bad spyware item, but one that should be taken seriously nonetheless. One of the spyware trappers I run has AVG in their database of known spyware spreaders.
Senior Member
#9
JamesAnderson wrote:I have been at my FHC and the combination of the antivirus and the filtering program for FHCs are very effective. No slowups on even the old castoff PCs they often get, not even on the one Dell XP box they have either.

Someone from Ancestry was speaking about things at the PAF user group meeting some time back here and he advised against using AVG because of spyware that allegedly came with it. Not a really bad spyware item, but one that should be taken seriously nonetheless. One of the spyware trappers I run has AVG in their database of known spyware spreaders.
Do you happen to know more information about the AVG spyware component? I have installed AVG in the past and would like to verify that it has been completely removed.
Community Administrator
#10
mkmurray wrote:Russell, I know what you are talking about regarding Symantec/Norton, but in this article they refer to it by both names. Do you know if the company is trying to shake the split image?
No clue. My experience is with "Symantec Antivirus" (corporate edition). I've found it acceptable. It can slow things down during boot-up and just afterwords as it tends to do a start-up scan. Once that's done, I've not had any major problems with performance. I have had to set exceptions to keep it's hands out of SQL data files as I've had some cases where SQL catches Symantec with it's hands on the file and it corrupts the file.

What the church is having us load is the same product.


I notice what's sold in the stores is "Norton". I've also heard from other users that the business and home versions are different and the experiences are quite different.
Have you searched the Help Center? Try doing a Google search and adding "site:churchofjesuschrist.org/help" to the search criteria.

So we can better help you, please edit your Profile to include your general location.
Member
#11
Slowness after booting is one of my many complaints regarding Norton Internet Security. In most circumstances, it has taken about a minute for NIS to finish its startup tasks and actually let the user begin working. This is unacceptable behavior, in my opinion.

My second major complaint is that NIS's Office/Outlook Integration is buggy and causes Office to crash on exit, etc.... Disabling the e-mail integration always fixes this problem.
Community Moderators
#12

Hmmmmm

Being mainly a Mac user, I don't run any virus/spyware protection! :D However on certain PC's that I work on, I install AVG, because it's light and free! On my own Personal Windows machine, I don't use AV, I'm just careful, however I do most all of my surfing on my Mac.

Norton has been infamously tagged as Bloatware, however the Tech Guru Leo Laporte recently was saying that the newest version of Norton is a lot better than it used to be. My brother-in-law who works for a large Fortune 500 company as a network guy said they use Symantec Corporate Edition, and that it's not too taxing on their systems.
#13

CNET 2007 antivirus performance test scores

mkmurray wrote:I subscribe to PCWorld magazine, and they have the exact opposite preferences for antivirus software than you do, brado426.

IMHO PCWorld mag is more of a catalog than a magazine. They appear to favor their advertisers in their "objective" reviews.

Check out this CNET review:

CNET 2007 antivirus performance test scores
http://reviews.cnet.com/4520-6600_7-665 ... ?tag=sc.tf

What's interesting is Kaspersky Anti-Virus 6 does the best from a performance standpoint. The interesting part is the software the Church had used it previously, think it was called Command-C, it used the Kaspersky engine.

So I guess what I am saying is we've been spoiled all along. Now we have enlisted the services of a dog slow anti-virus solution. :confused:
"What have I done for someone today?" Thomas Monson
Community Moderators
#14
JamesAnderson wrote:Someone from Ancestry was speaking about things at the PAF user group meeting some time back here and he advised against using AVG because of spyware that allegedly came with it. Not a really bad spyware item, but one that should be taken seriously nonetheless. One of the spyware trappers I run has AVG in their database of known spyware spreaders.

I have a sperate spyware scanner and it doesn't list AVG as a spyware component. Anyway that I could verify that?
- David
Member
#15
What about Panda? Or better yet considering a different operating sytstem like what was mentioned by Tomj use the Mac operating system?

I just had a thought. I am not permoting products. Just an observation. Schools throughout America all use to be 90% Mac then someone decided to go PC. Then madness began. It has costs the schools a small fortune to keep the PC up and running. They require maintance daily with registry fix just to keep them running error free. Now they throw the machines away when one breaks. Labor is too high to repair. Throw away society? I know that some landfills can be see from space now. :DJust a side note.

Our local principle showed me the cost of the Mac's new in the late 80's and then the cost of todays PC even with the low price the maintance and labor to keep them up and running is great. Mac's are more initial cost but in the long run less costly due to low break downs and maintance issues.

There are pros and cons to everything, nothing is perfect in our present condition. Reliability and productivitly is key though to be successful in a perverse and corrupt generation. Microsoft operating systems seem to be the most targeted.

Just a few thoughts.

Am I in left field here:confused:
Community Moderators
#16
Mr. Techno wrote:What about Panda? Or better yet considering a different operating sytstem like what was mentioned by Tomj use the Mac operating system?

...

