E-mail feature in Beta Directory

Moderator Note: This post and those following were moved from another thread. It was far enough off the original thread topic to warrant a new thread.

kisaac wrote:I love the new emailing feature tied to the new beta directory accessed from beta LDS.ORG!

I can't see any emailing feature. Can you elaborate?

mtwerner wrote:I can't see any emailing feature. Can you elaborate?

Emailing feature is under TOOLs: Leader and Clerk Resources, in the new beta LDS.Org, but you must be called as a Ward Clerk or Bishop or Stake President (we think) at least for now.

It allows me to email to the ward based on callings, such as "send to all Ward Council attendees," etc, and then it gives a list of those who don't have emails in the system and tells me to contact them directly. Cool.

That sounds nice. I'm a stake clerk, but I don't see anything like that. I did find an envelope icon, but I clicked on it and it says "Messaging is currently unavailable. Please try again later." I suspect that's not the feature you're talking about.

mtwerner wrote:That sounds nice. I'm a stake clerk, but I don't see anything like that. I did find an envelope icon, but I clicked on it and it says "Messaging is currently unavailable. Please try again later." I suspect that's not the feature you're talking about.

It IS the envelope icon that brings up the emailing dialog and features I'm talking about, and it apparently is in use for me as a ward clerk...Or, iot has been as I used it last Friday. Try it again later as I've notice the availability of all the items in beta lds.org are a little unreliable- but it is in beta testing.

kisaac wrote:Emailing feature is under TOOLs: Leader and Clerk Resources, in the new beta LDS.Org, but you must be called as a Ward Clerk or Bishop or Stake President (we think) at least for now.

It allows me to email to the ward based on callings, such as "send to all Ward Council attendees," etc, and then it gives a list of those who don't have emails in the system and tells me to contact them directly. Cool.

I just found this post and so tried to find the feature but the tools are listed as only "Tools for General Membership," and do not have the Leader and Clerk Resources tools. I am the membership clerk and also the web administrator but evidently neither of these positions qualify me for access. I hope this changes as I can see using this in both my callings.

the feature is awesome - IF you have good up-to-date email addresses for everyone.

zaneclark wrote:I just found this post and so tried to find the feature but the tools are listed as only "Tools for General Membership," and do not have the Leader and Clerk Resources tools. I am the membership clerk and also the web administrator but evidently neither of these positions qualify me for access. I hope this changes as I can see using this in both my callings.

The beta version can only currently be accessed by Bishops and Ward Clerks (or Stake Presidents and Stake Clerks). Counsellors and Assistants are not yet able to access. It is still only a trial, and I am sure this will be expanded at a later date.

I'd just like to note that the Directory application, and the Leader/Clerk app are not the same thing. They are completely separate apps that live under the LDS.Org family.

That being said, the Directory application allows members to keep their own contact information up to date, and includes mailto: links for every member with an email address in the directory.

Additionally, our next release (coming soon) includes mailto: links in the Ward and Stake Leadership directories that will allow you to email an entire leadership group (e.g. click the link on the Elder's Quorum page to email the entire EQ Presidency).

These messaging tools (along with those in the Leader app) will continue to evolve over the next several months. Messaging is a core feature set driving these apps and we are finally getting to the point were we can start including some cool functionality. Stay tuned...

jdcr256 wrote:Additionally, our next release (coming soon) includes mailto: links in the Ward and Stake Leadership directories that will allow you to email an entire leadership group (e.g. click the link on the Elder's Quorum page to email the entire EQ Presidency).

Looks like "soon" is today. Nice work! I noticed that the ward name is also now part of the displayed record, which answers someone else's question about searching for a member and finding what ward they are in in the stake.

oregonmatt wrote:Looks like "soon" is today. Nice work! I noticed that the ward name is also now part of the displayed record, which answers someone else's question about searching for a member and finding what ward they are in in the stake.

Glad you like it. If anyone finds a bug in this new release, please let me know.

jdcr256 wrote:Glad you like it. If anyone finds a bug in this new release, please let me know.

Not a bug but maybe a request.... The ward missionaries don't have their own group but are included in the Other Callings along with music, library,etc. It would be nice to have a separate group for for email purposes.... I know they have a their own category on the current LUWS.

zaneclark wrote:Not a bug but maybe a request.... The ward missionaries don't have their own group but are included in the Other Callings along with music, library,etc. It would be nice to have a separate group for for email purposes.... I know they have a their own category on the current LUWS.

The new directory app is pulling that information from CDOL, which is getting its callings from MLS. So CDOL and MLS would be the place for that if you were to do it by group.

One other option might be to allow a group email to be filtered by position types so that you could send to just a part of a group. For example within the primary you might want to send to just the presidency or to all the teachers, but not all the other callings.

ryan jones wrote:One other option might be to allow a group email to be filtered by position types so that you could send to just a part of a group.

