Upgrade PC from Win 7 to Win 10

I'm a new FHC director at the San Jose CA FHC. We have 11 PCs. They are Dell one-piece PCs (the PC is contained within the monitor housing). 7 of these are still within warranty and run Windows 10. Four of them are older, and are running Win 7. I know that Win 7 will go out of extended support in Jan 2020, and so there will be no further security updates, etc. I am concerned that it will be unsafe to continue to operate those PCs in the FHC after this time. Here's some further information:

[*] 2 of these PCs have the same Windows license number of the form 00371-OEM-xxxxxxx-xxxxx. The other 2 have the license of the form 55041-011-xxxxxxx-xxyyy where yyy is 084 on one PC and 328 on the other and OEM does not appear.

[*] Earlier this year, our son-in-law sold me his used laptop which he had purchased from his work. The IT department had freshly reinstalled the OEM-installed Win 7 OS onto it. Since all of my other PCs are running Win 10, I checked to see if there was still a way to upgrade the OS to Win 10 without purchasing a new copy, as we had done to our other PCs in 2016. Following instructions in a ZDNet article, I successfully upgraded that PC to Win 10, using the Microsoft servers, and receiving a valid license for Win 10 from Microsoft.

Does the church have a way to upgrade these older Win 7 PCs to Win 10? If so, what is the process? If not, would I be ok to use the process from the ZDNet article on these FHC computers?

Have you discussed this with your Stake Technology Specialist?
Have you called Family History Center Support?
Have you recently received a FHC equipment inventory request from FHC Support?

dtlindsa wrote:Does the church have a way to upgrade these older Win 7 PCs to Win 10? If so, what is the process? If not, would I be ok to use the process from the ZDNet article on these FHC computers?

None that I'm aware of, but I wouldn't be surprised if something comes out at the end of December. (Like it did with the clerk machines just a few weeks before the free Win10 upgrade offer expired.)

It's possible the machines will be replaced. Then again, it's also possible that depending on the usage stats reported by the machines, you'll just be asked to shut them down. (The number of computers you get is based on usage reports.) Which does raise the question - were the Win10 machines supposed to be replacement for the Win7 and someone "illegally" expanded the computer count?

Very good point. When I was the STS and my wife was the FHC director, each time we received new computers from the FHC Support office, we were firmly told that they were replacements for the old computers, and were not to be used to increase the number of computers in the FHC. Older computers need to be rotated out, and the number of Windows 10 licenses purchased for your FHC is fixed.

If your older computers are capable of running Windows 10 without a performance degradation, FHC Support will instruct you to complete a computer hardware/software request form, and have your stake president sign it. When FHC Support receives the form, they will ship a Windows 10 image to you for installation.

The mix of Win7/Win10 strikes me as a bit odd unless the stake bought more machines, centers merged, or usage suddenly shot up.

In my case, when a "machine refresh" came, ALL the machines were replaced with identical units.

I didn't start by discussing this with our STS, as the FHC computers have been managed by a long-time staff member for years, so I believe the STS doesn't know anything about them. I also understood that policies are different for the FHC computers than for the clerk computers. So I thought the STS might not be familiar with FHC computer policy.

When I have called FHC Support (which I have tried once or twice), I seem to get a senior sister missionary, who then tries to guess whom to forward my question to. Maybe I don't know the right magic words to use to speak with someone knowledgeable, or maybe I'm using the wrong phone number.

I haven't seen a FHC equipment inventory request yet. Do they come periodically?

I notice by reading the articles here that there is a lot of depth in dealing with FHC computer issues, so I thought one of you might know the answer right off .

Further reviewing my notes from the previous director, I notice that he said that the 7 Win 10 PCs arrived late in 2018. He said they had no notice that they were coming -- they just arrived in the FHC. Apparently they had been delivered by the FM group. That suggests that the director did not receive any instructions on what they were to replace. I'll need to ask the former director some more questions.

I've been shown some older PCs -- which have separate monitors, and the system box mounted behind the monitor -- which I believe were decommissioned when these Win 10 PCs arrived. As we are discussing, it is vaguely in my mind that I was told about someone donating money some years back to purchase additional computers for the center, which were purchased through the church process. Perhaps those donated computers were the oldest, and therefore replaced first by the Win 10 PCs, leaving some of the "newer" Win 7 PCs still in the center.

Which leaves me wondering if the Win 7 PCs now represent donated PCs, and so the FHC needs to upgrade the OS with our own resources, and FHC Support won't help with it.

I'll ask the former director some more questions. It might also be helpful if I could find out what the instructions were for the new Win 10 PCs. There must be some department which looks at usage, etc. to decide how many PCs to send, orders them, and sends the instructions to the director on what to do. Perhaps they would be able to give me more direction, like what to do about the Win 7 PCs. Any idea what this department is called, and how I would contact them?

dtlindsa wrote:When I have called FHC Support (which I have tried once or twice), I seem to get a senior sister missionary, who then tries to guess whom to forward my question to.