There are pros and cons to everything, nothing is perfect in our present condition. Reliability and productivitly is key though to be successful in a perverse and corrupt generation. Microsoft operating systems seem to be the most targeted.

Just a few thoughts.

Am I in left field here:confused:
(It is not my intent to start an OS war. Respect for differing opinions and the people who hold them is very important.)

Another potentially advantageous alternative would be Linux or some other Unix-like OS. In most cases, this could use existing hardware, it would basically eliminate the need for the current problematic anti-virus stuff, and many in the industry would consider a properly administered Unix-like system to have significant security advantages over the current setup.

One nice thing with MLS being based on Java is it can run on a wide variety of systems.

In other threads, mention has been made that more local people are familiar with the current OS. I would suggest that there may be more local people than would meet the eye who are competent to provide local support for Linux or other Unix-like systems or who are willing to learn.
Senior Member
#17
rmrichesjr wrote:I would suggest that there may be more local people than would meet the eye who are competent to provide local support for Linux or other Unix-like systems or who are willing to learn.

I'm amazed at how user friendly the GUI's are getting for some Linux distros like Ubuntu, etc. I believe it's getting close to the time where any average Windows user would feel comfortable with a switch to Linux.
Member
#18
Thanks rmrichesjr, I agree and feel the same. I also do not want to start an OS war. I have a respect for differing opinions and the people who hold them. I was just making an observation. I am in no way trying to put down or make fun of what anyone is doing. Everyone is important and can contribute.

I was in a lab and was using some lab computers that I thought were running on windows but later found out they were running on Linux. The GUI (graphics user interface) made Linux very friendly.

I did not know it was Linux OS. I agree It is getting better and better.
Member
#19
I appreciate the fact that the church appears to try to stick with technology that typical businesses use. In my opinion, doing this helps keep costs down and standards in-line.
New Member
#20

Virus Avoidance

I would encourage anyone concerned with virus and like problems to try linux (fedora, debian,knoppix, ubunto, kubunto all excellent). Just as important as using first rate tools is learning and training to understand how to use the tools . The comunity has a lot of howtos and kindly folks willing to help those willing to learn.

I switched to linux in 1998. There are things I have had to do without because of my decision but I have not regreted the changeover. For the most part the family has switched as well although the people wanting the latest games have been disappointed. Users in my home range in age from 3 to old. The things everone needs are there - some plugins, video things and games are lacking or limited but those tools are not central to why we have computers in our home.

So far I've had no (zero) virus problems or breakins.

good luck in your adventures

oscar
New Member
#21
i have serval installed on home computers first one for my laptop and wife is kaspersky and the home server and dns server i use avg as that is nice and light then i use avg for the fedora and ubuntu servers i have running,

I do suggest using fedora or ubuntu as they are great and if you want to run windows programs with in linux use a program called Wine :D ive used it for ages now and get a good running from them.
New Member
#22

A word of caution

I do a lot of work with computer software and use macs and pc's with Linux and Windows on a daily basis. If there's one thing I can tell you it's that simply changing your operating system will not eliminate viruses. As much as I like Linux, there is absolutely no reason I have ever found that makes it any more secure than other OS's (out of the box, customized is naturally a different story). Obviously a smaller user group (as with Macs as well) make it a much smaller target. However, remember, the servers that you hear about being hacked in the news are often running some verion of Linux Server OS, so Linux does get hacked too. I like Linux just as much as the next guy, but please don't be fooled into believing it's invincible.

Dispite common opinion, Windows and OS X are very well done Operating Systems, even Vista. There's always room for improvement, but you have to remember all code has bugs. Keep your system up-to-date, put a good AV on it, and be smart in you usage and you'll drastically reduce your risks. I've never had a virus on my Windows machine (running XP), and that's more than 6 years of operation.

As for what virus scanner to use, I would just say this. You can read 10 different articles on which one is the best and get 10 different answers. The biggest thing I look for is how often they update their definitions. That's the biggest key for me, and last I check that was Kasp. You have to expect that your computer is going to slow down with any AV. Viruses are getting extremely complicated and it's getting harder and harder to detect them, especially with the advent of Virtualization. This being the case, you're going to get slow downs (especially with the ridiculous reluctance to develop software to utilize multiple CPUs). You've just got to get past that. If it slows you down too much, it might be time to upgrade. Probably not what people want to think about in today's economy, but that's technology.

All this being said, and knowing full well some of you might not agree, you've got to decide for yourself what to use. But the key things to look for, IMO, are the frequency of updates, turn around for updates (how long it takes them to release a detection for new viruses), and then performance hit. Obviously cost is a factor, and cheap/free is nice, but you have to judge what the cost is of losing data by going with junk software verses the price of higher grade software.

Just my $.02. Feel free to ignore if you don't like it.
Community Moderators
#23
eeyore wrote:...

Just my $.02. Feel free to ignore if you don't like it.
Okay. As many of your assertions are inconsistent with my experience and learning, I'll ignore them.

