Disappointed that IOS 12 is needed

So I got a notification this morning that the app was available, so jumped on to download it. I went to install it on the kids phones, to discover it needed IOS 12. My kids get the old phones after my wife and I upgrade. There’s an iPhone 5 and 2 iPhone 4s’s, and none of them can use the app. Surely we aren’t the only household that doesn’t regularly buy new iPhones for our kids, but just gives them the older phones. Looking at the phones the other kids in the ward bring to classes, they are mostly all in the same boat - mostly using old iPhone 4/5 models.

The app is aimed at Children and Youth, but unless they are lucky enough to have a latest model phone they can’t use it. I’m certainly not going to go out and buy $1000 new phones for all the kids. The decision to target only the most recent iPhones is a major design failure.

grahamf72 wrote:The decision to target only the most recent iPhones is a major design failure.

If I'm reading the charts right, the newest unsupported device was discontinued almost 5 and a half years ago. That's quite a bit of time for a mobile device.

There are a number of technical issues that come up. This app needs to communicate securely with church servers, so the OS has to be able to support API and protocols that do what they want it to do and are still considered secure.

Even if possible, trying to support an older version adds that much more to coding, development and testing. As it was, the app was about a month late. How much time should be spent to support an OS that is likely to be a non-issue in 6-12 months as opposed to "future proofing" it by using modern coding? That time is not free.

The Gospel Living app is not a requirement for the Children and Youth program. However, not all leaders understand that – so there might be some education required to make sure that announcements or other things get out to all of the youth, including those who don't have the Gospel Living app.

I am aware that it is not a requirement, and also aware that the unsupported devices are quite old. But after discussing it in yesterday’s youth classes, our ward is in the situation where 4 of the 10 active Young Women, and 1 of the 8 active Young Men are able to use it, yet all have devices.

With such a low number able to use it, it loses much of its usefulness. We had visions of circles being a very handy tool for leaders to stay in touch with the youth, that we could use a specific-for-purpose church app instead of 3rd party solutions, but not to be. We will pretty much have to continue using things like Facebook where any inspirational messages are likely to get lost amongst the junk.

In a way, it defeats the whole purpose of the app which is primarily aimed at children and youth. May as well shift the target audience to EQ, RS, and leadership, since they are the ones able to use it.

I'd send feedback via the app. There is no guarantee that the developers will see it here.

If Apple products are too expensive, then perhaps cheaper Android cell phones or tablets would help?

The older the phone, the more likely that a trickle-down upgrade will happen before long.

If they want to stick with Apple, used older iPhones can be pretty cheap.

drepouille wrote:If Apple products are too expensive, then perhaps cheaper Android cell phones or tablets would help?

What version of Andriod is required? My daughter's phone says it's not compatible in the store and I'm wondering how much of an upgrade is going to be needed for her to use the app.

Crisisman wrote:What version of Andriod is required? My daughter's phone says it's not compatible in the store and I'm wondering how much of an upgrade is going to be needed for her to use the app.

According to the Play Store, "Requires Android 5.0 and up". That should cover anything sold as new today.

That's also the same requirement for Member Tools as well as getting the current version of Gospel Library.

The two low-end phones ($150) I looked at are both running Android 9.

Yup. I will be replacing my Android 7 LG phone tomorrow with an Android 9 LG phone for $129.

russellhltn wrote:The two low-end phones ($150) I looked at are both running Android 9.

I was looking at T-Mobile when I did that. Turns out Verizon is even cheaper. So, I'd check your carrier's web page to see what's available. They might have some refurbished deals as well. (iPhone 6a at $155)

And if you are looking at getting a new line for the phone, many mid-range to low end phones are available with a monthly rebate that covers the phone cost. In fact, my wife recently upgraded her old flip-phone (yes, she was the old school hold-out in the family, LOL) to a brand-new Samsung A7 (Android 9 OS) for free without getting a new line. It is not a barn-burner by any stretch of the imagination but works well and does everything she needs and wants to do. The sales come and go so keep an eye out and you can find a reasonable Deal if you don't insist on the latest and greatest $1000 phone.

In our case, we went in to our Verizon store and just asked what Deals were available to upgrade her phone. I was fully expecting to have to pay a little so was very pleased when we walked out with only having to pay for the protective case and screen protector (I am a fan of those).