At least they didn't try to make up answers. That's an improvement over some of my conversations many years ago. It's as if they were under instruction to minimize the number of calls referred to the actual staff.

dtlindsa wrote:Further reviewing my notes from the previous director, I notice that he said that the 7 Win 10 PCs arrived late in 2018. He said they had no notice that they were coming -- they just arrived in the FHC. Apparently they had been delivered by the FM group.

Yup. That's what happens. I'm trying to remember.

Of course there can be complications. I'm in "Springfield" stake, and next door is "Springfield West" stake. FM has managed to confuse deliveries in the past. And then there's the time that the "Riverside" FHC managed to "steal" our printer. UPS delivered the printer to the FM office, but dropped it off a the FHC (perhaps either because FM was closed or out of confusion). That FHC thought the printer was for them and set it up and put it to use. We were stuck with an out of date model for a whole replacement cycle.

I can't say what happens to machines that are bought with donations. It's possible they're to be discarded with the rest and you try to buy new machines. I'd think you'd be off the "church standard" if you try to upgrade them on your own.

Looking for some details turned up this email from myself to the FHC group back on July 2015:

===================================

{complaint about church communication removed}

While the new operations guide makes it clear that we're now on a 5-year replacement plan, the directive that new computer are to replace ALL existing can only be found by word-of-mouth. I've been unable to find any such document or official communication. Just comments relayed via FM or church service missionary working the support desk. Supposedly an email is sent when the computers ship, but none happened in this case. The FHC email is set to up forward anything to me, so it's not a case of the director failing forward something.

One particular missionary I talked to suggested I was lucky - usually way this happens is that FM just takes all the computers and leaves the new ones.

What I've been told is that if the old computers continue to show up in the inventory, a nastygram will be forthcoming. But taking them off inventory is likely to remove portal access on those machines. (As well as lowering the usage stats since their use won't be monitored.) So I don't know as that would be a good idea.

I was able to get a temporary "stay of execution" for our microfilm scanner computer. There's no way to stick the SCSI card into these new All-in-ones. (Which by the way are nice machines. Brand-new 23". It really makes the computer area nice and clean.)

While I haven't been able to get a formula, the numbers is based on monthly reports and the usage pattern recorded by the tracking software. (I'd suspect the latter is given more weight.)

It is possible to buy additional machines. I haven't called FS to find out the price list. But it does say that budget funds can't be used. Which I guess leaves monetary donations. (FHCs are not to accept donations of equipment.)

===================================

In our case, we went from 8 machines (plus microfilm scanner) to 6.

Yes, there is a difference between FamilySearch Support and Family History Center Support, but I believe you have to call the FamilySearch Support number and ask them to connect you to Family History Center Support. It's been several years, but that is what I had to do in the past.

During the ten years or so that I was the STS and my wife was the stake FHC director, we made many such phone calls, and we received several computers. (It was fun when UPS dropped off ten or twenty boxes on my doorstep, and I had to figure out how to get all that equipment into my Prius.)

During the early years, we only received "cascaded" computers from various offices in the SLC area. Some had the FHC image installed on them, and some did not. Over the years, I had to request several FHC computer images on DVD to ensure that all our computers were running the latest version of Windows as well as the latest version of the standard FHC applications. At a certain point, "cascaded" computers were no longer shipped. Rather, new computers and printers were shipped. The early computers were Small Form Factor Dell computers, which were attached to the back of large monitors. These were gradually replaced with All-in-One computers.

Every month, the FHC directors had to submit a report to the Family History Department, documenting how many patrons used the FHC, how many computers were used, how many hours per week (or month) the FHC was open, etc. Every year or two, the FHC directors received a request for computer and printer inventory. All this information was used to justify how many computers and printers were needed, and to determine the number of new computers that would be shipped.

Each computer shipment came with specific instructions on how to set up the software, and how to wipe the hard drives of the old computers and turn them over to the FM for recycling. Every FHC computer had to have specific management software installed. In addition to allowing the computers to connect to "Ancestry Institution" and other pay sites, the management software helped to automate the inventory and usage reporting. So it is possible that FHC directors may no longer need to submit reports.

However, if you have any computers in your FHC that are not running the church-provided management software, it is very possible that the Temple and Family History Department may not know how many computers you have, and how many of your computers require software upgrades or total replacement.

dtlindsa wrote:Earlier this year, our son-in-law sold me his used laptop which he had purchased from his work. The IT department had freshly reinstalled the OEM-installed Win 7 OS onto it. Since all of my other PCs are running Win 10, I checked to see if there was still a way to upgrade the OS to Win 10 without purchasing a new copy, as we had done to our other PCs in 2016. Following instructions in a ZDNet article, I successfully upgraded that PC to Win 10, using the Microsoft servers, and receiving a valid license for Win 10 from Microsoft.