(Disclaimer: Just my personal opinion, not acting in any official capacity.)
Community Administrator
#24
eeyore wrote:If there's one thing I can tell you it's that simply changing your operating system will not eliminate viruses.
...
Keep your system up-to-date, put a good AV on it, and be smart in you usage and you'll drastically reduce your risks.
...
But the key things to look for, IMO, are the frequency of updates, turn around for updates, and then performance hit.
Thanks for sharing your insights. It's always good to reexamine our assumptions regarding virus protection -- regardless of what may have been reasonable thinking a few years ago, we need to keep our technology current to stay ahead of the innovations by the bad guys. You've given us some good food for thought.
Questions that can benefit the larger community should be asked in a public forum, not a private message.
Community Moderators
#25
eeyore wrote:Just my $.02. Feel free to ignore if you don't like it.
Not at all, I thought it was very well put.

I feel a similar thing is happening on the Firefox v IE front. Every time FF came out then IE would get slaughtered but when FF3 came out and promised huge increase in loading time it felt very "flat" to realise it was only milliseconds. The no 1 reason I use FF is because of add-on's and that slows it right down so reality v theory are 2 different things. And funny enough the emergence of the latest IE version and its better security and faster millisecond loading time than FF has not received the same amount of attention online and in the media.

Its a shame when some product fans try to "overstate" their claims. They simply loose credibility and trust which is a real shame when they do have some great products on their side.
New Member
#26
I've been using Avast for the last few years and have been amazed at what it finds compared to Norton. #1 feature: free!
Community Moderators
#27
(Disclaimer: This is my personal opinion, not acting in any official capacity.)

I had earlier thought it best to not post any detail lest it be seen as arguing. However, I think it is important that two facts be stated on the topic of security of different operating systems.

First, if I am informed correctly, there is not one single virus in the wild that affects Linux. There may be exploits against specific applications but not an actual virus against the OS itself.

Second, the antivirus software available for Linux has only one purpose, to remove Windows viruses from email messages going through.
Senior Member
#28
eeyore wrote:Obviously a smaller user group (as with Macs as well) make it a much smaller target. However, remember, the servers that you hear about being hacked in the news are often running some verion of Linux Server OS, so Linux does get hacked too. I like Linux just as much as the next guy, but please don't be fooled into believing it's invincible.
Linux is not invincible because we leave in a FUZZY (not bivalent) world. So "everything is a matter of quantity".
How many server run Linux? How many windows? How many Linux servers fail under attack, and how many windows servers does?
Your resoning could be rigth for desktop market (could be) but my question is: Why no one try a porting of viruses? If they work for Windows, and Windows is almost the same of Linux, why sould be so difficult to port it?
Dispite common opinion, Windows and OS X are very well done Operating Systems, even Vista. There's always room for improvement, but you have to remember all code has bugs. Keep your system up-to-date, put a good AV on it, and be smart in you usage and you'll drastically reduce your risks. I've never had a virus on my Windows machine (running XP), and that's more than 6 years of operation.
I don't know very well OS X story, but Windows! The great improvement went with Linux success (Win 98 -> Win XP).
All this being said, and knowing full well some of you might not agree, you've got to decide for yourself what to use. But the key things to look for, IMO, are the frequency of updates, turn around for updates
OS too!
There is a fact that show the big difference between Ms an nix worlds: Microsoft sale an Antivirus but none of Linux distro.
Just my $.02. Feel free to ignore if you don't like it.
The same for my notes
La vita è una lezione interminabile di umiltà (Anonimo).
Life is a endless lesson of humility (Anonimous).
New Member
#29
rmrichesjr wrote:(Disclaimer: This is my personal opinion, not acting in any official capacity.)

I had earlier thought it best to not post any detail lest it be seen as arguing. However, I think it is important that two facts be stated on the topic of security of different operating systems.
Expressing one's opinion is not arguing. I think we should each be able to express our point-of-view and feelings on a matter without feeling that the other person is being disrespectful. I had no problem with your original post. Everyone's mileage varies!
First, if I am informed correctly, there is not one single virus in the wild that affects Linux. There may be exploits against specific applications but not an actual virus against the OS itself.
I don't know of any current viruses, but I know of several past viruses. The issue with viruses on a Linux machine is small due to the use of standard and root users. Since viruses can only run at the same level as the user who runs them, viruses on the Linux side are difficult, but not impossible, to write and be effective.

That being said, nearly the exact same thing can be done and set up on a Windows XP machine. If you want a virtually virus free windows computer, create an Administrator account that you only use to install software and make major changes to the system. Run all your applications and everyday stuff through a limited account. By simply doing that, you'll eliminate 95-99% of all possible scenarios in which a virus may be installed on your computer. Combine that with a fully patched OS and up-to-date AV software and you're set. You're obviously still susceptible to some viruses, but you've dramatically reduced the number.

