"Other" Accounts

Is it appropriate to transfer excess funds from the "OTHER- Scout Camp" account to the budget? Since scouting is going away, what is appropriate to do with these funds to zero out this account? Thanks.

morrisrich wrote:Is it appropriate to transfer excess funds from the "OTHER- Scout Camp" account to the budget? Since scouting is going away, what is appropriate to do with these funds to zero out this account? Thanks.

See Handbook 1: 14.7.2.2, 6th paragraph.

This is an interesting question and we may have to wait and see what guidance comes down for that. Some wards have carry-over funds from one scout camp that they use for the next scout camp. But as you say, that's going away. It's possible that it might be acceptable to roll that into whatever activity replaces that. But I'd seek approval from the stake audit committee first.

If refunding is not practical, the only clear option left is to send it to church headquarters.

Something you might do is look over the expenses of this year's scout camp and see if anything came from budget. If so, you may be able to edit the source of that funding to use up the "other" account. That would be the only "legal" (if sneaky) way to transfer funds to budget.

russellhltn wrote:That would be the only "legal" (if sneaky) way to transfer funds to budget.

I don't consider it sneaky at all in your exact example. On many occasions, we have had the annual fund raiser AFTER the first camp fees were due. We often covered it with budget to keep from running the other account negative and then reallocated the expense when the "other account" is populated. Or perhaps I misunderstood that this was not acceptable. We have never had a audit exception or a stake instruction that this is not an acceptable practice.

Now, reallocating expenses that are not related to camp would be a sneaky way to add the money into budget (in my opinion). Under the new program, there is still a high adventure and ESY on alternating years so I would recommending using it for that. It is not a "camp fund" it is an "Authorized Member-financed activities" fund.

davesudweeks wrote:

russellhltn wrote:That would be the only "legal" (if sneaky) way to transfer funds to budget.

I don't consider it sneaky at all in your exact example.

Agreed. That isn't sneaky at all. It's the best appropriate way to comply with all AMFA policies (i.e. that you never allow a AMFA sub-account to be negative and you always spend the AMFA funds on the purpose they were provided for).

davesudweeks wrote:Under the new program, there is still a high adventure and ESY on alternating years so I would recommending using it for that. It is not a "camp fund" it is an "Authorized Member-financed activities" fund.

I'm not so sure I agree with that part. All AMFA funds are not interchangeable. They should all be a sub-category of AMFA with a name that gives the purpose. There is an audit question that asks whether funds were spend for that purpose and it even shows the auditor the expenses from each sub-category for them to review.

However, having said that, I don't see any problem with using something that's currently named AMFA:Scout Camp for next year's young men's camp (or for FSY expenses for young men) since the later has the equivalent purpose as the former.

From The “Other” Category: (emphasis added)

Funds in the "Other" category must be designated for a future purpose and then used for that purpose. The "Other" category is divided into subcategories, and the title of the subcategory should indicate the intended purpose.

I don't know as moving "scouts" to "EFY" complies with that directive. I understand the logic of those who say it's OK since involves the same group of members, but it seems like it goes against the spirit of the rule. That's why I suggest talking with the audit committee.

russellhltn wrote:I don't know as moving "scouts" to "EFY" complies with that directive. I understand the logic of those who say it's OK since involves the same group of members, but it seems like it goes against the spirit of the rule. That's why I suggest talking with the audit committee.

I wouldn't argue against talking to the audit committee. However, it's should never be "scouts", it should be "Scout Camp" or something similar. Or in terms of Handbook 2 section 13.6.8, the "one annual camp" for Young Men. From my understanding, FSY will be the "one annual camp" on alternating years going forward. The help center says, "Funds in the 'Other' category must be designated for a future purpose and then used for that purpose". I see the purpose as remaining the same just under a new activity program.

But, of course, the bishop, stake president and audit committee are the ones who have to agree with that position to do it. Fortunately, I've been able to complete zero out all of our camp funds this year so I don't actually have to worry about that.

For years, we have called the accounts in our ward: "Other: YM Camp" and "Other: YW Camp" and that is what we use them for. We don't slide the funds around. They might be used for a BSA scout camp. They might be used for a high adventure float trip down the river. They might be used for a girls camp at a rented facility. But the Other: YM Camp funds are used only by the YM and the Other: YW Camp funds are only used by the YW.