Yes, one problem we have is that if you want to use the link to send off a quick message, it dumps the emails for the entire group. If you only mean to send the message to the presidency of the group, you have to manually delete the email addresses you don't want.

We've been discussing this issue already and have some thoughts about ways of filtering the group (e.g. a separate link for just the presidency, etc.). There are a lot of cool things we can do around messaging, and I think we're just getting started.

ryan jones wrote:One other option might be to allow a group email to be filtered by position types so that you could send to just a part of a group. For example within the primary you might want to send to just the presidency or to all the teachers, but not all the other callings.

Another example of when you might want part of a group is the bishopric. When beta directory sends an email to the bishopric, it sends it to the whole bishopric: including clerks, assistant clerks, secretaries, etc.

The duties of all the clerks and secretaries are so different, I'm thinking that about the only time I'd ever need to email the whole bishopric is to notify them of an expanded bishopric meeting.

Usually, however, the bishop and his counselors are what we think of as "bishopric," are often one in purpose on many items. If I have a question about the ward, its probably only those three that need my email.

A change from the version previous to this one that I personally think shouldn't have happened...

The leadership positions for stake and other wards turned back to showing the positions only if they've signed into the directory (or have an LDS account?)

It would make it hard to email stake leaders or to other ward groups in the mailing list (ie, my wife is a stake primary secretary and can't see primary leaders in other wards, which i think she should be able to be)

I know there's privacy concerns and all, but i think this is taking things a bit too private, as it makes it nearly useless, and if programs don't work as people need them to it just becomes un-used. there will NEVER be 100% adoption of this program even by leaders. It needs to work for the people who will use it, without being hindered by those who don't.

markgnorthcott wrote:A change from the version previous to this one that I personally think shouldn't have happened...

The leadership positions for stake and other wards turned back to showing the positions only if they've signed into the directory (or have an LDS account?)

It would make it hard to email stake leaders or to other ward groups in the mailing list (ie, my wife is a stake primary secretary and can't see primary leaders in other wards, which i think she should be able to be)

I know there's privacy concerns and all, but i think this is taking things a bit too private, as it makes it nearly useless, and if programs don't work as people need them to it just becomes un-used. there will NEVER be 100% adoption of this program even by leaders. It needs to work for the people who will use it, without being hindered by those who don't.

I don't see the same thing you claim you are seeing. No one can see any members or leaders unless they are signed into the beta.lds.org site using their LDS Account. But everyone who is signed in can see all the members and all the leaders in all the wards in their stake. The email feature also works just as you would expect in this regard; if you are in Ward A, you can send mail to the Primary presidency of Ward A or Ward B or Ward C.

This is how it has worked for some time in the beta directory; there is no change that I can see. And I verified that this is how it works for me (an assistant stake clerk) and for my wife (no leadership calling at all).

You must have signed everyone up in your stake then because I certainly do not see the same result you've posted. The previous version showed all the members of the high council for example, this one only shows those who have signed in with an LDS account, (I know so because I'm sure only one of them has signed into the directory, the other two are family history users)

everything in MY ward shows up with full access, but elsewhere throughout the stake it's like this.

markgnorthcott wrote: You must have signed everyone up in your stake then because I certainly do not see the same result you've posted. The previous version showed all the members of the high council for example, this one only shows those who have signed in with an LDS account, (I know so because I'm sure only one of them has signed into the directory, the other two are family history users)

everything in MY ward shows up with full access, but elsewhere throughout the stake it's like this.

This is not how the directory works in the US. I have many people in my stake that I'm sure have not signed onto LDS Account who show up in the leadership directory.

There are, however, different privacy requirements in different countries. There is a Jira entry for the directory that indicates that EU countries require an explicit opt-in in order to display information to the general stake membership. It looks like that change was finally released in the most recent beta update.

It looks like the church's hands are tied by the EU privacy requirements. It's obviously not how the church would like the site to work since the directory uses a more liberal opt-out policy elsewhere.

markgnorthcott wrote:You must have signed everyone up in your stake then because I certainly do not see the same result you've posted. The previous version showed all the members of the high council for example, this one only shows those who have signed in with an LDS account, (I know so because I'm sure only one of them has signed into the directory, the other two are family history users)

everything in MY ward shows up with full access, but elsewhere throughout the stake it's like this.

I can't explain the difference. But I guarantee that I can see all sorts of people in my stake who have not signed up with an LDS Account. I work closely with the High Council and I know that there are some of them who have never gotten an LDS Account. Yet all 12 show up.

Besides, the way this whole information flow works has nothing to do with the leadership having an LDS Account. Callings are entered in MLS, then transmitted from there to CDOL. The directory then uses CDOL to look up the people in leadership positions.

I don't know if you have access to CDOL, or can work with someone who does, but it would be interesting to know what the High Council (for example) looks like in your stake on CDOL.