This is why I feel switching OS's isn't all that necessary. With XP running in this fashion, I don't see Linux being all that much safer, but again, that's just me. :)
Second, the antivirus software available for Linux has only one purpose, to remove Windows viruses from email messages going through.
I'd disagree that it has only one purpose, but due to the use of Linux in server applications, it certainly is used to scan emails and such destined for Windows machines. There are A/V programs out there that do much more than that, such as ClamAV and Panda.

Now, all that being said, I am well aware of the fact that Linux does not suffer from a very big virus problem. The majority of Linux issues come with hacking, not viruses. Again, it's all proportions. Windows has a much larger share in the home and personal computing sectors, so it's a much larger target for viruses and malware. Linux, on the other hand, has a much larger share in the enterprise and networking sectors, so it suffers from hacking attacks. The problem with the hacking is that if you've been hacked, they have root access and your entire computer is at their mercy. To me, that's a little more scary than a virus that just slows things down.

So, Windows vs. Linux, who knows. IMO, use whatever you want, but realize either is only as safe as you make it. Besides, I only own Macs, so what do I really know? ;)
New Member
#30
dkjorgi wrote:Not at all, I thought it was very well put.

I feel a similar thing is happening on the Firefox v IE front. Every time FF came out then IE would get slaughtered but when FF3 came out and promised huge increase in loading time it felt very "flat" to realise it was only milliseconds. The no 1 reason I use FF is because of add-on's and that slows it right down so reality v theory are 2 different things. And funny enough the emergence of the latest IE version and its better security and faster millisecond loading time than FF has not received the same amount of attention online and in the media.

Its a shame when some product fans try to "overstate" their claims. They simply loose credibility and trust which is a real shame when they do have some great products on their side.
Yeah, the browser war is certainly becoming interesting. With the advent and increasing popularity of netbooks, it will become even more interesting. I'm just waiting for a browser called "patience". We probably all need a little of that when it comes to our computers. :)
New Member
#31
marianomarini_vi wrote:Linux is not invincible because we leave in a FUZZY (not bivalent) world. So "everything is a matter of quantity".
How many server run Linux? How many windows? How many Linux servers fail under attack, and how many windows servers does?
Your resoning could be rigth for desktop market (could be) but my question is: Why no one try a porting of viruses? If they work for Windows, and Windows is almost the same of Linux, why sould be so difficult to port it?
Actually, a lot of focus now is on making viruses that run as small hypervisors in a virtualized environment. Key viruses recently have shown the capability to reside in the BIOS and persist after reboot. There you're living in an OS independent environment and very few security programs will be able to catch you, much less remove you. It then becomes an issue of CPU architecture support rather than OS version. Windows, OS X, Linux, doesn't matter. Just need to support Intel or AMD's HV architectures, or worse, support both.
I don't know very well OS X story, but Windows! The great improvement went with Linux success (Win 98 -> Win XP).
Agreed. I think XP is a very good OS, despite all the bugs, and certainly better than 98.
OS too!
There is a fact that show the big difference between Ms an nix worlds: Microsoft sale an Antivirus but none of Linux distro.
Yeah, Microsoft certainly needs to be a little quicker in the turnaround on patches. Personally, I'm a little disappointed in Apple for this too. And I'll hand it to Linux. Several of their distro's are very good about this.
Member
#32

Malewarebytes.org

If you haven't seen Malwarebytes.org you should check it out, its the only malware application I have used for a couple years and I have had zero problems. The "free" version suffices, it just requires you to run scans manually.

Still no problems...
Mr. M
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Visit me virtually anytime. ;)

http://www.mariohipol.com
Community Administrator
#33
eeyore wrote:If you want a virtually virus free windows computer, create an Administrator account that you only use to install software and make major changes to the system. Run all your applications and everyday stuff through a limited account. By simply doing that, you'll eliminate 95-99% of all possible scenarios in which a virus may be installed on your computer.
This study puts the number at 92%. Still an impressive number.


The biggest problem with trying to run Windows this way is that Administrator is a separate account and many times software will only put things in for the person doing the installing, not everyone. That and the fact many don't follow the rules properly and end up breaking if you run them with less than admin privileges. Fortunatly Vista compatibility is fixing that.

Yes, it's safer, but in my experience, you need to be a computer expert to successfully do that. Even then it will try one's patience.

One of the key components is to keep up to date with patches. Not just for the OS, but for all the common apps and plug-ins. That's a real pain.

I'd suggest everyone go to to Secunia.com and run a on-line scan on your system. Unless you've really been aggressive with all of your apps, you'll probably find something is out of date on your machine. I'm not sure if the service works for Mac or *nix. It's worth a try. The average user probably has outdated and venerable Java and Adobe/Macromedia Flash apps installed.

It's been a few years, but I remember seeing one "virus" going around that attacked the Java plug-in and would run on all platforms.
Have you searched the Help Center? Try doing a Google search and adding "site:churchofjesuschrist.org/help" to the search criteria.