I believe that sending funds to CHQ just because a ward happened to label them "Boy Scout Camp" several years ago when no one could anticipate the church would exit scouting is not in keeping with the spirit of the Other account when the church has instituted another "camp" to take its place. But, yes, any questions should be answered by the bishop, stake president, and stake audit committee.

Provisions to fund the week long camp for YM & YW (and primary age day camp) have not changed in the General Handbook of Instructions. Units may still hold fundraisers if the ward budget and individual families cannot cover the expenses. Carryovers should be small amounts. I've dealt with wards that were raising funds (flag programs) when they had enough funds to last several years. HQ will get involved if they see excessive amounts not being spent.

If the donations of the funds were "intended" to support a Scouting program (such as from a Scout Dinner & Auction), then it would seem to be a requirement for those funds to be "used as intended" - which would be to get them into the hands of the scouts (if the troop rolled over into a "community troop") or to return the funds to the donor, as the church no longer "intends" to use those funds for Scouting.

In our case, it doesn't involve the same group of members. Many of the YM are not continuing in scouting. It wouldn't seem appropriate to turn those funds - raised specifically to pay for Scouts through the Scout Dinner & Auction - over to the YM. The donations were made to encourage scouting, and I can imagine several of our big donors not being pleased with the money just being slid into the YM account, instead.

russellhltn wrote:From The “Other” Category: (emphasis added)

Funds in the "Other" category must be designated for a future purpose and then used for that purpose. The "Other" category is divided into subcategories, and the title of the subcategory should indicate the intended purpose.

I don't know as moving "scouts" to "EFY" complies with that directive. I understand the logic of those who say it's OK since involves the same group of members, but it seems like it goes against the spirit of the rule. That's why I suggest talking with the audit committee.

Other:Authorized Member Funded Activities categories (accounts) are pass-through categories that must be designated for a specific purpose. More information about the details of these Other:AMFA categories can be found in the Help article "The "Other" Category".

Stephenmichaelcook wrote:If the donations of the funds were "intended" to support a Scouting program (such as from a Scout Dinner & Auction), then it would seem to be a requirement for those funds to be "used as intended" - which would be to get them into the hands of the scouts (if the troop rolled over into a "community troop") or to return the funds to the donor, as the church no longer "intends" to use those funds for Scouting.

A Scout Dinner and Auction appears to be a fund-raiser. From Handbook 2, 13.6.8, Fund-Raising Activities, it states "a stake president or bishop may authorize one group fund-raising activity each year. Such an activity may be held to raise funds for the following purposes only:

1. To help pay the cost of one annual camp or similar activity as outlined in 13.2.8.
2. To help purchase equipment that the unit needs for annual camps as outlined in 13.2.9."

Whether or not the fund-raiser was handled in accordance with the guidelines in Handbook 2, 13.6.8, is not the topic of this thread but rather the disposition of those funds. However, if the intent of the fund-raiser was for Scouting in general then there is a problem as church units may not engage in fund-raising outside the direction provided in the Handbooks. We will assume the intent of the fund-raiser was as the Handbook guidance allows in 13.6.8, 13.2.8, and 13.2.9.

Since the only two uses of fund-raisers can be for the one annual summer camp or for summer camp equipment then the use of those funds must be used for those purposes, returned to the donors, or the excess sent to the Corporation of the President as described in the Help article above.

The funds did not and do not belong to the BSA but to the church and should not have been or be intended for the Scouting program but rather the one annual camp or the camp equipment used in the YM program that used the BSA program to support the activity of that unit YM program.

So let's go back to my first assumption - the Scout Dinner and Auction was a fund-raiser conducted properly in accordance with church direction provided in the Handbook. Is that a valid assumption? If not, then the funds from that fund-raiser should never have passed into or through the church finance system. To determine what to do with those funds then should be addressed to the church finance department by contacting the Global Service Center (GSC).

Stephenmichaelcook wrote:It wouldn't seem appropriate to turn those funds - raised specifically to pay for Scouts through the Scout Dinner & Auction - over to the YM.

That is correct in that the funds do not belong to anyone except the donors. Those funds can, however, be used for the intended purpose of the one annual camp or camp equipment and for no other purpose. The camp and camp equipment does not have to be for a BSA sponsored camp. The YM program may continue to use an annual camp as part of the YM program under the new programs for youth.

Stephenmichaelcook wrote:The donations were made to encourage scouting...

If that was the purpose of the donations then the funds were improperly collected since the only proper purpose for a fund-raiser is as outlined in Handbook 2 as described above.