Priesthood ordinations not recorded. What now?

One of our members insists he received both the Aaronic Priesthood and Melchizedek Priesthood in the Summer of 2006 but it doesn't show in his membership records. My question is simple: How do I proceed?

oh8clerk wrote:One of our members insists he received both the Aaronic Priesthood and Melchizedek Priesthood in the Summer of 2006 but it doesn't show in his membership records. My question is simple: How do I proceed?

I'd start by searching the records of the ward he was part of in 2006.
If nothing shows up and a search of CHQ records shows nothing, then find out who was in attendance at the ordinations. From the testimony of 2 or more others you can usually get a date and proceed in creating the record.

I had this happen to me many years ago when I was a membership clerk years before we had either MIS or MLS systems. A member of the ward was serving as a member of the Seventy's quorum in the stake but the ordination never showed up on his record. After we contacted a couple of people who were there when he was ordained we updated his record with an estimated date and issued a certificate.

First, I think I'd call CHQ and make sure there isn't a duplicate record some where with the information.

Next, I think you'll find instructions in the CHI. Hopefully someone can tell you the page number. But Techgy gave the general idea.

I find it a bit odd that he'd receive both in the same summer, but I could be wrong about that.

RussellHltn wrote:... I find it a bit odd that he'd receive both in the same summer, but I could be wrong about that.

For adult male new converts, this is often the case. They should be ordained a Priest immediately, and there's no official waiting period for ordination to Elder (in my previous stake - the goal was within 3 months).

We normal waited about one year for a new convert. That way they received the Melchizedek priesthood around the same time they were planning to go to the temple. This allowed time for the member to develop their testimony and live their covenants. This is not the rule, but what I have seen in most wards. That's the wonderful thing about revelation, the spirit will guide the decision for each leader working with new members.

Greggo wrote:. . . and there's no official waiting period for ordination to Elder (in my previous stake - the goal was within 3 months).

sgtbrown26 wrote:We normal waited about one year for a new convert. That way they received the Melchizedek priesthood around the same time they were planning to go to the temple. This allowed time for the member to develop their testimony and live their covenants. This is not the rule, but what I have seen in most wards. That's the wonderful thing about revelation, the spirit will guide the decision for each leader working with new members.

And just to fill in the range, we usually run about 6-8 months. Here, it is felt that they need an opportunity to pay tithing and demonstrate the ability to keep other commandments, but that if they are worthy they should be ordained and be elders as they prepare to go to the temple, hopefully at the one-year point.

As has been mentioned, there is no time limit for elder ordination. But, there is a one year minimum time from confirmation for live ordinances.

But in the original case, both baptism and elder ordination could have taken place during the same summer, one probably early in the summer, and one later on.

If no witnesses can be tracked down, and no record exists in church headquarters, then do we simply redo the ordinations?

Double-check the CHI, but I think that's what it comes down to.

oh8clerk wrote:If no witnesses can be tracked down, and no record exists in church headquarters, then do we simply redo the ordinations?

Yes, but be sure to read the Handbook first, especially if other ordinances (i.e., temple) have been performed based on the Melchizedek Priesthood ordination.

The bishop may wish to counsel with his stake president first to make sure all other avenues of information have been exhausted.

A member went through the temple, but the MP ordination was not recorded beforehand. Once I looked further into it, I found out that he was sustained in stake conference, but the ordination never occurred. Now he received MP, but he has already been through the temple a month before.

What now is that ok to stay with a MP date after his endowment date?

pze wrote:A member went through the temple, but the MP ordination was not recorded beforehand. Once I looked further into it, I found out that he was sustained in stake conference, but the ordination never occurred. Now he received MP, but he has already been through the temple a month before.

What now is that ok to stay with a MP date after his endowment date?

Generally, ordinances received out of sequence are not valid. There are exceptions. Church Handbook of Instructions, page 31, explains this and also what to do when a record has not been updated for an ordinance that has been performed, as was asked earlier in this thread.

pze wrote:Once I looked further into it, I found out that he was sustained in stake conference, but the ordination never occurred.

Were you able to confirm that the ordination definitely didn't take place, as opposed to having happened but not being recorded?

Worth making 100% sure if you're not already: it could be easier to add an unrecorded ordination to a member's record than to have to ratify an endowment which took place before the member received the Melchizedek Priesthood. The first of these is dealt with locally, whereas the latter process goes all the way to the First Presidency.

pze wrote:What now is that ok to stay with a MP date after his endowment date?

Sounds like there needs to be a call to CHQ for clarification of how to proceed.

oh8clerk wrote:If no witnesses can be tracked down, and no record exists in church headquarters, then do we simply redo the ordinations?

According to the CHI, Page 31, that's basically the only options. Witnesses, evidence or do it again.
Not much clarification needed, if you call CHQ, they'll refer you the the CHI, don't ask how I know.

To answer my own question.

If the MP ordination was after the endowment date, then First Presidency approval is necessary to stay as it is. Not a fun process...for the stake presidency that is.

Trust me, the First Presidency has heard worse...

pze wrote:To answer my own question.

If the MP ordination was after the endowment date, then First Presidency approval is necessary to stay as it is. Not a fun process...for the stake presidency that is.

Yes, in this instance the First Presidency must ratify the ordinance(s).

So the stake president has to write a letter. It is not complicated. The bishop, with his clerk(s) gathers the information. The stake president writes the letter. The First Presidency returns their response.

This will not be the first time this type of request has been made.

This is in reply to the first question of the thread, Priesthood ordinations not recorded. What now? (not the second question, of possible "out of sequence" ordinations and needed "ratification")

Your bishopric should first study CHI Book 1, chapter 5, page 31, "Ordinances for which there is no valid record" as stated earlier, and then:

techgy wrote:I'd start by searching the records of the ward he was part of in 2006.
If nothing shows up and a search of CHQ records shows nothing, then find out who was in attendance at the ordinations. From the testimony of 2 or more others you can usually get a date and proceed in creating the record.

Part of your solution may be to look up his previous leaders to find witnesses...

If you attempt this, find the ward he attended during the time in question, (by his membership record?) then use CDOL (if you are ward clerk or bishop) to lookup this ward, and it will give both the present bishop's name and contact info, and under the "historical" tab, previous bishops and the dates they served. Then make the call to the current bishop, explain and ask if he knows, then ask about the previous bishop that served then, and see if he is still around.

2006 isn't that far away, and people in leadership at the time should remember...bishops, clerks, EQ presidents, HP group leaders, etc.

This thread really shows the importance of clerks magnifying their callings! Things can get really messed up...

kisaac wrote: Part of your solution may be to look up his previous leaders to find witnesses...

Your suggestion is excellent, but keep in mind that historical information only shows up for the stake in which you are currently living.

If you are looking up a former leader in another stake, go ahead and use CDOL, but consider the added step that you will need to contact the current bishop and ask who was serving at the time in question.

I am sure they will still be willing to assist, but it does add another step to the process.

For those of you who don't read paper any more (I abhor paper and I avoid it when I can), the section that is being referred to in the Church Handbook of Instruction is:

Book 1, Section 16.1.10.

Note that if a record was recorded prior to 1984 and you need to get a Request for Ordinance form, you need to request it from the Online Store and you will get sent a packet of about 25. You will use one and can put the rest in your filing cabinet to be destroyed in another 20 years when they haven't been used.