So we can better help you, please edit your Profile to include your general location.
New Member
#34
RussellHltn wrote:This study puts the number at 92%. Still an impressive number.
Thanks for the update. I knew it was in the 90's area, but I guess I thought it was a little higher. But like you said, still impressive.
The biggest problem with trying to run Windows this way is that Administrator is a separate account and many times software will only put things in for the person doing the installing, not everyone. That and the fact many don't follow the rules properly and end up breaking if you run them with less than admin privileges. Fortunatly Vista compatibility is fixing that.

Yes, it's safer, but in my experience, you need to be a computer expert to successfully do that. Even then it will try one's patience.

One of the key components is to keep up to date with patches. Not just for the OS, but for all the common apps and plug-ins. That's a real pain.
Very true. It would then just be a question of worth in running Windows in this fashion so you can use more applications you might be familiar with, or switching to some version of Linux and climbing that learning curve (the grade of that learning curve is getting much smaller IMO, but it's still a personal thing). As for me, I run Windows as a virtual machine on my Mac and don't connect it to the internet. That's just what works for me.
I'd suggest everyone go to to Secunia.com and run a on-line scan on your system. Unless you've really been aggressive with all of your apps, you'll probably find something is out of date on your machine. I'm not sure if the service works for Mac or *nix. It's worth a try. The average user probably has outdated and venerable Java and Adobe/Macromedia Flash apps installed.

It's been a few years, but I remember seeing one "virus" going around that attacked the Java plug-in and would run on all platforms.
Yeah, virtualization platforms, as great as they are, is getting a lot of scrutiny on the security front. The idea is great, but man the possible exploits are scary as all get out.
Senior Member
#35
eeyore wrote:Actually, a lot of focus now is on making viruses that run as small hypervisors in a virtualized environment. Key viruses recently have shown the capability to reside in the BIOS and persist after reboot. There you're living in an OS independent environment and very few security programs will be able to catch you, much less remove you. It then becomes an issue of CPU architecture support rather than OS version. Windows, OS X, Linux, doesn't matter. Just need to support Intel or AMD's HV architectures, or worse, support both.
To modify BIOS firmware (now almost all build in flash technology) viruses has to access directly the hardware or use the embedded software. Both operations rely on OS (at least for the installation).
Agreed. I think XP is a very good OS, despite all the bugs, and certainly better than 98.
It was a terrific improvement, comparable to that from Win 3.0 and Win95! A very great work!
Yeah, Microsoft certainly needs to be a little quicker in the turnaround on patches. Personally, I'm a little disappointed in Apple for this too. And I'll hand it to Linux. Several of their distro's are very good about this.
Corporate company is less responsive than open community. (Budget, market plans, ecc.)
La vita è una lezione interminabile di umiltà (Anonimo).
Life is a endless lesson of humility (Anonimous).
New Member
#36
marianomarini_vi wrote:To modify BIOS firmware (now almost all build in flash technology) viruses has to access directly the hardware or use the embedded software. Both operations rely on OS (at least for the installation).
Actually, that's not true. A hypervisor can install anything it wants regardless of the OS running on top of it. The trick is getting the code implanted on the host machine, whether through a virus, a computer hack, or a bogus driver. Once I have code implanted, I just have to tell the computer to boot that code first. The next time the system reboots, it runs the code I implanted and can do whatever it wants to the underlying hardware before the OS even boots. Once it makes that implant, it removes itself and boots the standard OS. Once that happens, you have a very small chance of ever detecting it.

For instance, check out this link: BIOS hack. As the article states, this worked for Windows, OpenBSD, and through VMware. This method take a slightly different angle, but still effective and still possible on Linux OS's as well as Windows. You'll probably also want to check the link on that site about persistent rootkits. As the article says, "Getting root on a Unix box or taking full control of a Windows machine is just a matter of having the patience to find a soft spot in the operating system or one of the applications and then moving up the stack from there."

I'll go ahead and let the issue drop now, but I just want people to be aware of this kind of stuff. Like I said originally, agree with it, don't agree with it. But working full-time in vulnerability analysis, I just want to pass on what I've learned.
Community Moderators
#37
eeyore wrote:...
For instance, check out this link: BIOS hack. As the article states, this worked for Windows, OpenBSD, and through VMware. This method take a slightly different angle, but still effective and still possible on Linux OS's as well as Windows. You'll probably also want to check the link on that site about persistent rootkits. As the article says, "Getting root on a Unix box or taking full control of a Windows machine is just a matter of having the patience to find a soft spot in the operating system or one of the applications and then moving up the stack from there."
...
I don't see the quoted passage ("Getting root on a Unix box or taking full control of a Windows machine is just a matter of having the patience to find a soft spot in the operating system or one of the applications and then moving up the stack from there.") in the article I see at the supplied URL.