If the laptop had been upgraded to Windows 10 using a Windows Enterprise license, I am not sure if that upgrade was communicated to Microsoft. I know that upgrades from Windows 7 and 8 to 10 for home users were reported to Microsoft so that we could (if and when necessary) wipe our hard drives and install a fresh copy of Windows 10 without having to go through the upgrade process again. In fact, immediately after I upgraded my laptop from Windows 7 to 10, I wiped the hard drive and performed a new Windows 10 installation just to prove it would work.

russellhltn wrote:It's as if they were under instruction to minimize the number of calls referred to the actual staff.

It's probably not officially this way but it's more or less true. It seems there's not very many "actual staff" for FHC support and they don't man the phones, probably because most calls are from non-techie folks whose questions can be easily answered by missionaries armed with a little technical training and a knowledge database, and don't require the experience or technical savvy of an employee. Personally I think it's a good way to be wise with the tithing $, although it can make it hard sometimes to get deeper technical support.

drepouille wrote:there is a difference between FamilySearch Support and Family History Center Support, but I believe you have to call the FamilySearch Support number and ask them to connect you to Family History Center Support.

Also true; I think they used to have an extension up until recently that went right to their voice mailbox, but it seems it was decided that it would be better if live missionaries answered.

dtlindsa wrote:Further reviewing my notes from the previous director, I notice that he said that the 7 Win 10 PCs arrived late in 2018. He said they had no notice that they were coming -- they just arrived in the FHC. Apparently they had been delivered by the FM group.

russellhltn wrote:Supposedly an email is sent when the computers ship, but none happened in this case.

Yeah most equipment seems to come through the FM who are typically instructed to remove the old stuff and set up the new, unless the stake has told them otherwise. The FM and maybe even the Stake Technology Specialist get an email on shipment, but that doesn't mean they always forward the info on. The main exception seems to be when one-off replacements of individual computers or toner cartridges are sent to the center director, who then receives the email notification.

dtlindsa wrote:I can't say what happens to machines that are bought with donations. It's possible they're to be discarded with the rest and you try to buy new machines.

To be fair I don't think the employees know of any distinctions on this either. It's very likely that the computers may simply be treated the same as the rest as far as the overall lifecycle process. And I've heard of many cases where the stake leadership was told they could do what they wanted with the old computers, with the caveat of course that they would not be one-off replaced again should they break down. I think SL just likes to have the tech specialist check in first before keeping things.

drepouille wrote:the management software helped to automate the inventory and usage reporting. So it is possible that FHC directors may no longer need to submit reports.

They still do, but I believe Salt Lake looks at both; the computer monitoring shows the computer usage, while the reports show how many actual FH-related visits there were. It's important especially since many stakes let e.g. missionaries or employment specialists and their groups use the computers, for things besides family history. It probably also helps to equalize the computer-use reporting a little between stakes that opt to keep old computers, and those that recycle them.


Whew, long tangent ramble over. But, to try to answer the original question,

dtlindsa wrote:Does the church have a way to upgrade these older Win 7 PCs to Win 10? If so, what is the process?

By using the Windows 10 image in the FHC Application Finder. They use a special volume activation system, so it is likely that other methods of upgrading to/activating Win10 won't work, and certainly aren't supported. No forms need to be sent in or anything like that nowdays, but under the image link in the App Finder it does specify a very specific list of models that can be upgraded. Any other models in the center were likely held over locally from a previous replacement cycle and are not supported (such as is the case with any XP machines still out there), or will be replaced shortly (because they've been sending out Win10 machines for quite a while now) and can't be upgraded.

The Sophos of the familysearch.org/remote says its incompatible when I try to install it on a FHC Windows 10 computer. The version in the FHC Application Finder does install, but disappears as soon as it does an app upgrade (not definition upgrade). Looks like I will need to use Windows Defender until a good Windows 10 Sophos image for the FHC is available for download.

jsfriedman wrote:The Sophos of the familysearch.org/remote says its incompatible when I try to install it on a FHC Windows 10 computer. The version in the FHC Application Finder does install, but disappears as soon as it does an app upgrade (not definition upgrade). Looks like I will need to use Windows Defender until a good Windows 10 Sophos image for the FHC is available for download.

Yes it seems there's a new edition being automatically distributed to everyone via Tivoli / BigFix, but the web links still point to the old version at the moment. Shouldn't need to download anything manually though, as long as all the other software is working properly; the install should usually be automatic.

Just talked with someone at FHC support who told me that official FHC Windows 7 Enterprise installations will continue to be supported for another three years, to 2022, via their contract with Microsoft. So, no problem. I am so happy.

There is a W10 updater and software to create a self installing USB to make the upgrade happen available to the STS. I had one unit that did not automatically update to W10 (all others did), so I tried the forced update method. Using a highly technical term, it put the machine into Pet Rock mode, and it had to be replaced with a new one.