UPDATE: It looks like eblood66 supplied the real answer to the issue:

eblood66 wrote:It looks like the church's hands are tied by the EU privacy requirements. It's obviously not how the church would like the site to work since the directory uses a more liberal opt-out policy elsewhere.

I accept that as an answer... Looks like i'm going to have to persuade other clerks to get in on this and opt-in the members of other wards. I'm only an assistant ward clerk, but the duties of my calling are one and the same as the ward clerk in our unit.

Due to the specific calling name I cannot access CDOL as it only allows clerks and bishops, not assistant clerks.. even if we have the same duties.

Our stake currently really needs this directory to work without the privacy infringement. Every year we spend hundreds of pounds on printing out the ward directory, and this would save a load of time and money.

I wonder if there's a way that the stake presidency or stake clerks (or a properly called administrator) can click a checkbox then to make all the members of the stake visible. I know privacy concerns would probably not allow this but the program is completely useless in the current opt-in situation. I mean, if we can print out a full stake directory, why can't we do this?

I've really appreciated the help you have given me and apologize if i've been a pain.

markgnorthcott wrote: I wonder if there's a way that the stake presidency or stake clerks (or a properly called administrator) can click a checkbox then to make all the members of the stake visible. I know privacy concerns would probably not allow this but the program is completely useless in the current opt-in situation. I mean, if we can print out a full stake directory, why can't we do this?

I haven't looked at the source code to see for certain, but I believe that certain leadership callings can still see all members regardless of opt-in/opt-out status. That's true in the US and in the Jira entry on EU privacy it looks like the same is probably true in the EU.

Those leadership callings would probably be the stake presidency, stake clerk and maybe assistant stake clerks. It might also include ward bishoprics and the ward clerk but more likely they can only see those in their own ward who have opted out.

Well my concern is for the general membership really. those who choose to adopt the program early have to be patient with those who adopt the program late on the opt-in. Ultimately it would lead to the program not being used at all. it's like playing tetris with all the standard blocks but most of them only have one square for the whole shape, the game would sill work, but ultimately it's just frustrating.

there needs to be a situation where the stake clerk can opt-in everyone in the stake (in EU countries) even if the same would be pointless in non-EU countries. This solution will save stakes a lot of money in keeping from having to print out stake directories and calendars.

I will fight for this! It's a perfectly fine work-around I think.

urg... why do we have such pointless rules in the EU... I might just move back home to canada so I don't have to put up with it!

Does anyone actually have a copy of the EU Privacy Laws in question? the Jira entry doesn't specifically link to the Privacy law in question here.

If this doesn't work, then maybe those in the EU will have to sign an agreement when baptised and also for the general membership to use (to opt-in or out)

urg... I don't like it when i get stuck on issues that I feel need to be solved and i wish i knew how to code so I could help out on the coding level too.

nope stuck being a frustrated beta tester forever...
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and now to look at it from the other side of the fence: those who want the privacy...

for example: a head of household or an adult member of a household can sign in, and it seems to make the whole household available then. what if the husband signed in and the wife didn't want to? corny, but i'm sure there are some situations where that would pose a problem.

markgnorthcott wrote:there needs to be a situation where the stake clerk can opt-in everyone in the stake (in EU countries)

I'm going to go out on a limb and make an assumption that the point of the relevant portion of the EU privacy directives is that information about an individual should not be disclosed without that individual's consent. (At least that's what I gather from some limited reading.) If you can get through the 72 "whereas" clauses, this page is probably a good place to start. Article 8 deals with some special circumstances that apply to the Church and includes the phrase "data are not disclosed to a third party without the consent of the data subjects."

There has likely been a lot of research and effort expended by the Church to determine what is allowed, what isn't, and what is required. The legal requirements will be reflected in the way that the software works. The stake clerk doesn't have the legal right to make an opt-in decision for everyone in the stake, so the system isn't going to allow that. Allowing it could result in unpleasant repercussions for the Church and possibly for the individual involved.

Although it might create inconvenience or additional expense for the stake, we believe in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law, even when we don't like it or it is inconvenient.

I am not a lawyer and don't play one on TV.

The feature to email presidencies and councils under the Leader and Clerk app is also available to Ward Executive Secretaries.

In my last ward, we had a "new church technologies orientation" activity where the ward clerk and I helped everyone who came get logged in, find which calendars they needed for their situation, and instructed them on the use of the directory(including how to opt-out and what that meant)... this was a little while ago and we've had to keep updating people on specifics since then with new releases, but it's gotten everyone to realize that the new site is there and a good amount of people used it before I moved... not everyone will understand right away, and the biggest concern I had was always people not realizing that this information is not public to the world, only to the stake membership... if they brought in their own computers I set up their outlook or other calendaring program to sync the events...

maybe having something like this would help get you started on getting people to show up, then you just work with those that didn't show up... It's not a perfect solution, but it helped my ward...