The article I see at that URL is about getting inside the machine through pre-infected hardware or a fake or compromised driver. Pre-infected hardware (PCI card flash, for example) implies physical access, at which point all OS security mechanisms are out of the picture. Fake and compromised drivers can largely be avoided by getting drivers from reputable sources rather than Googling for drivers to make a new piece of hardware work. I've seen a clerk searching the web for and installing drivers to try to get a ward office PC to recognize a thumb drive that my home machine uses just fine with only the drivers supplied as part of the kernel it's running.
Senior Member
#38
rmrichesjr wrote:I've seen a clerk searching the web for and installing drivers to try to get a ward office PC to recognize a thumb drive that my home machine uses just fine with only the drivers supplied as part of the kernel it's running.
This is a one of mine existential questions! But I think is out of scope of this thread!
La vita è una lezione interminabile di umiltà (Anonimo).
Life is a endless lesson of humility (Anonimous).
New Member
#39
From the direction the thread has taken, it may be too late for me to weigh in, but I have to make a plug for Avast antivirus. I use it on two of my computers and have been virus free for more than five years - and I use my internet connection in airports and hotels rather often, which is where my coworkers complain about getting their infections.

One note about the "which OS is better" discussion: I love Ubuntu (my wife does not, so we're a Windows family ;) ). Linux is a great OS and does everything I need it to do, but it's not immune - it's just not targeted as often. That aside, if you're running a virtual machine to port those Windows programs you just can't live without, my understanding is that you should protect the VM just like you would a native operating system.
- Stephen
New Member
#40
rmrichesjr wrote:I don't see the quoted passage ("Getting root on a Unix box or taking full control of a Windows machine is just a matter of having the patience to find a soft spot in the operating system or one of the applications and then moving up the stack from there.") in the article I see at the supplied URL.
It's in the link provided in the article, persistent rootkits. Here's a direct link: http://searchsecurity.techtarget.com/ne ... 33,00.html
The article I see at that URL is about getting inside the machine through pre-infected hardware or a fake or compromised driver. Pre-infected hardware (PCI card flash, for example) implies physical access, at which point all OS security mechanisms are out of the picture. Fake and compromised drivers can largely be avoided by getting drivers from reputable sources rather than Googling for drivers to make a new piece of hardware work. I've seen a clerk searching the web for and installing drivers to try to get a ward office PC to recognize a thumb drive that my home machine uses just fine with only the drivers supplied as part of the kernel it's running.
Like I said, the article presents only one possible method, and doesn't represent the exact same method I was presenting. It simple showed another way in which viruses can transcend Operating Systems and operate on multiple platforms. Blue pill (http://theinvisiblethings.blogspot.com/ ... -pill.html) is better suited to what I was actually talking about and is a very interesting read if you've never heard of it.
New Member
#41

Microsoft Security Essentials

Microsoft released a new free antivirus solution for home use today.

http://www.microsoft.com/Security_essentials/

Initial reviews indicate this is not bloatware and is a simple strong solution.

Other free home solutions include AVG, AVAST, and AVIRA.
#42

Sugestion

One of the best anti-virus is the Kaspersky 8.0.0.506. :)
Chris Ayres-Smith
Member
#43
I'm trying use the new "Microsoft Security Essentials" since the release of the alpha version last week. It's a good choise for Windows machines.
New Member
#44
i have tried almost every anti virus notron mcafee ca. What i think is every anti virus is a virus in it self. Personally i don't use any and i never even had any virus.
New Member
#45

Common sense

Where i work we use ubuntu we dont have problem with virus, I think Ubuntu its a very friendly and useful linux distro, even you can have itunes on ubuntu. it does make sense to use linux when you understand the difference between an office suit and an operating system, a lot of people doest like ubuntu beacuse the dont see microsoft word (open office its what they see) as long as you have a legal microsoft license you can run microsoft office on ubuntu. so why spent money and time with vius at home if you can have a OS that wont have that problem (sometimes there isnt:) money to buy a mac) No virus with ubuntu!!!
Senior Member
#46
so why spent money and time with virus
For business! This way money move from pocket to pocket, pay tax, eccetera, eccetera, and all live happy!
There's nothing better than create problem to find (and sell) solutions!
I use Linux in every pc I own, even if I'm forced to buy Windows with it, I always install and use Linux. And yes, Ubuntu (11.04) is my present OS.
La vita è una lezione interminabile di umiltà (Anonimo).
Life is a endless lesson of humility (Anonimous).
Community Administrator
#47
Let's please keep in mind this is a thread on anti-virus solutions, not OS choices. That's a different subject.
Have you searched the Help Center? Try doing a Google search and adding "site:churchofjesuschrist.org/help" to the search criteria.

So we can better help you, please edit your Profile to include your general location.
Senior Member
#48
RussellHltn wrote:Let's please keep in mind this is a thread on anti-virus solutions, not OS choices. That's a different subject.
But when an OS is, by it self, an antivirus, maybe some reason to be named exist!
La vita è una lezione interminabile di umiltà (Anonimo).
Life is a endless lesson of humility (Anonimous).
Senior Member
#49
When it comes to antivirus, I'm using AVG Free (current version 9.0) and the free K9 Web Protection, which blocks spyware and malware sites, and they actually have a team that runs those down then adds them to the filter database.