Kind of missing the point. The parents get the phones free with a phone plan. I have never bought a phone, it is always part of the phone plan (which I have to have anyway). Upgrade when the contract runs out (typically after 2-3 years), and give the old phone to the kids to use on wifi (very few are actually connected to a mobile phone plan).

These phones the kids have cost the parents nothing. Makes no difference whether it’s iOS or Android, (it seems iOS actually has a longer support path than most android devices anyway). I look at the families in my ward, and knowing the jobs they have, there is only a handful that would be in a position to buy their kid’s even a second-hand newish phone to run the app. Especially when you multiply by 3-5 kids. And guess what - that handful of families are the ones whose kids do have newer devices to run the app.

Maybe in your isolated wealthy part of the world it’s normal for kids to have brand new phones, and “just go and buy one” is a normal thing to do, but not everywhere.

An app targeted to kids, that only works with the newest phones, is a design failure. Maybe ok for wealthy areas, but a failure in areas with lower demographics. It can even foster an “us and them” attitude which is very much a negative. Sure it isn’t a requirement to have the app, but those who don’t are behind the 8-ball.

The decision makers don't visit here. What we've been offering is options that are under your control.

Or, you can choose to wait. Eventually, it will be solved - perhaps due to the passage of time and iOS 11 fading in the rear-view mirror.

Each time in the past when I've had a chance to talk to a product manager, they've had a good answer as to why they did something a certain way. It may be a technical issue or a resource issue. I highly doubt if it was arbitrary.

If you want to make your voice heard, I'd suggest either using the feedback link or asking your stake president to take the matter up with his presiding authority.

grahamf72 wrote:Kind of missing the point. The parents get the phones free with a phone plan. I have never bought a phone, it is always part of the phone plan (which I have to have anyway). Upgrade when the contract runs out (typically after 2-3 years), and give the old phone to the kids to use on wifi (very few are actually connected to a mobile phone plan).

These phones the kids have cost the parents nothing. Makes no difference whether it’s iOS or Android, (it seems iOS actually has a longer support path than most android devices anyway). I look at the families in my ward, and knowing the jobs they have, there is only a handful that would be in a position to buy their kid’s even a second-hand newish phone to run the app. Especially when you multiply by 3-5 kids. And guess what - that handful of families are the ones whose kids do have newer devices to run the app.

Maybe in your isolated wealthy part of the world it’s normal for kids to have brand new phones, and “just go and buy one” is a normal thing to do, but not everywhere.

An app targeted to kids, that only works with the newest phones, is a design failure. Maybe ok for wealthy areas, but a failure in areas with lower demographics. It can even foster an “us and them” attitude which is very much a negative. Sure it isn’t a requirement to have the app, but those who don’t are behind the 8-ball.

You don't need the "newest" phones to use the app. You just need a device that was introduced within the last six years. Apple does a pretty great job of older devices supporting newer operating systems, but it's not reasonable to expect older hardware to always support the newest operating systems. Apple actually dropped support for 32 bit apps back in 2017 and since then all apps are required to be 64 bit. So that means devices older than the 5s can't run any newly released app, anyway. For reference, here are the devices that can run iOS 12 or newer:

iPhone 11 Pro
iPhone 11 Pro Max
iPhone 11
iPhone XS
iPhone XS Max
iPhone XR
iPhone X
iPhone 8
iPhone 8 Plus
iPhone 7
iPhone 7 Plus
iPhone 6s
iPhone 6s Plus
iPhone 6
iPhone 6 Plus
iPhone SE
iPhone 5s

You can find an iPhone 5s for next to nothing these days considering it was introduced way back in 2013.

drewsky5 wrote:You can find an iPhone 5s for next to nothing these days considering it was introduced way back in 2013.

Though if you get a new device, I wouldn't recommend going for an iPhone 5s as it's likely the next device to no longer be supported (whenever that ends up happening).

sbradshaw wrote:

drewsky5 wrote:You can find an iPhone 5s for next to nothing these days considering it was introduced way back in 2013.

Though if you get a new device, I wouldn't recommend going for an iPhone 5s as it's likely the next device to no longer be supported (whenever that ends up happening).

Oh, I definitely agree with this. Anything older than an iPhone 7 is likely due to be dropped from iOS 14 support.

Here is a pertinent quotation from an article that was published yesterday:
"You don't want the risk associated with 32-bit iOS," said Turner, adding that you should use only iPhones that can run iOS 13.
https://www.tomsguide.com/news/mobile-a ... hack-rsa20