A new one that has surfaced recently in the last few years is Cloud Antivirus. Uses an off-PC database, much the same way K9 operates for content filtering, which means as soon as a virus and/or malware source is found, you're protected from it. http://www.cloudantivirus.com/ only works for XP and above in case there are still any that use Win2000. I think they even display on their site the latest stuff going down so you know how recent they've updated, which is often faster for the home market than most of the home solutions out there, as comprehensive as any business solution antivirus, but is free to the home user.
New Member
#50

good free av

I am partial to Microsoft Security Essentials. Its free, effective, and efficient. Runs on XP, Vista, and Win7. I've been using it for about 2 years. I've used eset, avg, Norton, Symantec, and mccafee. To much noise and random firewall issues turned me off to those.
Senior Member
#51
I've heard much good about the Microsoft offering. I would think that using that, Cloud Antivirus, and K9 content filtering with its spyware/malware sources/effects ratings would trap almost everything. I've also heard that Kaspersky is good for a home user as well.
New Member
#52
I think the biggest problem I find with major antivirus companies is that they lask the ability to protect from the new wave of malware, spyware, rootkits etc. Most of all the infections today are unorthodox to the traditional virus infection methods. Todays infections use tricky Trojan Horse methods to get you infected. Many computers that I have cleaned had fallen victim to bogus emails, compromised websites and free media sites that kids visit etc.

Now on topic.... here are SOME of the ones I personally found to be effective

Protection and removal:
Kapersky Antivirus
Comodo Antivirus (Free and paid versions)
AVG (Free and Paid versions)

Detection and Removal Programs:
Malwarebytes (free and paid versions)
Kapersky's removal tools (free and paid)
Hijaththis (Free HOWEVER only for experienced users)
ComboFix (Only to be used in conjuction with a qualifed computer tech)


FYI the latest outbreak of malware seems to be using the tdss rootkit clas type of infections. If you find that your browser searches are being redirected and you are getting any fake windows restore and bogus windows antivirus programs, then you may have a rootkit infection (one of the hardest to remove and fix) Using tools from Kapersky (tdss killer) and malwarebytes will usually clean this type of infection however you must be carefull since it deals with system files and registry and could easily brick your windows OS (could require you to reload your os)
New Member
#53

Anti Virus safety

I recently attended a Symantec anti-virus seminar and yes they say it takes on average 45 days from the day they identify a new virus to when they release a fix/update. the viruses are becoming more complex or more completely simple, they are getting very hard to detect.

Your best defense is:
- Safe Browsing (know where you are going, Look at the address before you click the link. The address to a link is usually shown at the bottom of your browser window when you point at a link, if it does not show up there is usually an option to turn it on.)
- Limit Popups (use a popup blocker)
- Antivirus (keep it on and updated)
- Malware remover (keep it updated and do a FULL scan about every 2 weeks)
- Email Safety (if you don't know the person the email is from or it looks suspicious do not open it. Email is not secure!!! Don't send Financial info, ie credit card, bank account numbers, in an email. Banks do not use Email for financial info you should not either.)


I would like to add to crees list of good software:
Eset - NOD32 Antivirus (about the same price as others, does not take up alot of system resorces and I found in 2 cases it finds stuff the others did not find.
Malwarebytes (worth mentioning again - Free and Paid version)
Spybot Search and Destroy (a good Malware and spyware remover - Free)
Community Moderators
#54
jamielbradley wrote:Your best defense is:
- Safe Browsing (know where you are going, Look at the address before you click the link. The address to a link is usually shown at the bottom of your browser window when you point at a link, if it does not show up there is usually an option to turn it on.)
- Limit Popups (use a popup blocker)
- Antivirus (keep it on and updated)
- Malware remover (keep it updated and do a FULL scan about every 2 weeks)
- Email Safety (if you don't know the person the email is from or it looks suspicious do not open it. Email is not secure!!! Don't send Financial info, ie credit card, bank account numbers, in an email. Banks do not use Email for financial info you should not either.)
I'm surprised they left off one of the most important defenses and that's to always keep your OS and apps fully patched and up to date. There's a lot of older malware out there still running strong that exploits long since patched vulnerabilities, only because people (and businesses) haven't applied the free patches.
So we can better help you, please edit your Profile to include your general location.
Community Administrator
#55
Keeping the apps up to date isn't easy. Adobe seems to require as much patching as Windows. Java and Apple Quicktime has their problems as well. The internal updaters is not always the best. I use the Secunia on-line scanner. Home users can use the Personal Software Inspector.
Have you searched the Help Center? Try doing a Google search and adding "site:churchofjesuschrist.org/help" to the search criteria.

So we can better help you, please edit your Profile to include your general location.
New Member
#56
i used mac ever since and its been safe for any virus out there only thing is there not much apps available for mac but for security i put my money on the best OS out there

but since i work as a IT we put NOD32 as the antivirus software and as far as we tested NOD32 is on the top of list on every antivirus we tested not to mention its important that its always updated
New Member
#57
Having worked in the technology industry for over 20 years I have seen the extreme on both ends - no protection and everything works fine - to lots of protection and still have pretty major issues. The best solutions I have seen so far for the least cost include:

Microsoft Security Essentials - yes this is only a windows product, but in context to windows - this one is available via windows update, which sometimes if malwrare or a virus gets on you can't get to the internet as it hijacks the browser. Hackers are getting smarter and trying to block windows update, but this is a good one to know. The Microsoft Security Essentials is free and it is the same agent / operations as the Enterprise solution (named Foreront Endpoint Protection) so you are getting commercial grade AV/AM for free - the difference is just how the solution is managed (i.e. you manage it yorself on the free version). The other thing I like about this solution is the premise of what Microsoft looks for in regards to malicious behavior is just that behavior analysis, not just the standard (problem, create pattern to fix problem, push pattern , fix problem) approach. Who better to know what kind of behaviors are malicious than the makers of the OS. To me this is a much more sustainable type of system as it lends to the potential of being able to detect and block malicous behavior without an updated pattern needing to be created (notice I said potential :)

Smart browsing - not a solution but talked about in another thread. Don't go to questionable sites. If you are on windows - go get IE9, the improvements on security / in private browsing to secure your info etc.. are well worth it.

Keep OS / apps / patters up to date - also mentioned by Mike I think. If on windows ensure you are on the latest service pack level and all patches are applied. Set your windows update service to download and install patches automatically so you don't forget. Personally I run windows 7 ultimate (you really only need Home premium) and I reboot my system 1 time every 2 weeks - otherwise I leave it on and utilize power management etc.. that way all my maintenance happens overnight (patching, defragging etc...) and I have yet to have ANY issue with viruses / malware etc.. The biggest pains to me are iTunes and Adobe software - I have to update these applications literally 1 to 2 times a week, this puts microsoft patching to shame IMO.

On a side note - mac systems are ok, it is more of a preference. I would not say they are more secure as they were recently rated #1 as the most vulnerable OS followed by Oracle then Microsoft. I was surprised at this but it makes sense at a higher level with hundreds of millions of copies of windows and the sheer volume of windows in all verticles of business - it is the most targeted OS. When Apple gets there they will get attacked just as much. Just my thoughts.
New Member
#58

So......

What antivirus software do you guys used? I have been using Kaspersky and have been pretty happy with it so far.......
New Member
#59
Thanks for the information. I have been using Kaspersky and so far, very happy with it....
crees wrote:I think the biggest problem I find with major antivirus companies is that they lask the ability to protect from the new wave of malware, spyware, rootkits etc. Most of all the infections today are unorthodox to the traditional virus infection methods. Todays infections use tricky Trojan Horse methods to get you infected. Many computers that I have cleaned had fallen victim to bogus emails, compromised websites and free media sites that kids visit etc.

Now on topic.... here are SOME of the ones I personally found to be effective

Protection and removal:
Kapersky Antivirus
Comodo Antivirus (Free and paid versions)
AVG (Free and Paid versions)

Detection and Removal Programs:
Malwarebytes (free and paid versions)
Kapersky's removal tools (free and paid)
Hijaththis (Free HOWEVER only for experienced users)
ComboFix (Only to be used in conjuction with a qualifed computer tech)


FYI the latest outbreak of malware seems to be using the tdss rootkit clas type of infections. If you find that your browser searches are being redirected and you are getting any fake windows restore and bogus windows antivirus programs, then you may have a rootkit infection (one of the hardest to remove and fix) Using tools from Kapersky (tdss killer) and malwarebytes will usually clean this type of infection however you must be carefull since it deals with system files and registry and could easily brick your windows OS (could require you to reload your os)
New Member
#60
This thread started in 2007 and is still running ... and it will keep running forever if we continue to try to solve this problem using signature based anti-malware solutions (all of the solutions listed fall into that category). In reality, the number of viruses created every day has effectively overwhelmed the capabilities of all antivirus products. You should still use antivirus. However, if you really want to prevent malware, you need to change the solution to a whitelisting application instead of a "blacklist" approach.

If you are having problems with malware, look into one of the whitelisting applications or some application that will lock the configuration of your computer. A good write up on application whitelisting is at http://www.dsd.gov.au/publications/Appl ... isting.pdf. There aren't a lot of packages targeted to home users, but if you want peace of mind, try out lumension or bit9 or McAfee App Control or Coretrace.

+1 for the recommendation of Secunia PSI. If you haven't installed it on your windows computers, you should. It's a fire-and-forget patching system available for free to home users. Just enable automatic patching and your system will be much more protected.